The Perfect Med School :)

[jimi]

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Since there are so many different personalities out there I think it would be interesting to hear what each of you thinks is the perfect med school (it also kills time as we wait by the mailbox!)

So I'll start, my perfect med school would have:

UCSF's new curriculum
Harvard's location
Hopkin's patient population and hospital
Yale's grading system
Cornell's money (i.e. facilities)
UCLA's diversity (among students)
Vanderbilt's happy students
UCI's admissions people

geez, I wish such a school existed. I would have applied early action!

Looking forward to hear about your guys' ideas.

 

[Mustafa]

C'mon man, loosin' up a bit in your "perfect med school;" most of us wish we had half a chance at any of the schools you listed...I mean no doubt I feel for you in having to wait for the mailbox, but it could be a lot worse

Besides, isn't UCSF's "new" curriculum just that--NEW? How awesome could it be when it hasn't even been put in practice? Also solid teaching hospitals and diverse patient population are found in nearly every school you listed.

Please remember the people who haven't been so fortunate.

 

[Dr JPH]

My perfect medical school.

A school that allows me to pursue interests outside of studying that will allow me to become a better person, thus making me into a better physician.

A school that realizes the changing face of medicine and does what it can to enhance the ability of its graduates to succeed in the world after graduation.

A school that will accept a group of applicants who are dedicated students who want to become the best physicians that they can be.

Well, that's about it.



------------------
Joshua Paul Hazelton, CNA, EMT-B
[email protected]
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (2002)
"D.O. Wannabe"

 

[jimi]

JPHazelton:

I just wanted to say your post was actually very inspiring. I would love to be in a med school class with you!!!

Mustafa, I'm really sorry if I hit a nerve. I was just talking about fantasy schools. Trust me, it's not like I'm getting into all of these schools.

Oh, and the UCSF thing...I just got a really good impression of it from their on-line descriptions. I think it would be exciting to be a part of it (but if it makes you feel better they have completely ignored me).

Anyway, it's still early in the process as another post had mentioned. So I'm sure you are going to be very happy!

Good luck and I'm sorry if I upset anyone with my silly post!!

 

[Dr JPH]

jimi:

I thank you for your kind comment!

These boards are open to free discussion and I am a firm believer that they should be censored as little as possible.

Don't worry about offending people with your posts.

If those attributes make up YOUR perfect medical school, then whatever medical school you attend, MAKE that the best school for you.

Perfection can never be achieved. The struggle for perfection draws the best qualities from man.

Things can always get better. But, don't let that discourage you if you have not reached the next level...because things can always be worse...

Keep positive. Hope to read more of your posts in the future, jimi.

Best of luck to you!

------------------
Joshua Paul Hazelton, CNA, EMT-B
[email protected]
University of the Sciences in Philadelphia (2002)
"D.O. Wannabe"

[This message has been edited by JPHazelton (edited 01-25-2001).]

 

[mjs419]

Just curious,
Why Boston as the perfect location?

 

[jimi]

Originally posted by mjs419:
Just curious,
Why Boston as the perfect location?

Family, friends, history...etc. In other words, personal reasons.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Just a comment about the UCSF curriculum..it's still in the tentative stages right now, and when I went to interview there in mid December, we all had lunch with a student who was an integral part of the curriculum committee. She said that as of then they didn't have enough faculty to teach all the small groups, and that they would get third and fourth years to teach them instead. And, in order to decrease class time, the cadavers would be predissected for gross anatomy.
So, I wouldn't count UCSF as part of my dream school, just because of this feeling that I'd be a "guinea pig" and that I wouldn't have faculty teaching me.

My dream school?
Columbia's faculty, curriculum and students with the facilities and location of Cornell

 

[jimi]

caffeinegirl:

Thanx for the update on UCSF's curriculum. I had no idea about the faculty shortage!

But about anatomy...I heard they are prosects (we disect only a part at a time depending on what we are studying at the time) not "predissected". Are you sure?

I'd be very interested in finding out the difference.

Although, I must say your post does in a little tiny way make me happy since they have not gotten back to me about a decision on my file.

(Cornell does have a very nice location! are you a local New Yorker? My first impression of New York around Penn station where some lady tried to run me down for taking her cab was not so good. I had no idea you have to stand in line for a cab!!! But when I got to upper east side, I was amazed!!! It's a bit claustrophobic but I must admit it does have a certain appeal.)

 

[caffeinegirl]

Hi Jimi
believe you me, I wasn't that impressed with UCSF's curriculum...at least that it wasn't that established and that they still didn't have a clear idea of what they wanted. The student (she's taking her third year off to work exclusively on the curriculum) said that the cadavers would be pre-dissected, as in you wouldn't do any dissections, and would only look at the parts that were relevant that day.
I'm from upstate NY, and will definitely be going to NYC next year (right now it looks like Mount Sinai, but I'm still waiting on Cornell and Columbia). I can't wait! I'm itching to get away from Smalltown, USA.
NYC is quite crowded, but there's no shortage of things to do. And yes, getting a cab can be quite a drag, especially at Port Authority or Penn Station (I waited for an hour once!!). Though I do prefer the subway...

 

[Mustafa]

No problemo, jimi thing

 

[tr]

I don't think prosection is such a bad thing.

At my school, there are *no* prosected cadavers; we're pretty much handed a scalpel and told to go dig. Needless to say we never find all the structures we're supposed to; usually we muck around until we're tired of making a mess, then pack up and go home. The whole process is largely an exercise in futility. What wouldn't I give for a good prosection!!

 

[numinous]

caffeinegirl-
let's hear it for upstate! I am from Rhinebeck (i hope no stalkers are prowling) and am planning to go to the city for med school. Where else did you look? Not having done a tremendous amount of research, I like many, but have been eyeing SUNY Brooklyn for money reasons. Did you check it out? How would you compare Cornell, Columbia, Mt Sinai and NYU?

 

[caffeinegirl]

numinous
WooHoo! Upstate in da house! I live near Syracuse

I applied to all the schools in the City except NYMC. I interviewed last semester, and right now I'm in Sinai and NYU, plus Stony Brook (which is closer to the city than Upstate!!). I'm having a tough time deciding about $$ vs. location. I really don't know which is better, Sinai or NYU...but I'm leaning towards Sinai.
I'm still waiting on Columbia and Cornell...cross your fingers!!
Good luck!!

 

[caffeinegirl]

numinous
About Downstate...you should ask Tim "turtleboard", because he's a med student there. I didn't have the chance to go down and visit, since I withdrew my app once I got into Stony Brook

 

[EricCSU]

Although I can see slight advantages to dissection, I am a supporter of prosection as well. For my undergrad anatomy class, our lab was prosection, while another class (students who had previously taken the class I was in and got an "A") did the dissection. The reasoning being the the time required to learn the material and dissect wasn't appropriate for one undergrad class (prosection is 5 credits, dissection is 4 lab credits, ie. 9 real hours). I think that I learned the anatomy just as well as the dissectors, given that I spent much less time in the lab than they did. A lot of my classmates would actually go to myself and my lab partner for questions when they couldn't find a TA.

Also, my top school is MSUCHM, which uses a prosection lab. I think that the reduction in time spent in the lab can go a long way to learning other subjects.

Eric

 

[Annihilator]

Sorry to dredge up a topic from one month ago, but I definitely wanted to put in my two cents worth. FYI, I'm a current MS1 at UCSF.

UCSF student diversity (everyone has an awesome story)
UCSF student happiness
UCSF current curriculum (not new one discussed here)
UCSF's grading system (Pass/Fail)
UCSF location but
UCSD weather
U Kansas' in-state prices (like, almost free)
Hopkin's housing rents (baltimore is cheap as hell, of course, minus the crime)

So I might be a little biased, but I have few complaints at UCSF. As for the new curriculum, the assertion that it is untried and untested is worth merit. However, ragging on prosection and predissection is not warranted... There are a number of people in our class who do not like dissecting for just as many different reasons. I love the experience of dissecting, _but_, there are many occasions when I wish our instructors would just dissect for us and show us what we are supposed to see. It is very difficult to dissect (if you've never dissected that region before) because you don't know what to expect, how careful you need to be, etc. It can be frustratingly slow. That's my major complaint with dissection. But on the other hand, I don't think any med student should be without doing at least a partial dissection. I would probably love a curriculum that incorporated both (of course, that would be impossible because there wouldn't be enough instructors to go around).

Just my two cents.

 

[red fox]

Annihilator,

I've been accepted to UCSF, and it's my top choice, but I am concerned about the new curriculum. Is it such a radical change from the existing curriculum that we're all going to be floundering? What's the feeling among current students regarding the change? Is the rest of UCSF worth being a guinea pig for a few years?

Thanks in advance for your candor.

 

[Annihilator]

Originally posted by red fox:
I've been accepted to UCSF, and it's my top choice, but I am concerned about the new curriculum. Is it such a radical change from the existing curriculum that we're all going to be floundering? What's the feeling among current students regarding the change? Is the rest of UCSF worth being a guinea pig for a few years?

Thanks in advance for your candor.

That's a great question. I am actively involved in the new curriculum process as a technical advisor for the online ecurriculum.

Truthfully, if I were entering with the new curriculum's first year, I would be a little worried and hesitant about being the guinea pigs. But then again, I don't think I could pass up UCSF SOM, new curriculum and all.

Yes it's untried, but it can't be worse than the current curriculum, otherwise the SOM would never have embarked on its mission.

Of course, some of those things (like the pre-dissected Anatomy Lab) come with their disadvantages, there are many disadvantages to the current curriculum (but no one is complaining). For example, the current curriculum is separated by discipline and that has it's own problems. We were learning cardiovascular physiology and had to gloss over the pharmacology and immunology associated with the CV because we don't learn those until next year. And by the time we get to that stuff next year, we'll probably have forgotten much of the material... From a purely academic perspective, learning by discipline is probably the best way to get a complete picture of the systems. However, from a clinical perspective, integrating the systems and seeing how they interact will make the better doctor.

Yes, there may be a few awkward moments because it is the first live run-through for the faculty. But there are a number of reasons I'd still attend UCSF:

1) The faculty here are simply amazing and dynamic in their teaching style. Even if there may be logistical or administrative bugs, the core academic curriculum will still be taught effectively. Even now (this year's curriculum), we give feedback constantly to the faculty about how to improve the courses (random course/instructor evaluations sent to students, ~2/month).
2) Academic concerns other than curriculum. The resources behind UCSF are still there, they haven't gone away with the new curriculum. This means things like research, clinical exposure, and the new online electronic resources.
3) Non-academic concerns. Like the city, weather, student diversity/background, extracurricular interests, and your happiness.

Personally, the third item is the most important thing to me. When I was applying, I figured that the resources of all the top schools are fairly comprable (2), and you really can't go wrong with the way the material is taught (1: PBL, traditional, new curriculum), unless you know you can't learn in a certain manner.

My advice is to assess your rankings as if you would be in the "old curriculum." Those who fear the new curriculum change will degrade medical education at UCSF are crying wolf. There would be no way a top school would try something if it would detract from academic excellence. Being actively involved in the new curriculum process, I have to say there are some awesome changes coming about for you guys.