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The "Pre-med (advisors only) black book"

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by missbonnie, Jun 27, 2002.

  1. missbonnie

    missbonnie floating

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    There was a thread about this a while ago but I can't find it due the non-working search engine. Anyway, that was the first time I heard about it but today, I saw it. I had a meeting with my pre-med advisor. This book is only meant for pre-med advisors.
    I'm not sure what's in it, but it seems like it has specific info as to how each school evaluates candidates. i.e. some schools DO use a formula and some schools really don't. SHe said she refers to the book when students receive interviews and need help in preparing for that school.

    She gave me some great advice about getting to know schools. It's "obvious" advice but I don't think alot of people do this. SHe said vising your first choice (or top choice(s)) school before hand can make a big difference, especiall if you can talk to someone on the adcoms or even the director/dean of admissions him/herself. She told me that most students have never seen the school until interview time. Just thought I'd throw that in.
    Anybody know more about this book?

    -b
     
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  3. Tweetie_bird

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    good work, Bonnie.

    I think this is what we all need to do--
    Go to our each individual adviser, and try and get info on each school and post it on here. I do know that the Univ of Wash has a certain formula, that i had a long while ago...i can't seem to remember it.

    A lot of schools use these formulae. Then, what they do AFTER the forumula is applied, is a mystery. Some school deans literally go over each application, and see if they want to still call the person for an interview.
     
  4. none

    none 1K Member

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    You can skip the UCSD advisors. I found them pretty useless.
     
  5. missbonnie

    missbonnie floating

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    I asked about Columbia & Yale, and some other schools, but she didn't really tell me anything I haven't heard already (or rather read) here on SDN.

    Columbia: Dr Frantz is very loyal to Columbia, so make sure you REALLY make it clear how much you LOVE Columbia and why. And Columbia really likes people with cool outside/med experiences/hobbies. She also said that he is a bit of an ivy snob. He interviews some of the students too.

    Yale: Yale actually goes through every app.

    The first question I asked her is if she had good relationships with alot of schools, etc and how/when she can intervene. It seemed like she could do alot if you really want to go to a certain school. Especially if you are waitlisted, she can call the Dean and tell them. My school ranks each student among the pool of current applicants and they also send the school a specific cover sheet on how they rank the students (academically, "soft" skills, etc) and what % of students got that rating. I had no idea how meticulous my pre-med committee was. Also, the students are ranked separately in 2 groups: currently in college, or out of college.
     
  6. jot

    jot

    i'll second that ucsd thing - i visited them cause i happened to be in la jolla - didn't have much to say, but maybe other schools do
     
  7. Alli Cat

    Alli Cat Flygirl

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    I saw a website for Stanford detailing their "formula."

    It consisted of these criteria:

    GPA
    MCAT V
    MCAT P
    MCAT B
    gender
    disadvantaged status
    URM status

    and a couple of others... then they assign some kind of value to each criterion and rank people. The top third get a secondary, the middle third get screened (to determine whether they get a 2o), and the bottom third get rejected right off the bat.

    I wish I could find the page... I'll keep looking.

    ~Alison, who is not applying to Stanford (fear of bottom third)
     
  8. Hero

    Hero Senior Member

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    bumpp. great thread. premeds should have access to this because not all advisors are good. In fact, many suck so badly.

    Edit: add state of residency to your formula.
     
  9. jot

    jot

    doesn't that sdn schools search thing have some wacky formula that takes into consideration gpa,mcat,state of residency? haha- i wonder how accurate taking -.023 for applying to columbia as a pennsylvanian is.
    -jot
     
  10. Explosivo

    Explosivo blah!

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    Hey missbonnie,

    I was the OP of the thread you are talking about. I actually found out what this book is but I highly doubt you can get your hands on it. Here's what I posted on the thread about the book.

    "Thanks for the web-site pocwana. I checked it out and indeed that book which I spoke about does exist. It's called the "Premedical Advisor's Reference Manual" and it is only available to pre-med advisors. Apparently you have to sign this waiver to get it:

    " I, _____________________, am a prehealth professions advisor at ____________________________ and understand that "this manual is confidential and is available exclusively to active health professions advisors." Both I and other members of my committee should feel free to use it to help advise our students, but I (we) will not place copies in libraries or otherwise make the Manual directly available to our students."

    Interesting. Gosh I wish I could get my hands on that thing. In its description it lists pre-screening for interview minimum AND maximum cutoffs and other juicy tidbits of information."

    <a href="http://forums.studentdoctor.net/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=013692" target="_blank">Link</a>

    Having been out of school now for a little bit I could really use speaking to a pre-med advisor with access to this book.
     
  11. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    I mentioned (just briefly in passing) in one of my Columbia essays that I'm working at Johns Hopkins Hospital this summer. A friend of mine at JHU told me to take that out because there's this big rivalry between Columbia and JHU. Is that true? Has anyone heard this?
     
  12. Doctora Foxy

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    Gower on medicalgold.com always posts tidbits from that book if he's asked about waitlist movement or a particular school.... :)
     
  13. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    I don't understand why someone can't just buy that book. Why can't you just give a phony name and say you're a pre-med advisor and send in a travelor's check or something? And have it mailed to a P.O. box?

    I know that's terribly dishonest and immoral... I'm just saying... it probably could be done. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="wink.gif" />
     
  14. Explosivo

    Explosivo blah!

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    I think I need to pull a "mission impossible" break in scheme at my school's pre-med office and rip off that book. :)

    I'm scheming now, mwah ha ha ha... Anybody want to join me I could use someone that can handle an M16 just in case somebody shows up and someone to drive the getaway car! :D
     
  15. missbonnie

    missbonnie floating

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    Yeah, my advisor told me about the waiver they need to sign. Although she won't show it to me (or my recs)., she reads the book /recs in front of me( not out loud of course). I think any info that I'd want/need she can basically tell me. For example, she went throught my LORs and told me which ones were real;y good, which ones didn't say much about me(cuz the prof didn't know). I have way more recs than I need so she can actually pick and choose the best for my committee letter.

    In any case, don't forget that your pre-med advisor at your undergrad collge is a great resource -- he/she most likely has relationships/"ins" with schools in the area at least and can give you valuable advice if you ask or show sincere interest.

    -b
     
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  17. geneman

    geneman The Transgenic Hobo

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    The Pre-med Office at my school used to post all of the detailed statistics (how many applied, who got in, what were their stats, etc.) on our school's students.... until, get this, a parent called the office and began complaining why her son didn't get in when he had better numbers than so-and-so.... I was thinking to myself, what are we in elementary school? :rolleyes:
     
  18. Bikini Princess

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    Explosivo: My school doesn't have this book. However, here's a great way to get it.. :p (For humor purposes only)

    Day 1. Figure out where the book is kept. It's probably just sitting on your advisor's bookshelf. If absence of the book would leave a appreciable hole, find a science book of the same color/size.

    Day 2. Most faculty keep their doors open when they are in their office. Most also keep their doors open if pop out to the nearby restroom. Print off a journal article related to the faculty's expertise, and sling an empty backpack around one shoulder.

    Wait for the professor to pop out by reading the article at the farthest line of sight to their doorway, or the restroom. With article in hand, enter their office, stuff the book in your bag. With article still in hand, exit the office & hallway slowly, thumbing through the article. Then head to a secluded copy machine. :)

    The reason you have the science article in hand is in case you bump into anyone, it makes a great excuse. (ie I just wanted to leave this current article on your desk :) )

    Remember, this post was for humorous purposes only, it does not reflect my attitudes, beliefs, or values. :)
     
  19. relatively prime

    relatively prime post happy member

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    geneman: Are you serious? His mother called in? That's pathetic. What did she think the school determined who got in where?! :rolleyes:
     
  20. hakioawa

    hakioawa Junior Member

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    Or you could just make up an institution and order one <a href="http://www.naahp.org/parmorderform.html" target="_blank">here</a>
     
  21. geneman

    geneman The Transgenic Hobo

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    </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by relatively prime:
    <strong>geneman: Are you serious? His mother called in? That's pathetic. What did she think the school determined who got in where?! :rolleyes: </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">LOL, you said mother, not me... but yes, ol' mum called in. :)
     
  22. chopsuey

    chopsuey miss independent

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    thought i'd bump this with info from my premed advisor:

    NYU - recently re-organized curriculum that includes traditional classes,
    problem based learning, and an interdisciplinary approach to much of the
    material. There seems to be a fair amount of independence in choosing and
    organizing the clinical rotations. Also, there are formal clinical
    outreach programs for volunteers: first and second year students work with
    primary care physicians and 3/4th years work in clinics. This way you can
    get exposure to patients early if you desire.

    Cornell - mostly all problem based learning and interdisciplinary
    approaches to course material. First year students get a formal
    introduction to clinical practice, but I don't have any details on how it
    is done.
     
  23. conure

    conure Master Distiller

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    I just took the name of the book and searched google and here it is.

    http://www.naahp.org/parmorderform.html

    it is published by a professional organization for advisors. I'm sure some one could get a copy if we really tried. furthermore. how many times have you asked if your competitive only to get that hmm well thats a difficult questions, blah blah blah. Well here it is are you are aren't you.

    Someones gotta get this thing.
     
  24. Intrepidation

    Intrepidation I wear PASG underwear

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    Maybe we should ask for thesmokingun.com's help. They always seem to dig up dirt on everything. If only we had this book for our use.

    *evil grin*
     
  25. Gradient Echo

    Gradient Echo Banned
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    I dont know of any rivalry between the institutions, but then again I havent been here very long either. Its hard to imagine though a rivalry between 2 places that are in cities some 4-5 hours apart.

    If anything, I would imagine there might be rivalries between intra-city schools (e.g. Hopkins vs Univ of Maryland, or Cornell v Columbia)
     

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