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orthoauthor

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Could anyone give me some details on what their day to day is really like for an ortho residence (I know your experience is program specific, just want to get as many perspectives as possible)? What kind of cases do you see most often? What is the relationship like with your co-residents? What is a normal day for you? Boring, stressful, competitive, fun?

Also, any funny stories or crazy things you've seen wrapped around a bracket? haha

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Don't go ortho. I am an orthodontist that's been practicing almost 6 years now. I am extremely poor. :smuggrin:
 
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Don't go ortho. I am an orthodontist that's been practicing almost 6 years now. I am extremely poor. :smuggrin:
If you’re so poor being an orthodontist, why don’t you stop practicing orthodontics and start practicing general dentistry again?
 
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If you’re so poor being an orthodontist, why don’t you stop practicing orthodontics and start practicing general dentistry again?

He would be even poorer? Obviously orthodontists make pretty good money.

However it can cost almost 800k in tuition to attain. (500k dental school, add in a whopping 300k for ortho residency) along with accruing interest. Unless you get into one of the few cheap residency’s that is a lot of commitment.
 
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He would be even poorer? Obviously orthodontists make pretty good money.

However it can cost almost 800k in tuition to attain. (500k dental school, add in a whopping 300k for ortho residency) along with accruing interest. Unless you get into one of the few cheap residency’s that is a lot of commitment.

I don’t understand the logics behind becoming an orthodontist with an 500-800k price tag. With that much debt how do you get ahead? You will end up slaving away your years working for someone else. No bank will lend you any money to set up your own shop. Sure you can make good money as an orthodontist but competition is fierce these days and you’ll have to really work for it.
 
I don’t understand the logics behind becoming an orthodontist with an 500-800k price tag. With that much debt how do you get ahead? You will end up slaving away your years working for someone else. No bank will lend you any money to set up your own shop. Sure you can make good money as an orthodontist but competition is fierce these days and you’ll have to really work for it.
These days, would you say orthodontists who own their own offices always make more than an orthodontist who works for a corp? (getting at least a base salary of $1000-1500 a day)
 
The simple interest on 800k orthodontics debt is about 52k a year. Not even factoring compound interest that is probably accruing every year after residency.

Interest accrues very fast for example, I took out 65k my first year and about 70k my second, that’s about 135k. Right now I Owe 145k and it’s been barely two years and I’ve already accrued 10k on my loans on an amount a fraction of the size of 800k.

You better be making at least 300k a year to even have a chance of paying that off In your lifetime(after taxes you get like 195k cause taxed at a high bracket not adding in all the other expenses you may have). Or you can become the million dollar orthodontist who is planning to pay something close to a 450k tax bomb after we foot the other 700k in taxes.
 
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Could anyone give me some details on what their day to day is really like for an ortho residence (I know your experience is program specific, just want to get as many perspectives as possible)? What kind of cases do you see most often? What is the relationship like with your co-residents? What is a normal day for you? Boring, stressful, competitive, fun?

Also, any funny stories or crazy things you've seen wrapped around a bracket? haha

To actually answer your question, I'm loving residency. It's a lot more relaxed than dental school, and your learning is more controlled by you - you'll get out what you put in. I see a ton of different cases, I've started around 60 in 9 months. They vary from easy class Is, a bit of IIs and IIIs, open bites, surgical, phase I, cleft/craniofacial defects, etc. I would say the majority for me have been class Is, class IIIs, and phase I - maybe due to that patient base in my program's area. I have at least 2 cases of each type and will continue taking new cases for a few more months, so I should get around 75-80 starts in total before gaining around 100-120 transfer cases. Overall, I think I'm getting great experience and spend at least 6 hours seeing patients Monday-Friday. My coresidents are great, and we hang out regularly. A normal day is usually a couple hours of classes/seminars/case presentations and the previously mentioned clinic time. I rarely do work at home besides readings for my own learning. Overall, stress is minimal compared to dental school, competition is nonexistent, and I find it fun. There's a lot that depends on what you want, but I got a pretty ideal situation for me. My patients all brush when they come in, so I never am pulling anything out of brackets thankfully. Good luck!
 
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I don’t understand the logics behind becoming an orthodontist with an 500-800k price tag. With that much debt how do you get ahead? You will end up slaving away your years working for someone else. No bank will lend you any money to set up your own shop. Sure you can make good money as an orthodontist but competition is fierce these days and you’ll have to really work for it.

Because they like what they do.
 
The simple interest on 800k orthodontics debt is about 52k a year. Not even factoring compound interest that is probably accruing every year after residency.

Interest accrues very fast for example, I took out 65k my first year and about 70k my second, that’s about 135k. Right now I Owe 145k and it’s been barely two years and I’ve already accrued 10k on my loans on an amount a fraction of the size of 800k.

You better be making at least 300k a year to even have a chance of paying that off In your lifetime(after taxes you get like 195k cause taxed at a high bracket not adding in all the other expenses you may have). Or you can become the million dollar orthodontist who is planning to pay something close to a 450k tax bomb after we foot the other 700k in taxes.

This is a man who understands the game. You the real MVP.
 
These days, would you say orthodontists who own their own offices always make more than an orthodontist who works for a corp? (getting at least a base salary of $1000-1500 a day)

Prior to Corp takeover and aligners (which allowed GP easy access to ortho tx) .... orthos who owned their own offices had the golden ticket.
Now .... depends on alot of variables. If you practice where other orthos do not want to practice and with fewer Corps ..... you can do very well with your own practice. If you choose urban, saturated areas ... then follow @charlestweed 's example. Be diversified and accommodating to what the current ortho market will give you. Own a small, low overhead practice. Work for a pedo or GP. Work for the Corps 1 or 2 days. Plenty of opportunity. Just have to work for it .... and plan on working fri-sat. You can also make bank working for Corp only. The ortho I replaced in Corp was working SIX days a week. For many years. The per diem is average for an ortho, but the bonuses can really escalate. I know for a fact that this particular ortho was the highest producting ortho in this particular Corp. His take home was on par with most of my paychecks from my private practice days. The difference is that he worked like a dog. 6 days a week. I worked 4 days: mon-thurs and made the same or more .... again ... during my heyday. The other variable is that the Corp has to be BUSY. If you are not starting new patients .... you are not making bonus money.
Every situation is different.

Could anyone give me some details on what their day to day is really like for an ortho residence (I know your experience is program specific, just want to get as many perspectives as possible)? What kind of cases do you see most often? What is the relationship like with your co-residents? What is a normal day for you? Boring, stressful, competitive, fun?

Also, any funny stories or crazy things you've seen wrapped around a bracket? haha

Not sure how relevant my response will be since I graduated from ortho residency 26 years ago. But here goes. For myself .... dental school was just an extension of undergrad. Yes .. it was different, but you were one student in a class of 50-100. My class was 50-56 students. In ortho residency .... I was one of four residents. Just four. With four .... there is nowhere to hide. 4 residents and an instructor. Everything you do is evaluated on a more specific level. Ortho residency was on a different level than DS. Also .... you are now a DOCTOR .... instead of a student.
As for cases. I attended a stipend paying hospital program (I know ... I was lucky). Saw plenty of patients with craniofacial issues. Plenty of cleft-palate pts. Plenty of patients period. Again ... with only 4 residents .... the attending/instructor to student ratio was excellent. You basically inherited unfinished cases from your 2nd yr resident.
I also remember that working on my thesis took up alot of time. Relationship with co-residents was excellent. There is no more competition. You're in now. You work together. Help each other out. Went out as a group for social interaction. I played golf with a couple of the residents.
Normal day? I just felt I had more responsibility in residency.
In a hospital program ... I spent alot of time with the OMFS and GPR students which was interesting. The OMFS residents would always laugh at us ortho residents for trying to fix a mild class 2 malocclusion when they were doing LeForts. But it was all in good fun.
Other funny stuff? I always laugh when I see the assortment of tongue rings, lip piercings, etc. I once asked a patient if she could attach a 3/16 medium elastic to her tongue ring to help with her bite. She laughed at me.
 
These days, would you say orthodontists who own their own offices always make more than an orthodontist who works for a corp? (getting at least a base salary of $1000-1500 a day)

If you’re satisfied with that much and has no desire of running your own show, by all mean work and make $ for someone else. Owning your own office at first won’t get you that kind of pay; but in the long run it will triple even quadruple such amount. Of course it will come with headaches of having to deal with all kinds of BS from administrative work, personnel issues, patients’ issues etc... but hey you get paid for the stress you have to deal with. Owing your own practice gives you the chance to make more than you can ever imagine and allows you to do orthodontics the way you like it. But it’s certainly risky.
If someone is willing to pay you $1500 a day to work, that person is to make at least the same or more. Would you want to be that person?
 
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If you’re satisfied with that much and has no desire of running your own show, by all mean work and make $ for someone else. Owning your own office at first won’t get you that kind of pay; but in the long run it will triple even quadruple such amount. Of course it will come with headaches of having to deal with all kinds of BS from administrative work, personnel issues, patients’ issues etc... but hey you get paid for the stress you have to deal with. Owing your own practice gives you the chance to make more than you can ever imagine and allows you to do orthodontics the way you like it. But it’s certainly risky.
If someone is willing to pay you $1500 a day to work, that person is to make at least the same or more. Would you want to be that person?
So at the present time, even with Smile Direct Club and GPs doing invisalign and saturation issues, an owner of an established ortho office should still easily net at least $1000-1500 daily? (or triple or quadruple as you state)
 
So at the present time, even with Smile Direct Club and GPs doing invisalign and saturation issues, an owner of an established ortho office should still easily net at least $1000-1500 daily? (or triple or quadruple as you state)

Absolutely. The key word is “established”. You have to go through the growing pain of establishing yourself. Don’t sell yourself short. You went through extra special training to become a specialist. You know about orthodontics much more than those who do Smile Direct or GPs who do clear aligners. They can’t handle tough cases. They may one day call you to ask for ortho advice. But it will take time. Question is: Are you willing to go through that?

In my opinion, the business model of orthodontic practice has changed. We just have adapt and change with it to survive.
 
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