The Reality of Podiatry School Rankings

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MDIT2003

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For all of you who do not understand how rankings work... allow me to help. Though I may be a little bias because I am an MD resident, you will have to realize that you will be working with a lot of us. I have gotten to work with a few Podiatry students, and from what I saw I was pretty impressed. But when it comes down to it, Podiatry is a "specialty" in which ranking wouldn't really matter for the actual school, but instead your residency. While their may be argument that some schools are better at "Podiatry" than others, it's likely based off the quality of your staff that works with you in your clinic and not your board scores (which is obvious because you don't even get to know yours).
So if you are more concerned with "rank" and "reputation" than you are which school suits you best... the methodology is simple... Put the schools into 3 categories... MD/DO/and POD only.
Why? Because if the podiatry schools do end up merging with MEd schools... this is the future you are looking at anyway- not to mention that the medical community around you (non Podiatrists) pretty much rank it like this anyway.
This sucks for a LOT of schools, because even though NYCPM is "technically" associated with a med school- it's not really, and would count as independent. Why? Because at schools, such as Temple and Scholl's (Rosalind Franklin) , the students take the exact same exams the Medical Students (MD/DO) do in the first two years for their basic science classes, which is what get's them the part I board scores that gets them that "ranking" and "respect". Schools such as Barry, who are associated with a University directly, but only have a P.A. program, are not really any better than those who don't have any at all.
Of all the POD schools, the only one that is ranked nationally in medicine is Temple University. Which is ranked both in top 50 Research and top 100 Primary Care. At first I thought maybe the DO schools just didn't get ranked, but US News and World Report made sure to note that they were included in the ranking but did not publish ranks below a specific number.
Their specialty rankings for Hospitals (which is where the residency you got into would matter), is based 100% on Upper Level Faculty Members... which makes sense because you are only as good as the faculty members that teach you. For this reason, I would have been tempted to give NYCPM a second look because of they were the first POD school established, but with the issues they have had not being able to work on the ankle- makes it obvious that you will not be learning as much their as the other schools. Which actually makes me rank it almost at the very bottom, only beating the single school that is left without accreditation, Western University in Cali.
Another HUGE thing to consider is the community where the school is located. Again, sad about NYCPM because they for sure would have the most active clinic. Leaving Temple, Scholl's, Samual Merritt(oakland) and Berry next in line. Sure, Midwestern is close to Phoenix, but when you only have 30 students per class, and a typical girl to guy ratio of 1:9... it's obvious the patient base is going to be about as large and diverse as it's incoming class. I also hear a lot of people say good things about Des Moines and Ohio, though unfortunately being in more "driving dependent" cities, they are likely to lack in clinical experience that residencies elsewhere prefer you be experienced with.
So yes, fundamental education may technically be better in places like Ohio and Iowa, your GPA is not what is going to get you into the best residencies... sorry to break the news to you. Not saying it will hurt, but if you aren't personable, you better go to whichever school will get you out of your shell as fast as possible- because you will be talking to patients every single day... if you aren't good at talking, maybe you should try taking the DAT.
So here are your tiers for "rankings" and "reputations" among the medical communities (and go ahead and say- "it's not true, I know a Dr that says this school is way better than this one"... sure, you will find that in some places, but as a Orthopedic Resident at a TOP residency... this is the typical view). P.S. if you go to schools in lower tiers, you still have a chance at getting into great residencies, but again, this is for people who are more looking for reputation and if the merge does happen... pretty much what the ranking reality would be.

Tier 1:
1. Temple (also previously called Penn Podiatry until it spit- but the ivy league associated never hurts)
Tier 2:
2. Scholl's - (above the others because of location, though outside of downtown chicago, rotations through inner city hospitals will give them the "big city" experience that will benefit them come residency application time) Also US News and World report listed it's Med school ranking as "Unpublished"as opposed to "not ranked", meaning that is was ranked but not high enough to be listed.
3. Des Moines, (good school, but smaller city than Chicago and "unranked" DO program)
4. AZ - (AZ only here because of the DO school it's associated with... it's unfortunately made fun of a lot because of the lack of women ... BUT if you are Mormon, it is rumored to be a great opportunity to make connections, not sure how accurate that is though)
Tier 3:
6. Berry (No DO/MD program but good weather and lots of people- though I have heard A LOT of students complain that they kick a lot of people out... but being the only southern school really helps it out as far as residency placement goes.)
5. CSPM (Oakland)- Apparently use to be in San Fran ... but now in Oakland. So you will get a lot of patients, but it is not associated with any other university so it may not have the access to surrounding hospitals or as many connections as the others)
7. OCOM (same as CSPM but a smaller school in a smaller city- but MUCH safer city!)
Tier 4:
NYCPM (UNLESS GOING FOR A 2 YEAR RESIDENCY THAN EASY TIER 2) Really saddens me to put them here, because I would love to put them right there with Temple- because they are the founding school. So while connections within the state may be amazing... going much further may be hard until they change the laws back (if they haven't already).
Tier 5:
Western (not accredited)


**CA is where the merge is being actively pursued- so even though they aren't associated directly, it may be a good area to go because in the near future the state may let them do a lot more than others (though the others are likely to follow eventually).
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MDIT2003 said:
For all of you who do not understand how rankings work... allow me to help. Though I may be a little bias because I am an MD resident, you will have to realize that you will be working with a lot of us. I have gotten to work with a few Podiatry students, and from what I saw I was pretty impressed. But when it comes down to it, Podiatry is a "specialty" in which ranking wouldn't really matter for the actual school, but instead your residency. While their may be argument that some schools are better at "Podiatry" than others, it's likely based off the quality of your staff that works with you in your clinic and not your board scores (which is obvious because you don't even get to know yours).
So if you are more concerned with "rank" and "reputation" than you are which school suits you best... the methodology is simple... Put the schools into 3 categories... MD/DO/and POD only.
Why? Because if the podiatry schools do end up merging with MEd schools... this is the future you are looking at anyway- not to mention that the medical community around you (non Podiatrists) pretty much rank it like this anyway.
This sucks for a LOT of schools, because even though NYCPM is "technically" associated with a med school- it's not really, and would count as independent. Why? Because at schools, such as Temple and Scholl's (Rosalind Franklin) , the students take the exact same exams the Medical Students (MD/DO) do in the first two years for their basic science classes, which is what get's them the part I board scores that gets them that "ranking" and "respect". Schools such as Barry, who are associated with a University directly, but only have a P.A. program, are not really any better than those who don't have any at all.
Of all the POD schools, the only one that is ranked nationally in medicine is Temple University. Which is ranked both in top 50 Research and top 100 Primary Care. At first I thought maybe the DO schools just didn't get ranked, but US News and World Report made sure to note that they were included in the ranking but did not publish ranks below a specific number.
Their specialty rankings for Hospitals (which is where the residency you got into would matter), is based 100% on Upper Level Faculty Members... which makes sense because you are only as good as the faculty members that teach you. For this reason, I would have been tempted to give NYCPM a second look because of they were the first POD school established, but with the issues they have had not being able to work on the ankle- makes it obvious that you will not be learning as much their as the other schools. Which actually makes me rank it almost at the very bottom, only beating the single school that is left without accreditation, Western University in Cali.
Another HUGE thing to consider is the community where the school is located. Again, sad about NYCPM because they for sure would have the most active clinic. Leaving Temple, Scholl's, Samual Merritt(oakland) and Berry next in line. Sure, Midwestern is close to Phoenix, but when you only have 30 students per class, and a typical girl to guy ratio of 1:9... it's obvious the patient base is going to be about as large and diverse as it's incoming class. I also hear a lot of people say good things about Des Moines and Ohio, though unfortunately being in more "driving dependent" cities, they are likely to lack in clinical experience that residencies elsewhere prefer you be experienced with.
So yes, fundamental education may technically be better in places like Ohio and Iowa, your GPA is not what is going to get you into the best residencies... sorry to break the news to you. Not saying it will hurt, but if you aren't personable, you better go to whichever school will get you out of your shell as fast as possible- because you will be talking to patients every single day... if you aren't good at talking, maybe you should try taking the DAT.
So here are your tiers for "rankings" and "reputations" among the medical communities (and go ahead and say- "it's not true, I know a Dr that says this school is way better than this one"... sure, you will find that in some places, but as a Orthopedic Resident at a TOP residency... this is the typical view). P.S. if you go to schools in lower tiers, you still have a chance at getting into great residencies, but again, this is for people who are more looking for reputation and if the merge does happen... pretty much what the ranking reality would be.

Tier 1:
1. Temple (also previously called Penn Podiatry until it spit- but the ivy league associated never hurts)
Tier 2:
2. Scholl's - (above the others because of location, though outside of downtown chicago, rotations through inner city hospitals will give them the "big city" experience that will benefit them come residency application time) Also US News and World report listed it's Med school ranking as "Unpublished"as opposed to "not ranked", meaning that is was ranked but not high enough to be listed.
3. Des Moines, (good school, but smaller city than Chicago and "unranked" DO program)
4. AZ - (AZ only here because of the DO school it's associated with... it's unfortunately made fun of a lot because of the lack of women ... BUT if you are Mormon, it is rumored to be a great opportunity to make connections, not sure how accurate that is though)
Tier 3:
6. Berry (No DO/MD program but good weather and lots of people- though I have heard A LOT of students complain that they kick a lot of people out... but being the only southern school really helps it out as far as residency placement goes.)
5. CSPM (Oakland)- Apparently use to be in San Fran ... but now in Oakland. So you will get a lot of patients, but it is not associated with any other university so it may not have the access to surrounding hospitals or as many connections as the others)
7. OCOM (same as CSPM but a smaller school in a smaller city- but MUCH safer city!)
Tier 4:
NYCPM (UNLESS GOING FOR A 2 YEAR RESIDENCY THAN EASY TIER 2) Really saddens me to put them here, because I would love to put them right there with Temple- because they are the founding school. So while connections within the state may be amazing... going much further may be hard until they change the laws back (if they haven't already).
Tier 5:
Western (not accredited)


**CA is where the merge is being actively pursued- so even though they aren't associated directly, it may be a good area to go because in the near future the state may let them do a lot more than others (though the others are likely to follow eventually).
Click to expand...


Temple was never Penn Podiatry. It was Pennsylvania College Of Podiatric Medicine and it never had any association with Penn and never will.

There are way too many fallacies in this post to actually credit you with providing good advice to prospective students. I don't believe you actually know what you are talking about so thanks for the waste of time!
 
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There are so many things to say in reply to this, but it's hot, and I've already had a long day. So I'll keep it brief.
IF indeed all schools have a degree change and becomes a sub of MD/DO programs who knows what will happen. But there's a couple of things you probably aren't aware of in regards to NYCPM.

First: All of the Podiatry schools are in talks with each other (as of several months ago) to make sure that curriculum is similar across the board. This is not to say each professor is the same, but the material we learn, the objectives the professors are pursuing, they have been (for the most part) ironed out. So yes, NYCPM is a stand alone, but we are being taught similarly to all other Pod schools. The fact that 99% of our recent class passed the National Boards Part 1 means that our pre-clinical education must be up to snuff.

Second: Our clinical education encompasses the ankle. That is even true for those that stay for a residency in New York. Under current law a practicing Podiatrist in New York cannot work on the ankle (though that may change this year). However, students are exempt from that. What it means is we are often taught by Orthopedic Surgeons when it comes to those areas. In a residency you work under that department, perform all of the surgeries on the foot and ankle, but when you are finished you are not legally allowed to practice what you've been doing for the last several years. Which is why the very best of our Podiatric surgeons tend to leave the state.

and just as a last tidbit: you mentioned that if you do a two year residency that NYCPM would be a "tier two." These days the majority of Podiatric Residencies are three-year surgical residencies. There are very few two years left anymore, and in a couple of years, I doubt there will be any.

Well, that was a bit longer of a reply than I thought it would be. Thanks for your input, and perhaps we'll work together in the future!
 
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DancerPod said:
There are so many things to say in reply to this, but it's hot, and I've already had a long day. So I'll keep it brief.
IF indeed all schools have a degree change and becomes a sub of MD/DO programs who knows what will happen. But there's a couple of things you probably aren't aware of in regards to NYCPM.

First: All of the Podiatry schools are in talks with each other (as of several months ago) to make sure that curriculum is similar across the board. This is not to say each professor is the same, but the material we learn, the objectives the professors are pursuing, they have been (for the most part) ironed out. So yes, NYCPM is a stand alone, but we are being taught similarly to all other Pod schools. The fact that 99% of our recent class passed the National Boards Part 1 means that our pre-clinical education must be up to snuff.

Second: Our clinical education encompasses the ankle. That is even true for those that stay for a residency in New York. Under current law a practicing Podiatrist in New York cannot work on the ankle (though that may change this year). However, students are exempt from that. What it means is we are often taught by Orthopedic Surgeons when it comes to those areas. In a residency you work under that department, perform all of the surgeries on the foot and ankle, but when you are finished you are not legally allowed to practice what you've been doing for the last several years. Which is why the very best of our Podiatric surgeons tend to leave the state.

and just as a last tidbit: you mentioned that if you do a two year residency that NYCPM would be a "tier two." These days the majority of Podiatric Residencies are three-year surgical residencies. There are very few two years left anymore, and in a couple of years, I doubt there will be any.

Well, that was a bit longer of a reply than I thought it would be. Thanks for your input, and perhaps we'll work together in the future!
Click to expand...

I am starting at Temple this Fall and I agree with you, DancerPod, that this "resident" has no idea what he/she is talking about and should probably stay away from posting in a podiatric forum. He/she is supposedly a resident MD but just joined SDN this month and has such poor writing style and grammar? Very fishy!

This post should be deleted as prospective students may be swayed by this ill-constructed, random piece of false information.
 
I have also come up with a fool proof way to rank the schools. Instead of looking at the students GPA/MCAT, board pass rate or residency match...I have decided to rank them alphabetically.

Tier 1 (A-G)

1. Barry (B is unusually close to the letter A making Barry the top ranking school)
2. CSPM...
 
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Mods, can we get an IP check please?
 
Iamyourfaja said:
I am starting at Temple this Fall
Click to expand...

Congratulations!

and yes, it's possibly a trolling, but just in case it isn't, and for new people that are checking out the thread, I thought I'd clear up a couple of things. We get asked the ankle question a lot out here.

I suppose it's also entirely possible that's how the guys at his residency "rank" our schools... who knows, if he replies we'll get a better idea.
 
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Another long, rambling post filled with non-information and thinly hidden insults.

Sounds familiar.

I wish I had this much time in the day.
 
I'm slightly suspicious.

1) I find it odd that this "MD's" very first post would be dedicated to a podiatric topic.

2) I find it odd that he/she has medical student under his/her name, yet states that he/she is "a orthopedic resident" (should be an orthopedic resident). I would understand that if he/she had posted on this forum many years or months ago while he/she was a student and never changed the status, but this is his/her first post.

3) I find if VERY odd that ANY MD/medical student or resident would really know that much about podiatry or the podiatric medical schools, even when considering the post was filled with errors. There was still a wealth of information that is way beyond what ANY MD I ever met knows about our education.

4) I don't know of any orthopedic resident that would have the time to post on this type of forum, or frankly care enough to post on a podiatric forum.

5) There was definitely a hidden agenda.

Just my opinion and observations.
 
PADPM said:
I'm slightly suspicious.

1) I find it odd that this "MD's" very first post would be dedicated to a podiatric topic.

2) I find it odd that he/she has medical student under his/her name, yet states that he/she is "a orthopedic resident" (should be an orthopedic resident). I would understand that if he/she had posted on this forum many years or months ago while he/she was a student and never changed the status, but this is his/her first post.

3) I find if VERY odd that ANY MD/medical student or resident would really know that much about podiatry or the podiatric medical schools, even when considering the post was filled with errors. There was still a wealth of information that is way beyond what ANY MD I ever met knows about our education.

4) I don't know of any orthopedic resident that would have the time to post on this type of forum, or frankly care enough to post on a podiatric forum.

5) There was definitely a hidden agenda.

Just my opinion and observations.
Click to expand...

I find it odd too

I would also like a IP address check as well see what their primary account is, because we all know this isnt a primary account
 
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6557 characters in OP's post. That's an impressive feat of trolling. Somebody must be really bitter about the last time they got banned for trolling. :laugh:
 
Ferocity said:
6557 characters in OP's post. That's an impressive feat of trolling. Somebody must be really bitter about the last time they got banned for trolling. :laugh:
Click to expand...

I'm not a technological genius, so I HOPE there's a quick way to count the characters, because I'd hate to think you actually took the time to manually count.:eek:
 
PADPM said:
I'm not a technological genius, so I HOPE there's a quick way to count the characters, because I'd hate to think you actually took the time to manually count.:eek:
Click to expand...


Copy and paste the post into Word and it counts for you. :)
 
Iamyourfaja said:
I am starting at Temple this Fall and I agree with you, DancerPod, that this "resident" has no idea what he/she is talking about and should probably stay away from posting in a podiatric forum. He/she is supposedly a resident MD but just joined SDN this month and has such poor writing style and grammar? Very fishy!

This post should be deleted as prospective students may be swayed by this ill-constructed, random piece of false information.
Click to expand...

Ok I am just going to say this once.

I am not saying that this dude isnt a troll... maybe he is a md maybe he isnt who knows and I really dont care.

I have seen quite a few people on this board (the podiatry section) bashing people for having poor grammar.

People... THIS IS THE FREAKING INTERNET THIS IS NOT A LITERATURE OR ENGLISH CLASSROOM. WHO IN GODS NAME HAS GOOD GRAMMAR ON THE INTERNET. ONES TYPING ABILITY IS NOT A INDICATOR OF THEIR INTELLIGENCE.

after many posts of seeing people here insulting others about that s*%t I finally had to get that off of my chest.

</rant>
 
You forgot a question mark when you asked who has good grammar on the internet. :laugh:

Just teasing you a bit. I agree though, online grammar police can get annoying.
 
emericana said:
WHO IN GODS NAME HAS GOOD GRAMMAR ON THE INTERNET.
Click to expand...
I do.

The main reason I take issue with poor grammar on these forums is because of what future students, students, residents, and attending physicians represent. Why would we not want to type in such a way so that what we are saying is properly expressed and understood? We are intermingling amongst a lot of future colleagues and although this is an anonymous forum it is still a representation of the field.

I generally do not go out of my way to say something ridiculing to those who choose to practice poor grammar; however, I still get upset when I read a post from a potential future colleague of mine that looks like something a fourth grader wrote. This does not mean people should type with perfection (as I clearly do not), but they should make some effort to make it look intelligently done.

That's just my 2 cents.
 
BioPod said:
I do.

The main reason I take issue with poor grammar on these forums is because of what future students, students, residents, and attending physicians represent. Why would we not want to type in such a way so that what we are saying is properly expressed and understood? We are intermingling amongst a lot of future colleagues and although this is an anonymous forum it is still a representation of the field.

I generally do not go out of my way to say something ridiculing to those who choose to practice poor grammar; however, I still get upset when I read a post from a potential future colleague of mine that looks like something a fourth grader wrote. This does not mean people should type with perfection (as I clearly do not), but they should make some effort to make it look intelligently done.

That's just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

Completely agree with you hear. These people that use poor grammar when there trying to make an argument are nuts and I really find that to be mind bottling. For all intensive purposes, you minus well just take a grammar class if your going to continue to display such poor grammar skills.
 
Ferocity said:
Completely agree with you hear. These people that use poor grammar when there trying to make an argument are nuts and I really find that to be mind bottling. For all intensive purposes, you minus well just take a grammar class if your going to continue to display such poor grammar skills.
Click to expand...

I hope you're just kidding.
 
BioPod said:
The main reason I take issue with poor grammar on these forums is because of what future students, students, residents, and attending physicians represent. Why would we not want to type in such a way so that what we are saying is properly expressed and understood? We are intermingling amongst a lot of future colleagues and although this is an anonymous forum it is still a representation of the field.
Click to expand...

That's a valid point but I would go as far as to say that as bad as horrible grammar may look, calling someone out for it on the internet looks just as bad especially when it's your only counter-argument. I know in my case I try to type as clearly as possible but won't take the time to go back and fix a small error or two. It's not that a big a deal either way.
 
TheFootDoc said:
I hope you're just kidding.
Click to expand...
I'm fairly certain he was. Lol :)


fivescrew said:
That's a valid point but I would go as far as to say that as bad as horrible grammar may look, calling someone out for it on the internet looks just as bad especially when it's your only counter-argument. I know in my case I try to type as clearly as possible but won't take the time to go back and fix a small error or two. It's not that a big a deal either way.
Click to expand...
I honestly don't think it looks as bad, but I agree that it doesn't look good. That is one of the main reasons I rarely if ever call someone out on poor grammar. My post was merely an explanation of why *I* find poor grammar to be distasteful, especially in this environment.
 
HANDS DOWN Barry is the #1 Podiatry school in the US. King James, D Wade, and Bosh are down in Miami, nothing can compare to this.

If Dallas had a school, it would be the new #1
 
Ferocity said:
Completely agree with you hear. These people that use poor grammar when there trying to make an argument are nuts and I really find that to be mind bottling. For all intensive purposes, you minus :laugh:well just take a grammar class if your going to continue to display such poor grammar skills.
Click to expand...


Glass houses...............................................................
 
fivescrew said:
That's a valid point but I would go as far as to say that as bad as horrible grammar may look, calling someone out for it on the internet looks just as bad especially when it's your only counter-argument. I know in my case I try to type as clearly as possible but won't take the time to go back and fix a small error or two. It's not that a big a deal either way.
Click to expand...

If you read my post you would recognize this was not my argument. My argument was that this guy/girl has no clue what he/she is talking about. The fact that he/she writes so poorly and makes up "facts"(Penn podiatry) just compounds the idiocy of his post. I'm not an English teacher, but I'm going to point out the fact when explaining how silly someone's post is.


Anyway, let's delete this pointless post.
 
I wasn't referring to your post or any one post in particular. Just playing devil's advocate regarding the whole subject.
 
I'm still not sure if Five is a Crew, or if Five is a Screw. Five's crew or five screw? Elucidation on this matter will inevitably help me sleep better at night.
 
Ferocity said:
Completely agree with you hear. These people that use poor grammar when there trying to make an argument are nuts and I really find that to be mind bottling. For all intensive purposes, you minus well just take a grammar class if your going to continue to display such poor grammar skills.
Click to expand...
LOL! Well done.
 
1332.jpg
:laugh:
 
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emericana said:
Ok I am just going to say this once.

I am not saying that this dude isnt a troll... maybe he is a md maybe he isnt who knows and I really dont care.

I have seen quite a few people on this board (the podiatry section) bashing people for having poor grammar.

People... THIS IS THE FREAKING INTERNET THIS IS NOT A LITERATURE OR ENGLISH CLASSROOM. WHO IN GODS NAME HAS GOOD GRAMMAR ON THE INTERNET. ONES TYPING ABILITY IS NOT A INDICATOR OF THEIR INTELLIGENCE.

after many posts of seeing people here insulting others about that s*%t I finally had to get that off of my chest.

</rant>
Click to expand...

Hey emericana, I agree with you. I really don't care about grammar and it really was irrelevant to my point. However, if you were attempting to present yourself as an all knowing expert talking down to the young and naive, wouldn't you attempt to at least seem half intelligent?

I think it was fair game to call out the troll's grammatical mistakes based on the way he/she presented himself, no?
 
BioPod said:
I do.

The main reason I take issue with poor grammar on these forums is because of what future students, students, residents, and attending physicians represent. Why would we not want to type in such a way so that what we are saying is properly expressed and understood? We are intermingling amongst a lot of future colleagues and although this is an anonymous forum it is still a representation of the field.

I generally do not go out of my way to say something ridiculing to those who choose to practice poor grammar; however, I still get upset when I read a post from a potential future colleague of mine that looks like something a fourth grader wrote. This does not mean people should type with perfection (as I clearly do not), but they should make some effort to make it look intelligently done.

That's just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...

:thumbup: I agree that it is not a bad idea to try to sound like someone half intelligent on the board. Picking someone apart for little mistakes is one thing, but saying "you claim to be an intellect but type like a *****" is appropriate in my opinion.
 
yall cats be trippin about nuttun tho ya dig? ain't nobody cares bout no gramma fa sho.
 
BioPod said:
Chuck Norris jokes = Barrens Chat. :D Lol
Click to expand...


Ya just had to get that grammar rant off of my chest.

I mean it is one thing if the guy is typing in all 1337 5|D33|< or is using atrocious grammar to the point that no one can understand it but I mean... I really think that attacking someone for the way that they post on a message board... unless it is very very unledgable (which OP's post def was not) is just not a good argument/measure of someones intelligence.


Whit that being said OP... where you at bro? Why did you spend all of this time to write such a long post with some interesting commentary and then not post back in this thread? Troll?
 
When Chuck Norris does a push up, he doesn't actually push up...the earth gets pushed down.
 
Does anyone else here consider WesternU pod program to be the top

I know we cant really consider it good as it is new and in the process of accreditation, but Ive always gotten a vibe that westernU was up there somewhere

What do other people think
 
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I have been planning to attend NYCPM, but after reading this post I am getting VERY nervous :scared:
 
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