Dismiss Notice
Hey Texans—join us for a DFW meetup! Click here to learn more.

The SMARTEST DO school in the nation!

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by ribcrackindoc, Oct 17, 2002.

  1. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    It's pretty well accepted that MCAT's scores correlate with board scores. So, schools like Kirksville and PCOM who accept people with relatively high MCAT's compared to other DO schools must do better on the boards than other schools. In regards to the AVERAGE boards score (comlex step 1) of students from each respective school, how do you think the 19 DO schools rank????
    Does anyone know for sure???? What are the exact numbers??? Let's see who ranks the SMARTEST DO SCHOOL IN AMERICA
    Now people, I realize there are smart people at every school, so don't get all bent out of shape. I started this for 2 reasons and 2 reasons only:

    1) It would be interesting to KNOW the TRUTH about which schools perform the best on the boards.

    2) It would be interesting to see what people THINK of the 19 DO schools, that is, the perception people have about which schools excel academically.

    I bet this will be interesting...:D
     
  2. Note: SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. San_Juan_Sun

    San_Juan_Sun Professor of Life
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Funny you mention that. This topic has been debated before, and people like to drop praise for schools THEY like. Sometimes, there is a regional bias.

    For example, some have asked "Which DO school is the best" and someone from the East Coast says NYCOM or PCOM. And then they'll admit that those are the schools with which they are most familiar. Or someone from the Midwest will talk about Kirksville or UHS.

    Now don't get me wrong, I think those are good schools. And I firmly believe that you'll be able to get a good education from any accreditted school in the US. I would just like to see some facts pertaining to this question, instead of wild-eyed guesses.
     
  4. shindog

    shindog Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    OSU-COM consistently has 99-100% pass rates on COMLEX and USMLE and the highest MCAT average = 9+9+9 = 27
     
  5. s42brown

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    KCOM has a MCAT average of 27 also, and they have equally as high COMLEX and UMSLE scores. Considering the fact that they are not a state school and get the cream of the crop from across the country I'd have to go with KCOM.:p :p :p
     
  6. shindog

    shindog Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree. It's a tough choice between OSU and KCOM - both schools are very similar, academically speaking.
     
  7. John DO

    John DO A.T. Still Endowed Chair
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    0
    WOW! That is absolutely amazing! You realize that this information makes OSU-COM one of the TOP medical schools in the nation, then--allopathic or osteopathic!? Considering that as of 2000 the national average pass rate for allopathic students on the USMLE was only 90% and for osteopathic students was only 75%, this truly makes OSU the top Osteopathic school, rivaled only be a few allopathic schools. Now I wish I had not turned down their acceptance! Mind you, I think OSU is a wonderful school and my friends there are very happy, but let's verify our data, please. (reference http://www.usmle.org/news/medlic.htm)

    For some actual numbers: KCOM consisitently ranks among the highest scores, with an average pass rate on the USMLE of about 85% and on the COMLEX of about 97%. Last year, the school in Texas (I believe) scored the highest pass rate of 100%, but KCOM had the highest average SCORE.

    Does anyone else have any solid numbers?
     
  8. Bull's eye

    Bull's eye The Gunslinger
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    UHS had 97% pass rate
    Average COMLEX score: 521
    Highest score verified: 690
    (Rumor says 705)
    National Averages: 88% pass rate
    Average Score: 500
     
  9. shindog

    shindog Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    WOW! That is absolutely amazing! You realize that this information makes OSU-COM one of the TOP medical schools in the nation, then--allopathic or osteopathic!? Considering that as of 2000 the national average pass rate for allopathic students on the USMLE was only 90% and for osteopathic students was only 75%, this truly makes OSU the top Osteopathic school, rivaled only be a few allopathic schools. Now I wish I had not turned down their acceptance! Mind you, I think OSU is a wonderful school and my friends there are very happy, but let's verify our data, please. (reference http://www.usmle.org/news/medlic.htm)

    For some actual numbers: KCOM consisitently ranks among the highest scores, with an average pass rate on the USMLE of about 85% and on the COMLEX of about 97%. Last year, the school in Texas (I believe) scored the highest pass rate of 100%, but KCOM had the highest average SCORE.

    Does anyone else have any solid numbers?


    Whoa there, John DO. Just settle down. The 99-100% pass rate for the COMLEX Step I is not that big of a deal. KCOM has similar numbers. The USMLE Step I numbers are also 99-100%. There are several reasons for this:
    1. OSU-COM only has 85-90 students per class = very selective
    2. These numbers are only for the Step I
    3. Dr. Goljan teaches our Path course. In case you haven't heard about him- he writes the BRS Path book. He also contributes many questions to the USMLE, and he runs a review course for the USMLE around the country. Students at other med schools request his lecture from us all the time to study for the USMLE. His path class almost overprepares us for the test, which is dominated by path. Also, he conducts a two-week intensive review class just for our students prior to taking the test.
    4. Only a small percentage of OSU students take the USMLE. It's not like all 88 students are taking it - mostly students applying to competitive allopathic residencies.

    These numbers should not surprise you. KCOM also has 99-100% pass rates for both tests. That's why USMLE representatives came to KCOM to see what was going on.

    The numbes for OSU-COM are not public available on the web. You have to ask the student affairs office for them directly. When I interviewed here I had no idea the scores were that high until I spoke with the Dean of student affairs.
    Believe me, it was a tough choice between KCOM are OSU - both have excellent academics. I even chose OSU over some allopathic schools I got accepted to. I'm sure many KCOM students do the same.
    So if you want to "investigate" the numbers, call OSU and ask them. They willbe happy to let you know.
     
  10. shindog

    shindog Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2002
    Messages:
    213
    Likes Received:
    0
    The whole point of responding to this thread is to share what I know about my school (and KCOM). The point is not to argue about what school is better or smarter than the other. There are an infinite number of factors that go into making a good school. Hell, I don't even know PCOM's numbers. I haven't seen them on the web, but I hear they're pretty high. Numbers don't make the school. I'm just posting them because that's what ribscrackindoc asked for. Also, John DO, you should know better about OSU if you have friends there. Just ask them - they'll tell you. Last year one person in the class failed the COMLEX 1 - and I think she was pregnant for the entire second year. Everyone who took the USMLE Step I last year passed it. (I'm not sure how many took it)
    :D
     
  11. Fenrezz

    Fenrezz AT Stills Worst Nightmare
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    0
    I say we set up a rumble between OSU and KCOM. Last man standing will represent the best school in the country.

    We'll set up some OMT tables so that instructors can manipulate some of the people who get beaten down. That way we can show who has the best instructors as well.

    No guns or knives. Just chains, bats, and anatomy books for weapons.
     
  12. John DO

    John DO A.T. Still Endowed Chair
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    0
    I just found new USMLE data, FYI.

    TABLE 1 - 2000-2001 STEP 1 ADMINISTRATIONS
    Number Tested and Percent Passing
    2000 2001*
    # Tested % Passing # Tested % Passing
    US/Canadian Examinees
    LCME Students 18,267 90% 18,380 88%
    1st Takers 16,412 93% 16,368 91%
    Repeaters** 1,855 58% 2,012 58%
    Osteopathic Students 823 75% 774 69%
    1st Takers 785 77% 723 72%
    Repeaters** 38 40% 51 31%
    Total US/Canadian 19,090 89% 19,154 87%


    The formatting screwed up, but bottom line is that pass rates are falling nationwide, with only a 69% pass rate for Osteopathic schools, down from 75% in 2000 and 80% in 1999.
     
  13. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    OK, so far only one person shared the average COMLEX score for a medical school and that was:

    522 for UHS (way to go UHS, with a national average of 500!)

    Anyone else know some #'s?????????

    Check this out from US News + World Report:

    Osteopathic Medical Schools listed in descending order by MCAT:
    Oklahoma: 9.0
    Touro: 9.0
    University of North Texas: 9.0
    Kirksville: 8.9
    Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine of Midwestern University: 8.7
    Western University (CA): 8.7
    UMDNJ: 8.6
    Michigan: 8.5
    University of Health Sciences(MO): 8.4
    Arizona: 8.3
    Nova (FLA): 8.3
    UNECOM: 8.3
    NYCOM: 8.2
    Des Moines: 8.1
    Lake Erie: 8.0
    West Virginia: 7.6
    Pikesville: 7.4
    Ohio: N/A
    Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine (Philadelphia, PA): N/A
    Medical School information - from the 2000 annual U.S. NEWS and WORLD REPORT

    I bet the average COMLEX scores are in a similar order- anyone KNOW??????????????
     
  14. Nic_machiavelli

    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2002
    Messages:
    51
    Likes Received:
    1
    Hate to pee on people's parades, but I'm a bit annoyed today about grades.

    If grades were all that important you wouldn't have to worry about internships or residencies. You could ace a test and then treat a patient. Fortunately, grades have little to do with how good a doctor you become. Go ahead and argue this as an intellectual exercise, but honestly, you may want to keep grades in perspective. I'd rather my children visit a pediatrician with 10 years of experience after middling scores than someone fresh out of a top-rated school with blazing scores.

    Humility is an under-valued quality and is one usually learned only from experience. Be prepared for large doses when the RN with 20 years of experience kicks your high scoring butt when you start your rotations...

    Good luck!
    Nick
     
  15. dmustud

    dmustud New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    One dude from DMU scored 807 on comlex level 1 last june
     
  16. pink

    pink Junior Member
    15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2002
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    I, for one, would like to thank Nick for giving some perspective on this issue. Why do I feel like DO students are often trying to see how we measure up? We know why we chose the schools we're at. We must have what it takes, or they wouldn't have chosen us. And above all that, we know without a doubt that our training is going to make us awesome docs! All our patients will know is that we are doctors, that we have unique training and that we care about them. What more could anyone want? :)
     
  17. I don't know about smartest or whatever.

    I do know that I'm getting a great education, and I'm actually starting to enjoy medical school. Fierce Competition among classmates isn't cool. Gunners and fish both have something in common. They both smell after 3 days.

    With all due respect... The take home message...

    This kind of stuff gets old fast.
     
  18. Sweaty Paul

    Sweaty Paul Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is an assinine thread.

    All the schools will suck a lifetime of work out of you in 4 years. As future physicians you have lots more that you ought to be worried about. I know that med students by their very nature are competitive, however, you have passed your last hurdle. it is time to begin to appreciate one another and one-another's institutions for their strengths and help each other with your particular institutions weaknesses.

    You should instead spend this investigative energy exploring how insurance companies are raising liability insurance coverage, decreasing physician reimbursement, stalling reimbursement payments, and denying coverage of the patient for procedures. You should be exploring Personal Liablity Insurance Reform and Tort Reform and spending this pent up energy of who is better on something like "physicians v. crooked lawyers and insurance companies".

    You should be worried that Las Vegas NO LONGER HAS TRAUMA CAPABILITIES ON THE WEEKENDS.

    You should be worried that 11% of FP DOCS HAVE LEFT NEVADA.

    You should be concerned that ONLY 1 NEUROSURGEON CAN BE FOUND IN THE ENTIRE STATE OF WEST VIRGINIA.

    You should be concerned that SOME LIABILTY INSURANCE COMPANIES HAVE RAISED THEIR RATES BY 400% THIS YEAR ALONE.

    These are the issues that you will be facing. You are all going to be Doctors...assuming you will be able to afford being a physician. No matter from what school you are graduated you will be a Doctor of Osteopathy. Each school is unique. Each school will fit individuals differently. In the end your only charge is to learn the material, not to pass a standardized test, but to treat patients. Test scores DO NOT INDICATE INTELLIGENCE. Afterall Einstein was nearly booted for failing 8th grade.

    O.K. enough of my rant. Start studying and spend your extra time figuring a way to help the health care crisis by getting PLI (Personal Liability Insurance) reform passed and Tort reform passed.

    Sweaty Paul MS-III
    KCOM
     
  19. Bull's eye

    Bull's eye The Gunslinger
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2002
    Messages:
    176
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    I like this thread, but I want to see some hard data. I don't want assumptions. The average pass rate was 88%. What schools pulled it down?
     
  20. Aberfly

    Aberfly Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2002
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Haha, it's human nature for people to categorize and rank things. Most magazines which do such rankings focus on allopathic schools, so it's natural for us to try and do it with osteopathic schools. I think most people understand that there are advantages to each and every DO school, and that there is more to life than test scores, and that each DO graduate (regardless of school) will be a valuable member to the medical community.

    But KCOM is still the best :D
     
  21. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
    For crying out loud people, READ THE ORIGINAL POST!!!! I stated my goals for starting this thread.
    1)it would be interesting to see how schools really rank and
    2) it would be interesting to see how people think they rank.
    Those were my ONLY goals!!! you people assumed I had additional goals.

    Nic_machiavelli: I agree with everything you said. but PLEASE stop assuming things. You assume that I'm a med student, that I have high grades, that I'm a D.O. student, and that I'm clueless about what makes a good doctor. I consciously neglected to submit that info. because I knew idealists like yourself would try to turn this into a feel-good thread. There's nothing wrong with feel-good threads, but this isn't one, and I TRIED to design it that way. Again, I agree with you that grades don't necessarily correlate with quality of care.

    Pink: You also assume I'm affiliated with the D.O. world. Also, you say you feel like D.O. students always seem like they're trying to see how they measure up. I never mentioned anything about the M.D. world. I agree that a schools academic ranking shouldn't be the sole factor in determining where a pre-med chooses to do his/her training.

    WishUponAStar: Now I'm fierce??? I agree with you that fierce competition between classmates isn't "cool." I never mentioned anything about intramural competition though. Finally, if this kind of stuff gets old fast to you, they quietly pass over to something that isn't old. Some people obviously have not reached sainthood like yourself and still find amusement in this topic. Please refrain from your unprovoked complaints and leave us horrifically immoral and cutthroat bastards to ourselves.

    Sweaty Paul: Where do I start? How dare you judge me and assert that I should be worried about other things? Thanks for the lesson in morality but no thanks. You don't know me nor do you know what I worry about or how involved I am in the community and TORT reform. Lastly, your vague statement that TEST SCORES DO NOT INDICATE INTELLIGENCE is laughable. If you would like to first define intelligence and then talk statistics with me, I will gladly participate in that discussion, as stats is of a particular interest of mine.

    Aberfly: You say "there is more to life than test scores."
     
  22. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    sorry, wrong button

    Aberfly: you say "there is more than life than test scores." NO KIDDING!!!!!!

    Everyone: Why oh WHY does asking such a simple question automatically qualify one as such a simple-minded and cutthroat jerk. Why are there so many idealists out there poised and ready (in fact looking) to lynch anyone who may have potentially hinted at a thought which resembles political incorrectness?????????????? RELAX. Finally, in the spirit of WishUponA Star, I will leave you with a take-home point:

    Please stop assuming things people!

    OH great, now I sound like a bitter jerk!

    Well, take care all.
     
  23. Aberfly

    Aberfly Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2002
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Ribcrackindoc, don't stress this. I had your back. I said that it's natural for people to rank things, and that it's ok to go ahead and do it because people inherently understand there is more to life than test scores. So don't jump on me. But anyway, I too would be interested in seeing results of your original question. It's just interesting/simple fun.
     
  24. AviatorDoc

    AviatorDoc fizz ee at' rist
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Ribcrackindoc...

    I think you're assuming that people are assuming. :D

    some are stating facts, some are stating opinions, but i havent read anything where people are assuming things about you.

    relax (oh, wait. sorry. i was assuming that you weren't relaxed. Am I overstepping my bounds here?) ;)
     
  25. Sweaty Paul

    Sweaty Paul Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    ribcrackindoc

    First off ribcrackindoc you need to please understand that by my disagreeing with your opinions I am not attacking you as a person, just this one single idea. I am not judging you by disagreeing with this thread. I am merely stating that for all of the effort of looking up info on "who is the best" takes some time, time that in my opinion, could be better spent.

    As for my thoughts on TEST SCORES NOT INDICATING INTELLIGENCE being laughable and the need to define intelligence, I would agree that we ought to, if we were to continue this discussion, define the concept of intelligence. However, I stand by the very basic nature of my statement. For example, on rotations when your Doctor is pimping you (see testing you) and you don't know the answers you aren't suddenly dumb. I realizing that pimping is significantly different than boards, yet both are tests, and with "letters of recommendation" a crucial component of your future career, pimping is a series of important tests it is best to try to "pass".

    Again I apologize if you thought I was personally attacking you as that wasn't the case. I still think that looking up the info you desire will take time and energy from other things that are more important, whether it is philanthropy or just having fun since the end result is the same...you will all be docs.
     
  26. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    First, my apologies to Aberfly. I read your first message quickly and incorrectly because I skipped words. I read "People, understand there are more important things in life than test scores" as if it were an order. Really you were just explaining that "people inherently understand that there are more important things..." Thanks for having my back bud.

    AviatorDoc: If you read carefully, there were indeed many assumptions made. For example Nic_machiavelli wrote: Be prepared for large doses (of humility) when the RN with 20 years of experience kicks your high scoring butt when you start your rotations... Does this not assume that I'm a high-performing med student who has yet to begin rotations? Regardless, hats off to you because I liked your comeback, it was clever yet tactful, and even kinda wiseass. It sounded like something I would say.

    Sweety Paul: I saw judgement in your original passage not in your statement about intelligence but in your advice on what I SHOULD be worried about and what I should spend my time doing. Also, do you see the irony here? You're essentially criticizing me for using poor judgement on time management while you sit behind your computer reading and replying to posts which you don't feel are worthy of investigative effort. I might say you have exercised poor judgement on picking your fights. You wrote: "I still think that looking up the info you desire will take time and energy from other things that are more important, whether it is philanthropy or just having fun since the end result is the same...you will all be docs." Food for thought: Maybe looking up this info is fun for some(one and the same). I'm really tired, so I lack the motivation to start a new thread on intelligence and testing performance, but if you start it off with some good definitions and assertions, I'm sure I'll fail to restrain myself from offering my thoughts.

    Now.... on with the timewasting. Who's got the rankings? And while we're waiting on the answer, debate this:

    Why is it that people are so afraid of being ranked, how is it that ranking people and/or schools has become so politically incorrect, and why is it that so much effort is expended to protect those at the bottom of the bell curve and hide the numbers which prove them inferior?
     
  27. Sweaty Paul

    Sweaty Paul Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ribcrackindoc,

    First, I wasn't judging you or your time management skills, I was merely pointing out a variety of other areas that everyone, including myself, could stand to learn about (lots) because of the nature of medicine. It certainly was no comment on how you or anyone else who has taken part in this debate uses their time.

    Secondly, I wasn't picking a fight. I still believe that everyone's time could be better served elsewhere. Furthermore, there is no irony here. I haven't investigated anything, I merely jotted down a couple of things that in my opinion are more important than rankings of osteopathic schools and their scores.

    Thirdly, as to the fun thing you wrote "maybe looking up this info is fun for some (one and the same)"
    You are absolutely correct and I stand completely corrected.

    Fourthly, rank away. I agree with you that there isn't anything wrong (I just hoped to get some other issues to light). Unfortunately, I don't know that in the case of medical schools what ranking really means (even in the allopathic world). Seriously, wherever you are graduated from you will still be referred to as Doctor and your patients won't care as long you don't kill or hurt them, and unless you go to Hopkins, Harvard, Mayos, Yale, or the local state school (osteopathic or allopathic) they likely haven't heard of your school anyway. However, if you find ranking fun; have at it.

    Lastly, I want to remind everyone this one little hunk of advice: when you are taking boards it is a personal thing. YOU are the only one that matters. Your school average means nothing at that point, your MCAT score means nothing at that point, it is only you and your #2 pencils for 16 hours of fun.

    Sweaty Paul MS-III
    KCOM
     
  28. double elle

    double elle Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2000
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    2
    ribcrackindoc-
    Warning - assumptions about you are coming....

    I am assuming you either 1) work someplace where you have constant access to a computer or 2) are an undergraduate student with nothing to do but quote yourself and others in the computer lab at midnight on a Friday night or 3)you are an insanely intelligent medical student who sits in class on your laptop quoting everyone on SDN because you already know everything being taught or 4)You are unemployeed and just sit at home and wait for assumptions to be made about you so you can respond ASAP

    Okay - responding to each of my sentences should keep you busy for the next few minutes or so.

    No matter what your story is....People have only added to the discussion on this topic...and you have taken offense to almost every single one of them.

    Personally, I don't care about rankings or anything like that. I simply enjoy seeing the different opinions. You, however, seem to NOT enjoy the different opinions, rather you prefer to pick apart every single thing a person says. I hope you are just like that on the computer, and NOT like that in real life.

    Sweaty Paul - QUIT apologizing to this shmuck!!!!!
     
  29. OldManDave

    OldManDave Fossil Bouncer Emeritus
    Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 1999
    Messages:
    1,768
    Likes Received:
    3
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    Wow! That is quite an accomplishment...especially since there are only 800 points possible.

    :laugh: :p :laugh: :p
     
  30. AviatorDoc

    AviatorDoc fizz ee at' rist
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    May 17, 2002
    Messages:
    173
    Likes Received:
    0
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    This may be a minor point, but hey, that's what they test on in medical school, so why not?

    Ribcrackindoc... I've read & reread Nic_Macchiavelli's post (sorry for wrong spellings here), and the "your" has no antecedent referring to you personally. I believe the "your" was referring to all medical school students who perform well. I could be assuming the wrong thing, but by reading it in the other manner, you were assuming as well.

    My point is, that a thread like this is filled with assumptions, presumptions, judgements, and the like. That's just the nature of things. Even cold, hard facts won't ever settle the issue of "Smartest DO school in the nation" b/c there will always be some rationalizations, excuses, etc.

    That's not to say that I'm not still interested in knowing the cold, hard facts.... (You gotta be at least somewhat competitive to be in med school, right?)
     
  31. Sweaty Paul

    Sweaty Paul Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    double elle,

    Thank you for your support. You know how I am totally incapable of offending anyone or of having strong opinions.;)

    Sweaty
     
  32. s42brown

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!

    :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p
     
  33. s42brown

    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2002
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!KCOM is the best!

    :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :p :laugh:
     
  34. Fenrezz

    Fenrezz AT Stills Worst Nightmare
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2002
    Messages:
    1,072
    Likes Received:
    0
    I bet OSU's anatomy professors can beat up KCOM's anatomy professors!
     
  35. bigtony

    bigtony Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2002
    Messages:
    28
    Likes Received:
    0
    This thread is very similar to the "I grok spock" episode on Saturday Night Live.
    You guys get a life.
     
  36. DOSouthpaw

    DOSouthpaw Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2002
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    1
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    Just to throw in Pikeville's stuff. Our average MCAT scores are probably the lowest of all of the schools 21-22, but here is the cool thing.

    Our average first time pass rate for step I boards is 89.6%. Considering that our average MCAT scores are so much lower than any other school, it is amazing that our pass rate for boards is only .4 percent lower than the national average.

    Another thing to consider, only .01% of students nationwide never pass step I, so unless there is something wrong with you, who cares, you will pass eventually.

    Later!
     
  37. ribcrackindoc

    ribcrackindoc Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2002
    Messages:
    93
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sweaty Paul: You're still wrong, there is irony there because I've spent a total of maybe 15 minutes "investigating" this subject which I'm interested in and you've also spent probably 15 minutes telling me why I shouldn't be investigating it and telling me what I "should" spent my time doing. this thread is a waste of time to you, not to me, and we've contributed equal time and effort to it. That's just humorous. I ask again, who are you to tell me what I should spend my time doing?
    and here's some more irony for you, first you say:
    "Start studying and spend your extra time figuring a way to help the health care crisis by getting PLI (Personal Liability Insurance) reform passed and Tort reform passed."
    Then you say:
    "It certainly was no comment on how you or anyone else who has taken part in this debate uses their time."
    MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!!


    Double Elle: "Okay - responding to each of my sentences should keep you busy for the next few minutes or so." I'll humor you.

    You called me a "shmuck" Oh that's very big of you to resort to namecalling. At least speel schmuck korrectly if you're gunna yooz it

    "People have only added to the discussion on this topic...and you have taken offense to almost every single one of them." You're wrong, people have not added anything to the discussion on this topic, they've only criticized the very fact that it is a topic.

    "I simply enjoy seeing the different opinions. You, however, seem to NOT enjoy the different opinions, rather you prefer to pick apart every single thing a person says. " There haven't been any different opinions, only UNPROVOKED criticism which has been off the subject!!!!!!!! I'm only picking apart the rediculous comments people write, I've complimented and agreed with the correct and well put thoughts. The comments I've picked apart have been judgemental and assumptive. Why can't you liberal whack jobs (now that's name calling!) just let this topic be without forcing your idealistic views on it?:p

    I'm sure this will be to your disappointment, but I'm done quibbling with you all. No matter how unfounded your coming comments may be, I will not respond. I say this just because I don't want you to get the idea that you have stumped or outwitted me.

    On a higher note, you will be excellent physicians one day coming from Kirksville. I hope you remain idealistic and live the life you told the KCOM admissions committee you hoped to live someday. If you do, you will indeed better the already impressive field of osteopathic medicine, and make great contributions to the communities you serve.

    Take care all ;)
     
  38. Sweaty Paul

    Sweaty Paul Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2001
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    ribcrackindoc,

    I tried being nice. I admitted when I was wrong. I tried to restate my thoughts on the issue at hand and what I really meant. You ignored all that.

    You still failed to understand that a critique of one of your ideas is not a critique of you. I pity what years 3 and 4 will be like for you let alone residency with that attitude.

    I've made up my mind. Do whatever you want. Continue with your rankings that mean nothing. Let me and others who are concerned about serious issues take care of the areas of substance that will affect physicians, patient care, and research. When I need to know which hotel chain is number one I'll contact you.

    By the way, I for one am glad your no longer responding to this thread, because you are far to sharp a card for me to keep up with in an open discussion.


    Sweaty Paul
     
  39. dmustud

    dmustud New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2002
    Messages:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Actually, the NBOME score report says that *most* scores fall between 200 and 800. No maximum score is listed. Not even what percentage of scores would be between 200 and 800, only the term *most*. Most surely does not mean all.

    Just as the USMLE score report reads that most USMLE scores fall between 144 and 288.

    If you don't trust my information, email or call the NBOME. Scores do exist >800.
     
  40. John DO

    John DO A.T. Still Endowed Chair
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, only strong odor :laugh:

    Sorry, Sweaty, I couldn't resist! How are rotations? You have been missed around here!
     
  41. RockandRolldoc

    RockandRolldoc Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    MCAT scores... grades.... whatever got you into medical school means nothing. You're in medical school now.... what kind of doctor are you gonna be? To say one medical school is better than others means nothing to me... my mcat scores and grades were high for all D.O. schools Am I going to be a better doctor because I scored in the 30's on my MCAT? An even more rediculous question is this: Is my education gonna suffer because my school doesn't have the highest MCAT average? Let me tell you all something.... Biochemistry doesn't change if you learn it in florida, philly, pikeville, etc--neither does OMM, Anatomy. The only thing changes is the weather and the way people describe soft drinks, ( I say Pop ). .... I chose the school that's going to make me happy-- and is currently making me happy. Furthermore, any of you who are under the illusions that your first 2 years of med school are what's going to have the biggest influence on the way you practice medicine are going to be very dissapointed when you escape the security of the classroom and go out into the world.
    Can we stop having these counter-productive posts and get some intelligent threads in here.... we should be embarrassed. Here is a topic to start some discussion on..... " lymphatic manipulation... what are all of your thoughts on it?"


    " Since light travels faster than sound, some people appear bright until they speak."
     
  42. kirkdo

    kirkdo Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2002
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    By the way MCAT scores and Undergrad grades do not correlate to your Med school grades and COMLEX scores.
    The best osteopathic school is debatable since there is no official rankings.
     
  43. Amra

    Amra A Quiet Voice of Reason
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'll second the good point by Nic.

    Gawd, please... shouldn't everyone have left the "I'm better than everyone else" attitude in the kiddy dorms at your respective undergrad school? Like MCAT scores and winning the 6th grade science fair - it really doesn't matter anymore...

    Beside the nurses kicking our asses (even mine) just remember that we all use the same billing codes too (ya know, the $ thing).

    can't we all just talk about coarcation or something useful?

    -A
     
  44. RockandRolldoc

    RockandRolldoc Senior Member
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2002
    Messages:
    376
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hey Brian,


    Don't knock the sixth grade science fair. I used to be one hell of a diorama maker back in the day. Well actually, that's not true, my mom used to help me. But anyway, I think i'm gonna ask Dr. Patterson if I can get some OPP extra credit if I make a Diorama of the scene where AT Still fell off his horse and got a hernia. Or better yet, I'll do a scene where he's digging up all the old indian corpses to study anatomy. Got any old shoeboxes for me to borrow?????

    --RAZZ
     
  45. bustinbooty

    bustinbooty Senior Member
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm gonna have to disagree with this. All the stats have shown that there is a HIGH correlation between MCAT scores and ACADEMIC success in the first years of medical school. (That is probably the reason why they still use those silly scores to decide who gets in) Does it mean that people with low MCAT scores can't be successful? ......no. It isn't impossible to defy statistics....it's all just numbers and averages.
     
  46. Amra

    Amra A Quiet Voice of Reason
    10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2001
    Messages:
    471
    Likes Received:
    0
    dude.......... shouldn't we both be studying for ummm... biochem?

    I just came from being the sounding board at an open house here at NSUCOM - so I have some input on MCAT, etc (although this should probably be in the PRE-DO forum)...

    [extreme nutshell version as I need to study]
    GPA tests your ability to handle a workload.
    MCAT test your deductive thinking ability and data interpretation under pressure (time)

    Both are good pre-req's for being a good doc (atleast the SCIENCE part of the career not the ART).

    Off to purines and ox damage and everything else biochem...

    -Amra

    P.S. I won a science fair too once... don't remember what the hell i did yet that was back in the early 80's... something with plants though (no, not those homegrown "plants" either :eek: )
     
  47. rotatores

    rotatores Senior Member
    15+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2002
    Messages:
    602
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    It seems to be a common misconception that certain DO schools have 99-100% pass rate on the USMLE. This is quite the accomplishment. Like JohnDO stated this would place this particular school above all osteopathic and allopathic med schools.

    Can we eventually see some concrete data on this please.
     
  48. San_Juan_Sun

    San_Juan_Sun Professor of Life
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2002
    Messages:
    715
    Likes Received:
    2
    Status:
    Resident [Any Field]
    And therein lies the problem: nothing official is put out. (At least that I have seen.)

    In some respects I wish there was, and in some, I'm glad there isn't. In the end, the best DO school is the one that wants me. :)
     
  49. Homunculus

    Homunculus SDN Caveman Administrator
    Moderator Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    289
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    i didn't drudge through the first few pages of posts, so forgive me if this has been addressed already.

    the problem with the stellar USMLE pass rates is this-- the USMLE is not required, so not everyone takes it. It's a self selecting process-- those that wouldn't pass the USMLE simply don't take it. if the USMLE was required like the COMLEX is, i'm sure the pass/fail rates would be similar.

    take it easy

    homonculus
     
  50. John DO

    John DO A.T. Still Endowed Chair
    7+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    360
    Likes Received:
    0
    Homonculus,

    As are most things in life, the situation is a little more complicated than you assume. Just because a student didn't take the USMLE doesn't mean he couldn't have passed it. Many highly qualified students don't take the USMLE because they don't see the point (technicaly, both exams are equivalent and equally accepted as stipulated by Congress this past year, although in practice this is not always true), because they can't afford it, or because they just don't want want to sit through another exam, among other reasons.

    The most important reason the most intelligent students may not take the USMLE: THEY DON"T WANT TO! You operate under the assumption that D.O. students are only D.O. students because they couldn't be M.D.s. If a stellar applicant CHOSE a D.O. school, why would s/he not then also CHOOSE an AOA residency, rather than ACGME. This is not to say that stellar students don't choose both and that the rest of us average students don't choose both, but only to point out that blanket observations such as you have made cannot be substantiated. Your statement could just as well be supported if the reverse were postulated: the numbers are artificially low because the smartest D.O. students chose a D.O. school, so why would they then would they take the USLME? Only the wanna-be-MD-DO students would take the USMLE and they represent the "bottom of the barrel" since they couldn't get in to an MD school, right?

    See the lack of logic implied here?

    :rolleyes:
     
  51. Homunculus

    Homunculus SDN Caveman Administrator
    Moderator Physician 10+ Year Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2000
    Messages:
    3,528
    Likes Received:
    289
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    hmmmm

    I'm operating under assumptions eh? Geez man, chill out a little. Seeing that i go to a DO school, I think i can comment on what i've seen. I never said all people who don't take the USMLE couldn't pass it-- people who plan on taking the USMLE are people who have a very very good chance of passing it. It's self selecting-- what student would take the USMLE if they didn't think they could pass it? how many people who fail the COMLEX take the USMLE? Or more importantly, how many borderline people take the USMLE? i doubt many do. Basically you are not getting an accurate sampling of the students, you are getting a self selected group of people who WANT to take the USMLE. No one i know of would pay to fail on an optional exam. That is my point.

    and by the way I did well on the COMLEX, and I didn't take the USMLE.

    take it easy

    homonculus
     

Share This Page