The Ultimate 2020 Election / Politics / General News Thread

[Aether2000]

There is no "booming economy". There is a booming stockmarket, artificially being supported by low interest rates. The economy is in shambles with many major retailers in bankruptcy and many more heading that way. We now have more socialism from Trump than any other president since FDR in amassing debt to the tune of the entire GDP of the country. There is a 3:1 Democrat:Republican ratio for requests for mail in ballots in several states- this spells disaster for Trump in 2 months.

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[BLADEMDA]

There is no "booming economy". There is a booming stockmarket, artificially being supported by low interest rates. The economy is in shambles with many major retailers in bankruptcy and many more heading that way. We now have more socialism from Trump than any other president since FDR in amassing debt to the tune of the entire GDP of the country. There is a 3:1 Democrat:Republican ratio for requests for mail in ballots in several states- this spells disaster for Trump in 2 months.

There was a booming economy prior to March 2020. If Trump wins re-election this economy will return by the Spring of 2021. The stock market will also be at new highs if Trump wins re-election. I expect 20% increase in the S and P 500 by April 2021 if Trump wins re-election.

However, the reality is Trump is way behind Biden in almost every battle ground state. It is likely Trump loses all the battle ground states 5 days after the polls close. So, we do agree that Trump is likely to lose the FINAL tally in November.

 

[vector2]

Biden election is far from a sure thing. Currently the national margin is 7-8% but historically this narrows going into November. If trump can get the margin to 5% or less then he can still pull off an EC victory if he holds in FL, NC, PA and AZ

One of the more interesting parts of a trump victory will be the commentary on how well our current system serves democracy and the will of people....because almost certainly if he wins it will mark the election of a president who only has 40% approval and who will have lost the margin by 3-4% and raw popular vote by 4 million people.

 

[chessknt]

Biden election is far from a sure thing. Currently the national margin is 7-8% but historically this narrows going into November. If trump can get the margin to 5% or less then he can still pull off an EC victory if he holds in FL, NC, PA and AZ

View attachment 317719

One of the more interesting parts of a trump victory will be the commentary on how well our current system serves democracy and the will of people....because almost certainly if he wins it will mark the election of a president who only has 40% approval and who will have lost the margin by 3-4% and raw popular vote by 4 million people.

If he wins I believe there is a real chance of civil war. Trump has gotten so much of this country to revile him that if he manipulates the legal process to eek out a win or this is any doubt of a legitimate victory on his side then people will take to the streets in a way that makes the racial riot/protests we've been seeing look like the bush league. Between the rubber stamp Senate and the partisan judiciary nobody has faith in the checks and balances of our government anymore.

 

[vector2]

Trump calls on Fox News to fire reporter who confirmed some parts of Atlantic story

For years, Fox News has worked to undermine and discredit the work of other news organizations that have reported damning details about President Trump and his administration. But on Friday, something unusual happened: The network turned a skeptical eye toward reporting from its own correspondent.

www.cnn.com

 

[vector2]

I got a bit carried away in what I wrote, and I am no Biden fan either. The guy is demented and I wouldn’t operate on him without at least talking to his POA. It’s obvious that both candidates are bad. But What Trump and his crew are doing is unprecedented IMO, at least in last 30-40 years. The divisive rhetoric will only make things worse. One thing is for sure, regardless of who wins, we will see more chaos and division. We really need a third party who actually focuses on issues than culture war.

I'm glad you agree that what trump and co are doing is unprecedented, and indeed it reaches a level of illegality and corruption that hasn't been seen since Nixon. But as I parse the rest of your post, is it safe to say you're going to vote third party? If so, then like many others on this forum and around the country who also plan to do so, it doesn't really matter if you think what trump is doing is unprecedented, because it will have had no consequences .

We very clearly live in a time where unlike during Watergate where members of Nixon's own party eventually drew a line...there is no line now. The GOP is the personality cult of trump, and it's reached the point where even if Mitch, Lindsey, John Kelly, HR McMaster and the senior administration officials who heard trump call dead veterans losers all went on the record, I doubt it would matter that much.

So where does that leave us? We have the opposition party whose members are going to have a plurality in the national vote, but independents, swing voters, or those who vote third party will be the deciders- not necessarily the deciders of the election result- but the deciders of whether America came together as a majority to say that no matter whether you lean left, right or center, a politician like trump does not represent our shared values. This is a message that gets sent if trump loses 60-40, not 48-46-6. If in 1992 you went to cast your vote for Perot, god bless. Even if you disagreed with their politics, I don't think anyone would have said that Clinton or HW were going to actively destroy our institutions . That is simply not the case in 2020, and speaking for myself, up until about 3 or 4 months ago I was heavily considering writing in Bernie for the general. Now, there is no choice but to hold my nose and vote Biden, because in my opinion staying home or voting third party will do a huge disservice to democracy and the rule of law this go around.

 

[DrZzZz]

I'm glad you agree that what trump and co are doing is unprecedented, and indeed it reaches a level of illegality and corruption that hasn't been seen since Nixon. But as I parse the rest of your post, is it safe to say you're going to vote third party? If so, then like many others on this forum and around the country, it doesn't really matter if you think what trump is doing is unprecedented, because it will have had no consequences .

We very clearly live in a time where unlike during Watergate where members of Nixon's own party eventually drew a line...there is no line now. The GOP is the personality cult of trump, and it's reached the point where even if Mitch, Lindsey, John Kelly, HR McMaster and the senior administration officials who heard trump call dead veterans losers all went on the record, I doubt it would matter that much.

So where does that leave us? We have the opposition party whose members are going to have a plurality in the national vote, but independents, swing voters, or those who vote third party will be the deciders- not necessarily the deciders of the election result- but the deciders of whether America came together as a majority to say that no matter whether you lean left, right or center, a politician like trump does not represent our shared values. This is a message that gets sent if trump loses 60-40, not 48-46. If it's 1992 and you want to cast your vote for Perot, god bless. Even if you disagree with their politics, I don't think anyone could say that Clinton or HW were going to actively destroy our institutions . That is simply not the case in 2020, and my opinion is that staying home or voting third party does a huge disservice to democracy and the rule of law this go around.

I voted third party in 2016 to "show my disgust" with the R and D candidates. As much as I feel the same about 2020 in terms of the candidates, I agree wholeheartedly with what you're saying and will not be "wasting" my vote on a third party candidate this year.

 

[DarkHorizon]

I'm glad you agree that what trump and co are doing is unprecedented, and indeed it reaches a level of illegality and corruption that hasn't been seen since Nixon. But as I parse the rest of your post, is it safe to say you're going to vote third party? If so, then like many others on this forum and around the country, it doesn't really matter if you think what trump is doing is unprecedented, because it will have had no consequences .

We very clearly live in a time where unlike during Watergate where members of Nixon's own party eventually drew a line...there is no line now. The GOP is the personality cult of trump, and it's reached the point where even if Mitch, Lindsey, John Kelly, HR McMaster and the senior administration officials who heard trump call dead veterans losers all went on the record, I doubt it would matter that much.

So where does that leave us? We have the opposition party whose members are going to have a plurality in the national vote, but independents, swing voters, or those who vote third party will be the deciders- not necessarily the deciders of the election result- but the deciders of whether America came together as a majority to say that no matter whether you lean left, right or center, a politician like trump does not represent our shared values. This is a message that gets sent if trump loses 60-40, not 48-46. If it's 1992 and you want to cast your vote for Perot, god bless. Even if you disagree with their politics, I don't think anyone could say that Clinton or HW were going to actively destroy our institutions . That is simply not the case in 2020, and my opinion is that staying home or voting third party does a huge disservice to democracy and the rule of law this go around.

To answer your question, I would begrudgingly vote for Joe Biden and the Democrat establishment, but I have already stated above what I think of him.

Here’s my reasoning, Trump has actively poured gas on a burning fire. I really do believe that we’re getting close to a civil war. He promises to be the law and order guy and says he’ll curb the protests and riots. Well, what’s he gonna do then that he can’t do now? And the answer likely is using the military to mow the protestors. However, I think that will not suppress protests but will in fact cause more chaos. Just to keep the normalcy, I would vote for Joe Biden.

However, a similar argument can be made if Trump loses. He’s already said the only way he will lose is if dems cheat. His base firmly believes this. Who’s to say that they won’t be out in the streets if Trump loses. He’s already setting them up.

Either way we’re doomed, but it’s more likely with a trump victory and hence I’ll vote for Biden. There’s way too much division on extreme ends of both sides right now.

 

[pjl]

I find it telling that my father, who is 68 years old and has never voted for a single democrat in his life, and frequently argues policy with his democratic friends, will be voting for Biden this election. He is dedicated to the party enough to have been approached and looked into being a state senator in 2 states.
I don’t see Trump standing a chance when he is losing those voters.

I do, as generally a “republican” leaning voter, feel saddened by the ballet we have provided ourselves with. At this point I would even vote for a rock that was listed as centrist, whether or not it was true, vs either alternative.

 

[Professor Khan]

There was a booming economy prior to March 2020. If Trump wins re-election this economy will return by the Spring of 2021. The stock market will also be at new highs if Trump wins re-election. I expect 20% increase in the S and P 500 by April 2021 if Trump wins re-election.

this level of delusion is truly incredible

I find it telling that my father, who is 68 years old and has never voted for a single democrat in his life, and frequently argues policy with his democratic friends, will be voting for Biden this election.

telling in the sense that conservatives and neoliberals are pretty much the same?

 

[Neopolymath]

I'm glad you agree that what trump and co are doing is unprecedented, and indeed it reaches a level of illegality and corruption that hasn't been seen since Nixon. But as I parse the rest of your post, is it safe to say you're going to vote third party? If so, then like many others on this forum and around the country who also plan to do so, it doesn't really matter if you think what trump is doing is unprecedented, because it will have had no consequences .

We very clearly live in a time where unlike during Watergate where members of Nixon's own party eventually drew a line...there is no line now. The GOP is the personality cult of trump, and it's reached the point where even if Mitch, Lindsey, John Kelly, HR McMaster and the senior administration officials who heard trump call dead veterans losers all went on the record, I doubt it would matter that much.

So where does that leave us? We have the opposition party whose members are going to have a plurality in the national vote, but independents, swing voters, or those who vote third party will be the deciders- not necessarily the deciders of the election result- but the deciders of whether America came together as a majority to say that no matter whether you lean left, right or center, a politician like trump does not represent our shared values. This is a message that gets sent if trump loses 60-40, not 48-46-6. If in 1992 you went to cast your vote for Perot, god bless. Even if you disagreed with their politics, I don't think anyone would have said that Clinton or HW were going to actively destroy our institutions . That is simply not the case in 2020, and speaking for myself, up until about 3 or 4 months ago I was heavily considering writing in Bernie for the general. Now, there is no choice but to hold my nose and vote Biden, because in my opinion staying home or voting third party will do a huge disservice to democracy and the rule of law this go around.

I have been saying this for months. Voting third party in this election is terrible to be frank.

 

[Aether2000]

I am an independent (41% of the electorate) but a third party vote is indeed a waste of a vote. Even though Trump boasts many redneck supporters around the country in swing states, hopefully there will be enough of a backlash against his narcissism, pathological lying, pandering to dictators, illegal and threatened illegal activities (encouraging people to double vote, encouraging physical violence against BLM protestors and in his Trump rallies, etc etc etc) and 4th grade level speech to finally turn the tide against his tyranny by tweet, harangues and extremism.

 

[Professor Khan]

I am an independent (41% of the electorate) but a third party vote is indeed a waste of a vote. Even though Trump boasts many redneck supporters around the country in swing states, hopefully there will be enough of a backlash against his narcissism, pathological lying, pandering to dictators, illegal and threatened illegal activities (encouraging people to double vote, encouraging physical violence against BLM protestors and in his Trump rallies, etc etc etc) and 4th grade level speech to finally turn the tide against his tyranny by tweet, harangues and extremism.

A third party vote is only a wasted vote if you are thinking short term

Long term, it would be nice to have an alternative to two parties full of warmongering idiots who are sycophants for the elites.

 

[chessknt]

A third party vote is only a wasted vote if you are thinking short term

Long term, it would be nice to have an alternative to two parties full of warmongering idiots who are sycophants for the elites.

There won't be a long term if Trump wins again that is why it is a waste (former third party voter here).

 

[Aether2000]

A third party has zero statistical chance of winning due to 48 states having a winner take all system of electors. This was not envisioned by the original writers of the document. In fact, the electors system of determining a president was a spur of the moment creation by 11 people during the time in the Constitutional Convention where all others were taking a vacation. Initially, electors were determined via proportional representation of the state legislature parties. Virginia was the first state to decide winner take all in this system during the time when Jefferson was running for president- Virginia did this to assure his election. Shortly thereafter, other states began adopting this system in retaliation for the actions of Virginia. The winner take all system also prevented the US House from being given power to elect the president as they did in 1800 and 1824 when there was no majority of electors supporting a candidate. In 1800 there actually was a majority of electoral and popular votes for Jefferson, but the electors screwed up when they cast their ballots by not specifying who was president and who was VP, causing a tie, and throwing the election into the House for the alternative election system where each state has 1 vote. In any case, with the winner take all system, it generally prevents elections being thrown into the House and results in very lopsided electoral college victories even when the will of the people is ignored in the popular vote.

 

[Professor Khan]

A third party has zero statistical chance of winning due to 48 states having a winner take all system of electors. This was not envisioned by the original writers of the document. In fact, the electors system of determining a president was a spur of the moment creation by 11 people during the time in the Constitutional Convention where all others were taking a vacation. Initially, electors were determined via proportional representation of the state legislature parties. Virginia was the first state to decide winner take all in this system during the time when Jefferson was running for president- Virginia did this to assure his election. Shortly thereafter, other states began adopting this system in retaliation for the actions of Virginia. The winner take all system also prevented the US House from being given power to elect the president as they did in 1800 and 1824 when there was no majority of electors supporting a candidate. In 1800 there actually was a majority of electoral and popular votes for Jefferson, but the electors screwed up when they cast their ballots by not specifying who was president and who was VP, causing a tie, and throwing the election into the House for the alternative election system where each state has 1 vote. In any case, with the winner take all system, it generally prevents elections being thrown into the House and results in very lopsided electoral college victories even when the will of the people is ignored in the popular vote.

A third party has zero chance of winning because of people like you who think a third party has zero chance of winning

 

[Aether2000]

History is not on your side Khan. There are no third party candidates that have won the presidency. Lincoln won in 1860 through the Republican party established in 1856 and supplanted the Whigs that year as the second place party. One of the two major parties last finished third in 1912. The only recent third party candidate to win one or more states was that bastion of logic and reason, the racist George Wallace in 1968 who that year won 5 southern states with a history of stark racism. Later Perot won 18.9% of the popular vote in 1992 and zero electoral votes. In 1996, Perot won 8% of the popular vote and zero electoral votes. While third party candidates can win in the House or Senate because they are not part of the winner take all elector system, they quickly define their loyalties to the Republican or Democrat party and caucus with them instead of remaining independent as a third party. But a third party president? Statistically it will not happen because of the winner take all system that guarantees the election to one of the two major parties in power.

 

[zero0]

A third party has zero chance of winning because of people like you who think a third party has zero chance of winning

Exactly, the change has to start somewhere. Both sides have become irreparably corrupt.

I won't spend time trying to convince anyone since these conversations are about as pointless as shouting at the wind but I will leave you with a quote from a prophet.

"A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices"

George Orwell

 

[vector2]

Exactly, the change has to start somewhere. Both sides have become irreparably corrupt.

I won't spend time trying to convince anyone since these conversations are about as pointless as shouting at the wind but I will leave you with a quote from a prophet.

"A people that elect corrupt politicians, imposters, thieves and traitors are not victims... but accomplices"

George Orwell

The change, if even possible, is going to start in the Congress, not the presidency. It is reassuring that people like Angus King or Bernie or Amash are able to make it there. To have a viable third party, you need enough people to run as say a democratic socialist D or libertarian R and then when there are enough of them they can caucus amongst themselves instead of caucusing with the Ds or Rs

 

[thinkorswim]

There was a booming economy prior to March 2020. If Trump wins re-election this economy will return by the Spring of 2021. The stock market will also be at new highs if Trump wins re-election. I expect 20% increase in the S and P 500 by April 2021 if Trump wins re-election.

I really don’t understand why Trump receives so much credit for the economy and why people think he’s well-suited to correct our current economic pain. GDP during Obama’s second term was 2.3%, and Trump had it at 2.5% before the pandemic. Obama saw unemployment peak at 10.2% and brought it down to 4.7% when he left office, and it continued to trend down to 3.5% under Trump. Wage growth and household income are about the same under Obama and Trump, but one could argue current growth (pre-pandemic) is more reflective of a tightening labor market rather than Trump’s tax cut.

The truth is, Trump hasn’t done much for our economy. He literally had one job and that was not to screw it up. And finally, I hope this goes without saying, I’m sure you know that the stock market is not the economy.

Trump v Obama: Who's made the economy fly? - BBC News

President Trump claims he has been responsible for the strongest US economy ever. What do the numbers show?

www.bbc.com

 

[Aether2000]

However Trump had no long term affiliation with the Republican party and Bernie did not run for president as a Democratic Socialist. They understood that one cannot become president except through the two major political parties. I personally think our system is absurd, encouraging extremism on both sides and a divide that has paralyzed the ability to effectively govern. But until the state legislatures (composed of 99% Republicans and Democrats) decide winner take all is unfair or until there is a Constitutional Amendment passed to eliminate the system of electors, we will always have this logjam. States with small populations certainly benefit from the elector system since their elector votes count proportionally more than larger population states. Southern states traditionally were very strong supporters of the elector system since they wielded significant national voting power based on their total population while at the same time suppressing the vote of their minorities.

 

[GA8314]

The silent majority is real. We'll see how things go on election day. I support Trump, but many people are afraid to say it given the vitriol from the left.

 

[2021Doctor]

This sends a clear message:

 

[raztes]

A vote for a democrat is a vote for universal healthcare and a massive pay cut. It’s also a vote for Harris who leads the state of CA, which is in awful wasteful disrepair. How do you vote for that? The socialistic, highly regulated californiazation of the US is imminent with a Democrat vote.

 

[Professor Khan]

A vote for a democrat is a vote for universal healthcare and a massive pay cut. It’s also a vote for Harris who leads the state of CA, which is in awful wasteful disrepair. How do you vote for that? The socialistic, highly regulated californiazation of the US is imminent with a Democrat vote.

If only a vote for the neoliberal democratic party really were a vote for socialism...

The silent majority is real. We'll see how things go on election day. I support Trump, but many people are afraid to say it given the vitriol from the left.

I don't support Trump at all (see how he retweeted a video of supporters saying "white power" and never apologized), but I love that he is fueling the collapse of America. This country in its current form sucks and deserves to go down in shambles.

 

[raztes]

Let’s also review hidin Biden’s tax plan:

- eliminate pretax 401k deductions (remember social security will be bankrupt in 5-10 years)
- increase corporate tax from 21 to 28 percent (deeply hurts those doctors who are a part of private practices)
- eliminate 137k max income on social security tax
- increase tax by 2-3 % for those earning over 400k (which by the way is very middle class when you have to pay massive student loans back to Uncle Sam)
- all this taxation will cost docs anywhere from 5-10k a month at least

- he plans to spend trillions on the environment at a time when the USA debt will be greater than its gdp, and not to mention massively expensive covid. Many articles written on how the climate change legislation is merely a moneymaker without actual results (sucks but it’s true)
- he plans to cut your pay with Medicare for all (which he flip flopped on from his nomination platform)
- you will never have your medical student debt forgiven since you make more than 150k (sanders and warrens forgiveness plans- which was only partial forgiveness in the first place)

So why do doctors love democrats so much? Blows my mind. You’ve worked hard your whole life to just let someone else (non medical politician) wastefully spend your hard earned income and determine your professions future

 

[DarkHorizon]

Let’s also review hidin Biden’s tax plan:

- eliminate pretax 401k deductions (remember social security will be bankrupt in 5-10 years)
- increase corporate tax from 21 to 28 percent (deeply hurts those doctors who are a part of private practices)
- eliminate 137k max income on social security tax
- increase tax by 2-3 % for those earning over 400k (which by the way is very middle class when you have to pay massive student loans back to Uncle Sam)
- all this taxation will cost docs anywhere from 5-10k a month at least

- he plans to spend trillions on the environment at a time when the USA debt will be greater than its gdp, and not to mention massively expensive covid. Many articles written on how the climate change legislation is merely a moneymaker without actual results (sucks but it’s true)
- he plans to cut your pay with Medicare for all (which he flip flopped on from his nomination platform)
- you will never have your medical student debt forgiven since you make more than 150k (sanders and warrens forgiveness plans- which was only partial forgiveness in the first place)

So why do doctors love democrats so much? Blows my mind. You’ve worked hard your whole life to just let someone else (non medical politician) wastefully spend your hard earned income and determine your professions future

Well, we do want an intact society. we can debate about all the stuff you mentioned above, but I’m afraid that a reelection of Trump will do irreparable damage to our society. His divisive rhetoric will get worse IMo, he may use military force to curb down his opposition. He’s already alluded to that. That’s bordering on dictatorship. At the very least, there will be more riots and protests and more civil unrest in the streets.

 

[GA8314]

If only a vote for the neoliberal democratic party really were a vote for socialism...



I don't support Trump at all (see how he retweeted a video of supporters saying "white power" and never apologized), but I love that he is fueling the collapse of America. This country in its current form sucks and deserves to go down in shambles.

Nice rhetoric.

 

[raztes]

Well, we do want an intact society. we can debate about all the stuff you mentioned above, but I’m afraid that a reelection of Trump will do irreparable damage to our society. His divisive rhetoric will get worse IMo, he may use military force to curb down his opposition. He’s already alluded to that. That’s bordering on dictatorship. At the very least, there will be more riots and protests and more civil unrest in the streets.

That’s the dem rhetoric they want you to believe- apparently it’s working. But they still put people like Bill Clinton on stage at the DNC who used to hang out with Jeffrey Epstein. So really the point you make about Trump is moot. Biden has also been implicated many times in racist beliefs (on video) and with sexual assault allegations. much of which has been swept under the rug by the media.

A conservative in the White House is 4 years to slow the progression into a leftist policial system is a must. Whereas if Biden elected much more leftist policies will be enacted more quickly and much to the detriment of physicians. We must protect against the wasteful Californiazation of the US.

 

[DarkHorizon]

That’s the dem rhetoric they want you to believe- apparently it’s working. But they still put people like Bill Clinton on stage at the DNC who used to hang out with Jeffrey Epstein. So really the point you make about Trump is moot. Biden has also been implicated many times in racist beliefs (on video) and with sexual assault allegations. much of which has been swept under the rug by the media.

A conservative in the White House is 4 years to slow the progression into a leftist policial system is a must. Whereas if Biden elected much more leftist policies will be enacted more quickly and much to the detriment of physicians. We must protect against the wasteful Californiazation of the US.

Sure, i can agree with you on number of these things. But I cannot vote for Donald Trump. I def lean more conservative than anything else, but Trump is a triple A jackass and completely incompetent for the job. He even knows it and is actively trolling all of us.

 

[2021Doctor]

Joe Biden’s pick of Sen. Kamala Harris as his Vice Presidential running mate on the Democratic party’s ticket to challenge Donald Trump for the White House should bolster the former vice president’s Medicare expansion proposal.

Biden is proposing to allow Americans between the ages of 60 and 64 the option of buying into Medicare, the federal health insurance program for the elderly. The proposal is considered less costly than earlier versions proposed by Democrats in the U.S. Senate to lower Medicare eligibility to as young as 55 or even 50.

In picking Harris, who is 55 years old, Biden has chosen someone who can speak to the target market of the proposal, which are men and women and minorities in particular, who are in their mid to late 50s and early 60s who have lost their jobs during the pandemic or those who have been unable to get subsidies to buy individual coverage under the Affordable Care Act.

How Kamala Harris Helps Biden’s ‘Medicare At 60’ Plan

Sen. Kamala Harris' selection as the Democratic Party's Vice Presidential nominee should help the Medicare at 60 proposal of Joe Biden.

www.forbes.com

The Medicare pay rate for anesthesiologists is a mere fraction of the current insurance pay rate. Based on the 2018 American Society of Anesthesiologists report, the national average insured conversion factor for anesthesia (the amount paid for a 15-minute time period of service) was $76.32. The current national Medicare conversion factor for anesthesia is $22.18, or only 29% of the 2018 overall mean commercial conversion factor.

MEDICARE FOR ALL and Anesthesiology - The anesthesia consultant

Medicare for All would decimate the specialty of physician anesthesiologists in America, and cause an exodus from the specialty of anesthesiology.

theanesthesiaconsultant.com

 

[AMEHigh]

Let’s also review hidin Biden’s tax plan:

- eliminate pretax 401k deductions (remember social security will be bankrupt in 5-10 years)
- increase corporate tax from 21 to 28 percent (deeply hurts those doctors who are a part of private practices)
- eliminate 137k max income on social security tax
- increase tax by 2-3 % for those earning over 400k (which by the way is very middle class when you have to pay massive student loans back to Uncle Sam)
- all this taxation will cost docs anywhere from 5-10k a month at least

- he plans to spend trillions on the environment at a time when the USA debt will be greater than its gdp, and not to mention massively expensive covid. Many articles written on how the climate change legislation is merely a moneymaker without actual results (sucks but it’s true)
- he plans to cut your pay with Medicare for all (which he flip flopped on from his nomination platform)
- you will never have your medical student debt forgiven since you make more than 150k (sanders and warrens forgiveness plans- which was only partial forgiveness in the first place)

So why do doctors love democrats so much? Blows my mind. You’ve worked hard your whole life to just let someone else (non medical politician) wastefully spend your hard earned income and determine your professions future

How will what you’re saying cost doctors 5-10k a month? I don’t even make 10k a month (net) from my regular job, so you’re saying that my income is going to go to zero if Biden is elected? That doesn’t seem to make sense.

But in general I’m ok with higher taxes for more benefits for society. When people are healthier, more educated, have roads to drive on, etc then we all benefit. I can’t say what my threshold would be though. However if I didn’t have to pay $400 a month for health insurance and instead it’s a tax on my salary and means more people are actually covered/have access then I’m ok with that. That’s just an example.

My state has a family leave act that is paid for by taxes. I’m happy to pay that tax even though I don’t have children. People who don’t lose their job due to having to take care of family benefits society as a whole.

I understand this is a fundamental difference for people.

 

[Aether2000]

There has always been a right wing hysteria over "someone out to get them" and the boogieman "taking their things". We heard the same tired balderdash when Carter, Clinton, and Obama were elected and guess what? It didn't happen. These infantile shrill screams of pain and suffering of the rich (Households in the top 1% made $426k in 2019, households in the top 2% made $244k) are hackneyed, and no longer capture the aspiration (nor support) of the masses, who now know they will never make anywhere near that much money in a year. What the masses do perceive is that our healthcare system in the US costs twice as much as nearly any other healthcare system, including European countries. No, the public is not getting their money's worth from our system, and it needs massive reform.

 

[deleted126335]

Joe Biden’s pick of Sen. Kamala Harris as his Vice Presidential running mate on the Democratic party’s ticket to challenge Donald Trump for the White House should bolster the former vice president’s Medicare expansion proposal.

Biden is proposing to allow Americans between the ages of 60 and 64 the option of buying into Medicare, the federal health insurance program for the elderly. The proposal is considered less costly than earlier versions proposed by Democrats in the U.S. Senate to lower Medicare eligibility to as young as 55 or even 50.

In picking Harris, who is 55 years old, Biden has chosen someone who can speak to the target market of the proposal, which are men and women and minorities in particular, who are in their mid to late 50s and early 60s who have lost their jobs during the pandemic or those who have been unable to get subsidies to buy individual coverage under the Affordable Care Act.

How Kamala Harris Helps Biden’s ‘Medicare At 60’ Plan

Sen. Kamala Harris' selection as the Democratic Party's Vice Presidential nominee should help the Medicare at 60 proposal of Joe Biden.

www.forbes.com

The Medicare pay rate for anesthesiologists is a mere fraction of the current insurance pay rate. Based on the 2018 American Society of Anesthesiologists report, the national average insured conversion factor for anesthesia (the amount paid for a 15-minute time period of service) was $76.32. The current national Medicare conversion factor for anesthesia is $22.18, or only 29% of the 2018 overall mean commercial conversion factor.

MEDICARE FOR ALL and Anesthesiology - The anesthesia consultant

Medicare for All would decimate the specialty of physician anesthesiologists in America, and cause an exodus from the specialty of anesthesiology.

theanesthesiaconsultant.com

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While Medicare for all would devastate anesthesiology, the fact is that healthcare systems would be forced to make up at least some of the difference via subsidies. If tomorrow all Anesthesiologists and CRNAs were told that their paychecks would be adjusted in line with the reduction of collections due to “Medicare for all” anyone who was near retirement age would walk. Lots of people would s
Reduce their lifestyle and financial obligations. ORs would t be able to provide nearly the same level of coverage...that would lead to subsidized pay in excess of collections to draw people back to work.

 

[vector2]

That’s the dem rhetoric they want you to believe- apparently it’s working. But they still put people like Bill Clinton on stage at the DNC who used to hang out with Jeffrey Epstein. So really the point you make about Trump is moot. Biden has also been implicated many times in racist beliefs (on video) and with sexual assault allegations. much of which has been swept under the rug by the media.

A conservative in the White House is 4 years to slow the progression into a leftist policial system is a must. Whereas if Biden elected much more leftist policies will be enacted more quickly and much to the detriment of physicians. We must protect against the wasteful Californiazation of the US.

Remind me again, which candidate has been endorsed repeatedly by Stormfront, Richard Spencer, David Duke, and every other white supremacist organization under the sun?

Which candidate has over 30 allegations of sexual misconduct? Which candidate cheated on his 1st wife with his 2nd, 2nd wife with his 3rd, and 3rd with two pornstars while concurrently bragging on tape how he grabs women by the p*ssy without asking?

Don't get me wrong, Biden has some things over the course of his long career that he has to answer for as well, but this whataboutism false equivalence on racism and sexism is bullsht and you know it.

 

[vector2]

Michael Cohen’s Tell-All Book: Trump Thought Black People Were ‘Too Stupid’ to Vote for Him

Trump’s former personal lawyer writes that Trump had a “low opinion of all Black folks.”

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Leon'sMom]

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

While Medicare for all would devastate anesthesiology, the fact is that healthcare systems would be forced to make up at least some of the difference via subsidies. If tomorrow all Anesthesiologists and CRNAs were told that their paychecks would be adjusted in line with the reduction of collections due to “Medicare for all” anyone who was near retirement age would walk. Lots of people would s
Reduce their lifestyle and financial obligations. ORs would t be able to provide nearly the same level of coverage...that would lead to subsidized pay in excess of collections to draw people back to work.

Why would they need to subsidize pay? What else are all these people going to go do for money?

 

[deleted126335]

Why would they need to subsidize pay? What else are all these people going to go do for money?

Because many people work really hard because of the big pay check. If the big pay check disappears...I will work less or not at all. Have fun running your ORs with a lot less anesthesia.

 

[HemeOncHopeful19]

Because many people work really hard because of the big pay check. If the big pay check disappears...I will work less or not at all. Have fun running your ORs with a lot less anesthesia.

I’m sure the air traffic controllers felt the same way back in the day. If the government is the only payer in town I’m sure they’ll come up with something. Maybe even call it “H1-Anesthesia” visas.

 

[Southpaw]

If America can get by with cut rate anesthesia, then so be it. We will all go do something else. We’re smart people. And med students can figure out another field to enter. I don’t think America should ‘vote for Trump’ (which won’t achieve the desired result anyway) to prop up a broken health system for another few years. That’s stupid.

I spent the weekend in the rural SE. Lots of confederate flags and Trump/Pence signs in areas of the country with high poverty, no jobs, poor whites, and no Medicaid expansion (Republican governors....). My thoughts? These people must be racist, because they sure aren’t smart.

 

[Southpaw]

My personal feeling is we will all have very well paying jobs for as long as we want them.

 

[deleted126335]

My personal feeling is we will all have very well paying jobs for as long as we want them.

Agree...But they are very likely to be less well paying going forward.

 

[Southpaw]

Agree...But they are very likely to be less well paying going forward.

Agree. But I believe paycuts won’t be isolated to anesthesia. And I don’t believe for a second it’ll have anything to do with Joe Biden or his plans. @pgg posted the graphs for the admin bloat we all live and experience. That’s a lot of powerful mouths to feed.

 

[BLADEMDA]

While the ultimate goal of the Democrat Socialists (Vector 2's favorite group) is a 100% single payer system that isn't the Biden administration's goal during his first (and only) 4 years. Instead, Biden wants a public option on the exchange (not Medicare) to compete against the private insurers and he wants an early buy-in to Medicare for those 60 years and older. Even though I am voting for Trump I see no reason to distort Biden's healthcare ambitions for his first term in office.

What I don't like about Biden's agenda are the following:

1. Massive tax hikes across the board
2. Massive spending increases across the board
3. Huge Increase in Regulations which will lower GDP
4. Support for the few hundred transgender Americans at the expense of normal heterosexuals, e.g. allowing a male to compete against women

I don't see Biden's proposals as shoring up our existing entitlement, but, rather as expanding entitlements to new groups across the board. For a nation already almost bankrupt these proposals are pure madness and irresponsible. Sadly. Trump has been fiscally irresponsible as well during his first term in office but at least he hasn't expanded the government handouts.

Where Joe Biden stands on the biggest 2020 issues

Our policy team breaks down all of the presidential candidate’s proposals on the biggest issues driving the 2020 race.

www.politico.com

 

[Splenda88]

What is happening in states like AZ, MN and IA?


It seems like there have been a swing in the electorate in these states for the past decade... I am very familiar with AZ and it used to be a solid republican state. However, I don't see an instance in which Trump can win AZ this election. In fact, they are already pulling ads out of AZ.

On the other hand, MN used to be a solid democratic state. While it still learning a little bit left, I predict it will be a swing state in 2024.

Iowa has been a toss up state in the past, now the state is slightly leaning republican, and I think it will be a solid republican state in the next election. I also think Ohio is heading this way.

 

[Splenda88]

While the ultimate goal of the Democrat Socialists (Vector 2's favorite group) is a 100% single payer system that isn't the Biden administration's goal during his first (and only) 4 years. Instead, Biden wants a public option on the exchange (not Medicare) to compete against the private insurers and he wants an early buy-in to Medicare for those 60 years and older. Even though I am voting for Trump I see no reason to distort Biden's healthcare ambitions for his first term in office.

What I don't like about Biden's agenda are the following:

1. Massive tax hikes across the board
2. Massive spending increases across the board
3. Huge Increase in Regulations which will lower GDP
4. Support for the few hundred transgender Americans at the expense of normal heterosexuals, e.g. allowing a male to compete against women

I don't see Biden's proposals as shoring up our existing entitlement, but, rather as expanding entitlements to new groups across the board. For a nation already almost bankrupt these proposals are pure madness and irresponsible. Sadly. Trump has been fiscally irresponsible as well during his first term in office but at least he hasn't expanded the government handouts.

Where Joe Biden stands on the biggest 2020 issues

Our policy team breaks down all of the presidential candidate’s proposals on the biggest issues driving the 2020 race.

www.politico.com

The same things have been said about every democrat since I have been watching US politics. Remember Clinton and Obama!

 

[pgg]

I'm glad you agree that what trump and co are doing is unprecedented, and indeed it reaches a level of illegality and corruption that hasn't been seen since Nixon. But as I parse the rest of your post, is it safe to say you're going to vote third party? If so, then like many others on this forum and around the country who also plan to do so, it doesn't really matter if you think what trump is doing is unprecedented, because it will have had no consequences .

We very clearly live in a time where unlike during Watergate where members of Nixon's own party eventually drew a line...there is no line now. The GOP is the personality cult of trump, and it's reached the point where even if Mitch, Lindsey, John Kelly, HR McMaster and the senior administration officials who heard trump call dead veterans losers all went on the record, I doubt it would matter that much.

So where does that leave us? We have the opposition party whose members are going to have a plurality in the national vote, but independents, swing voters, or those who vote third party will be the deciders- not necessarily the deciders of the election result- but the deciders of whether America came together as a majority to say that no matter whether you lean left, right or center, a politician like trump does not represent our shared values. This is a message that gets sent if trump loses 60-40, not 48-46-6. If in 1992 you went to cast your vote for Perot, god bless. Even if you disagreed with their politics, I don't think anyone would have said that Clinton or HW were going to actively destroy our institutions . That is simply not the case in 2020, and speaking for myself, up until about 3 or 4 months ago I was heavily considering writing in Bernie for the general. Now, there is no choice but to hold my nose and vote Biden, because in my opinion staying home or voting third party will do a huge disservice to democracy and the rule of law this go around.

Regarding 3rd party votes hurting America -

A 3rd party vote outside a swing state doesn't hurt either Biden or Trump.

A 3rd party vote is a protest. Protests have value.

A 3rd party vote for president doesn't mean one can't cast other meaningful votes on the same ballot for federal, state, and local candidates.

I won't vote for either Trump/Pence or Biden/Harris for all of these reasons. If I was a voter in PA or even FL then I might reconsider. At this point my grandest hope for the election is that opposite parties control the Senate and presidency.

 

[Splenda88]

A 3rd party vote outside a swing state doesn't hurt either Biden or Trump.

A 3rd party vote is a protest. Protests have value.

A 3rd party vote for president doesn't mean one can't cast other meaningful votes on the same ballot for federal, state, and local candidates.

I won't vote for either Trump/Pence or Biden/Harris for all of these reasons. If I was a voter in PA or even FL then I might reconsider. At this point my grandest hope for the election is that opposite parties control the Senate and presidency.

A lot of us are hoping for that outcome... But we all know if Trump wins, the senate will stay republican.

 

[gassyclimber]

Unless there were a massive 3rd party, I don’t see it as a significant protest vehicle. It will get no attention otherwise. In this election, what will matter is the margin of victory, both EC and popular.

While my taxes will increase surely under Biden, my protest is against an awful human being and his swamp. At least my taxes might actually help the country rather than line Trump family pockets. My vote is not a swing vote in California, but it is important in the popular vote tally that Trump will cry voter fraud to undermine unfavorable results.