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- Dec 25, 2002
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My cousin is applying or dental schools next year and showed me this site- I was perusing through some posts and just had to put in my 0.02. I am a graduate of UOP School of Dentistry and have realized one thing...
<b>Thank GOD I went to UOP.</b> Why is that? Here are some questions I am often asked about UOP.
1) <b> Are you ready in 3 years to goto GP? (general practice) </b>
A: YES. How many schools do you get to perform multiple crowns, bridges, posterior root canals, veneers, posterior composites, AND implants?? I am sure there are VERY few- but did they do it in <b>three years</b>? The key here is that UOP has ONLY 2 specialty programs- Ortho & OMFS. If there's a difficult procedure to do- you cannot simply transfer it to a post graduate- <b>you have to do it</b> (posterior root canals, biopsies, perio surgery, etc...). You realize that this is a HUGE plus when you graduate. For if you're a GP- you feel comfy doing these procedures and keep the patient (and $$) in house instead of sending them away. And for those of you in California, if you're applying for associateships, many GPs ask that you be good with endos- as a UOP grad you'll def be ready for this.
2) <b>What is the tuition? </b>
A: HUGE. Yes, <b>THE</b> major drawback- if you took full loans you'd be in probably over $210K worth of debt. But you're going into a profession where this is not hard to pay off. I have some friends at the significantly cheaper UCSF- one was my fraternity brother in college- and in the end we agree...we both got what we paid for. Every penny I spent at UOP was well spent. Come time for boards, etc..you'll realize that the administration bends backwards to help you.
3) <b>Seriously is it worth the tuition? </b> (I always get asked twice)
A: YES. How many people from 4 year dental schools go onto GPR or AEGD residencies? Lots. How many from UOP? A very small handful. So think about it- you spend four years in dental school, and then go onto a one year post grad residency. A UOP student who goes out on his/her own after 3 years....think of the two <b>extra</b> years a UOP grad has out in practice- the tuition question becomes a little moot.
4) <b>How can you compare UOP to other schools? </b>
A: My cousin graduated from Columbia and I heard everything from his perspective (along with some freinds of his). The complaints they had were legit- but I would never hear them at UOP. It's great to come from a school where politics of an entire hospital don't dictate your education. Smaller private schools
have this advantage- you do not get mired in interdepartmental messes and screw ups. The sad thing is- Columbia is so huge- it's terribly organized. It's too easy for administrators to blame disorganization on 'the system.' And who pays in the end? The student. Disorganization was a way of life for my cousin- he got used to it. But why do you have to??? And let's not even talk about NYU (IMO, it was warned last time during it's accreditation...which should scare you.....) Now I know why SO SO many people drop out of that place.
Oh yeah- I also have some good friends at BU, Tufts, & Baylor....keep in touch with your undergrad friends- it'll be great to share experiences.
5) <b>How can they compress 4 years of education into 3 years?</b>
A: All dental schools were at one time 3 year programs (70's)- UOP was the lone hold out on returning to 4 yr status. There is of course a shorter vacation period and high stress levels- <b>ESPECIALLY 1st YEAR.</b> Also, UOP students (who are very proficient with head/neck anatomy/physio) know little about the extremities- other than what's useful for board exams. I told my friend at UConn I wish I knew more about medical stuff- and he replied- "WHY?? You won't need to know lobules of the liver later on!! I'd rather know how to prep teeth and generate cash flow for my practice!!" This is both true and untrue- as health professionals- we do need to be familiar with all aspects of a patients health. That is perhaps one of the main drawbacks of UOP- a smaller exposure to medicine. Don't get me wrong- as it is FAR from non-existent- but compared to school where you share classes with med students- it's def less.
6) <b>Research? </b>
A: I believe UOP won the ADA research award in 2001. And Invisalign has its roots at UOP. But research is not UOP's goal- and they tell you so upfront. Graduating good GP's is. But don't let that stop you- for MANY profs engage in research- opportunities do exist if you're interested.
7) <b>Specialties? </b>
A: Everyone interested in a specialty has good help in attaining their goals. Endo is perhaps the hardest specialty to enter as a new graduate- because UOP students are so proficient in root canals, many have no trouble getting into post grad endo residencies. (rotary system is a way of life for us- unlike most school who use hand files only- this is also why UOP grads keep endos in house, they are good at them) As for other specialties, the department heads are known around the US and have great connections- YOU just need to get on the ball and start early (research with a prof, PASS applictaions. letters of rec, CV) It's like applying for dental school all over again.
8) <b>Was first year that bad?</b>
A: YES. I don't know if I'd ever do it again. And for the 1 or 2 who repeat UOP's first year- they are SAINTS. Or martyrs, you decide. The price is big- long days at school completing lab work...long nights studying for anatomy, biochem, etc...This goes back to the 3 year question? UOP students in their first year study biochem, anatomy, etc- while at the same time cutting teeth and impressing, etc. Most schools just make your first year a didactic experience.
9) <b>Board success? National and State?</b>
A: Our class (2001) had 100% pass rate on Boards Part II- averages range in the mid to high 80's. This may be alarming to many of you who want to specialize- but remember this, most UOP students want to be GPs, those who want to specialize do very well on boards. California State boards, someone correct me- but 96% pass for UOP + UCSF and 75% for USC... I think this year it was 90% UOP & UCSF and 50% USC. (this is def the Cal boards' fault...)
Well this was lengthy and I felt I could write more- but I think you get the idea. In the end, you'll adjust to <b>WHEREVER</b> you are.
Many of you from California go to outside schools then come back for the Cal boards- do as you want..but it is harder. Try to stay in a California school no matter what. As you interview, I would ask a couple of questions: do you do a lot of lab work, do professors treat you well, does staff treat you well (i.e. such as Columbia, where the staff has a HUGE amount of easily annoyed New Yorkers- you won't win them over- they have seen the game played for years, ha ha)
Best question to ask a senior: <b>Would you donate money back to your school?</b> This tells you many things- think about it. Ask someone from NYU or SDOS this- then ask a UOP graduate. I guarantee you'll get vastly different answers. Ask what percentage of alumni donate back to the school- see the donation boards at schools. See what classes the donators come from. Again, think about why some schools have trouble getting alumni to even talk to the school again....let alone donate back.
Good luck to all of you in wherever your paths may take you- in the end we'll all be in the same profession. It's those of you on this board who care enough to discuss dental education issues- and it's you who will help and shape the future of our profession- we have a great future in store for us. Feel free to email me with any questions or comments. Oh and sorry if I slammed some schools- all done with no malice !!
😀
Take care!
<b>Thank GOD I went to UOP.</b> Why is that? Here are some questions I am often asked about UOP.
1) <b> Are you ready in 3 years to goto GP? (general practice) </b>
A: YES. How many schools do you get to perform multiple crowns, bridges, posterior root canals, veneers, posterior composites, AND implants?? I am sure there are VERY few- but did they do it in <b>three years</b>? The key here is that UOP has ONLY 2 specialty programs- Ortho & OMFS. If there's a difficult procedure to do- you cannot simply transfer it to a post graduate- <b>you have to do it</b> (posterior root canals, biopsies, perio surgery, etc...). You realize that this is a HUGE plus when you graduate. For if you're a GP- you feel comfy doing these procedures and keep the patient (and $$) in house instead of sending them away. And for those of you in California, if you're applying for associateships, many GPs ask that you be good with endos- as a UOP grad you'll def be ready for this.
2) <b>What is the tuition? </b>
A: HUGE. Yes, <b>THE</b> major drawback- if you took full loans you'd be in probably over $210K worth of debt. But you're going into a profession where this is not hard to pay off. I have some friends at the significantly cheaper UCSF- one was my fraternity brother in college- and in the end we agree...we both got what we paid for. Every penny I spent at UOP was well spent. Come time for boards, etc..you'll realize that the administration bends backwards to help you.
3) <b>Seriously is it worth the tuition? </b> (I always get asked twice)
A: YES. How many people from 4 year dental schools go onto GPR or AEGD residencies? Lots. How many from UOP? A very small handful. So think about it- you spend four years in dental school, and then go onto a one year post grad residency. A UOP student who goes out on his/her own after 3 years....think of the two <b>extra</b> years a UOP grad has out in practice- the tuition question becomes a little moot.
4) <b>How can you compare UOP to other schools? </b>
A: My cousin graduated from Columbia and I heard everything from his perspective (along with some freinds of his). The complaints they had were legit- but I would never hear them at UOP. It's great to come from a school where politics of an entire hospital don't dictate your education. Smaller private schools
have this advantage- you do not get mired in interdepartmental messes and screw ups. The sad thing is- Columbia is so huge- it's terribly organized. It's too easy for administrators to blame disorganization on 'the system.' And who pays in the end? The student. Disorganization was a way of life for my cousin- he got used to it. But why do you have to??? And let's not even talk about NYU (IMO, it was warned last time during it's accreditation...which should scare you.....) Now I know why SO SO many people drop out of that place.
Oh yeah- I also have some good friends at BU, Tufts, & Baylor....keep in touch with your undergrad friends- it'll be great to share experiences.
5) <b>How can they compress 4 years of education into 3 years?</b>
A: All dental schools were at one time 3 year programs (70's)- UOP was the lone hold out on returning to 4 yr status. There is of course a shorter vacation period and high stress levels- <b>ESPECIALLY 1st YEAR.</b> Also, UOP students (who are very proficient with head/neck anatomy/physio) know little about the extremities- other than what's useful for board exams. I told my friend at UConn I wish I knew more about medical stuff- and he replied- "WHY?? You won't need to know lobules of the liver later on!! I'd rather know how to prep teeth and generate cash flow for my practice!!" This is both true and untrue- as health professionals- we do need to be familiar with all aspects of a patients health. That is perhaps one of the main drawbacks of UOP- a smaller exposure to medicine. Don't get me wrong- as it is FAR from non-existent- but compared to school where you share classes with med students- it's def less.
6) <b>Research? </b>
A: I believe UOP won the ADA research award in 2001. And Invisalign has its roots at UOP. But research is not UOP's goal- and they tell you so upfront. Graduating good GP's is. But don't let that stop you- for MANY profs engage in research- opportunities do exist if you're interested.
7) <b>Specialties? </b>
A: Everyone interested in a specialty has good help in attaining their goals. Endo is perhaps the hardest specialty to enter as a new graduate- because UOP students are so proficient in root canals, many have no trouble getting into post grad endo residencies. (rotary system is a way of life for us- unlike most school who use hand files only- this is also why UOP grads keep endos in house, they are good at them) As for other specialties, the department heads are known around the US and have great connections- YOU just need to get on the ball and start early (research with a prof, PASS applictaions. letters of rec, CV) It's like applying for dental school all over again.
8) <b>Was first year that bad?</b>
A: YES. I don't know if I'd ever do it again. And for the 1 or 2 who repeat UOP's first year- they are SAINTS. Or martyrs, you decide. The price is big- long days at school completing lab work...long nights studying for anatomy, biochem, etc...This goes back to the 3 year question? UOP students in their first year study biochem, anatomy, etc- while at the same time cutting teeth and impressing, etc. Most schools just make your first year a didactic experience.
9) <b>Board success? National and State?</b>
A: Our class (2001) had 100% pass rate on Boards Part II- averages range in the mid to high 80's. This may be alarming to many of you who want to specialize- but remember this, most UOP students want to be GPs, those who want to specialize do very well on boards. California State boards, someone correct me- but 96% pass for UOP + UCSF and 75% for USC... I think this year it was 90% UOP & UCSF and 50% USC. (this is def the Cal boards' fault...)
Well this was lengthy and I felt I could write more- but I think you get the idea. In the end, you'll adjust to <b>WHEREVER</b> you are.
Many of you from California go to outside schools then come back for the Cal boards- do as you want..but it is harder. Try to stay in a California school no matter what. As you interview, I would ask a couple of questions: do you do a lot of lab work, do professors treat you well, does staff treat you well (i.e. such as Columbia, where the staff has a HUGE amount of easily annoyed New Yorkers- you won't win them over- they have seen the game played for years, ha ha)
Best question to ask a senior: <b>Would you donate money back to your school?</b> This tells you many things- think about it. Ask someone from NYU or SDOS this- then ask a UOP graduate. I guarantee you'll get vastly different answers. Ask what percentage of alumni donate back to the school- see the donation boards at schools. See what classes the donators come from. Again, think about why some schools have trouble getting alumni to even talk to the school again....let alone donate back.
Good luck to all of you in wherever your paths may take you- in the end we'll all be in the same profession. It's those of you on this board who care enough to discuss dental education issues- and it's you who will help and shape the future of our profession- we have a great future in store for us. Feel free to email me with any questions or comments. Oh and sorry if I slammed some schools- all done with no malice !!
😀
Take care!
