There's some nice DO bashing going on at SDN

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schutzhund said:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=249871


This is going to be ugly. I'm going to go make some popcorn. I'll be back in a minute.
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d@mn, and that's my fault. 😳 hey, any do types want to jump in there and counter what the md types are saying? i actually would love feedback for my question from both allopathic and osteopathic students. in fact, i'd especially love it from osteopathic students.
 
Nice. I'm on it.
 
In the real world, performance is what counts. It's that simple. The residency arguements may be valid, but as a DO, I believe that if you work hard enough you can accomplish most of your goals in medicine.
 
Don't let a couple of pre-meds with inferiority complexes get you down. There will always be people that need to put others down to help validate their decisions and goals in their own minds. I guarantee you the Trapezius muscle that my hand was wrapped around on my cadaver today were the same Trapezius muscle some MD student was dissecting (Anatomy is so cool!). I guarantee you all the bony landmarks and nerves I learned about are in the same places that the MD student's are. I guarantee you the T-cell receptors, formation of the brain, diagnostic images, and whatever other endless stream of knowledge that was poured into my brain this week was no different than what any other medical school teaches. If you decide to go to a DO school, hopefully for the right reasons, you will see that medical school is medical school and we all HAVE to learn the same things.
 
Malo, I just sat and read some of your blogs for about a half hour...your blogs are addicting! Nice job!
 
schutzhund said:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=249871


This is going to be ugly. I'm going to go make some popcorn. I'll be back in a minute.
Click to expand...

So I'm starting my 2nd semester and, thus far, have not experienced any DO-discrimination and I am quite happy with my decision to 'go DO'. But after browsing some of the opinions/horror stories on SDN, I am curious to know if I am being sheltered by the classroom. For those who have experienced DO-related problems, WHEN/WHERE did it happen?
 
hyperbaric said:
So I'm starting my 2nd semester and, thus far, have not experienced any DO-discrimination and I am quite happy with my decision to 'go DO'. But after browsing some of the opinions/horror stories on SDN, I am curious to know if I am being sheltered by the classroom. For those who have experienced DO-related problems, WHEN/WHERE did it happen?
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What horror stories? Are you talking about the girl who wanted to match into surgery or rad and had a hard time because she was DO, right?

I think anyone who wants to do DO should be aware that some PDs do discriminate, mostly in highly competitive specialities and surgery (even though it's not as competitive). But then again, competitive specialities are going to discriminate against kids from lower tiered med schools too---I mean, certainly at my school, our med school tended to allow the Harvard grads in more easily (darn those Harvard grads!)....I think the DO degree makes it easier for us to see and segregate ourselves and yell 'discrimination!' than if discrimination happened at a unranked med school, but that's just my two cents.
 
I've been working as a nurse now in the hospital for a few years. I had been working with a few doctors for a few years before I eventually saw DO or MD behind their name. In most truth, when specialists are called in...patients never ask these questions about DO/MD, nor does the medical staff. There is a DO neurosurgery residency at the hospital I work at along with a DO family practice residency. The staff has never addressed the DO vs. MD thing....I ended up applying to both schools and accepted a DO spot..and told everyone...nobody said a word to me about it. I have never heard so much DO vs. MD discussion until I started looking on SDN. However, I do not know about getting prime residencies....if going DO is a hinderance.
 
NonTradMed said:
What horror stories? Are you talking about the girl who wanted to match into surgery or rad and had a hard time because she was DO, right?

I think anyone who wants to do DO should be aware that some PDs do discriminate, mostly in highly competitive specialities and surgery (even though it's not as competitive). But then again, competitive specialities are going to discriminate against kids from lower tiered med schools too---I mean, certainly at my school, our med school tended to allow the Harvard grads in more easily
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Totally Ridiculous...this is a very general statement that is clearly was just regurgitated after hearing if somewhere else first. The information that "some PDs do discriminate" is completely useless information that has absolutely no substance behind it. After having applied to a surgery sub-specialty as a D.O. I will be the first to tell you...most PDs are smart enough to take the best applicant. Harvard grads are not selected for residencies over say Chicago Med just because they are from Harvard. I've met alot of Harvard students...some are great but an equal number are arrogant or just plain mediocre.
 
Brett Hart said:
Totally Ridiculous...this is a very general statement that is clearly was just regurgitated after hearing if somewhere else first. The information that "some PDs do discriminate" is completely useless information that has absolutely no substance behind it. After having applied to a surgery sub-specialty as a D.O. I will be the first to tell you...most PDs are smart enough to take the best applicant. Harvard grads are not selected for residencies over say Chicago Med just because they are from Harvard. I've met alot of Harvard students...some are great but an equal number are arrogant or just plain mediocre.
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Maybe true. However, the surgery story was from DrMaryC -- you can do a search if you're curious. Basically, some stupid surgery program refused to interview her because they said she couldn't sit for their boards. She wrote a very cool letter clarifying things, but I don't know the end result. So, yeah, it did happen. Whether or not it really matters that one program won't interview you is another issue.
 
chickens said:
I've been working as a nurse now in the hospital for a few years. I had been working with a few doctors for a few years before I eventually saw DO or MD behind their name. In most truth, when specialists are called in...patients never ask these questions about DO/MD, nor does the medical staff. There is a DO neurosurgery residency at the hospital I work at along with a DO family practice residency. The staff has never addressed the DO vs. MD thing....I ended up applying to both schools and accepted a DO spot..and told everyone...nobody said a word to me about it. I have never heard so much DO vs. MD discussion until I started looking on SDN. However, I do not know about getting prime residencies....if going DO is a hinderance.
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As a current RN, I echo what you just said, that has been my experience also.
I sometimes wonder if all this inappropriate bashing has to do with the maturity level of some of the SDNers. Once you get a certain age (most people anyway) begin to care less and less about initials/titles behind their names--see med school type #3.http://theunderweardrawer.homestead.com/twelvemedstudents.html
 
Brett Hart said:
Totally Ridiculous...this is a very general statement that is clearly was just regurgitated after hearing if somewhere else first. The information that "some PDs do discriminate" is completely useless information that has absolutely no substance behind it. After having applied to a surgery sub-specialty as a D.O. I will be the first to tell you...most PDs are smart enough to take the best applicant. Harvard grads are not selected for residencies over say Chicago Med just because they are from Harvard. I've met alot of Harvard students...some are great but an equal number are arrogant or just plain mediocre.
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Well, I'm glad your experience is good, but the DrMaryC did mention that she had experienced some problems (as exlawgrrl pointed out). It could be an isolated case, but maybe not----obviously, since you are doing a fine with your DO degree, it's not a hinderance in all cases.

However, I will say that given everything else is equal, I have a hard time believing a Harvard grad won't get an edge for being Harvard than say Chicago Med or CCOM student. I think because there are so many other factors in regards to matching into a residency, school name is not as important as grades, boards etc, but I'm not going to believe that lower tiered schools tend to have more people in 'less desirable' specialities because they are more altruistic.

So if I was to give advice to someone on where to apply for med school, it would be, apply to the school that will allow you to shine, apply to the best school possible that won't bankrupt you. School rank isn't as important as other factors, but that isn't to say it's not important at all. After all, we all want the best possible chance of attaining the best residency, right? Getting into the 'best' school won't guarantee it, but it will definitely not hurt. Going to a lesser ranked school may not shut the door to competitive residency, but it certainly won't help either.

In the end, education is what you make of it. I went to a top undergrad school and yet I am rejected from schools that kids from 'lesser ranked' schools got in....yet my undergrad school have also sent a disproportionate number of kids into top med schools so I can't say our school name didn't help either. I guess my story does put me in a poorer light, doesn't it? 😛
 
My mother is an FP (M.D.) and was up visiting. I was reading this thread and posed some scenarious to her about med schools I want to go to.

I said, what about U of I vs. CCOM? She said U of I (her partner is an alumni)
Rosalind Franklin v. CCOM? CCOM
Rush v. CCOM? CCOM (she interviewed there years ago and was rejected. Still bears a grudge)
SLU vs. CCOM? CCOM
SIU vs. CCOM? SIU (her alma mater)

My mother has been a nurse as long as she's been a doctor. She respects her many colleagues that are DOs and in her words "there's no difference" but she did say that if I go the DO route to take the USMLEs just in case I want to choose a residency based on specialty AND location.
 
DOtobe said:
Malo, I just sat and read some of your blogs for about a half hour...your blogs are addicting! Nice job!
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Thanks DOtobe, I appreciate the feedback. Actually, you may see an article coming out soon about my blog. I'll let you know!
 
NonTradMed said:
However, I will say that given everything else is equal, I have a hard time believing a Harvard grad won't get an edge for being Harvard than say Chicago Med or CCOM student. I think because there are so many other factors in regards to matching into a residency, school name is not as important as grades, boards etc, but I'm not going to believe that lower tiered schools tend to have more people in 'less desirable' specialities because they are more altruistic.
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In medicine, there isn't tiering. Law schools have a tiering system. Medical school is medical school. It doesn't matter where you go. If you work hard, do well, have a pleasant personality... there isn't a thing you can't do or a goal you can't accomplish.

In fact, all around Chicago, preceptors and residency directors know CCOM and love the students from CCOM. In fact, I have had many preceptors say to me, "Oh, your from CCOM... thank God! We love you guys. The last student we had was from X."

And our dean always forwards us emails from preceptors, physicians and rotation locations that sing the praises of our students and talk about them glowingly in comparison to students from other Chicagoland schools. Ths happens all teh time. I have tons of these in my inbox.

Every school has it's reputation and tradition. CCOM has been around over 100 years... alll of Chicago knows us and we have a very reputable name. We aren't Harvard, but we are continually called The Harvard of the Midwest.

And I can almost guarantee you that a CCOM student would get "some type of edge" as you so eloquently say, while being considered for residency in Chicago when being compared to any out of state applicant, including Harvard.
 
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