Things to Consider as an Older Applicant

[SEE_ya]

So you wanna go to med school. You’re smart, you want to help people, you’re stimulated and engaged by a challenge, you’re extremely hard-working. I was too. 4.0. Phi Beta Kappa. Great volunteer experience, diversity stuff. Well past average age of admission. And I got into a top 20 med school. When choosing medicine and med school, take the following into consideration. I didn't and TOTALLY regret it.

About the career itself:

1. MAKE SURE that medicine is what you want to study. How? VOLUNTEER at hospitals. SHADOW different types of doctors. ASK many people what med school is like, what residency is like, and what the profession is like - KNOW what you're getting into. There are many untold secrets. I'll tell you what I can here.

2. KNOW that there are many other great careers out there - make sure you're not on an ego or power trip when you choose medicine.

When choosing a school, ask about:

3. The grading system. I recommend pass/fail, or some non-numerical system. When they use numbers, it is waaaaaaay too f*cking competitive. Many schools have gone this route, for example, using a honors/high pass/pass/low pass/fail system. Only 2 schools in this country, however, are truly pass/fail in that they don’t even rank their graduates: Harvard and Stanford. But listen, those schools are scary competitive – like ya didn’t know that. Oh yeah – DON’T just ask students about the grading system. MAKE SURE you ask people from administration.

4. Whether it is known for research or not. Research institutions focus on RESEARCH. The teaching is abominable. Unlike undergrad days, you will have MANY profs teach one class. They lecture for a day or two, then another one comes in, etc. Out of the entire spectrum of duties these guys (and ladies) attend to, teaching is by far the least of their concerns. By that I mean - the syllabus you use for class (which is essentially your text, not merely a 2-pager like you get in undergrad) is woefully inadequate, full of typos, missing figures and misleading information. You will LONG for one of those dry 50-lb texts like you had in undergrad bio... KNOW that in med school, you will be called upon to DO MUCH OF YOUR LEARNING ON YOUR OWN. There are NO TA's for you to ask questions of. You need the best materials you can get. You are not likely to get that at a research institution.

5. The daily schedule. If classes/labs meet from 9a-5p, you will be faced with a dilemma - do I stay up until 1 am every night to study, or do I cut classes and study then (from these woefully inadequate materials, etc.)? Go for the lightest daily schedule you can. You will be thankful in the end.

6. The attendance policy. The corollary to #5 is: ASK whether class attendance is mandatory or not. Because ultimately, you will probably end up skipping class. Most do, though some people are eternal ‘classgoers’ as they are called. But if it works out to be better for YOU to skip, give yourself the leeway to do that – avoid a school where class attendance is mandatory.

7. The social and political climate. If you're from a liberal background (like me), you may not be happy at a school that is socially and politically conservative. Imagine my shock to find out that I’m in the minority in my class because I’m not a bible-beating ultra right wing conservative. Mind you – I was at a public school. And I’m a Methodist (o.k., a C&E Methodist), no atheist here or anything like that, but I couldn’t so much as utter a curse word in Anatomy Lab because all my tankmates would blush. Believe me – you will want to curse in Anatomy Lab – it is very frustrating. Now – I don’t exactly know about how you find this sort of thing out in advance – if I did, I guess I wouldn’t have wound up at this school. But try to get a feel for this – I found it was important to me.

And once in med school:

8. You will have a better experience the younger you are. If you are SURE you want to do med school right out of undergrad, GO FOR IT. I say this because you will need a lot of social support. And you will get that support easily from your classmates the younger and more of a 'traditional' med student you are age-wise.

9. For older students: I ENCOURAGE you to go to a school where there are more than 1 or 2 people over 30. Older students will not get a lot of social support, simply because they are at a different stage of life than the 20-somethings. Moreover, when older students go to the Dean of Students for support, they hear the party line that would routinely be given to a 20-something. Yes – you may be patronized – and you may resent it like all h*ll. But that’s what you’ll get. Older students will be more isolated and therefore must be very self-reliant – or have a good network outside of med school.

10. BE PREPARED for a BIG HIT to your ego. In med school, you are now in a crowd where EVERYONE was the smartest person in their class - they ALL got the top grades, they ALL worked the hardest, etc. Holy **** - you do NOT, if you have gotten accepted to a highly ranking med school, know what it feels like to be mediocre or worse. Make sure you can handle that - it is EXCRUCIATINGLY difficult for many people.

Alright - that's all the advice I can give you. Godspeed and good luck.

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[powerbooki]

SEE_ya, thanks for all the advice! Two things that alterted me are the very possible isolation due to age once in a group of much younger people, and that to make sure the motivation is not largely out of ego/to be. Also, I agree that younger and 'traditional' med students have better support all around. They are like the hydrophobic amino acids that are more fit for the tight interior of proteins, and in order for any hydrophilic amino acid to also fit into the interior, much extra work has to be done so that this energetically unfavourable configuration can somehow be compensated and maintained. Sometimes I think what it would be like if I was doing this 10 years ago at the typical age. It's easy to tell I will be able to concentrate more due to various reasons.

 

[nontrad314]

SEE_ya, thanks for all the advice!

I agree, good post!

 

[Law2Doc]

8. You will have a better experience the younger you are. If you are SURE you want to do med school right out of undergrad, GO FOR IT. I say this because you will need a lot of social support. And you will get that support easily from your classmates the younger and more of a 'traditional' med student you are age-wise.

The OP's post is a very accurate one, but I'm not so sure #8 is completely true. There are going to be far more depressing sunny weekend afternoons if you are 20 and all your friends from college are outside partying and watching ballgames while you are stuck in the library studying weekend after weekend. If you are older, you've already been there, done that, and your "college friends" are more likely now doing family stuff, office work, or home maintenance, so you won't be nearly as jealous. Also lots of older nontrads show up to med school with their own social support (eg. spouses). As for fitting in with your classmates, that is more a personality and looks driven thing than a chronological age thing.

 

[efex101]

There are other schools aside from the two posted whom are truly pass/fail (I go to one) and do not rank. Also, I am at research heavy school and classes are NOT taught by a plethora of professors per class...most are clinicians the classes are not a bunch of minutae and are highly clinically relevant. The syllabi are excellent! and full of information that is easily learned. Sure, some schools may be this way but not all! so take the OP's post as you wish but not all the points on there are exactly like that...just fyi.

 

[1Path]

I'd like to add that if it's been more than 5 years since you had the MCAT preq courses and/or you didn't do reasonably well in them (Mainly A's and B's) then retake ALL of these courses BEFORE sitting for the MCAT.

 

[1Path]

8. You will have a better experience the younger you are. I say this because you will need a lot of social support. And you will get that support easily from your classmates the younger and more of a 'traditional' med student you are age-wise.

This is a pretty ridiculous comment, IMHO.

"Social support" is for people who are unsure of themselves and require outside validation to feel important. Older students don't usually deal with these issues. Academic support, which is what you should be talking about, IS important for ALL medical students.

 

[MeowMix]

I think this is an excellent post and really nails the primary issues at most schools. efex is lucky enough to have found an exception to the research institution generalities, but my experience is closer to the OP's.

My experience does not reflect #8, that it's easier for younger students. Perhaps it's because we have a lot of older students in my class, and at my school in general; I also feel that I have pretty good general coping skills. Given the choice of going to med school late or not at all, I am glad to be there.

I absolutely disagree with 1path's contention that social support is for the unsure. I don't know what you are thinking of, but my social network outside med school is essential for my happiness and wellbeing. Some of the unhappiest students I see are those (younger and older) who do not have social support inside or outside med school, even though they are doing well at school.

 

[1Path]

I absolutely disagree with 1path's contention that social support is for the unsure. I don't know what you are thinking of, but my social network outside med school is essential for my happiness and wellbeing. Some of the unhappiest students I see are those (younger and older) who do not have social support inside or outside med school, even though they are doing well at school.

Well double duh, who doesn't need support outside of med school?

Perhaps a definition of what I think the OP's definition of social support is in order. Personally, I don't need to hang out with my classmates for beer and dinner after class on regular basis because I have a family to take care of. That's the kind of "social support" I didn't need even when I was in my 20's. I have/will continue however, to hang out for coffee, study groups, or lunch when taking classes with folks as I recently did last Spring.

The hidden message in the OP's contention that "you will get that support easily from your classmates the younger and more of a 'traditional' med student you are age-wise. is that older students won't be "validated" by their peers because of their age. Well I say if people can't accept me for who I am, screw 'em. I'm not in med school for their acceptance anyway. This ISN't supposed a microcosm of Grey's Anatomy, this is REAL life. Maybe some people need that "validation" but I don't so to each his own, I guess.

 

[njbmd]

Hi Folks,
Medical school is a good experience no matter what age. It is mentally and physically demanding but not impossible for anyone with desire and a good work ethic.

You DO NOT need a social support group for medical school. Most of your learning is done solo with syllabi, class notes and text. Study groups can be great for things like Gross Anatomy but 90% of your learning takes place solo.

My school had 20 students over 30 out of 100 students. I was the third oldest in my class and since I was single at the time, I tended to socialize with my traditional buddies. We did the study group thing at times but we did most of our studying solo. We partied and we studied and even today, they are among my best friends.

A few of my classmates were single parents with young children that we all took turns babysitting so that they could study in the Gross lab in the evenings and on weekends. We all became aunts and uncles and having the kids around was pretty nice. They brought us home-baked goodies in exchange. It was all good!

Two of my classmates gave birth towards the middle of the first semester during first year. We took turns studying with them so that they didn't miss anything from class. They did well and we enjoyed helping them. Another classmate became pregnant during second year and had to be on bedrest. We did the same for here too. She was out of school for three months and did just fine. In the end, by teaching her, we did better on our exams.

There was no mandatory attendance at my school so we picked the most useful lectures to attend. Since we had a note-service, the non-useful lectures could be studied through notes. We had taped lab sessions that could be accessed via the internet. All lecture notes had to be in the Powerpoint format and available on-line for download. Our classrooms had smartboards that automatically downloaded to our laptops so you really did not have to take very many notes even if you went to class.

We had a fair amount of CBL or computer based learning for things like physiology. These programs could also be downloaded for home use. For pathology, we had our own microscopes and slide boxes that could be used at home. Again, you could do your individual study and actually accomplish more that if you sat in lecture or lab.

The only thing that required mandatory attendance was exams. Everyone had an assigned seat and you sat in the same seat for every test. All tests were Scantron or computer-graded and the computer could not tell one student from another.

Medical school is about getting the material mastered and getting on with the practice of medicine. You get the foundation for what you need to practice medicine and it is up to you to be proactive about your learning. You classmates cannot do it for you but they can be invaluable when you need help. Your upperclassmen can help you navigate the maze too. We helped the underclassmen with physical diagnosis (gotta learn to use that opthalmoscope) and with knot-tying, suturing and the like.

Every student, traditional or non-traditional has to make an adjustment to the study of medicine. In general, the study habits that got you to medical school will get you through but you have to be willing to adjust up or down to become the most efficient. In every class, there are gunners and there are slackers so being traditional or non-traditional does not give you a lock on avoiding becoming either of these. Many people become very stressed under the huge load of information and handle that stress by interesting personality changes. Again, most people go with the flow and do their best. There just isn't that much difference between non-traditional and traditional medical students.

njbmd