Thinking about dropping out

[Medblues]

Finished first year and I am really debating if I want to continue. I don't know how my perspective changed so dramatically, but I worked extremely hard to get accepted and after first year I feel I made a terrible mistake. I know the first two years are bad, but all of my classmates seem to love every second of it, while I have been miserable/depressed the entire time.

In retrospect I probably entered down this path for the wrong reasons. I've realized that I have never really liked science. I sucked it up to get through the undergrad prereqs, but I'm terrible at route memorization, and I've always preferred math-based subjects. I have tried to shadow various specialties throughout first year to see if I could find something I liked enough to stick it out and after each experience I have even less of a desire to pursue a career in clinical medicine. I'm on track to graduate well over 300,000 dollars in debt if I continue and I seriously get physically sick every time I think about it. My own stress and reservations are also dramatically enhanced when I hear just about every physician I interact with complain about the toxic liability environment, midlevel competition, declining reimbursements and the unsustainable patient volume they deal with.

I was wondering if anyone has seen any of their classmates drop out and what they ended up doing career wise? I know having an MD would open up some doors, but I don't think I can stick it out for another 3 years or stomach the debt accumulation that it would require. Is there any masters degrees that I could pursue that I would be able to apply credits from my first year?

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[J ROD]

Be sure before you give your spot up. Not sure about the Masters. Maybe you should do some job shadowing and seeing if there is something that sparks your interest more.

We had a girl that decided not to repeat 1st yr and instead went into medical sales and she says it was a great decision for her.

Not sure if she was just saying that to cover her failures.

It is better to get out early if you are sure you want to. Only you can answer that question.

 

[Dral]

Have you explored rad onc?

 

[FIREitUP]

Finished first year and I am really debating if I want to continue. I don't know how my perspective changed so dramatically, but I worked extremely hard to get accepted and after first year I feel I made a terrible mistake. I know the first two years are bad, but all of my classmates seem to love every second of it, while I have been miserable/depressed the entire time.

In retrospect I probably entered down this path for the wrong reasons. I've realized that I have never really liked science. I sucked it up to get through the undergrad prereqs, but I'm terrible at route memorization, and I've always preferred math-based subjects. I have tried to shadow various specialties throughout first year to see if I could find something I liked enough to stick it out and after each experience I have even less of a desire to pursue a career in clinical medicine. I'm on track to graduate well over 300,000 dollars in debt if I continue and I seriously get physically sick every time I think about it. My own stress and reservations are also dramatically enhanced when I hear just about every physician I interact with complain about the toxic liability environment, midlevel competition, declining reimbursements and the unsustainable patient volume they deal with.

I was wondering if anyone has seen any of their classmates drop out and what they ended up doing career wise? I know having an MD would open up some doors, but I don't think I can stick it out for another 3 years or stomach the debt accumulation that it would require. Is there any masters degrees that I could pursue that I would be able to apply credits from my first year?

your classmates are losers if they truly are enjoying every minute of it. i wasn't a huge science fan myself, and i absolutely hated the first two years but I don't really think you can assess whether you would enjoy clinical medicine in the current state of mind you're in. you sound angry, frustrated, and exasperated and have found a place to vent, which is fine, but I think you should realize that many people have felt the same way (myself included) and have been glad that they stuck it out.

 

[willen101383]

M1 and M2 (and hell a good sized chunk of M3) SUCK. I totally understand the "everyone is so excited about this crap" stuff....because I felt the same way for my preclinical years. Hell I still feel that during M4 year, although a lot of people are starting to get into graduation mode and are tired of being med students. I vote you stick it out if your grades are good. Talk to your student affairs dean, or maybe see if you can go shadow some attendings in a field you may be interested in. It would suck to be bail on a career because you thought M1 was ****ty.....(which it was). Things get better as med school progress, and people start to lose the "zomgz we are med students this rulez" attitude as time goes on. GL OP!

 

[link2swim06]

It is kind of like dropping out of college. A very bad idea for most. An exceptional idea for a few. If you want to have a stable, good job stick with it.

 

[NSurgOrBust]

You should shadow more doctors in different fields because there are many I'm sure you haven't checked out yet. You could stay on the ride, get your MD, and find other career paths not involved in the clinical setting(such as acquiring a MBA and go the business route).

As for your first year, I too didn't enjoy M1 as much I expected to. However. I made some friends with common interests (weight lifting, cooking, video games, etc.) that helped me keep my sanity. You should find a hobby (tennis, running, reading Game of Thrones) to escape for awhile for the remaining years of medical school.

 

[Healthyheal]

Theres a lot of diversity between fields. Med school doesnt have to be about rote memorization if you learn actively from your profs and engage in topics u find interesting. U ever worked directly with a patient and took care of them? Odnt just shadiw, push to do more. If u miss math consider fields that require you to be more analytical. Dont give up just yet and dont let the complainers bog you down.

 

[Anastomoses]

your classmates are losers if they truly are enjoying every minute of it. i wasn't a huge science fan myself, and i absolutely hated the first two years but I don't really think you can assess whether you would enjoy clinical medicine in the current state of mind you're in. you sound angry, frustrated, and exasperated and have found a place to vent, which is fine, but I think you should realize that many people have felt the same way (myself included) and have been glad that they stuck it out.

Actually some of us who ARE really into it think the rest of you are losers and we wish you'd stop making the whole experience less interesting and exciting. Haters. I am actually about fed up with med students who aren't as excited about material. They should have separate classes for them. Argh.

OP: You have 1 post, seriously?

Is there a reason somebody has to make one of these "i'm so unhappy, I think I should drop out" posts every 3 days?? Annoying.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Actually some of us who ARE really into it think the rest of you are losers and we wish you'd stop making the whole experience less interesting and exciting. Haters. I am actually about fed up with med students who aren't as excited about material. They should have separate classes for them. Argh.

OP: You have 1 post, seriously?

Is there a reason somebody has to make one of these "i'm so unhappy, I think I should drop out" posts every 3 days?? Annoying.

People like you exist, but in much smaller numbers than those who don't necessarily hate every day, but hate it on some or most days (especially MS1/MS2). Therefore, some people brand you as "losers". It is somewhat of an inferiority complex, as those that are "really into it" are generally the ones setting curves. I say this as someone who is rarely "really into it" but knows 'different strokes for different folks'.

OP - If you really hate science in general and want to pursue a math-based career, I would say go for it (and after M1 is probably the best time to drop out d/t less loans taken out). However, as others have stated, BE SURE about it. Once you drop out of med school, there (except rarely) is no going back. Do you have an undergrad degree in something math/engineering related? If not, you'll have to get another undergrad degree before you start working in Math. I doubt med school classes would transfer, and even if they did, they'd transfer to a Masters.... in some science field. Doesn't get you away from your hatred of science.

Do you hate science so much you're going to essentially stop the forward progression of your professional career by at least 2-4 years? That's the million (or 300 thousand) dollar question.

 

[chopes31]

OP apply to some jobs. If you get interviews and offers for jobs you could see yourself doing, then consider dropping out. You might be surprised to find that your college degree doesn't get you very far these days, or maybe it will! But at least test out the market before you give up what you have.

Edit: A masters degree won't make much difference either, unless your next step is PhD

 

[HoboCommander]

People who actually like medicine are competing hard for residency spots. If you don't like medicine, you should not do it. The rest of us really need the spot and will thank you.

 

[evilbooyaa]

People who actually like medicine are competing hard for residency spots. If you don't like medicine, you should not do it. The rest of us really need the spot and will thank you.

Ignore this advice. Do what is best for you at this current time without wondering about all the pre-meds and IMGs you are helping with your actions.

 

[FIREitUP]

Actually some of us who ARE really into it think the rest of you are losers and we wish you'd stop making the whole experience less interesting and exciting. Haters. I am actually about fed up with med students who aren't as excited about material. They should have separate classes for them. Argh.

OP: You have 1 post, seriously?

Is there a reason somebody has to make one of these "i'm so unhappy, I think I should drop out" posts every 3 days?? Annoying.

looks like somebody hasn't gone through the following subjects: anatomy, embryology, pharmacology. mostly we hate you because you're losers and you smell funny.

 

[tranquilo]

looks like somebody hasn't gone through the following subjects: anatomy, embryology, pharmacology. mostly we hate you because you're losers and you smell funny.

Gotta love a good put-down

 

[Textbookversion]

looks like somebody hasn't gone through the following subjects: anatomy, embryology, pharmacology. mostly we hate you because you're losers and you smell funny.

I don't get why I had to memorize obscure cancer drugs that are fairly experimental. I asked my family members who are docs -- not one of them had ever heard of them.

I guess the point in relation to this thread is the first 2 years are a nasty hazing process that requires you to learn ridiculous details that you won't retain, and you didn't need to know in the first place.

I wouldn't make a decision this big based on anything happening the first 2 years.

 

[CDI]

looks like somebody hasn't gone through the following subjects: anatomy, embryology, pharmacology. mostly we hate you because you're losers and you smell funny.

 

[adenocard]

looks like somebody hasn't gone through the following subjects: anatomy, embryology, pharmacology. mostly we hate you because you're losers and you smell funny.

 

[Wordead]

looks like somebody hasn't gone through the following subjects: anatomy, embryology, pharmacology. mostly we hate you because you're losers and you smell funny.

I hated those subjects too, but calling anyone a loser for liking a subject just makes you a huge tool.

 

[Trogghunter]

I had the same freakout, especially pertaining to my debt and the outlook of primary care. I looked back to why I went into medicine---partly my ego, partly the job stability, but when I thought about it--really got into it-i found that I wanted to do nothing else. Why? Because I feel like it's my duty to the world and because I am not only pretty decent at it, but I react to crisis well, as you may too. It's different when you get yourself involved, trust me. Your career choice or specialty should reflect your personality and aspirations, not how well you do in certain classes.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using SDN Mobile

 

[CDI]

I hated those subjects too, but calling anyone a loser for liking a subject just makes you a huge tool.

What if they just smell funny?

 

[tantacles]

I hated those subjects too, but calling anyone a loser for liking a subject just makes you a huge tool.

Actually, we hate them for telling us how grateful we should be because we have the privilege of memorizing the Krebs' Cycle for the fourteenth time. Plenty of people love science; I'm one of them. But sanctimoniously insisting that everyone else should hold all of the irrelevant detail memorizing in the highest of regards can be really annoying.

 

[wholeheartedly]

Not qualified to comment on the stay or go part for medical school, but if you do decide to leave and want to consider masters degree options, check out biostats and epidemiology. Health related with a lot of math. Biostats has pretty good job prospects and epi is fun, but I'm biased on that one. Those are fields where you can get decent jobs with a just a masters degree, biostats more so.

Your MD classes probably won't count credit wise, but they will still be useful. Alternatively, before committing yourself, maybe take a leave to explore some areas and if you find a good fit that you can see yourself doing, then consider switching maybe?

 

[Anastomoses]

looks like somebody hasn't gone through the following subjects: anatomy, embryology, pharmacology. mostly we hate you because you're losers and you smell funny.

Um...how can someone go through M1 without taking embryology or anatomy? I can't speak to pharma yet.

Those two were my least favorite subjects of first year and they were STILL somewhat fascinating. How can learning about how incomplete closure of the neural tube --> spina bifida NOT be fascinating...how can it not be super cool the day you're leaning into your elbow and realize - oops, I'm compressing my ulnar nerve and wow, yeah my medial two fingers are numb! not be awesome? Or hey, why isn't my abductor hallucis abducting and instead just extending every time I try. I mean...people who lack intellectual curiosity in their subjects are just pffft...I really couldn't care. I guess I wish they had schools specifically for people who love this sh--! So we losers could all hang out and geek out to the details. I think you smell.

Actually, we hate them for telling us how grateful we should be because we have the privilege of memorizing the Krebs' Cycle for the fourteenth time. Plenty of people love science; I'm one of them. But sanctimoniously insisting that everyone else should hold all of the irrelevant detail memorizing in the highest of regards can be really annoying.

Nobody tells you to be grateful. Least of all for the Kreb's Cycle... It's just really frustrating being surrounded by people who are basically trying to learn the bare minimum required to do well on an exam or Step I. Like get into it already...EVEN IF IT'S NOT ON THE EXAM. This is some of the coolest stuff you could possibly understand. It's almost like having a super power...knowing how everything in the human body works. You don't want to savor it? ...then don't.

I don't even comprehend how we justify teaching algebra II to HS students and not medical physiology.

 

[FIREitUP]

Um...how can someone go through M1 without taking embryology or anatomy? I can't speak to pharma yet.

Those two were my least favorite subjects of first year and they were STILL somewhat fascinating. How can learning about how incomplete closure of the neural tube --> spina bifida NOT be fascinating...how can it not be super cool the day you're leaning into your elbow and realize - oops, I'm compressing my ulnar nerve and wow, yeah my medial two fingers are numb! not be awesome? Or hey, why isn't my abductor hallucis abducting and instead just extending every time I try. I mean...people who lack intellectual curiosity in their subjects are just pffft...I really couldn't care. I guess I wish they had schools specifically for people who love this sh--! So we losers could all hang out and geek out to the details. I think you smell.



Nobody tells you to be grateful. Least of all for the Kreb's Cycle... It's just really frustrating being surrounded by people who are basically trying to learn the bare minimum required to do well on an exam or Step I. Like get into it already...EVEN IF IT'S NOT ON THE EXAM. This is some of the coolest stuff you could possibly understand. It's almost like having a super power...knowing how everything in the human body works. You don't want to savor it? ...then don't.

I don't even comprehend how we justify teaching algebra II to HS students and not medical physiology.

thanks for proving my point. do you play shuffleboard with your friends by any chance, or do you just study for fun?

 

[Silent Cool]

Um...how can someone go through M1 without taking embryology or anatomy? I can't speak to pharma yet.

Those two were my least favorite subjects of first year and they were STILL somewhat fascinating. How can learning about how incomplete closure of the neural tube --> spina bifida NOT be fascinating...how can it not be super cool the day you're leaning into your elbow and realize - oops, I'm compressing my ulnar nerve and wow, yeah my medial two fingers are numb! not be awesome? Or hey, why isn't my abductor hallucis abducting and instead just extending every time I try. I mean...people who lack intellectual curiosity in their subjects are just pffft...I really couldn't care. I guess I wish they had schools specifically for people who love this sh--! So we losers could all hang out and geek out to the details. I think you smell.



Nobody tells you to be grateful. Least of all for the Kreb's Cycle... It's just really frustrating being surrounded by people who are basically trying to learn the bare minimum required to do well on an exam or Step I. Like get into it already...EVEN IF IT'S NOT ON THE EXAM. This is some of the coolest stuff you could possibly understand. It's almost like having a super power...knowing how everything in the human body works. You don't want to savor it? ...then don't.

I don't even comprehend how we justify teaching algebra II to HS students and not medical physiology.

It's cool when you get to "savor" it (or whatever) on your own time and your own terms, but not so much when you have to memorize and remember every last mother f****** detail as if they were, I don't know, spraying from a fire hydrant into your face--like a painful, cold bath that costs 50K per year. Yeah that pretty much sums it up I think.

 

[evilbooyaa]

Um...how can someone go through M1 without taking embryology or anatomy? I can't speak to pharma yet.

Those two were my least favorite subjects of first year and they were STILL somewhat fascinating. How can learning about how incomplete closure of the neural tube --> spina bifida NOT be fascinating...how can it not be super cool the day you're leaning into your elbow and realize - oops, I'm compressing my ulnar nerve and wow, yeah my medial two fingers are numb! not be awesome? Or hey, why isn't my abductor hallucis abducting and instead just extending every time I try. I mean...people who lack intellectual curiosity in their subjects are just pffft...I really couldn't care. I guess I wish they had schools specifically for people who love this sh--! So we losers could all hang out and geek out to the details. I think you smell.



Nobody tells you to be grateful. Least of all for the Kreb's Cycle... It's just really frustrating being surrounded by people who are basically trying to learn the bare minimum required to do well on an exam or Step I. Like get into it already...EVEN IF IT'S NOT ON THE EXAM. This is some of the coolest stuff you could possibly understand. It's almost like having a super power...knowing how everything in the human body works. You don't want to savor it? ...then don't.

I don't even comprehend how we justify teaching algebra II to HS students and not medical physiology.

Oh lord. I was trying to defend you and people who think like you, but if you are so mind-numbingly blown away at your elbow compressing your ulnar nerve and that's why half of your 4th and 5th fingers are numb... I don't know what to say. You remind me of a student in our class who was so overly enthusiastic (Oh so that's what the transition zone in the cervix looks like under a microscope, OMG that's so amazing!) about everything and studied like 10 hours a day, including after exams and (almost) never hung out outside of medical school. I knew something was up when I didn't see her in the study lounge one day (as every other day I went in I would see her). Then she didn't show up for a test. Then 2. Then 3. Turns out she burnt out and dropped out of school.

Not saying it'll happen to you, just be careful.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Um...how can someone go through M1 without taking embryology or anatomy? I can't speak to pharma yet.

Those two were my least favorite subjects of first year and they were STILL somewhat fascinating. How can learning about how incomplete closure of the neural tube --> spina bifida NOT be fascinating...how can it not be super cool the day you're leaning into your elbow and realize - oops, I'm compressing my ulnar nerve and wow, yeah my medial two fingers are numb! not be awesome? Or hey, why isn't my abductor hallucis abducting and instead just extending every time I try. I mean...people who lack intellectual curiosity in their subjects are just pffft...I really couldn't care. I guess I wish they had schools specifically for people who love this sh--! So we losers could all hang out and geek out to the details. I think you smell.



Nobody tells you to be grateful. Least of all for the Kreb's Cycle... It's just really frustrating being surrounded by people who are basically trying to learn the bare minimum required to do well on an exam or Step I. Like get into it already...EVEN IF IT'S NOT ON THE EXAM. This is some of the coolest stuff you could possibly understand. It's almost like having a super power...knowing how everything in the human body works. You don't want to savor it? ...then don't.

I don't even comprehend how we justify teaching algebra II to HS students and not medical physiology.

One reason why people don't "get into it" is that there are things outside of medicine that are far more interesting and engaging than the myriad of minutia you seem to love. People like you are criticized partially because of your disproportionately high level of enthusiasm for them, which implies a disproportionately low level of enthusiasm for other things, things that should be interesting if you weren't myopic. You know what I find more interesting than the subjective experience of compressing the ulnar nerve? William Faulkner. Floyd Mayweather's boxing technique. Christopher Nolan movies. The Baltimore Ravens. The French Revolution.

I don't see any reason why I should spend more time on memorizing irrelevant minutia that will not be on the test and will have no bearing on my future as a doctor at the expense of spending less time engaging myself on these other more enriching interests. If that annoys you, then oh well. I'd rather you stay annoyed than my having to sacrifice and go out of my way to appease you.

 

[tranquilo]

Some of the material I've encountered in M1 has sparked my interest and made the learning a lot easier. Other than that, I doubt constant fascination about every dull detail is necessary to successfully carry you through school.

Here is to all of us losers : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7KnYd4Qk6c

Best of luck OP!

 

[Anastomoses]

thanks for proving my point. do you play shuffleboard with your friends by any chance, or do you just study for fun?

hah! I guess it's weird to think studying is fun? Is it weird to get preoccupied by the dictionary.com page when they mention origins of words too? I guess we're all made differently. Whatever cool guy.

It's cool when you get to "savor" it (or whatever) on your own time and your own terms, but not so much when you have to memorize and remember every last mother f****** detail as if they were, I don't know, spraying from a fire hydrant into your face--like a painful, cold bath that costs 50K per year. Yeah that pretty much sums it up I think.

This I can agree with. There are certainly times when I feel exasperated, but mostly I want to be surrounded by people who are excited about the material. It's been a real let-down seeing how many people in med school really don't like it all that much. I've heard people are more into it during residency.

Oh lord. I was trying to defend you and people who think like you, but if you are so mind-numbingly blown away at your elbow compressing your ulnar nerve and that's why half of your 4th and 5th fingers are numb... I don't know what to say. You remind me of a student in our class who was so overly enthusiastic (Oh so that's what the transition zone in the cervix looks like under a microscope, OMG that's so amazing!) about everything and studied like 10 hours a day, including after exams and (almost) never hung out outside of medical school. I knew something was up when I didn't see her in the study lounge one day (as every other day I went in I would see her). Then she didn't show up for a test. Then 2. Then 3. Turns out she burnt out and dropped out of school.

Not saying it'll happen to you, just be careful.

I have those periods of burn-out as well and I've had to learn to pace myself better. It's frustrating to want to know about it all at a rate the brain can't handle.

One reason why people don't "get into it" is that there are things outside of medicine that are far more interesting and engaging than the myriad of minutia you seem to love. People like you are criticized partially because of your disproportionately high level of enthusiasm for them, which implies a disproportionately low level of enthusiasm for other things, things that should be interesting if you weren't myopic. You know what I find more interesting than the subjective experience of compressing the ulnar nerve? William Faulkner. Floyd Mayweather's boxing technique. Christopher Nolan movies. The Baltimore Ravens. The French Revolution.

This is erroneous. I'm trying to think of some of the other students I mesh with due to our...eh...what some might call preoccupation with medicine...and I don't think any of us is so myopic that we don't have other interests. I'm not trying to boast but you'd be hard-pressed to find too many med students who are more well-traveled or have read more literature - Camus, Kafka, Hesse, French Revolution, books on Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. I fenced and played soccer in college. I watch game of thrones and dexter (albeit in blocks). When I go to clubs I actually dance and better than 90% of the population (not just med school population). So don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos that can't socially function unless we're talking about school. But sure...I make random analogies to the CNS ischemic response. Or get excited explaining to family how the bacteria on our genitals prevents infection. And yes, I ask which antibody most correlates with your personality and why. I think it makes the experience fun. How geeky and loserish. Your lack of passion about medicine isn't somehow balanced by a passion for life. A person can have both.

 

[Salinas]

-

 

[punkedoutriffs]

This is erroneous. I'm trying to think of some of the other students I mesh with due to our...eh...what some might call preoccupation with medicine...and I don't think any of us is so myopic that we don't have other interests. I'm not trying to boast but you'd be hard-pressed to find too many med students who are more well-traveled or have read more literature - Camus, Kafka, Hesse, French Revolution, books on Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. I fenced and played soccer in college. I watch game of thrones and dexter (albeit in blocks). When I go to clubs I actually dance and better than 90% of the population (not just med school population). So don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos that can't socially function unless we're talking about school. But sure...I make random analogies to the CNS ischemic response. Or get excited explaining to family how the bacteria on our genitals prevents infection. And yes, I ask which antibody most correlates with your personality and why. I think it makes the experience fun. How geeky and loserish. Your lack of passion about medicine isn't somehow balanced by a passion for life. A person can have both.

Thanks for your expansive life CV. At the end of the day, something's gotta give, though. And if it's a matter of different strokes for different folks, fine with me. But that's where it should end, not with an attendant smirk of moral superiority.

While I agree with much of your post (aside from the ravens part---they suck the big one)

How dare you, sir? How dare you?

And no, I agree with you on who you'd rather be around. Of course enthusiasm trumps apathetic complaining. There's a point though, at which enthusiasm becomes affectation, which is when it becomes annoying.

 

[JP2740]

hah! I guess it's weird to think studying is fun? Is it weird to get preoccupied by the dictionary.com page when they mention origins of words too? I guess we're all made differently. Whatever cool guy.



This I can agree with. There are certainly times when I feel exasperated, but mostly I want to be surrounded by people who are excited about the material. It's been a real let-down seeing how many people in med school really don't like it all that much. I've heard people are more into it during residency.



I have those periods of burn-out as well and I've had to learn to pace myself better. It's frustrating to want to know about it all at a rate the brain can't handle.


This is erroneous. I'm trying to think of some of the other students I mesh with due to our...eh...what some might call preoccupation with medicine...and I don't think any of us is so myopic that we don't have other interests. I'm not trying to boast but you'd be hard-pressed to find too many med students who are more well-traveled or have read more literature - Camus, Kafka, Hesse, French Revolution, books on Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. I fenced and played soccer in college. I watch game of thrones and dexter (albeit in blocks). When I go to clubs I actually dance and better than 90% of the population (not just med school population). So don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos that can't socially function unless we're talking about school. But sure...I make random analogies to the CNS ischemic response. Or get excited explaining to family how the bacteria on our genitals prevents infection. And yes, I ask which antibody most correlates with your personality and why. I think it makes the experience fun. How geeky and loserish. Your lack of passion about medicine isn't somehow balanced by a passion for life. A person can have both.

Good post. Make love to me.

 

[CDI]

When I go to clubs I actually dance and better than 90% of the population (not just med school population).

I'm calling you out on this...

 

[Unzbuzzled]

To the OP:
Seems like the people who like 1st and 2nd year the least are the ones who love medicine the most. I think you should stick it out, and maybe pursue something math/physics-oriented like rads or rad onc.

Best of luck!

 

[Anastomoses]

Good post. Make love to me.

Hi you.

I'm calling you out on this...

haha.

There's also a lot of misinformation about first and second year information being "minutia" or irrelevant. The way people talk around here, you'd think one could just skip the first two years and learn everything 3rd year. Complete horse****.

Right! Initially I kept trying to figure out which aspects would be clinically relevant but I find that almost everything could contribute in some way to ones enhanced understanding. Ironically I think people who pay rapt attention and incorporate in physio, histo and biochem make their lives much easier down the road. There's fortunately so much overlapping repetition.

 

[CDI]

haha.

I take back my call-out after finding out you got some "ethnic" in you. Carry on.

 

[evilbooyaa]

This is erroneous. I'm trying to think of some of the other students I mesh with due to our...eh...what some might call preoccupation with medicine...and I don't think any of us is so myopic that we don't have other interests. I'm not trying to boast but you'd be hard-pressed to find too many med students who are more well-traveled or have read more literature - Camus, Kafka, Hesse, French Revolution, books on Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. I fenced and played soccer in college. I watch game of thrones and dexter (albeit in blocks). When I go to clubs I actually dance and better than 90% of the population (not just med school population). So don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos that can't socially function unless we're talking about school. But sure...I make random analogies to the CNS ischemic response. Or get excited explaining to family how the bacteria on our genitals prevents infection. And yes, I ask which antibody most correlates with your personality and why. I think it makes the experience fun. How geeky and loserish. Your lack of passion about medicine isn't somehow balanced by a passion for life. A person can have both.

Holy. Balls. You are so full of yourself. Enjoy MS3. Check out bodybuilding.com, your ego would fit in very well there.

 

[CDI]

Holy. Balls. You are so full of yourself. Enjoy MS3. Check out bodybuilding.com, your ego would fit in very well there.

Is her insecurity that obvious?

 

[Pasmal]

Anastomoses, the more I read your posts the more I realize how ridiculous you are. People have said that nicely to you here and decided not to grill you (probably because they dread typing it all out), but I feel up to the task.

Let's start with your first post:

Actually some of us who ARE really into it think the rest of you are losers and we wish you'd stop making the whole experience less interesting and exciting. Haters. I am actually about fed up with med students who aren't as excited about material. They should have separate classes for them. Argh.

Is there a reason somebody has to make one of these "i'm so unhappy, I think I should drop out" posts every 3 days?? Annoying.

WOW do you come in swinging!

Everything in this statement is inflammatory. The rest of you are losers? Separate classes? Give me a break. Also, OP might not be some whiner who's tired of M1, it sounds like he's seriously considering an alternate path. Who are you to criticize that? Do you know him? You have no authority to berate his appeal to SDN for advice on what could be one of the most important decisions of his life... seriously, how dare you.

This is erroneous. I'm trying to think of some of the other students I mesh with due to our...eh...what some might call preoccupation with medicine...and I don't think any of us is so myopic that we don't have other interests. I'm not trying to boast [removed due to lengthy boasting]. So don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos that can't socially function unless we're talking about school. But sure...I make random analogies to the CNS ischemic response. Or get excited explaining to family how the bacteria on our genitals prevents infection. And yes, I ask which antibody most correlates with your personality and why. I think it makes the experience fun. How geeky and loserish. Your lack of passion about medicine isn't somehow balanced by a passion for life. A person can have both.

People like you APPEAR to be blown away by the fact that you're going against the gradient. You create this dichotomous situation where either one either is or is not "preoccupied" with medicine. You even go out of your way to make sure people know this dichotomy exists with comments like "don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos..." Based on the fact that you're a med student, I'd say you're probably smart enough to have known that before you said anything. In fact, I think that was your primary intention (revisit: APPEAR). You create this rift between a majority (that's us) and a minority (that's you and whoever else is in your fun medicine-or-die group). Even on a website like SDN, you have to KNOW by human nature that we fall primarily in the former category. When we reply to your comments, you turn the conversation into a defense of this "group" that you created. You intensify the rift you've created between these two groups by stating that the group of people who is not "preoccupied" with medicine has a "lack of passion about medicine" and that "a person can have both" a passion for life and medicine, with the logically inferred claim that YOU are such a model med student.

This isn't about a group of people like you who enjoy studying a lot. This is about you trying to get attention. I know people like you and I stay far away from them. They create drama that sucks other people in. I don't know why you're doing it, but usually they do it because they're not getting as much out of life as they want.

Maybe you don't actually enjoy being "preoccupied" as much as you thought.

TL;DR version: look up all the synonyms for pretentious on that dictionary.com site you love so much, and make sure on graduation day you ask for the MD-lite degree (it's less calories and comes sans ego boost).

 

[CDI]

Anastomoses, the more I read your posts the more I realize how ridiculous you are. People have said that nicely to you here and decided not to grill you (probably because they dread typing it all out), but I feel up to the task.

Let's start with your first post:



WOW do you come in swinging!

Everything in this statement is inflammatory. The rest of you are losers? Separate classes? Give me a break. Also, OP might not be some whiner who's tired of M1, it sounds like he's seriously considering an alternate path. Who are you to criticize that? Do you know him? You have no authority to berate his appeal to SDN for advice on what could be one of the most important decisions of his life... seriously, how dare you.



People like you APPEAR to be blown away by the fact that you're going against the gradient. You create this dichotomous situation where either one either is or is not "preoccupied" with medicine. You even go out of your way to make sure people know this dichotomy exists with comments like "don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos..." Based on the fact that you're a med student, I'd say you're probably smart enough to have known that before you said anything. In fact, I think that was your primary intention (revisit: APPEAR). You create this rift between a majority (that's us) and a minority (that's you and whoever else is in your fun medicine-or-die group). Even on a website like SDN, you have to KNOW by human nature that we fall primarily in the former category. When we reply to your comments, you turn the conversation into a defense of this "group" that you created. You intensify the rift you've created between these two groups by stating that the group of people who is not "preoccupied" with medicine has a "lack of passion about medicine" and that "a person can have both" a passion for life and medicine, with the logically inferred claim that YOU are such a model med student.

This isn't about a group of people like you who enjoy studying a lot. This is about you trying to get attention. I know people like you and I stay far away from them. They create drama that sucks other people in. I don't know why you're doing it, but usually they do it because they're not getting as much out of life as they want.

Maybe you don't actually enjoy being "preoccupied" as much as you thought.

TL;DR version: look up all the synonyms for pretentious on that dictionary.com site you love so much, and make sure on graduation day you ask for the MD-lite degree (it's less calories and comes sans ego boost).

Where there is a troll...a troll-feeder is sure to follow.

"I know people like you and I stay far away from them."

Is that like arms-length or internet length?

 

[Pasmal]

Where there is a troll...a troll-feeder is sure to follow.

Imagine being in OP's situation and hearing that... idk. Made me feel better. And it gave me something to think about/keep me awake during the low points at work.

Is that like arms-length or internet length?

Haha touché. I think I'm done with comebacks for today.

 

[punkedoutriffs]

Haha touché. I think I'm done with comebacks for today.

And well-crafted comebacks they were.

 

[MrDuder]

Um...how can someone go through M1 without taking embryology or anatomy? I can't speak to pharma yet.

Those two were my least favorite subjects of first year and they were STILL somewhat fascinating. How can learning about how incomplete closure of the neural tube --> spina bifida NOT be fascinating...how can it not be super cool the day you're leaning into your elbow and realize - oops, I'm compressing my ulnar nerve and wow, yeah my medial two fingers are numb! not be awesome? Or hey, why isn't my abductor hallucis abducting and instead just extending every time I try. I mean...people who lack intellectual curiosity in their subjects are just pffft...I really couldn't care. I guess I wish they had schools specifically for people who love this sh--! So we losers could all hang out and geek out to the details. I think you smell.



Nobody tells you to be grateful. Least of all for the Kreb's Cycle... It's just really frustrating being surrounded by people who are basically trying to learn the bare minimum required to do well on an exam or Step I. Like get into it already...EVEN IF IT'S NOT ON THE EXAM. This is some of the coolest stuff you could possibly understand. It's almost like having a super power...knowing how everything in the human body works. You don't want to savor it? ...then don't.

I don't even comprehend how we justify teaching algebra II to HS students and not medical physiology.

Algebra is more widely used than medical physiology. Its used in basically all technical fields. Even people doing accounting and business do algebra once and a while.

 

[Kahreek]

Jolly perfect you hate sciences, because clinical medicine has none of it.

 

[Dangu]

Finished first year and I am really debating if I want to continue. I don't know how my perspective changed so dramatically, but I worked extremely hard to get accepted and after first year I feel I made a terrible mistake. I know the first two years are bad, but all of my classmates seem to love every second of it, while I have been miserable/depressed the entire time.

In retrospect I probably entered down this path for the wrong reasons. I've realized that I have never really liked science. I sucked it up to get through the undergrad prereqs, but I'm terrible at route memorization, and I've always preferred math-based subjects. I have tried to shadow various specialties throughout first year to see if I could find something I liked enough to stick it out and after each experience I have even less of a desire to pursue a career in clinical medicine. I'm on track to graduate well over 300,000 dollars in debt if I continue and I seriously get physically sick every time I think about it. My own stress and reservations are also dramatically enhanced when I hear just about every physician I interact with complain about the toxic liability environment, midlevel competition, declining reimbursements and the unsustainable patient volume they deal with.

I was wondering if anyone has seen any of their classmates drop out and what they ended up doing career wise? I know having an MD would open up some doors, but I don't think I can stick it out for another 3 years or stomach the debt accumulation that it would require. Is there any masters degrees that I could pursue that I would be able to apply credits from my first year?

I'll tell you about my friend, for what it's worth. She dropped out after M1, with a fresh 50 grand debt. She doesn't like to admit it but I believe it was a combination of exhaustion, homesickness, and fear of massive debt. After picking up several retail jobs to tide her over before making her next career decision, she went with a Masters in Educ. She's going to stick with teaching high school. She has her fleeting moments of regret, sometimes contemplating reapplication, so I'm not sure if she made a good or bad move--time will tell.

Be sure. Be absolutely sure. Medicine is a vast field with diverse opportunities. It's more unlikely you won't find something you enjoy during rotations, if you decide to stay. The fact that you got accepted in the first place suggests you had a passion for medicine at one point, don't let the academic rigor stop you from pursuing it. There are plenty of up-and-coming research facilities that would love to take on an MD who enjoys working numbers--Clinical Pharmacology, Circuit Neurobiology, Chemotherapy, Enzyme research, even prosthetics and artificial organs!

Seriously, just google Mathematics and Medicine. Don't worry about your classmates; how do you define happiness? Suffering?
"I'm choosing happiness over suffering, I know I am. I'm making space for the unknown future to fill up my life with yet-to-come surprises." -E. Gilbert

 

[Dangu]

Finished first year and I am really debating if I want to continue. I don't know how my perspective changed so dramatically, but I worked extremely hard to get accepted and after first year I feel I made a terrible mistake. I know the first two years are bad, but all of my classmates seem to love every second of it, while I have been miserable/depressed the entire time.

In retrospect I probably entered down this path for the wrong reasons. I've realized that I have never really liked science. I sucked it up to get through the undergrad prereqs, but I'm terrible at route memorization, and I've always preferred math-based subjects. I have tried to shadow various specialties throughout first year to see if I could find something I liked enough to stick it out and after each experience I have even less of a desire to pursue a career in clinical medicine. I'm on track to graduate well over 300,000 dollars in debt if I continue and I seriously get physically sick every time I think about it. My own stress and reservations are also dramatically enhanced when I hear just about every physician I interact with complain about the toxic liability environment, midlevel competition, declining reimbursements and the unsustainable patient volume they deal with.

I was wondering if anyone has seen any of their classmates drop out and what they ended up doing career wise? I know having an MD would open up some doors, but I don't think I can stick it out for another 3 years or stomach the debt accumulation that it would require. Is there any masters degrees that I could pursue that I would be able to apply credits from my first year?

I'll tell you about my friend, for what it's worth. She dropped out after M1, with a fresh 50 grand debt. She doesn't like to admit it but I believe it was a combination of exhaustion, homesickness, and fear of massive debt. After picking up several retail jobs to tide her over before making her next career decision, she went with a Masters in Educ. She's going to stick with teaching high school. She has her fleeting moments of regret, sometimes contemplating reapplication, so I'm not sure if she made a good or bad move--time will tell.

Be sure. Be absolutely sure. Medicine is a vast field with diverse opportunities. It's more unlikely you won't find something you enjoy during rotations, if you decide to stay. The fact that you got accepted in the first place suggests you had a passion for medicine at one point, don't let the academic rigor stop you from pursuing it. There are plenty of up-and-coming research facilities that would love to take on an MD who enjoys working numbers--Clinical Pharmacology, Circuit Neurobiology, Chemotherapy, Enzyme research, even prosthetics and artificial organs!

Seriously, just google Mathematics and Medicine. Don't worry about your classmates; how do you define happiness? Suffering?
"I'm choosing happiness over suffering, I know I am. I'm making space for the unknown future to fill up my life with yet-to-come surprises." -E. Gilbert

 

[exquisitemelody]

Reading the original post: *hm...I've had these thoughts*

Reading the rest of the thread and seeing it digress: O_O



OP: What kind of support group do you have? The transition to med school was rough for me - I wasn't making friends easily, I felt alone, the material was hard, and it was a bit miserable. To be honest, looking back first year, there were very few times where I was like ZOMG THIS IS SO FREAKING AWESOME. A lot of times I was just like "well, that's interesting, but...*shrugs*" My feelings are in the middle of dislike and like. It's hard to explain. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is, if you don't have a good support group in classmates, try to find some people (easier said than done, I know), and in the meantime, talk to your advisor or dean or someone higher up who can talk to you about this. You aren't the only student who has thought this, and they would be able to help you sort your thoughts out and get to the root of the problem.

You were accepted for a reason - there was sufficient evidence in your application and interview that you'd make a good doctor, that the school had enough faith in you to say "I am okay with this person representing our school for the rest of their life. I'm okay with this person hanging our degree on their office wall for everyone to see."

So, hang in there and talk to some higher ups about this. You aren't the first student to feel this way, and you won't be the last.


For the rest of the thread discussion: My two cents - having an enthusiastic classmate is great. I definitely agree that I'd rather surround myself with people who are interested in learning than with people who complain and wish they weren't there. However, there's a line between those who complain, but are still okay emotionally in the end, and those who are really struggling emotionally, and you shouldn't just group them all together and tell them to suck it up or get out. Depression is a real issue with med students. While I haven't experienced it myself (sure, I was miserable, but not clinically depressed), I know those who have, and having classmates who think "dude, suck it up or get out. quit whining" just makes the situation worse.

 

[circulus vitios]

I'm not trying to boast but you'd be hard-pressed to find too many med students who are more well-traveled or have read more literature - Camus, Kafka, Hesse, French Revolution, books on Mao, Stalin, and Hitler. I fenced and played soccer in college.

MY FRENCH REVOLUTION LITERATURE

 

[Anastomoses]

=Pasmal;14276051

WOW do you come in swinging!

Everything in this statement is inflammatory. The rest of you are losers? Separate classes? Give me a break. Also, OP might not be some whiner who's tired of M1, it sounds like he's seriously considering an alternate path. Who are you to criticize that? Do you know him? You have no authority to berate his appeal to SDN for advice on what could be one of the most important decisions of his life... seriously, how dare you.


People like you APPEAR to be blown away by the fact that you're going against the gradient. You create this dichotomous situation where either one either is or is not "preoccupied" with medicine. You even go out of your way to make sure people know this dichotomy exists with comments like "don't assume we're all four eyed drooling weirdos..." Based on the fact that you're a med student, I'd say you're probably smart enough to have known that before you said anything. In fact, I think that was your primary intention (revisit: APPEAR). You create this rift between a majority (that's us) and a minority (that's you and whoever else is in your fun medicine-or-die group).

This isn't about a group of people like you who enjoy studying a lot. This is about you trying to get attention. I know people like you and I stay far away from them. They create drama that sucks other people in. I don't know why you're doing it, but usually they do it because they're not getting as much out of life as they want.

TL;DR version: look up all the synonyms for pretentious on that dictionary.com site you love so much, and make sure on graduation day you ask for the MD-lite degree (it's less calories and comes sans ego boost).

first off, my comment was obviously not directed at the OP as you very well know and pretend not to realize. i clearly quoted a specific person who called those who don't dislike their classes to be losers. why you're making a deceitful attempt to suggest I'm tearing down The OP is beyond me? Just want to get something of your chest maybe?

rift between groups?? what rift?

My only issue with OP is the same reworded despairing post about how awful medicine is and the supposed urge to drop out is posted by someone with less than 5 posts every 3 days. Seriously? medicine is soooo awful? that was my point. whatever you're projecting is really about you. sorry what you're studying doesnt excite you. pity party.

MD-lite? calories? what are you smoking on?

and if my ego is so big... making a post in homage to it probably isn't the way to go.

Where there is a troll...a troll-feeder is sure to follow.

"I know people like you and I stay far away from them."

Is that like arms-length or internet length?

you're a bit trolly yourself, you know.

Algebra is more widely used than medical physiology. Its used in basically all technical fields. Even people doing accounting and business do algebra once and a while.

you think the average American HS graduate uses algebra 2 more than encountering problems with their physiology? um...okay.