Thinking of dropping out of pharmacy school..

[sproles134]

I have a B.S. in Biology and within the next week, I am starting an accelerated pharmacy program.

Pharmacy school move-in day starts in a week and I am seriously considering completely dropping out of the school and save myself from the debt that I will pile on in the next 3-4 years.

After long deliberation, I've come to the conclusion that it's not worth going through 3 years of accelerated coursework and end up 200k+ (with interest) in debt and THEN have to WORRY about finding a job.

It's a ridiculous proposition that a pharmacist won't find a job after graduation, but I realized that it's reality and it's only going to get worse by the time I graduate in 3 years. I don't want to deal with being in tremendous debt and not be able to find a job like a lot of people graduating pharmacy school nowadays.

I could be a delusional human being and just go into pharmacy, completely forget what's happening in the economy (specifically in the retail pharmacy sector) and go to pharmacy school anyway for the HOPE that the situation will improve and jobs are going to be magically available. However, I don't see how this will be happening, at all. It will only get worse, IMO. How could it possible be better when older pharmacists are staying longer and not retiring, thousands of new students graduating every year, the economy going down the ****ter, etc, etc.

My loans haven't been disbursed yet, so I still have time to completely undo this and turn my life around to a different path. Maybe go back to school for another 2 years and take on Electrical Engineering or something like that (where I know that getting a job will be easier than it is for pharmacists)? I do have an interest in math and physics and in 3-4 years, I could complete a 2nd bachelor's and finish my master's.

What do you think I should do in this scenario? Any help or input is greatly appreciated.

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[moolman]

Yawn..... I have an engineering degree too....

This topic has been beaten to death.... I think I went to a EE forum and that guy is quitting EE to go to pharmacy..

So let me summarize the responses

1. Troll
2. It's not too bad, hang in there
3. You're right
4. You're lame

What did you want as a response that wasn't given tons before, if you are real just quit, it's your life nobody here gives two cents in a crap bucket.

 

[pezdispenser]

Well done for thinking rationally about this. At the very least, do not go to that school if you'll be 200k in debt. I feel that those programs are a relic of the era when we were desperate for pharmacists, and you were pretty much guaranteed a 30k sign on bonus and loads of overtime so making $160k/yr was common. Needless to say, that is not the case now, and extremely unlikely in the next few years. So 200k in debt is going to crush you on a pharmacist's salary, more so if you don't even get a job.

 

[R xxx]

I tell people all the time that if I knew then what I know now, I wouldn't go into pharmacy. But pharmacy was a lot different than then it is now. I think $200K in debt is a bit too much for a job that has low satisfaction. I don't know much about EE to say that it will be better than pharmacy.

1. Do you want to be $200K in debt?
2. Can you work 14-hour shift with no lunch break?
3. Can you work for a company that doesn't give crap about you?
4. Can you be expected to perform like a robot every day?

I know it is probably very stressful for you right now as you are unsure of what you want to do. But if you go into it being unsure, you will hate it every time something goes wrong. Currently, I have a very good job, but even then, I still don't love it. I don't hate it, but I don't love it.

 

[rph3664]

Have you ever worked in a pharmacy (and that includes hospital, long term care, infusion, compounding, etc.)? I get the impression that you haven't.

If you're having doubts this strong, chances are there's a reason and you should withdraw, preferably now so you won't incur any extra fees.

 

[sproles134]

Have you ever worked in a pharmacy (and that includes hospital, long term care, infusion, compounding, etc.)? I get the impression that you haven't.

If you're having doubts this strong, chances are there's a reason and you should withdraw, preferably now so you won't incur any extra fees.

Does it really matter? Really?

The point is that the retail pharmacy is saturated and it will be moreso in the next few years. More grads are entering the workforce for a limited number of positions. More and more graduates are unemployed and have to go other routes to manage their debt. These old bags of garbage don't seem like they will retire like they used to, which is even more detrimental for incoming graduates.

All I can see for the future is for the big chain pharmacies to take advantage of this in the future, offering lower salaries and less full time employment, because they can. Because people will do it.

I can be optimistic and say that getting 200k+ in debt is worth it and jobs will be coming, but I don't see it at all. I see the opposite.

It's not about the job itself that I'm worried about, just the economic outlook when I graduate. It's getting worse year by year and it's not looking like it will stop.

The last thing I want to do is be unemployed after completing a damn PharmD with accruing interest and rising debt. I mean, the future is so uncertain that I don't feel comfortable at all investing so much time and money into something so unstable.

To answer your question, I shadowed a retail pharmacy years ago.

 

[Shnurek]

I think you are doing the right thing. The PharmD. degree really took off in popularity like around 1995. There were only 1,244 PharmD. graduates in 1990 and now there are 11,873 that graduated in 2010. That's a huge increase. I think the demand will be greatly lessened by this initial rise of supply (past 20 years). I'd say there is going to be a recessed period and then a recovery period with finally things going back up again. If you go into school now you'd probably get out in the middle of the recessed period. And you'd have to wait it out 5-10 years for things to stabilize again.

The dentists experienced this and cut back dentist graduation rates like around 20% back in the 80's. Then things took like 10-20 years to stabilize again and now they are (for the time being) ahead of the pack. By being the best compensated health profession for the amount of hours worked.

200k of money that you do not have is a ludicrous amount especially at today's 6.8% and 7.9% loans that accrue interest immediately after you take them out. So by the time you graduate you'll have like 270k or so of real loan money to pay back. (I didn't do the exact calculation)

Again, this is just my personal speculation and has no scientific basis whatsoever except for the statistics.

 

[Rx MPLS]

It's not considered dropping out if you never started. Quit being so dramatic. If you can't swing it financially or emotionally, or if it's not for you, don't go. It's as simple as that!

 

[abc1234567]

Does it really matter? Really?

The point is that the retail pharmacy is saturated and it will be moreso in the next few years. More grads are entering the workforce for a limited number of positions. More and more graduates are unemployed and have to go other routes to manage their debt. These old bags of garbage don't seem like they will retire like they used to, which is even more detrimental for incoming graduates.

All I can see for the future is for the big chain pharmacies to take advantage of this in the future, offering lower salaries and less full time employment, because they can. Because people will do it.

I can be optimistic and say that getting 200k+ in debt is worth it and jobs will be coming, but I don't see it at all. I see the opposite.

It's not about the job itself that I'm worried about, just the economic outlook when I graduate. It's getting worse year by year and it's not looking like it will stop.

The last thing I want to do is be unemployed after completing a damn PharmD with accruing interest and rising debt. I mean, the future is so uncertain that I don't feel comfortable at all investing so much time and money into something so unstable.

To answer your question, I shadowed a retail pharmacy years ago.

I am tired of reading that retail pharmacy is saturated. Retail is not saturated it is intolerable.
Not long ago my district had 15 pharmacist positions and that was before I switched to PRN.

 

[KARM12]

These old bags of garbage don't seem like they will retire like they used to, which is even more detrimental for incoming graduates.

Great way to refer to your future colleagues.

 

[sproles134]

It's not considered dropping out if you never started. Quit being so dramatic. If you can't swing it financially or emotionally, or if it's not for you, don't go. It's as simple as that!

I'm dramatic because I'm angry...I'm angry that there is a good chance I will end up jobless, even with a PharmD degree. All this time, I was excited to attend school and become a pharmacist and as a byproduct, make a good living.

It's depressing that this is starting to be the exception rather than the norm. All this talk about graduates not finding work, lower pay, automated machinery and such, I don't see a bright future for pharmacists.

Please tell me I'm wrong, please.

 

[30Percent]

Honestly the only thing I can tell you is the same generic advice you've probably already heard. Do well in your classes and at rotations. Establish a good network and maybe you'll land a job after you graduate.

 

[pharm4312]

I'm dramatic because I'm angry...I'm angry that there is a good chance I will end up jobless, even with a PharmD degree. All this time, I was excited to attend school and become a pharmacist and as a byproduct, make a good living.

It's depressing that this is starting to be the exception rather than the norm. All this talk about graduates not finding work, lower pay, automated machinery and such, I don't see a bright future for pharmacists.

Please tell me I'm wrong, please.

Sounds to me like you're panicking before the commitment. I did the same. Midway through school now...and I'm still not sure if it was right. I probably would not do it again.
As far as the debt, 200k will be difficult to pay on a pharmacist salary, regardless of whether you find a job. Public service loan forgiveness is the best bet on that salary (pay 10% of pre tax income for 10 years in any not for profit that serves the public, like hospitals).

 

[sproles134]

I look at this in a risk vs reward viewpoint...

Possible Risk:
-Being unemployed after graduation due to limited position and an ever increasing pool of pharmacists
-200k+ in debt after graduation with the possibility of not working
-If job is found later on, there is a large possibility that salaries are going to decrease due to the applicant pool and the big pharmaceutical companies taking advantage of the fact that they are the ones that are hiring and having the ability to lower salaries because people will have to work and can't really negotiate.
-Putting in tremendous amount of work, again, with the likely scenario of not finding the job that you were hoping to find (100K/year).

Possible Reward:
-PharmD degree, automatically puts you in the top 5% of earners and education.
-Live a comfortable and stable life after paying off loans (which could be done within 5 years if salaries are as high as they used to be).
-Make 100k/year for the rest of your life. Strong earning potential throughout.

Now, I'm not talking about the stresses of the job and the complaints. Let's face it, every job has something annoying and stressful about it. It's the fact that the risks far outweigh the rewards right now.

Any input?

 

[All4MyDaughter]

I look at this in a risk vs reward viewpoint...

Possible Risk:
-Being unemployed after graduation due to limited position and an ever increasing pool of pharmacists
-200k+ in debt after graduation with the possibility of not working
-If job is found later on, there is a large possibility that salaries are going to decrease due to the applicant pool and the big pharmaceutical companies taking advantage of the fact that they are the ones that are hiring and having the ability to lower salaries because people will have to work and can't really negotiate.
-Putting in tremendous amount of work, again, with the likely scenario of not finding the job that you were hoping to find (100K/year).

Possible Reward:
-PharmD degree, automatically puts you in the top 5% of earners and education.
-Live a comfortable and stable life after paying off loans (which could be done within 5 years if salaries are as high as they used to be).
-Make 100k/year for the rest of your life. Strong earning potential throughout.

Now, I'm not talking about the stresses of the job and the complaints. Let's face it, every job has something annoying and stressful about it. It's the fact that the risks far outweigh the rewards right now.

Any input?

Do you really think that most pharmacists will be unemployed? If you do, and you don't want to be a pharmacist, don't do it.

 

[moolman]

Yawn... Get out while you can.

 

[sproles134]

Honestly the only thing I can tell you is the same generic advice you've probably already heard. Do well in your classes and at rotations. Establish a good network and maybe you'll land a job after you graduate.

That's what I'm afraid of..."maybe." The fact that people are risking being in debt for almost a quarter of a million dollars for only the possibility to find a job, bothers me to no end.

Sounds to me like you're panicking before the commitment. I did the same. Midway through school now...and I'm still not sure if it was right. I probably would not do it again.
As far as the debt, 200k will be difficult to pay on a pharmacist salary, regardless of whether you find a job. Public service loan forgiveness is the best bet on that salary (pay 10% of pre tax income for 10 years in any not for profit that serves the public, like hospitals).

I see a lot of cases where current pharmacy students regret going because of the employment outlook. I was ready to be 200k in debt after graduation, but reading all these things about the pharmacy job market now and in the future really had me second guessing my decision.

 

[Rx MPLS]

I'm dramatic because I'm angry...I'm angry that there is a good chance I will end up jobless, even with a PharmD degree. All this time, I was excited to attend school and become a pharmacist and as a byproduct, make a good living.

It's depressing that this is starting to be the exception rather than the norm. All this talk about graduates not finding work, lower pay, automated machinery and such, I don't see a bright future for pharmacists.

Please tell me I'm wrong, please.

You're not wrong. You shouldn't go to pharmacy school if this is your gut feeling and your general attitude. $200k in loans is a lot more than I would ever spend on school, too.

 

[sproles134]

Do you really think that most pharmacists will be unemployed? If you do, and you don't want to be a pharmacist, don't do it.

No.

But the way things are looking like right now, it doesn't seem too far fetched.

 

[Its Z]

I think you are doing the right thing. The PharmD. degree really took off in popularity like around 1995. There were only 1,244 PharmD. graduates in 1990 and now there are 11,873 that graduated in 2010. That's a huge increase. I think the demand will be greatly lessened by this initial rise of supply (past 20 years).

This is not entirely accurate. Granted, the number of new PharmDs in 1995 (which I was one of) is accurate, there were around 7,000 new pharmacists that year. The conversion of BSPharm to PharmD didn't fully occur until after 2000.

The reason for the decreased demand is due to the throttle back mode of retail expansion.
Healthcare system pharmacist demand has not changed much. Of course pharmacist supply has increased a bunch.

 

[pharm B]

The reason for the decreased demand is due to the throttle back mode of retail expansion.
Healthcare system pharmacist demand has not changed much. Of course pharmacist supply has increased a bunch.

I like your revised signature. A changed man!

 

[Momus]

That's what I'm afraid of..."maybe." The fact that people are risking being in debt for almost a quarter of a million dollars for only the possibility to find a job, bothers me to no end.

I see a lot of cases where current pharmacy students regret going because of the employment outlook. I was ready to be 200k in debt after graduation, but reading all these things about the pharmacy job market now and in the future really had me second guessing my decision.

You are not even P1 and already know pharmacist job outlook in the next 10 years.. unless your GPA sucks/border line... just change your status to pre-med, and never again having a second thought how secure your job is. More money, more prestige, more options. Problem solved.

 

[sproles134]

You are not even P1 and already know pharmacist job outlook in the next 10 years.. unless your GPA sucks/border line... just change your status to pre-med, and never again having a second thought how secure your job is. More money, more prestige, more options. Problem solved.

Sarcasm detector has the needle moving...but not sure if it's quite sarcasm.

What do you think of all this? You are a pharmacist and I value your opinion.

 

[CareDD]

It appears to me that you have taken a peek at the dental forum. Based on your stated potential risks and rewards, I think dentistry might fit you better.

 

[BenJammin]

You're dropping out because you think you won't be able to find a job? You would have been a crappy student anyway with that attitude. To quote moolman, you're lame.

 

[mustang sally]

It's a hard question with no easy answers...but you don't seem too excited about pharmacy so I would say it's probably a good call to go into another profession.

 

[rph3664]

Does it really matter? Really?

It absolutely does matter. I made sure to work in a pharmacy before I headed into this, because I wanted to know what the job itself was really like. My first job was as a volunteer in a hospital pharmacy; getting an actual paid job was nearly impossible because there was (and still is) a pharmacy school in my hometown. And this was back in the days when employers came to US.

Lots of people, in this and other fields too, find the theory interesting and the practice not to their liking, for whatever reasons.

 

[GoldfishPharmD]

What are you expecting people to say exactly? No one can tell you what to do. It's your life. Getting a job is tough for pretty much everyone right now. That's life. If you're worried that you may actually have to work and put in some effort to find a job then get out of pharmacy. If you're going to quit, you better do it now.

 

[RxRunner]

I have to say I was too naive to know what I was getting into, I was 22-years-old for Pete's sake, I remember finishing my P2 year and sitting at my desk wondering if should drop out because I didn't want to add 40,000 over the last two years to my 10,000 in loans. (I was in-state).

If I was worried about debt, and wasn't so naive, I would have gone into a master's or PhD program where they let me go to school for free and paid me to teach their undergraduate students.

If I was worried about having a job in ten years, I would have become a medical doctor.

The best answer to your question, I believe, is to wait a year and make a decision then, you need time and clarity.

 

[KARM12]

It sounds like you really aren't interesting in being a pharmacist. Better to quit now than sink 200K into a career you hate.

 

[sproles134]

What are you expecting people to say exactly? No one can tell you what to do. It's your life. Getting a job is tough for pretty much everyone right now. That's life. If you're worried that you may actually have to work and put in some effort to find a job then get out of pharmacy. If you're going to quit, you better do it now.

I agree with this, but pharmacy student aren't like "pretty much everyone." Most pharmacy students are in debt around 150k or even more and work their tail off in school. You better believe that I want some job security if I sacrifice 200k in loans as well as 3 years of my life in an accelerated program, studying my ass off non-stop.

That security isn't there anymore, therefore I don't think the reward is worth the risk.

I have to say I was too naive to know what I was getting into, I was 22-years-old for Pete's sake, I remember finishing my P2 year and sitting at my desk wondering if should drop out because I didn't want to add 40,000 over the last two years to my 10,000 in loans. (I was in-state).

If I was worried about debt, and wasn't so naive, I would have gone into a master's or PhD program where they let me go to school for free and paid me to teach their undergraduate students.

If I was worried about having a job in ten years, I would have become a medical doctor.

The best answer to your question, I believe, is to wait a year and make a decision then, you need time and clarity.

I've thought about it over and over again and decided to just drop out completely. I can finish an engineering degree in 2 year's time with minimal to no debt and make around 60k with potential to go even higher in the future. Low risk, high reward.

 

[sproles134]

It sounds like you really aren't interesting in being a pharmacist. Better to quit now than sink 200K into a career you hate.

I had an interest in pharmacy...started when I took Endocrinology and Organic Chemistry and fell in love with drug synthesis, drugs, hormones and the effects they have on the body. I found it profoundly interesting.

I chose retail pharmacy because it paid the most and was told that the job security would always be there, etc, etc, etc. I'm not going to lie, I was not too excited working behind the counters and be the customer's bitch.

Couple this with the fact that the future employment situation doesn't look promising (especially when I would be graduating, in 2015), I just decided to completely part with pharmacy and pursue my other passion.

"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." -Confucius

 

[rph3664]

I had an interest in pharmacy...started when I took Endocrinology and Organic Chemistry and fell in love with drug synthesis, drugs, hormones and the effects they have on the body. I found it profoundly interesting.

I chose retail pharmacy because it paid the most and was told that the job security would always be there, etc, etc, etc. I'm not going to lie, I was not too excited working behind the counters and be the customer's bitch.

Couple this with the fact that the future employment situation doesn't look promising (especially when I would be graduating, in 2015), I just decided to completely part with pharmacy and pursue my other passion.

"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." -Confucius

Paragraph 1: It sounds like you'd be happier working in research than the hands-on practice of pharmacy.

P. 2: I knew a lady in my old town who was an assistant manager at Steak & Shake. She said to me one time, "How do you know so much about fast food? I thought you were a pharmacist" and I replied, "You're right, I am, but I haven't always been, and the jobs are not as different as you might think they are."

 

[twizzlers713]

Get out dawg

 

[UES Girl]

You should drop out now and let someone who really wants to go into profession have your spot. Best now thnt a year from later wasting a spot.

 

[Rph888]

I had an interest in pharmacy...started when I took Endocrinology and Organic Chemistry and fell in love with drug synthesis, drugs, hormones and the effects they have on the body. I found it profoundly interesting.

I chose retail pharmacy because it paid the most and was told that the job security would always be there, etc, etc, etc. I'm not going to lie, I was not too excited working behind the counters and be the customer's bitch.

Couple this with the fact that the future employment situation doesn't look promising (especially when I would be graduating, in 2015), I just decided to completely part with pharmacy and pursue my other passion.

"Choose a job you love, and you will never have to work a day in your life." -Confucius

If you don't mind me asking, what school? And was there a tuition refund?

As a P4, I truly believe you are making the right choice.

 

[sproles134]

If you don't mind me asking, what school? And was there a tuition refund?

As a P4, I truly believe you are making the right choice.

It's MCPHS...I think I'm making the right choice. Especially here in MA, getting a solid pharmacist position is very, very difficult. It will only get worse in the upcoming years.

 

[SHC1984]

I drop out of an Ivy League dental school that only accept 75 students out of over 3000+ applicants a year. (even more competitive now I am sure.)

Best thing I ever did. I will miss the prestige and the potential salary...but I will NOT miss the actual job as being a dentist really sucks ass.

I say drop out and marry a rich guy if you are a woman (You have to be HOT of course).

I say drop out and go to medical school if you are a man (MD=more HOT chicks and prestige for you)

Good luck.

 

[SMDoc]

I drop out of an Ivy League dental school that only accept 75 students out of over 3000+ applicants a year. (even more competitive now I am sure.)

Best thing I ever did. I will miss the prestige and the potential salary...but I will NOT miss the actual job as being a dentist really sucks ass.

I say drop out and marry a rich guy if you are a woman (You have to be HOT of course).

I say drop out and go to medical school if you are a man (MD=more HOT chicks and prestige for you)

Good luck.

Ivy League dental school?! I would trade spaces with you in a heart beat.

All those $$$ Industry jobs that were discussed a few years ago on this thread look awesome...

Hope some of them are still around when I graduate..

 

[BrightLight]

I say drop out and go to medical school if you are a man (MD=more HOT chicks and prestige for you)

Good luck.

Even if one practices family medicine?

 

[SHC1984]

Ivy League dental school?! I would trade spaces with you in a heart beat.

All those $$$ Industry jobs that were discussed a few years ago on this thread look awesome...

Hope some of them are still around when I graduate..

It's nothing. I would trade places with a successful international sales representative or famous weather girl on channel 9 then do pharmacy or dentistry.

Even if one practices family medicine?

They make 200K to 250K a year right? That's not too bad IMO.

 

[SHC1984]

OP needs to drop out ASAP.

I can name 10 careers right now that I rather do MORE than dentistry or pharmacy. LOL

1)Weather girl
2)Pharm Sales rep
3)International Sales rep
4)SUPER MODEL
5)Model in general
6)News anchor
7)Personal fitness trainer
8)Ballet dancer
9)Make up artist
10)Fashion designer
11)Interior decorator

That's actually 11 and I have a few more. LOL...

OP DROP OUT NOW. Before you get old like me.

 

[cycloketocaine]

It's nothing. I would trade places with a successful international sales representative or famous weather girl on channel 9 then do pharmacy or dentistry.



They make 200K to 250K a year right? That's not too bad IMO.

No, they make MAYBE 150.

 

[SHC1984]

No, they make MAYBE 150.

Eeee...

Okay nevermind....

I mean specialist ONLY.

If you are a guy drop out of pharmacy school and go specialize in medicine. I recommend Radiology personally.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Eeee...

Okay nevermind....

I mean specialist ONLY.

If you are a guy drop out of pharmacy school and go specialize in medicine. I recommend Radiology personally.

Lol so where are you looking for your husband/sugar daddy?

 

[SHC1984]

Lol so where are you looking for your husband/sugar daddy?

Well I am currently dating a Emory medical student. He is graduating next year.

But I can't get serious with him b/c I am moving out of state this weekend to do my rotations.... I'll be out of state for at least 7 months....

So God knows....

 

[cycloketocaine]

Well I am currently dating a Emory medical student. He is graduating next year.

But I can't get serious with him b/c I am moving out of state this weekend to do my rotations.... I'll be out of state for at least 7 months....

So God knows....

Hhhmmm....maybe keep him around, whats he going to specialize in?

 

[cycloketocaine]

OP needs to drop out ASAP.

I can name 10 careers right now that I rather do MORE than dentistry or pharmacy. LOL

1)Weather girl
2)Pharm Sales rep
3)International Sales rep
4)SUPER MODEL
5)Model in general
6)News anchor
7)Personal fitness trainer
8)Ballet dancer
9)Make up artist
10)Fashion designer
11)Interior decorator

That's actually 11 and I have a few more. LOL...

OP DROP OUT NOW. Before you get old like me.

And how old are you?

 

[pharm B]

Didn't you take the out of state rotation because of a dude you were hooked up with for a while? And then didn't your preceptor try to hook up with you while setting it up?

If you could, I'd say you should write a book.

 

[cycloketocaine]

Didn't you take the out of state rotation because of a dude you were hooked up with for a while? And then didn't your preceptor try to hook up with you while setting it up?

If you could, I'd say you should write a book.

Chit, don't egg her on.