thinking of premed ... junior in college? post-bacc advice?

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spavbhaji

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hi! tl;dr at bottom if you aren't interested in reading all of this (or want to see if it's worth ur time lol)! also sorry if this is posted in the wrong place, i'm new here and don't really know how to navigate :/

as the title says, i've been considering the possibility of going into medicine. i'm a current junior/rising senior at my flagship state school and orm (indian); cgpa is 3.7high (might go up depending on senior year), sgpa is nonexistent because i haven't taken a single science class thus far. i have taken statistics and a few other more "math-y" classes (game theory, calc, etc) and got As in all of them. i'm a history and polisci major (disadvantage?) and english/south asia studies minor. i'm heavily considering a post-bacc program; goucher, columbia, and bryn mawr seem especially interesting, and i like that most of them have in house mcat prep. my major concerns are a) will i be a competitive applicant for the "formal" post-bacc programs with linkage agreements, b) how exactly do these linkage agreements work and how competitve are they, c) are the "formal" post-bacc programs worth the cost compared to the diy post-bacc (i won't be going into debt but $50k is pretty 😳, esp on top of med school), d) would i be a competitive applicant for a top 70 md med school once i finish pre-reqs, in terms of experience and gpa (factoring out the mcat), and e) what sort of mcat score range would i want to get into a top 70 (ideally top 30) med school.

in terms research, i have absolutely no scientific research experience, and i don't know if it's possible to get considering i don't have a science background at all. i am, however, a research assistant for a polisci project where i work with a professor to statistically analyze women in politics. i'm also writing a thesis in history and did a semestor long independent research project, also in history, but again, none of these are scientific in nature, so idk if they add anything to my app.

i do, however, have pretty good ecs (i think). i was a critical language scholar for hindi last summer, in a pretty competitive fellowship within my university, and have a few minor university level scholarships. i'm also the president of four clubs (one of which is a volunteer club that works with the large homeless population within my majority-minority college town and the other is a chapter of the food recovery network that i began at my school), and i volunteer as a vpva crisis advocate (i serve as a confidential resource for victims of sexual/domestic violence, help them understand their options, and accompany them to the police office/nurse if necessary), at a south asian domestic violence women's shelter in my college town, and i'm going to be volunteering at a summer camp for children with major medical needs for two weeks this summer. needless to say, i have a pretty decent number of non-clinical volunteer hours. i also have a few internships but they are all polisci oriented (campaign and congressional). i have absolutely no clinical experience but i love children so i was thinking of applying to become a patient cuddler at my local children's hospital once i turn 21 (idk if this counts as clinical experience though.)

i also have no shadowing hours but my mother's a doctor (not practicing anymore) so we have family friends i could shadow, as well as a few relatives (is this allowed? do i have to find physicians that i don't already know?). like i said before, i ideally want to go to a top 70 med school (as do most, i'm aware) and in or close to a major metropolitan area on the east or west coast. tbh, geographical location is likely more important to me than ranking. with that said...

TL;DR:

A) Post-bacc -- to do, or not to do, that is the question: / whether tis' better to have a structured program / with in house mcat prep / or to take up the diy option / and be left possibly unmoored

B) College Confidential thread -- cc/pre-med-medical-school: "junior in college what are my chances for good post-bacc program plz help and how competitive are linkage agreements?"

C) u/spavbhaji on r/premed: "WAMC for top 70 med schools (preferably top 30) in metro area on east or west coast given lots of non-clinical volunteering + 3.7high cgpa? What MCAT score range should I aim for to be competitive at these schools?"

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For top 70, probably want a 513+

For top 30, probably want a 520+
 
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You don’t need a full post bacc - those are usually plan B for people who ruined their undergrad GPA and have cash to burn. The pre med pre reqs depend on the med school but consist of about 8 classes that you can take at your current institution: general biology, general chemistry 1 and 2, organic chemistry 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2 (algebra or calc based). Maybe a few other bio classes like genetics, micro, anatomy. Maybe biochemistry. You don’t need linkage from a post bacc if you do well in these classes.

Also not trying to be harsh but I recommend fix your shift key. There are people here who won’t take you seriously if you use nonstandard capitalization. On SDN you’re as likely to be talking to adcoms and physicians as other premeds so it behooves you to present professionally.

Best of luck.
 
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Why are you interested in medicine? You have no shadowing and no clinical experience, so I’m just curious as to what created this revelation when you have no exposure aside from your mom.

The medical school application process is grueling. You haven’t taken any science courses yet so you don’t really know if you’ll do well. The MCAT isn’t like the ACT or SAT. It makes those tests look like kindergarten and requires extensive knowledge in the sciences. Make sure this is what you want before you go down this path. If it’s money or prestige you’re after, there are easier ways to get there.
hi, so i was prelaw initially, and thinking of going into corporate law, but after volunteering quite a bit throughout undergrad, i started realizing going into a career for prestige/money wasn't really worth it. so no, me wanting to pursue medicine isn't because of either of those things.

and believe me, i know first hand how difficult (and all-consuming) medicine can be. my mother is an IMG who cannot practice because she couldn't match. my entire childhood consisted of her finishing her residency in india and studying for step, and it's kind of terrible when you're a kid and your mom's home but she still won't spend time with you lol. needless to say but yeah, i know how grueling the whole process can be and is.

the main reason i started considering medicine was the free bandaids due to my volunteer experiences during undergrad, particularly through my involvement with homeless community of my college town. there are three hospitals within walking distance and so many couldn't afford lifesaving care. the conversations i've had with a lot of them definitely ended up heightening my interest in medicine now. other than that, the idea of going into medicine/being a doctor was always very present in my life. the very first thing i wanted to be, as a four years old, was a cardiologist -- because both my grandfathers had died of heart attacks at 50 years old, right when i turned a year old. i didn't realize that cardiologists couldn't bring back the dead, and i was convinced i wouldn't be grandfather-less anymore.

i was also just a really sick child, constantly in and out of hospitals, and i loved my doctor, who would always try to cheer me up. i figured, as a kid, that i would like to make other sick kids feel better, and that still holds true. also also, i like the human body. i used to read my mom's textbooks for fun as a kid, and i remember explaining to her some of the stuff she couldn't understand. i memorized all the bones in the human skeleton when i was 8. i still find the diagnostic process fascinating, and i think that's what is truly making me consider medicine again. the puzzle of cataloging the symptoms and applying them to a diagnosis is so appealing to me.

academically, you're right. science classes are more difficult than humanities/social science, and the mcat is definitely an absolute beast. that's literally why i chose to go into law -- the path of least resistance and a relatively high payoff. however, my study habits have changed a lot since high school and the fact that i'm getting As in fairly hard math classes is definitely making me more optimistic. i've always been better at science than math, and i did really like biology in high school. i also do really well on standardized tests and while i know the mcat is likely harder than any of the others i took, i think my past trend is a good indicator (act of 35, lsat of 178). the mcat is also the main reason i'm looking more into structured post-baccs as opposed to diy post-baccs, because from what i've read, a lot of the really good post-bacc programs have in-house mcat prep.
 
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You don’t need a full post bacc - those are usually plan B for people who ruined their undergrad GPA and have cash to burn. The pre med pre reqs depend on the med school but consist of about 8 classes that you can take at your current institution: general biology, general chemistry 1 and 2, organic chemistry 1 and 2, physics 1 and 2 (algebra or calc based). Maybe a few other bio classes like genetics, micro, anatomy. Maybe biochemistry. You don’t need linkage from a post bacc if you do well in these classes.

Also not trying to be harsh but I recommend fix your shift key. There are people here who won’t take you seriously if you use nonstandard capitalization. On SDN you’re as likely to be talking to adcoms and physicians as other premeds so it behooves you to present professionally.

Best of luck.
Haha, thanks for your advice. Will use proper capitalization from now on. I didn't realise there were adcoms in the forums as well!

The issue with the 8 premed prerequisites + optional classes is that I graduate in a year and still need to take a few courses to finish a few of the programs I'm doing -- which is why I can only take most of the pre-reqs after graduation. I figured applying (and hopefully getting in and doing?) a post-bacc with a linkage would eliminate the need to take an extra gap year/glide year, since I'm already not following the traditional premed timeline.
 
Your goal as a junior is to graduate on time and in good standing with as high a GPA as you can. Get involved with clinical and non-clinical community service, and let the science coursework come if you are really interested. Many people will do a DIY post-bac or a "career changer" postbac to get those prerequisites, but you need the track record of working with people in real need and becoming more comfortable with uncomfortable circumstances unlike yourself. So keep doing what you are doing under the community service banner, get more clinical experience in different settings, and plan your coursework and timeline to apply.
 
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hi! tl;dr at bottom if you aren't interested in reading all of this (or want to see if it's worth ur time lol)! also sorry if this is posted in the wrong place, i'm new here and don't really know how to navigate :/

as the title says, i've been considering the possibility of going into medicine. i'm a current junior/rising senior at my flagship state school and orm (indian); cgpa is 3.7high (might go up depending on senior year), sgpa is nonexistent because i haven't taken a single science class thus far. i have taken statistics and a few other more "math-y" classes (game theory, calc, etc) and got As in all of them. i'm a history and polisci major (disadvantage?) and english/south asia studies minor. i'm heavily considering a post-bacc program; goucher, columbia, and bryn mawr seem especially interesting, and i like that most of them have in house mcat prep. my major concerns are a) will i be a competitive applicant for the "formal" post-bacc programs with linkage agreements, b) how exactly do these linkage agreements work and how competitve are they, c) are the "formal" post-bacc programs worth the cost compared to the diy post-bacc (i won't be going into debt but $50k is pretty 😳, esp on top of med school), d) would i be a competitive applicant for a top 70 md med school once i finish pre-reqs, in terms of experience and gpa (factoring out the mcat), and e) what sort of mcat score range would i want to get into a top 70 (ideally top 30) med school.

in terms research, i have absolutely no scientific research experience, and i don't know if it's possible to get considering i don't have a science background at all. i am, however, a research assistant for a polisci project where i work with a professor to statistically analyze women in politics. i'm also writing a thesis in history and did a semestor long independent research project, also in history, but again, none of these are scientific in nature, so idk if they add anything to my app.

i do, however, have pretty good ecs (i think). i was a critical language scholar for hindi last summer, in a pretty competitive fellowship within my university, and have a few minor university level scholarships. i'm also the president of four clubs (one of which is a volunteer club that works with the large homeless population within my majority-minority college town and the other is a chapter of the food recovery network that i began at my school), and i volunteer as a vpva crisis advocate (i serve as a confidential resource for victims of sexual/domestic violence, help them understand their options, and accompany them to the police office/nurse if necessary), at a south asian domestic violence women's shelter in my college town, and i'm going to be volunteering at a summer camp for children with major medical needs for two weeks this summer. needless to say, i have a pretty decent number of non-clinical volunteer hours. i also have a few internships but they are all polisci oriented (campaign and congressional). i have absolutely no clinical experience but i love children so i was thinking of applying to become a patient cuddler at my local children's hospital once i turn 21 (idk if this counts as clinical experience though.)

i also have no shadowing hours but my mother's a doctor (not practicing anymore) so we have family friends i could shadow, as well as a few relatives (is this allowed? do i have to find physicians that i don't already know?). like i said before, i ideally want to go to a top 70 med school (as do most, i'm aware) and in or close to a major metropolitan area on the east or west coast. tbh, geographical location is likely more important to me than ranking. with that said...

TL;DR:

A) Post-bacc -- to do, or not to do, that is the question: / whether tis' better to have a structured program / with in house mcat prep / or to take up the diy option / and be left possibly unmoored

B) College Confidential thread -- cc/pre-med-medical-school: "junior in college what are my chances for good post-bacc program plz help and how competitive are linkage agreements?"

C) u/spavbhaji on r/premed: "WAMC for top 70 med schools (preferably top 30) in metro area on east or west coast given lots of non-clinical volunteering + 3.7high cgpa? What MCAT score range should I aim for to be competitive at these schools?"
What makes you think you want to be a doctor? The fact that you love children could make you an excellent teacher, not necessarily a doctor.

Your polisci major is a point of distinction and probably a plus PROVIDED that you do well in your science pre-reqs, get a high MCAT, and demonstrate interest in clinical medicine, which so far you have not done. Shadowing is a start to both exploring and demonstrating that interest. However before you decide that medicine is for you, work in a hospice, ER, clinic or hospital where you are interreacting with sick people, caregivers, and the patients' families. Also take a 1-2 of the basic pre-reqs.

Then it will probably be clearer to you what path to follows, or at that point ask for guidance.
 
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Haha, thanks for your advice. Will use proper capitalization from now on. I didn't realise there were adcoms in the forums as well!

The issue with the 8 premed prerequisites + optional classes is that I graduate in a year and still need to take a few courses to finish a few of the programs I'm doing -- which is why I can only take most of the pre-reqs after graduation. I figured applying (and hopefully getting in and doing?) a post-bacc with a linkage would eliminate the need to take an extra gap year/glide year, since I'm already not following the traditional premed timeline.
Depending on what else you need to graduate with your PolSci degree, you could take 6 out of the 8 (General Chem 1 / 2, Biology 1 / 2, Physics 1 / 2) in a year since they don't depend on each other. That would leave you taking OChem during a gap year. I'm not sure I'd recommend tripling up if you haven't done science in a long time, but you could probably take Gen Chem / Biology doubled up and put off physics and organic for after graduation.

For what it's worth, I'd also strongly recommend you take some time looking at what pre-reqs schools you're particularly interested in applying to will require. I'm finding schools are changing at a relatively rapid pace and there's increasing differences. Some med schools have dropped specified pre-requisites entirely, some have quite long lists.
 
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Meet with your university's premed advisor and get a course plan for finishing a sequence of classes on time. Something to think about, especially if you already have a lease on an apartment in your university town, is to graduate on time with your poli sci degree, and continue your classes beyond your graduation date as a post-bacc/non-degree seeking student. Ask your university's financial aid office if that would disqualify you from funding/scholarships or not. Then you can work part-time, get clinical hours, and finish up leftover prerequisite classes (probably organic or biochem), with time to focus on the MCAT. That's far more economical than a post-bacc program, plus you already have enough success at your own university to seek out research labs to work in as well.
 
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Haha, thanks for your advice. Will use proper capitalization from now on. I didn't realise there were adcoms in the forums as well!

The issue with the 8 premed prerequisites + optional classes is that I graduate in a year and still need to take a few courses to finish a few of the programs I'm doing -- which is why I can only take most of the pre-reqs after graduation. I figured applying (and hopefully getting in and doing?) a post-bacc with a linkage would eliminate the need to take an extra gap year/glide year, since I'm already not following the traditional premed timeline.

Correct me if I'm interpreting wrong: since the pre-reqs and post-bacc will take the same amount of time, you would rather do the post-bacc which will confer a higher probability of attendance due to linkage.

If this is the case, there are a few considerations about the post-bacc:
1. Many post-baccs have the same pre-requisite science courses as medical schools, ie you would need to take the ~8 classes to be accepted to the post-bacc.
2. Even if those requirements aren't in place, I wouldn't recommend diving into a post-bacc, which is often the equivalent of MS-1, with no prior undergraduate level science courses.
3. Post-bacc will cost ~$50k; taking the pre-reqs at a state school would cost ~$10k (I think you mentioned this)
4. "Linkage" means a lot of things and some of it is basically worthless. At my school you need to have a certain GPA in their program. Attaining this GPA guarantees you and interview, not an acceptance. Some schools grade their post-bacc on a true curve, meaning only the top x percent of the program will make the cut. Maybe that percent is 50. Or maybe it's 10. And that might just be for an interview!

Again, not trying to be critical, just trying to make sure your plan is right for your goals. What are your thoughts so far?
 
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