This Is Ridiculous

[acretinmelon]

You guys, this whole process makes me want to puke. How can anyone reject someone with a 3.9? HOW THE HELL DO YOU GET A 3.9? It's going to be an ACT OF GOD if I so much as PASS physics--taking Chem, Physics, and Advanced Neuroscience at the same time is the WORST IDEA I EVER HAD.

Seriously, I am going to spend the next two years of college frantically trying to bring up my 3.04, but my science GPA is going to be awful.

I am so frustrated. I don't know how you all do it. I work so f-ing hard and I get C after C after C (or worse). The highest grade I've gotten on an exam in Chem OR Physics is an 82. How people get As in these classes is so far beyond me.

Seriously though, do you have to be Jesus to get into med school? I just want to be a doctor! I want to devote my life to making people better! WHY DO I NEED TO UNDERSTAND RELATIVITY? OR REDOX REACTIONS?

I know I probably sound really naive but I can't say how frustrated I am, working this hard, and then seeing people who have numbers that are orders of magnitude better than mine getting REJECTED.

Thanks for letting me vent.

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[kito]

Are you Howard Dean incognito?

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

Yearghh!!!!!

Remember, those 3.9s will apply to much more selective schools than you. Hence, greater chance of rejection.

Yes, being a doctor involves studying.

 

[aspirant]

I have a theory.

Yes, the first two years of medical school are intense hard science. Yes, the principles of medicine are rooted in science itself and without an understanding of science one cannot be a competent physician.

However...

My theory is that any reasonably intelligent person with critical thinking skills and excellent work ethic would be able to make it in medical school, perhaps not as easily as the student who had taken the undergrad chem, physics, and bio, but I believe they could make it. Hell, I have learned things in the course of my undergrad education I never thought I would know, because I have worked very hard.

That is to say, I hypothesize that it is not so much the subject matter (although it plays some role) of these prereq courses that judges whether or not someone will make a good doctor (or even a good med student)... but the fact that these are hard courses which require endless resilience, mental and even physical, to succeed in.

I study 20-30 hours a week, 40 hours when there are exams coming up. I make good grades, but it is at a cost to my health and sanity. The med schools want to know that I have it in me to offer this kind of dedication. If basket weaving were this hard, med schools would require basket weaving.

I'm not saying you don't need to know chem to know biochem, and don't need to know biochem to know important things in medicine... what I am saying is that you probably don't need to know a lot of the stuff you are required to know to ace prereq's, but that level of detail and commitment is an indicator of how much you are willing to break your back to be a doctor.

But it's just a theory.

As far as 3.9's getting rejected... I have seen plenty of straight A students in my time that I wouldn't want anywhere near me with a needle or a knife. Grades show that you are a hard worker and smart and dedicated, but they do not show that you are a compassionate, respectable, caring person. Which I think is equally important.

No offense to any 3.9's who got rejected. But it seems to me that if your numbers are through the roof and you still get the boot... well, I guess there is some explaining to do there.

 

[gujuDoc]

I was told that someone whom applied to USF this year got rejected with a 4.0 and 40 MCAT.

The reason was because they didn't do any extracurricular much less hold a job or anything at all. If a person studies whole day and doesn't do anything extra, of course they are going to get the grades. However, that doesn't show that they will be able to interact with people one on one as a physician.


Physician's need intelligence but intelligence is nothing if they don't know how to communicate back to their colleagues and patients.

And also, just because someone is book smart, how do they know that that person is going to be able handle seeing the blood and guts and whatever else in medicine and going to be able to adjust to the atmosphere????

Numbers are important, but if all a person had to do was study and nothing else to get into medical school, I think there were would be more people getting accepted right now, and less people doing extra stuff.

Besides grades show intelligence, as so do MCAT scores. However, maturity comes with other life experiences, and I would rather have a physician with maturity and intelligence, than an immature but smart physician.

 

[Farrah]

I just want to tell you that you need to keep hope alive and reassess your situation.

I came to a turning point in my own premed career when I started just doing horribly in all of my classes. I was frustrated and confused. I took one quarter off by taking non-science classes and I focused on what I needed to do to improve, how to change my study habits, I checked out supplemental self-study science books from the library and browsed through them, I also looked through alternative textbooks for those classes, I found out places where I could get extra help (even pay for a tutor if necessary). And most of all practice practice practice. Take the hours you need to go to to the library. I just never did that before. And never overwhelm yourself with too many classes. Don't try to compete with others by trying to do the same classes as they are at the same time - just take your classes when you are ready for them. And don't ever take more than you can handle. Check out the background of your teachers and TA's. Drop classes if they are too hard (as soon as you have any hint of a bad class). Always go to a teachers office hours and the TA's office hours. Do more homework than necessary. Go above and beyond and overcome what is holding you back.

3.9 premeds aren't necessarily smarter they are just harder working. Before I did all of this I was really depressed and hopeless but once I did this I began to get straight A's where I once got C's. Take it one step at a time and before you know it you will begin to enjoy these classes. Don't think of it in a bad way, think of it positively, and try to enjoy it. I know that I enjoy my classes a lot now. So go for it and good luck.

 

[jlee9531]

its not surprising at all that people with high gpas get rejected. after meeting a certain type of these high gpa people im glad that they dont get in.

a high gpa doesnt impress me. if you can combine your academic prowess with a social and cultural awareness, exhibit a passion for medicine and compassion for those who are in need...then i am impressed.

i also know a 3.9 high 30s student that is reapplying this year since he got rejected everywhere he applied to last year due to his social incompetence. hed be an excellent researcher, just not a good doctor.

 

[Fumoffu]

You don't have to be a doctor to help people feel better.

There are tons of professions in the field of medicine.

 

[jlee9531]

oh and to the OP....there are lots of people without the high gpa that get into good medical schools. you sound like a guy who genuinely wants to help people...if you can show this in your ps, secondaries...schools will see this and some will take a chance on you by giving you an interview. shine there and good things will follow.

good luck. dont get frustrated about the others around you in the process. dont compare yourself to others since you are unique and different.

 

[AliZ]

I agree! This is my first post to this site and I have to say... getting into med school requires patience, dedication, endurance, and motivation... not to mention having 'thick skin' to deal with those around you who like to 'toot their horns' about their own stats.

Right now I'm doing a post-bac and will be taking the MCAT in April '05. So far it's been crazy and I have to admit that I often feel like you feel. Like how can these people be such geniuses and get A's when I feel like I work just as hard and get B's!!?!?

In my opinion, the key is to not judge yourself on every single step you make. If you do awesome on one test, don't assume your Einstein but remember what you did to do well and make it happen again. On the same note, if you do poorly don't think you're a ***** but think about what you could have done better. Also, there are some people who put in mad hours and get nothing out of it. I think that finding out the study style that works for you is key. Studying smarter not necessarily harder.

I'm doing a post-bac now because I was a complete wreck in undergrad. I had no idea what it took to do well and as expected my grades truly suffered, I'm talking C+'s as my highest grades! I ended up switching my major and totally turning my back on a career in medicine because I thought I wasn't good enough. Years later... I'm more motivated and focused to do it the right way this time! So far so good... I'm not rackin' up the 4.0 every quarter but I'm doing a hell of a lot better than my undergrad stats!

Anyway... I don't know how I let this post get so long but I guess since it was my first one I thought I should explain a little about myself. So... hope I helped a little

Good luck!

 

[Gleevec]

Originally posted by jlee9531
its not surprising at all that people with high gpas get rejected. after meeting a certain type of these high gpa people im glad that they dont get in.

a high gpa doesnt impress me. if you can combine your academic prowess with a social and cultural awareness, exhibit a passion for medicine and compassion for those who are in need...then i am impressed.

i also know a 3.9 high 30s student that is reapplying this year since he got rejected everywhere he applied to last year due to his social incompetence. hed be an excellent researcher, just not a good doctor.

GPA is a range-based indicator for academic stamina to med schools I believe. Grade inflation and variance in coursework make it futile to attempt to decide whether a 3.9 candidate is truly better than a 3.8 candidate.

That's why the MCAT is so important to admissions. Its the only standard barometer med schools have.

 

[relentless11]

Hahaha, well i can't blame him for needing to vent. It doesn't bother me. Take pride in your desire to work harder. Sometimes thats more useful than knowing all and seeing all.

On a side note though, one of my best friends, she actually had an overall GPA of 3.94, and an overall science GPA of 4.0. Yea scary huh? She was also pretty cute=). Anyway, her MCAT wasn't too hot though, never was a good standardized test taker. Despite all that, its not like she got into all med schools. She did get secondaries really fast, but considering schools tend to screen for GPA/MCAT off the bat, not a surprise.

Like Aliz said up there: "I agree! This is my first post to this site and I have to say... getting into med school requires patience, dedication, endurance, and motivation... not to mention having 'thick skin' to deal with those around you who like to 'toot their horns' about their own stats. "

Just suck it up, and push forward man. No other choice. Don't waste your time by dwelling on other people's stats. You know what it takes to get in.=)

 

[meanderson]

Originally posted by Gleevec
GPA is a range-based indicator for academic stamina to med schools I believe. Grade inflation and variance in coursework make it futile to attempt to decide whether a 3.9 candidate is truly better than a 3.8 candidate.

That's why the MCAT is so important to admissions. Its the only standard barometer med schools have.

Agree, but this doesn't mean all gpa's are viewed the same within certain ranges. 3.9 and 3.8 are pretty close, and med schools would view these in very similar ways. Just like they would view a 33 and a 34 in very similar ways.

I don't think it's totally futile in most cases to compare gpa's. UT-Southwestern knows what a 3.7 gpa from the University of Texas at Austin in biology is worth. They've certainly seen plenty of examples over the years. State schools are going to be familar with almost all the undergraduate schools their applicants went to(even the lesser known ones). With schools that accept lots of out of state students I could see how this would be a bigger problem.

As we all know, the key is viewing the gpa and mcat together, looking for trends, and trying to piece a puzzle together. Everyone always asks on these forums "what's more important- GPA or mcat?". The answer is almost always it depends........

 

[uclacrewdude]

GPA x personality = 1

 

[gary5]

You can help people without being a doctor.

 

[gujuDoc]

I agree that not all GPA's can be compared as a standard. Some schools may say a 94 is the lowest A while others may say a 90 is the lowest A while yet other schools ay a 85 is the lowest A.

Or for one instance, I had a class where the teacher used a straight bell curve depending on the avg. In the class a 47 was once a C, whereas in another class, a C was a 70, whereas in yet another class, a C was 55 or above.

So see, you can't really determine what a GPA from one school is compared against GPA from another school, or GPA in one course against GPA in another course.



However, the MCAT is graded the same no matter where you go. So I wouldn't necessarily say that GPA is an indicator of how one will do in medical school.


Also, GPA doesn't tell you a thing because a person who gets a 3.9 from 12 credit hours but not work or extracurricular vs. a person with 21 credit hours vs a person with 12 credit hours but working 40 hrs per week is not the same thing.

But not matter what, the MCAT is the same everywhere.

I know people with 3.9-40 GPA's who've screwed up the MCAT but didn't want a DO, now they are changing their major completely.

 

[tautomer]

Here's a study tip:

I was exactly like you, I THOUGHT that it was impossible for me to get A's on these exams. I thought A's were only what the true geniuses got and that since a "B" or "C" is average, that's what I got because I was average. I'm telling you, if you think you can get an A; if you truly think you can own the test, then you can. Now how do you get to be like that? You have to know everything. Now, some people, they memorize the TEXT in the book and nothing more- they don't look at the relationships between what their learning, they don't learn the broad view of what the information really means. Ya, in an alpha-substitution reaction, the H is subsituted for an electrophile, but WHY? WHY do you feel feverish when you have a cold? WHY do you feel energized after eating? What's going on internally when you put your hand on a hot stove? Use what you're learning in biological sciences, etc. to answer these questions. If you take a more worldly approach to what you're learning, you can make a better sense of it all and put everything in place. I think this will help you remember everything better. But other than that, you just need to study your ass off. Last year, I didn't think I could do well, because I DIDN'T KNOW ANY BETTER. Now, I know that it is possible, and I'm not AFRAID of the tests any more. So, I can get A's. You CAN do well.

Best of luck.

 

[tugbug]

Just my opinion, but I suspect that med schools dont have to dip into low GPA/MCAT pools to find students with personality. I assume this process is competitive enough that they can simply pick the compassionate/well rounded members of the high stats group to fill their classes... without ever even looking at the compassionate/well rounded low to mid stats folks.

I am not claiming that stats are more important than personality... but med schools dont have to pick one or the other. There are plenty of smart people with personality to go around. So, I would NOT expect personality to outweigh deficiencies in scholastic ability.

 

[Anka]

Dear Aspirate,

Thank you for reiterating the myth of the tireless premed, who works ever so hard (a whole entire 40 hours per week!), sacrificing "health and sanity" (I assume through this presumptive overwork, no?). I guess the age of the 80 hour physicians and surgeons has arrived.

Anka

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by tugbug
Just my opinion, but I suspect that med schools dont have to dip into low GPA/MCAT pools to find students with personality. I assume this process is competitive enough that they can simply pick the compassionate/well rounded members of the high stats group to fill their classes... without ever even looking at the compassionate/well rounded low to mid stats folks.

I am not claiming that stats are more important than personality... but med schools dont have to pick one or the other. There are plenty of smart people with personality to go around. So, I would NOT expect personality to outweigh deficiencies in scholastic ability.

well im glad to say that they dipped low into the gpa pool for a few of us out there...

 

[acretinmelon]

Thanks for the encouragement, everyone. It's just a brutal week--exams in every class.

Playtime's over, it's back to work! Take care and thanks again!

 

[cjg]

This is also my first post on here. I had to chime in and agree with "tautomer." The last several semesters I have been bringing in 4.0s each time, no matter my classes. There was a time in my extended undergrad career that this just did not happen. I struggled and consistently felt overwhelmed. Now, I do exactly what tautomer was speaking of - RELATE the info. I know that isn't always so easy, but I can usually make some sort of relationship in my mind with anything - linking it to something I have already really internalized, and with science, that seems even easier to do than with general education classes, IMO.

My husband was a below average student thru his grade school years, and thru the first two years of college, and then he just quit, went to EMT school, and started working. Now he is back in and majoring in a science as well - this is something neither of us really thought we would ever be up to - science seemed so difficult. I helped him to see that he COULD learn the material if he related it to real life or to material he already KNOWS. It makes a difference.

 

[Sean2tall]

Do you guys really believe that you have to be socially inept to be rejected with a 3.9 and good MCATs? I mean . . I understand there are some academic superstars out there with perfect scores and grades who get rejected because they are kinda weird or not good with people. But there are people out there who get rejected with pretty terrific stats for no good reason at all! I don't even know what more to say about this. .

 

[tugbug]

Originally posted by jlee9531
well im glad to say that they dipped low into the gpa pool for a few of us out there...

I wouldnt call your stats low... Youve been hanging around SDN too long, it has skewed your perception of "Low". The OP was talkin Cs and Bs.

 

[exmike]

Originally posted by tugbug
I wouldnt call your stats low... Youve been hanging around SDN too long, it has skewed your perception of "Low". The OP was talkin Cs and Bs.

then that would be me

 

[Megalofyia]

Originally posted by exmike
then that would be me

You made a 35 on the MCAT, and did an MS and MPH. I think you made up for your undergrad GPA.

 

[tugbug]

Originally posted by exmike
then that would be me

You really think what I said applies to your application? Yours looks pretty good to me... Wanna trade?

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by tugbug
I wouldnt call your stats low... Youve been hanging around SDN too long, it has skewed your perception of "Low". The OP was talkin Cs and Bs.

well i would prolly consider a 3.4 cum and a 3.1 bcpm relatively lower than the averages at all med schools...

but then again...thats just me.

 

[tugbug]

Originally posted by jlee9531
well i would prolly consider a 3.4 cum and a 3.1 bcpm relatively lower than the averages at all med schools...

but then again...thats just me.

Okay, I concede... you win But, I was really intending to be talking about applicants Ive discussed the app process with who have 2.5s and 25s but great personalities... I doubt they even get a shot because med schools can find the personalities they are looking for in the pool that includes people with stats like yours (meaning good stats).

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by tugbug
Okay, I concede... you win But, I was really intending to be talking about applicants Ive discussed the app process with who have 2.5s and 25s but great personalities... I doubt they even get a shot because med schools can find the personalities they are looking for in the pool that includes people with stats like yours (meaning good stats).

ahhh...i understand now.

well with screening and all that stuff...yeah people with those stats will most likely get no play.

 

[uclacrewdude]

Originally posted by tugbug
Okay, I concede... you win But, I was really intending to be talking about applicants Ive discussed the app process with who have 2.5s and 25s but great personalities... I doubt they even get a shot because med schools can find the personalities they are looking for in the pool that includes people with stats like yours (meaning good stats).

2.9, 29q, fantastic personality. seriously, im like 4 zumas, 2 cerbs, and a zweihander all in one.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by uclacrewdude
2.9, 29q, fantastic personality. seriously, im like 4 zumas, 2 cerbs, and a zweihander all in one.

thats gold!

i mean if it were 3 zumas...then that might have been borderline...but the 4th i think put you over the top. oh the 2 cerbs dont hurt either.

 

[Perrin]

I agree with you ALiZ

I went to WashU for a year. I had a 3.0 GPA and felt like a complete idiot compared to my peers. I transfered to my state school, Mississippi State. I did poor there as well. So, I changed majors to architecture, my other passion. Well, I did pretty good there and learned some good work habits and how to stay awake for 72 hours. It wasn't for me though, there was no compassion there, no helping society. So I changed back to pre-med about a year ago. I've matured over 4 years of arch school and now I am making 4.0s every semester in upper level science. I guess this is what they call personal growth or something

 

[AliZ]

Wow... that's awesome! Glad to see your in the 'zone' now and know how to study effectively. As for myself, I'm still trying to figure out what works best for me and I think I'm getting there... yay! I just hope that a few of my post-bac Bs won't kill my whole application. Keep up the good work!