This pisses me off

[DOquestions]

---

Members do not see this ad.

http://www.tunv.org/uploads/Financial%20Aid/COA/2009-2010/DO%20FIRST%20YEAR%2009-10.pdf

$20,000 for room and board? WTF? Seriously. WTF! I make just over $30,000 right now and I pay rent for $450 a month plus undergraduate student loans and I still have some money left over. WTF is up with charging $20,000 for room and board?

This down right pisses me off. Room and board should be around $4,000 a year.

Who the hell would go into $300,000 of debt just to become a doctor? This is fricken crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The costs of attendance is seriously making me think twice about becoming a doctor.

Edit: I should just develop my own pathology database company and say screw it with becoming a doctor. Anyone know a phone number for a good investor?

 

[Lacheln]

http://www.tunv.org/uploads/Financial%20Aid/COA/2009-2010/DO%20FIRST%20YEAR%2009-10.pdf

$20,000 for room and board? WTF? Seriously. WTF! I make just over $30,000 right now and I pay rent for $450 a month plus undergraduate student loans and I still have some money left over. WTF is up with charging $20,000 for room and board?

This down right pisses me off. Room and board should be around $4,000 a year.

Who the hell would go into $300,000 of debt just to become a doctor? This is fricken crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The costs of attendance is seriously making me think twice about becoming a doctor.

Edit: I should just develop my own pathology database company and say screw it with becoming a doctor. Anyone know a phone number for a good investor?

From your other posts you seem a bit overly excitable, but I'll answer as though you aren't: that is a COA, not what the school charges. If anything, it's nice of them to set a high COA so that you have wiggle room with your loans if you want to.

 

[link2swim06]

http://www.tunv.org/uploads/Financial Aid/COA/2009-2010/DO FIRST YEAR 09-10.pdf

$20,000 for room and board? WTF? Seriously. WTF! I make just over $30,000 right now and I pay rent for $450 a month plus undergraduate student loans and I still have some money left over. WTF is up with charging $20,000 for room and board?

This down right pisses me off. Room and board should be around $4,000 a year.

Who the hell would go into $300,000 of debt just to become a doctor? This is fricken crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The costs of attendance is seriously making me think twice about becoming a doctor.

Edit: I should just develop my own pathology database company and say screw it with becoming a doctor. Anyone know a phone number for a good investor?

I think they just overestimate those sorta numbers so you will not be short on money. Just live on the minimum and take what you need.

 

[Bacchus]

You can always return unused loan funds at the end of the term. You shouldn't have to spend $20,000 a year to live, honestly.

 

[chiz2kul]

From your other posts you seem a bit overly excitable, but I'll answer as though you aren't: that is a COA, not what the school charges. If anything, it's nice of them to set a high COA so that you have wiggle room with your loans if you want to.

🙄 Lol i'll have to agree here..

 

[shindotp]

Lol @ this topic

 

[146233]

You've got to eat. And some people need to furnish a place. If you're so confident in your budgeting abilities, reduce your loan amount. You're perfectly within your rights to do so. Otherwise, be smart: take the money, put it somewhere interest-bearing, return the part you didn't use either with or without the interest you've accrued.

You'll be surprised what expenses come up, etc. You just might be glad to have that cushion.

 

[DOquestions]

I should just become a clinical research manager and make $100,000 a year without going into $200,000 of debt to make about $140,000 a year. If I'm a research manager, and do my writing jobs, I would come out with roughly the same salary.

This way I can start a pathology database business as well.

Edit: I can still enjoy my fall football Saturdays this way!!!

 

[Bacchus]

Then do that... no one is making you go into medicine or come to SDN.

 

[phospho]

i wish all schools would make it 20K for room and board... it'll definitely give us more wiggle room...

 

[cajunchrisbu]

I should just become a clinical research manager and make $100,000 a year without going into $200,000 of debt to make about $140,000 a year. If I'm a research manager, and do my writing jobs, I would come out with roughly the same salary.

This way I can start a pathology database business as well.

Edit: I can still enjoy my fall football Saturdays this way!!!

lol you're obviously awesome at taking advise from people...seeing as this is exactly the opposite of what everyone has told you...

hey genius do you know what a "calculated" number means... I'll give you a hint...its a guess/estimate...

 

[darkosbunny]

I should just become a clinical research manager and make $100,000 a year without going into $200,000 of debt to make about $140,000 a year. If I'm a research manager, and do my writing jobs, I would come out with roughly the same salary.

This way I can start a pathology database business as well.

Edit: I can still enjoy my fall football Saturdays this way!!!

Who's stopping you?

 

[NotAndrew]

Lol. It's a COA you don't have to turn over that money to the school, like others have said most people will be happy that cushion is there.

 

[majahops]

In all seriousness, your concerns and fears are shared by most of us. You're not alone by any means. While we might seem to play it a little cooler, those of us who are going to be relying primarily on loans to fund medical school all have some level of fear/anxiety about how/when we are going to pay it back. Of course we know we have to live within our means, and we can work up payment schedules, etc, etc, etc... but it's still pretty scary to consider that, at some point, we will be owing someone between $100k and $250k. Under no circumstances is that something to be taken lightly. It's a REAL debt.

But it is the price we are prepared to pay... we've got one life to live, and for many of us, it is one of our truest dreams to become physicians.

$20,000 for room and board? WTF? Seriously. WTF! I make just over $30,000 right now and I pay rent for $450 a month plus undergraduate student loans and I still have some money left over. WTF is up with charging $20,000 for room and board?

This down right pisses me off. Room and board should be around $4,000 a year.

Who the hell would go into $300,000 of debt just to become a doctor? This is fricken crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The costs of attendance is seriously making me think twice about becoming a doctor.

 

[darkosbunny]

In all seriousness, your concerns and fears are shared by most of us. You're not alone by any means. While we might seem to play it a little cooler, those of us who are going to be relying primarily on loans to fund medical school all have some level of fear/anxiety about how/when we are going to pay it back. Of course we know we have to live within our means, and we can work up payment schedules, etc, etc, etc... but it's still pretty scary to consider that, at some point, we will be owing someone between $100k and $250k. Under no circumstances is that something to be taken lightly. It's a REAL debt.

But it is the price we are prepared to pay.

This is all very true...but what high-paying jobs do not force you to go to graduate school?

Hell, a pharmacist goes through four years of professional school, and racks up a lot of debt as well, and they only make a little over $100K.

Accountants need a master's degree...and they start at 50-55K. The list goes on. Almost every single professional occupation out there requires graduate-level schooling. Engineering might be the lone exception...but again, they do not make anywhere near what a doctor makes. A newly minted chemical engineer makes maybe 65K.

It is the way the professional world works. You will incur debt. Doctors incur more debt than just about any other professional, but they also make substantially more income as well.

I guess I'm trying to say that there is no "Holy Grail" as far as career searching goes. They all have their plusses and minuses. You should do what you have a passion for. If you are exceptional at your job, in most cases you will make a lot of money. A rock-star accountant will get promoted and become an internal auditor and eventually partner, pulling in 300 grand a year. A super engineer will solve complex engineering problems and come up with solutions, get promoted, and make $100 grand a year. A rock-star medical student/resident will get one of the specialties he or she wants and will make damn good money. It's all about doing what you WANT TO DO.

 

[DOquestions]

This is all very true...but what high-paying jobs do not force you to go to graduate school?

Hell, a pharmacist goes through four years of professional school, and racks up a lot of debt as well, and they only make a little over $100K.

Accountants need a master's degree...and they start at 50-55K. The list goes on. Almost every single professional occupation out there requires graduate-level schooling. Engineering might be the lone exception...but again, they do not make anywhere near what a doctor makes. A newly minted chemical engineer makes maybe 65K.

It is the way the professional world works. You will incur debt. Doctors incur more debt than just about any other professional, but they also make substantially more income as well.

I guess I'm trying to say that there is no "Holy Grail" as far as career searching goes. They all have their plusses and minuses. You should do what you have a passion for. If you are exceptional at your job, in most cases you will make a lot of money. A rock-star accountant will get promoted and become an internal auditor and eventually partner, pulling in 300 grand a year. A super engineer will solve complex engineering problems and come up with solutions, get promoted, and make $100 grand a year. A rock-star medical student/resident will get one of the specialties he or she wants and will make damn good money. It's all about doing what you WANT TO DO.

I agree with everything you said. I'm just glad that I'm taking my time before sending in any graduate applications as I want to make sure that I make the right choice.

My true passion is in the field of human genetics. I love the idea of diagnosing and treating patients with genetic disorders. I want to work with college athletes to help prevent sudden cardiac deaths (as research shows that most athletes that die from sudden cardiac death is familial) and screening children for genetic disorders. That is what I'm passionate about. I know the salary I will face will be around $150,000 or less a year. So I need to make sure that if I do go to medical school, that the end product (salary) will be enough to compensate for the time and being able to pay for the house, car, the wife (keeping the lady happy requires more then just a nice job) and debt. Being passionate about the work is no issue, its the debt I would take on. This is a serious issue for my as I have NO support group at all. I"m all alone in this. I know that if I do not become a clinical geneticist, I will be bored the rest of my life.

 

[chessknt]

You've got to eat. And some people need to furnish a place. If you're so confident in your budgeting abilities, reduce your loan amount. You're perfectly within your rights to do so. Otherwise, be smart: take the money, put it somewhere interest-bearing, return the part you didn't use either with or without the interest you've accrued.

You'll be surprised what expenses come up, etc. You just might be glad to have that cushion.

You have a sure-fire way to beat the 6.8% compounded interest on unsub stafford loans? What is it?

 

[WDeagle]

Is this post serious? Did i miss something? TUNV isnt charging you $20,000 for R&B. Thats the amount of financial aid you can get for R&B. If it costs you $4,000 for R&B then take out $4,000 of loans for it. Most schools dont alot enough money for R&B so you end up taking out private(much more expensive loans) to cover the rest. The overestimated R&B is awesome for people with families and people with extra costs. Basically, you are complaining about something that is a good thing and beneficial to you.

 

[LizzyM]

I know that if I do not become a clinical geneticist, I will be bored the rest of my life.

Have you considered a master's degree program in genetic counseling? It is fewer years, lower cost, and may get you to the same place (working with athletes and families).

 

[Bacchus]

You have a sure-fire way to beat the 6.8% compounded interest on unsub stafford loans? What is it?

I think he's referring to high-yield savings accounts. Unfortunately, these accounts will never reach the interest return of the value you are paying on your loans. But you can find some deals where the interest returned is quite higher than the standard rate for most banks.

 

[atomi]

-

 

[atomi]

-

 

[PepperMD]

You don't have to go to school if you have a skill. I have a few friends who are professional models who earn high six figures every year and neither graduated high school.

Another friend is lead guitarist in a band I guarantee you've heard of. I don't know what his cut is, but his car collection tells me he does alright (although you will hear plenty of complaining about only bringing in a small percentage of the money he makes due to middlemen - you think doctors have it bad...)

My point is that there are lots of ways to become wealthy without school. Our 'skill' is our mental aptitude. It's not fair to say normal people have to go to med school if they want to do well, because the kind of people who make it into med school are equally as unique as those qualified to be cover models. We just got blessed with big brains instead of a gorgeous face (although I know one model who went to med school, but she wasn't doing too well in the model biz).

WTF? Sure, just be a model or a rockstar. That's an easy alternative...🙄

 

[nogolfinsnow]

You have a sure-fire way to beat the 6.8% compounded interest on unsub stafford loans? What is it?

While you likely won't beat the 6.8%, it is nice to have a small cushion for unexpected expenses such as car repairs. It's better to keep a little cushion at 6.8% than have to put a thousand dollar car repair on a credit card at 10-20%.

 

[MossPoh]

If you can live off of 4,000 dollars a year then you must be a friggin miracle worker.

I live in a place now that is 425 a month (pretty reasonable). That alone is more than 4,000 dollars in a year. Now, utilities and internet thrown in is another 150 bucks a month. Food, unless you eat Ramen, rice and beans for 4 years will be roughly 50 bucks a week. (That is low with it)

So, even if you live cheap you are still talking around 10k a year. Some areas have housing that reaches well over double what I pay per month.

20k is a perfectly reasonable amount to leave a little wiggle room. I plan to live cheap, but I'm not going to sacrifice a proper diet or anything to do it.

 

[DOquestions]

Have you considered a master's degree program in genetic counseling? It is fewer years, lower cost, and may get you to the same place (working with athletes and families).

Yes, I know every single ins and outs of that career profession. I decided to pass on it because of the salary and the limitations. The limitations didn't justify the salary. Meaning, the salary is too low for my tastes to deal with the limitations. My wife does not want me to earn around $45,000 to $55,000 the rest of my life. She demanded that I do better and I agreed. I'm a man, after all. I need to make some real money to support our selves and others in the future.

 

[atomi]

-

 

[DOquestions]

You missed my point entirely.

I get your point. However, the people you mention were born with the qualities to be good at those things. I would be a male stripper to pay for school, but I'm short and have another limitation, lol.

 

[searun]

Yes, I know every single ins and outs of that career profession. I decided to pass on it because of the salary and the limitations. The limitations didn't justify the salary. Meaning, the salary is too low for my tastes to deal with the limitations. My wife does not want me to earn around $45,000 to $55,000 the rest of my life. She demanded that I do better and I agreed. I'm a man, after all. I need to make some real money to support our selves and others in the future.

Become a Division One football coach. You can make a million plus per year and you can throw chairs at a press conferences and scream at reporters: "I am a man, I am forty, you want to criticize someone, then criticize me, and not some kid on my team." Great money and a great emotional release because everyone likes to scream at the press.

 

[Handy388]

Yes, I know every single ins and outs of that career profession. I decided to pass on it because of the salary and the limitations. The limitations didn't justify the salary. Meaning, the salary is too low for my tastes to deal with the limitations. My wife does not want me to earn around $45,000 to $55,000 the rest of my life. She demanded that I do better and I agreed. I'm a man, after all. I need to make some real money to support our selves and others in the future.

are you sure medical geneticist get to do what you want to do and still get paid over 100k? I am not too convinced if just by helping college atheletes you can get over 100K a year, perhaps working for a college health center maybe?

 

[flip26]

This is all very true...but what high-paying jobs do not force you to go to graduate school?

Hell, a pharmacist goes through four years of professional school, and racks up a lot of debt as well, and they only make a little over $100K.

Accountants need a master's degree...and they start at 50-55K. The list goes on. Almost every single professional occupation out there requires graduate-level schooling. Engineering might be the lone exception...but again, they do not make anywhere near what a doctor makes. A newly minted chemical engineer makes maybe 65K.

It is the way the professional world works. You will incur debt. Doctors incur more debt than just about any other professional, but they also make substantially more income as well.

I guess I'm trying to say that there is no "Holy Grail" as far as career searching goes. They all have their plusses and minuses. You should do what you have a passion for. If you are exceptional at your job, in most cases you will make a lot of money. A rock-star accountant will get promoted and become an internal auditor and eventually partner, pulling in 300 grand a year. A super engineer will solve complex engineering problems and come up with solutions, get promoted, and make $100 grand a year. A rock-star medical student/resident will get one of the specialties he or she wants and will make damn good money. It's all about doing what you WANT TO DO.

Underlined is WRONG. Very few accountants get, much less need, a masters degree.

Where do you come up with this bull****?

 

[KTownGT]

Become a Division One football coach. You can make a million plus per year and you can throw chairs at a press conferences and scream at reporters: "I am a man, I am forty, you want to criticize someone, then criticize me, and not some kid on my team." Great money and a great emotional release because everyone likes to scream at the press.

Mike Leech just signed a $2.5 million a year contract.

 

[DOquestions]

Mike Leech just signed a $2.5 million a year contract.

And he even went to law school and hated it.

 

[Kaustikos]

WTF? Sure, just be a model or a rockstar. That's an easy alternative...🙄

I get your point. However, the people you mention were born with the qualities to be good at those things. I would be a male stripper to pay for school, but I'm short and have another limitation, lol.

You guys aren't getting it at all. I understood Atomi's point - an education from a graduate school is NOT required to obtain a respectable income. Another example I'll site is working in the pharmaceutical industry - you don't need a masters/PhD to get into the industry/earn a good income. They may ask for an undergraduate degree, but that's nothing for majority of people on here. It's that if you possess the intellect and hard work required to get into that income bracket, then you shouldn't quickly dismiss all options because you don't have an MD or PhD. I know of plenty of people who make a great earning and don't have a masters.

Another example - a friend of mine works at Epic Games as a programmer netting 80k starting (2 years ago, I don't know what it is now - probably closer to 100k now with their recent successes). They didn't even care if he finished college or not and he didn't need college either. The guy got into programming from the time computers began to become prominent in households and understood the language perfectly. All his portfolio includes stuff he's worked on since before college that he's refined/worked on while in college. His career is solely based on his own skills/abilities not earned from a normal education.

 

[DOquestions]

You guys aren't getting it at all. I understood Atomi's point - an education from a graduate school is NOT required to obtain a respectable income. Another example I'll site is working in the pharmaceutical industry - you don't need a masters/PhD to get into the industry/earn a good income. They may ask for an undergraduate degree, but that's nothing for majority of people on here. It's that if you possess the intellect and hard work required to get into that income bracket, then you shouldn't quickly dismiss all options because you don't have an MD or PhD. I know of plenty of people who make a great earning and don't have a masters.

Another example - a friend of mine works at Epic Games as a programmer netting 80k starting (2 years ago, I don't know what it is now - probably closer to 100k now with their recent successes). They didn't even care if he finished college or not and he didn't need college either. The guy got into programming from the time computers began to become prominent in households and understood the language perfectly. All his portfolio includes stuff he's worked on since before college that he's refined/worked on while in college. His career is solely based on his own skills/abilities not earned from a normal education.

I have a lot of respect for sport games programmers. They develop a service that provides great enjoyment.

 

[darkosbunny]

Underlined is WRONG. Very few accountants get, much less need, a masters degree.

Where do you come up with this bull****?

In Florida and just about every other state, it is a requirement to have a master's degree to become a CPA.

Sure, you can be an accountant without being a CPA or other such certification, but how exactly are you going to get promoted and make big money?

 

[Kaustikos]

In Florida and just about every other state, it is a requirement to have a master's degree to become a CPA.

Sure, you can be an accountant without being a CPA or other such certification, but how exactly are you going to get promoted and make big money?

That was his whole point!

 

[darkosbunny]

That was his whole point!

That's not a high-paying job.

Not much different than becoming a public school teacher or nurse.

 

[Kaustikos]

That's not a high-paying job.

Not much different than becoming a public school teacher or nurse.

Nurses make their own wages. You can net anywhere from 50k to 100k depending upon where you work and how you work.

School teachers are the same. Look at the earnings of teachers in Shaumberg(sp?) Illinois or any big city private school teachers.

 

[Bacchus]

Case Western just sent me information on an MS in Anesthesiology Services to become a gas tech...quoting the salary average of 110-120k a year for an extra 2 year degree. There's an option.

 

[DOquestions]

Case Western just sent me information on an MS in Anesthesiology Services to become a gas tech...quoting the salary average of 110-120k a year for an extra 2 year degree. There's an option.

Nothing wrong with doing that for a few years and saving money up to go to medical school.

Those are some hot chicks on that website.

Edit: TOTAL TUITION (at current rates) $73,036

WOW. That is crazy. You could have that paid off in two or three years and make the same as a good percentage of doctors and not have such huge debt. You would make more than NPs and PAs.

Not a bad option for people who could stand doing that type of work.

 

[parafilm]

I'm just shocked you live in a place where rent is only $450 a month.

Man, I gotta move out of boston.

 

[DOquestions]

I'm just shocked you live in a place where rent is only $450 a month.

Man, I gotta move out of boston.

I have a one bedroom apartment and a roomate. So I only pay $250 a month. My wife is finishing her internship for her degree out of town.

 

[darkosbunny]

I'm just shocked you live in a place where rent is only $450 a month.

Man, I gotta move out of boston.

I have a couple of roommates but I'm paying $450 a month here in Orlando.

Nice gated community, modern 2-story house. I even have my own "wing" on the first floor...own bathroom and private entrance. Oh ya and all utilities paid!

 

[majahops]

How did this thread become just a ridiculous argument like all the others? 🙁

 

[flip26]

In Florida and just about every other state, it is a requirement to have a master's degree to become a CPA.

Sure, you can be an accountant without being a CPA or other such certification, but how exactly are you going to get promoted and make big money?

This is total freaking bull****.

You do NOT have to get an MBA to become a CPA.

Here is a standard requirement for CPA licensure:

Have earned a baccalaureate degree or higher with twenty (20) semester hours or thirty (30) quarter hours in accounting subjects above the introductory level at a four year accredited college or university that offers a baccalaureate degree as defined by the Board.

Dude, I hope you are a lot smarter in your college classes than you are on SDN, because you are...oh never mind.

 

[darkosbunny]

This is total freaking bull****.

You do NOT have to get an MBA to become a CPA.

Here is a standard requirement for CPA licensure:

Have earned a baccalaureate degree or higher with twenty (20) semester hours or thirty (30) quarter hours in accounting subjects above the introductory level at a four year accredited college or university that offers a baccalaureate degree as defined by the Board.

Dude, I hope you are a lot smarter in your college classes than you are on SDN, because you are...oh never mind.

I didn't say MBA, genius. Anyways, I just read the CPA requirements for the state of Florida and it states you must have a bachelor's degree with at least 36 hours in accounting AND an additional 30 credit hours in accounting and business to make a total of 150 credit hours. I admit I was incorrect about this...but you are as well. Also be aware that CPA licensure differs state-to-state.

Anyways, at least I'm not the one that believes Americans have income taxes exceeding 50% of their income.

 

[Murphy Brown]

In Florida and just about every other state, it is a requirement to have a master's degree to become a CPA.

Nope. My mother's a CPA in Florida and all she has is a Bachelor's. She worked as an accountant for a few years then sat for the CPA exam. In case you don't know, that's Certified Public Accountant. CPA is simply a license. There's no legal requirement to have a Master's degree.

 

[Murphy Brown]

And here's the proof of my last post. Notice for minimum degree for a CPA in Florida, it says Bachelor's? If you want to make a point, make a point but please don't make stuff up and spread false information.

http://www.beckercpa.com/florida/index.cfm

 

[littlealex]

This thread is the fail.

Like others said, you don't have to spend 20k a year if you don't want to. Save some money and borrow less.

And no one is forcing you to be a doctor. If you don't want to do it, don't do it. It's much better than going on the path and complaining about it all the time with stories about how you could be doing so great otherwise.

On another note, physicians have the highest average salary. Speaking strictly of averages, it's a pretty safe path.