Those who are negative about military medicine

[militarymd]

2 and a half years ago when I started posting here, I was told that there are only a few ex-military MDs who are like me.....

The ranks have grown.....we now have a quorum of fully trained ex-military MDs who see military medicine for what it is........

For those of you considering this system, search and read our posts.

I would like those who feel like I do to reply to this thread, so that there is a list of our usernames for students to search.

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[DropkickMurphy]

Not a doc, but I was an cardiopulmonary tech (respiratory therapist/echocardiographer) in the Air Force.

 

[Galo]

Galo,

General surgeon for 6 years.

Probably one of the worst and hardest hit specialties in the military currently along with any other surgical subspecialties because of lack of support, understanding, money.

ANYONE thinking about military medicine should spend a few hours searching this forum. Start with pro/con, avoid military medicine, decline of military medicine. Call up active duty physicians and talk to them.

I've put my address here before: [email protected]

Joining the military for monetary reasons is one of the worst things, (and most common reason), you can do to a medical career at this point in time, in today's military.

 

[USAFdoc]

2 and a half years ago when I started posting here, I was told that there are only a few ex-military MDs who are like me.....

The ranks have grown.....we now have a quorum of fully trained ex-military MDs who see military medicine for what it is........

For those of you considering this system, search and read our posts.

I would like those who feel like I do to reply to this thread, so that there is a list of our usernames for students to search.

6 years enlisted, HPSP, went USAF Primary Care/FP after schooling. I found USAF Primary care to be the worse run organization I have ever been a part of. The docs (and even the nurses in clinic) were quality. The system was disgraceful.

 

[ExNavyRad]

Cut'n pasted from my first post:

Philadelphia College of Osteopathic Medicine grad - 1987
DO internship 1987-88
NAMI 1988-89
Flight surgeon 2nd Marine Aircraft Wing MCAS Cherry Point 1989-91
-VMA(AW)-224 UDP Iwakuni Japan 1989
-MAG-14; VMGR-252 1989-90
-MAG-40 USS Nassau Desert Shield/Storm 1990-1991
Radiology residency Naval Hospital San Diego 1991-95
Naval Hospital Keflavik 1995-96
Naval Hospital Newport 1996-1997
IRR/Active Reserves off and on 1997-2005

I had a good experience overall, and got good training in the specialty of my choice, but I also spent alot of time deployed as a flight surgeon. I signed up for HPSP because I wanted to serve, not just for the money.

My gripe is not with military medicine per se, but with the leadership that lacks the will and imagination to adapt the system (both active and reserve)to the changing realities of the medical marketplace, and the new challenges of supporting the people fighting a global quasi-war for the foreseeable future. (Of course, you could make that complaint about the line communities, as well.)

Anyway, if any student reading this really wants to serve, I applaud you, and I would encourage you to consider HPSP; but you'd better do your due-diligence, and realize damn well what you are signing up for. If you are looking at HPSP for the money only, you are an idiot.

ExNavyRad

 

[former military]

I trained in the AF in San Antonio for 6 years in urology and was staff for 5 years. I was trained well only because the staff urologists were so hard working and resourceful at dodging and getting around the multitude of barriers designed to limit access and keep patients out of the OR. I learned that I was a resource consumer rather than a revenue generator versus my civilian counterparts. I had a busy staff practice and operated a lot. Military patients and retirees are great to care for. There are so many ridiculous military rules that are barriers to production... it is so very very very frustrating...While I was active duty I moonlighted in a couple of different private practice offices and hospitals and a major HMO. I made almost as much moonlighting as I did as a staff spending 5-10% of the time doing it! I loved to moonlight as the hospital staff actually respected me and worked with me to get things done. Making the ancillary staff work in the AF was so hard. I thought I had the best job in the AF for 3 of my 5 years at my base. We had new command come in and they are always changing the mission and their own personal agenda... commands change every 2 years... the continued war and shortage of bodies soon made me the only one doing the job of 3 doctors. Call everynight... the worst was no feeling of appreciation from management. I worked much harder as a resident before the 80 hr/week limits and even as a resident I was more appreciated. Many of the complaints we physicians had were preventable or fixable but nobody cared to make change. Nobody wanted to proactively anticipate the problems and plan to deal with them. I couldn't be deployed as I had asthma... in reality I certainly could have taken some albuterol, advair, and singulair over there and been fine but there was an idiotic whammy rule that said I couldn't be deployed no matter what! It was the only stupid rule that ever worked for me.
I joined the AF through HPSP for the money as I was too scared to take out loans. I had no insight into what I was getting into. In retrospect, it was a bad financial move. I got very good training but was very lucky. While I was a resident, an HPSP student first in his class at Emory got turned down for a training spot as we only had two slots available (civilian deferred and military). He had to see foot blister clinic for the new recruits for a year and reapply. Many other students gave up their dream of urology and did other specialties because the military constricted the training access. The joint forcast board didn't want to train too many urologists. Emphasis is not placed on retainment.

I would urge people thinking of an hpsp scholarship or going to ushus to really think hard about it. Chasing the money carrot is the wrong wrong move... think about the impact on your future family and on you as a 35-40 yr old not you as a 23-26 yr old single dumb student. If you really want to serve that is great or if you really want a flight or dive medicine or war medicine go ahead. If you really want to be a trauma surgeon or great ER guy go to a civilian program in dallas, baltimore, etc.

I really had a problem with people running the hospital who had no idea of what we were doing with patients or in the operating room. We had nurses and physical therapists as our commanders... sometimes a pharmacist... they just had no clue.... because I am a colonel means I can run something I have no clue about? If you want to fly the airplane don't go to stewardess school...
peace out

 

[former military]

Now that I am out of the military I have often thought of writing a book about it.... certainly not to make money... but perhaps to get all the frustration out.... I could try to write the military medicine Catch-22 which I would almost certainly fail... or get a group of present and past military physicians to write a couple of pages of their experiences and frustrations... the active duty people would likely need to be anonymous to escape the vindictive hammer of their commands and using our real name would likely get us on a government anti american watch list...

 

[USAFdoc]

Now that I am out of the military I have often thought of writing a book about it.... certainly not to make money... but perhaps to get all the frustration out.... I could try to write the military medicine Catch-22 which I would almost certainly fail... or get a group of present and past military physicians to write a couple of pages of their experiences and frustrations... the active duty people would likely need to be anonymous to escape the vindictive hammer of their commands and using our real name would likely get us on a government anti american watch list...

I have also thought of writing a book; perhaps we need to get several of us together to each pen a chapter or two.

 

[island doc]

Air Force ROTC, Five years as a line officer, AF HPSP, Civilian Deferred Transitional Year, Four Years as a GMO, Separated, Civilian FP Residency, Resigned Commission.

Cannot recommend the AF HPSP program, for reasons too numerous to mention.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I have also thought of writing a book; perhaps we need to get several of us together to each pen a chapter or two.

I've wrote a couple of chapters for a book......

 

[Galo]

Now that I am out of the military I have often thought of writing a book about it.... certainly not to make money... but perhaps to get all the frustration out.... I could try to write the military medicine Catch-22 which I would almost certainly fail... or get a group of present and past military physicians to write a couple of pages of their experiences and frustrations... the active duty people would likely need to be anonymous to escape the vindictive hammer of their commands and using our real name would likely get us on a government anti american watch list...

I have 2-3 cd's with 4-6 yrs worth of emails, and boxes of papers that I kept. I went as far a contacting a buddy who can write, but then real life took over.

I am in the middle of a practice change, but I am also still holding on to emotions that I think need to be put on paper. There are so many of us, with so many stories, that we should have plenty of material. I'm sure that there are even more out there that had as bad or worse experiences that have just let it go because they are extremely busy, rich, or just see it as something in the past that they can't do anything about. I'm sure with time, these ranks will continue to grow.

 

[Informer]

[flame]
man, you're pathetic

it seems like every other week you start a new thread about how much military medicine sucks. Ive been on this board for a few years and when I come into this forum, this is all I see. Posts from pretty much the same people whining about how much military medicine sucked.

Yes it sucked, we get that. Can't you get over it and move on with your life?

For those that are in, just stick with it until you can get out. Make the best of what you have even if it's a horrible situation. Life is all about perspective.

Don't you have other things to do?
[/flame]

 

[militarymd]

[flame]
man, you're pathetic

it seems like every other week you start a new thread about how much military medicine sucks. Ive been on this board for a few years and when I come into this forum, this is all I see. Posts from pretty much the same people whining about how much military medicine sucked.

Yes it sucked, we get that. Can't you get over it and move on with your life?

For those that are in, just stick with it until you can get out. Make the best of what you have even if it's a horrible situation. Life is all about perspective.

Don't you have other things to do?
[/flame]

This thread is not for you....

Thank you for not posting anymore.

This thread is meant for negative posters to get their names all in one place, so that new readers can search ALL of our previous posts.

This will address your "concern" about all the new negative threads.

 

[orbitsurgMD]

[flame]
man, you're pathetic

it seems like every other week you start a new thread about how much military medicine sucks. Ive been on this board for a few years and when I come into this forum, this is all I see. Posts from pretty much the same people whining about how much military medicine sucked.

Yes it sucked, we get that. Can't you get over it and move on with your life?

For those that are in, just stick with it until you can get out. Make the best of what you have even if it's a horrible situation. Life is all about perspective.

Don't you have other things to do?

[/flame]

Can the reader infer that you disagree with Galo?

I don't see where he has started a thread every other week, but I assume you meant the exaggeration as a way of pointing out the consistency of his postings.

Is that not his right, though? And neither you, nor anyone else has to read his posts if you don't want to. It seems to bother you that he is persistent. Does it bother you equally much when other posters with contrary positions post frequently? Do you think that because you are tired of his message that Galo should just shut up?

There aren't very many outlets for the unvarnished truth about practice and training in military medical facilities. This is one of the few. By contrast, the services have legions of recruiters and tens of millions of taxpayers' dollars to project the messages they want public about their activities. Don't count on them for an unbiased view.

Potential applicants ought get more than the recruiter's pitch. If you have signed already and the opinions on this board come too late to change your decision, remember that for most of those posting their negative experiences we didn't have the benefit of an internet resource of independent opinion.

Several of us would like to see things run differently in military medicine. The services have little motivation to change as long as their source of accessions remains adequate to maintain the status quo. Misrepresenting their practice conditions and training opportunities has absolutely no consequence to those who think that is an acceptable way to recruit unless bad behavior has consequences. Drying up the willing candidate pool by exposing the deceptions and abuses of the military medical enterprise to otherwise unsuspecting applicants is one way to compel those in leadership to recognize that business as usual will not be possible. So be it.

As for Galo, I hope he never stops posting. Freedom of speech is a great thing, something to think about tomorrow.

 

[Monty Python]

[flame]
man, you're pathetic

it seems like every other week you start a new thread about how much military medicine sucks. Ive been on this board for a few years and when I come into this forum, this is all I see. Posts from pretty much the same people whining about how much military medicine sucked.

Yes it sucked, we get that. Can't you get over it and move on with your life?

For those that are in, just stick with it until you can get out. Make the best of what you have even if it's a horrible situation. Life is all about perspective.

Don't you have other things to do?
[/flame]

With all due respect I'd like to reply to this.

Yes, the former bitter members have legitimate personal gripes, due to their experiences with the US military medical Borg. There's no perfect oasis anywhere in life in any job. So, "just suck it up" may have some degree of legitimacy.

BUT ...... one could also argue that the complainers have merit from a different and non-personal perspective. Meaning, their complaints are not for themselves, but for their patients. They don't necessarily wish for change for themselves, but for improving the quality and efficiency of care their patients receive. I'm all for that.

So, ask yourself prior to flaming: on what level are the complainers voicing their observations: just to hear themselves whine about water already under the bridge, or as a vehicle to potential change so the world's finest patient population receives the care they deserve with minimal BS, inefficiency, waste, and thinly-qualified providers (ie, GMOs?). Thank you.

 

[Monty Python]

I have 2-3 cd's with 4-6 yrs worth of emails, and boxes of papers that I kept. I went as far a contacting a buddy who can write, but then real life took over.

I am in the middle of a practice change, but I am also still holding on to emotions that I think need to be put on paper. There are so many of us, with so many stories, that we should have plenty of material. I'm sure that there are even more out there that had as bad or worse experiences that have just let it go because they are extremely busy, rich, or just see it as something in the past that they can't do anything about. I'm sure with time, these ranks will continue to grow.

I'm sure a headline-hungry writer with Time, Newsweek, US News and World Report, etc, would love to hear from you.

 

[Galo]

[flame]
man, you're pathetic

it seems like every other week you start a new thread about how much military medicine sucks. Ive been on this board for a few years and when I come into this forum, this is all I see. Posts from pretty much the same people whining about how much military medicine sucked.

Yes it sucked, we get that. Can't you get over it and move on with your life?

For those that are in, just stick with it until you can get out. Make the best of what you have even if it's a horrible situation. Life is all about perspective.

Don't you have other things to do?
[/flame]

Whether you are refering to me or not does not matter. Wha is evident, is that you are not in a field where just "sucking it up" is an acceptable way to take care of patients. When you are in a situation where your skills are eroding, and you see that patients life's are being endangered because some Ahole nurse sees your job different, or for multiple reasons that have been posted extensively, and you are looking at this continuing or getting worse for the next 3-4 years, then is not the time to try to make the best out of it. The best out of it, is people who really need our care, getting dumped by the wayside. Its understandable that you may accept mediocracy as the status quo of military medicine, and that if you are a physician you may choose or only be able to provide that status quo, but DO NOT lecture those of us with the desire, drive, and self capacity to provide excellence when we are trying to educate unsuspecting, gullible young people with a misguided perception of what the military really is like, when we try to tell them that right now military medicine is CRAP, and should be avoided like a plague until the upper level management begins to understand the deplorable conditions under which they are treating their soldiers, both doctors and patients.

Happy 4th, why dont you tell us about your wonderful AF or otherwise military medical experience so far??

 

[FliteSurgn]

Add my name to the negative list. Former flight surgeon, soon to be former military general surgeon.