Thought Puzzle: Medical School without college

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mlong

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For brevity's this question comes sans reasons, but how would you get into an american medical school legally (no hacking, forged documents, etc.) without college?

Remember, unlike medical school itself, premedicine cover topics one should have no difficultly self-studying.

Further, there was a time when medical schools had admission exams. The general idea is that with writing a strong essay, offering to take comprehensive finals, great mcat scores, life experiences, etc. one could make a stronger case than any college education could provide. Even more interesting, a growing number of public labs makes doing self-directed research all the easier, and obviously the internet has a huge impact on ones ability to learn.

One needn't bother answering in the tritely dismissive; this is a thought puzzle after all.

It will probably prove boring, but I'm curious as to what the hive mind can conceive. And are there any admission people reading this who would even think of inviting such a candidate to an interview?

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I wish I had the slightest idea as to what the hell you are talking about.
 
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Why would you want to skip college? It's the time when most people get away from home and grow up.
 
+1

most schools require a degree or atleast 90 hours, correct?


i dont remember where i saw it but most schools don't really require a degree but it's recommended. and the word recommended was in bold. I mean some students applying don't have a degree so perhaps as long as you're pursing a degree i guess that counts.

to the OP are you talking about pulling a will hunting and go to med school without college? I mean sure you can take the MCATs but when you apply with AMCAS to get into med school you do have to report a GPA. If you have no GPA to speak of then how can schools put you in their system or file you for that matter.
 
I wish I had the slightest idea as to what the hell you are talking about.

I wish I understood what you can't understand.

+1

most schools require a degree or atleast 90 hours, correct?

Hence the puzzle.


Why would you want to skip college? It's the time when most people get away from home and grow up.

Because I was home-schooled, finished high school in a <year, and am tired of people who are "growing up" , are 20-somethings and quite frankly, not too bright. Edit: I understand there will be annoying patients, doctors, etc. and, as a medical student and then doctor, the circumstances would bother me less.

Also, I really would like to practice medicine, well, soon.

Further, a better question, why on earth would you want college? It's slow, expensive, has no correlation to personal ability, generally useless, and I vastly prefer the friends I've made out of college (in a professional setting) to people I've met within.
 
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to the OP are you talking about pulling a will hunting and go to med school without college? I mean sure you can take the MCATs but when you apply with AMCAS to get into med school you do have to report a GPA. If you have no GPA to speak of then how can schools put you in their system or file you for that matter.
Having done lots of programming, a lack of a GPA should not crash a system, and could be entered as 0.00 for all I really care. But yes, you have the general idea. Also, AMCAS could be avoided....

Actually I was thinking of doing what I did for college:

Dear {college omitted} ,

here are some essays I wrote, here are lots of test scores, here are LoRs from people I've worked for, and here's what I've done with my life...

PLEASE LET ME IN!!:D
 
You know I have to agree that college is where people mature and learn to study. I can say that middle and high school didn't offer those sorts of things.

I think also that there would be a higher atrition rate with the model you are talking aout i.e. just letting people in. I think most medical schoos have a pretty low atrition rate because people have done the work to be there. Also another thing is you show your determination to being a Doctor through going through college. Yes they'll let you in with 90 semester hours of coursework, but if you read the fine print on most pages it says preference is give to those holding a Bachelor's degree.

In Europe you get your premed training in high school, and go though med school after, and it's still comparable to our programs.

Honestly.......I think you are asking if the med school community would be willing to give up one of their screening processes, just like the MCAT (which is a kind of admissions test), you're asking them to suddenly open the floodgates so to speak. I think that research for personalenhancement is wonderful. I participate in it in my spare moments. However sefteaching doesn't necessarily = having someone who can help you and monitor. Where would we get all th LORs required?

Seriously the process is there for a reason. Those that don't really want to go to med school often give up during the journey and mve on to something else, and are happy.

It's about who wants it the most, how much you know it, how much you feel it, and are you willing to do what you have to do to gt what you want?

If the answer is yes, then show the adcoms that's the how you feel through your coursework, life experiences, and the way you interview.

A
 
You know I have to agree that college is where people mature and learn to study. I can say that middle and high school didn't offer those sorts of things.

I think also that there would be a higher atrition rate with the model you are talking aout i.e. just letting people in. I think most medical schoos have a pretty low atrition rate because people have done the work to be there. Also another thing is you show your determination to being a Doctor through going through college. Yes they'll let you in with 90 semester hours of coursework, but if you read the fine print on most pages it says preference is give to those holding a Bachelor's degree.

In Europe you get your premed training in high school, and go though med school after, and it's still comparable to our programs.

Honestly.......I think you are asking if the med school community would be willing to give up one of their screening processes, just like the MCAT (which is a kind of admissions test), you're asking them to suddenly open the floodgates so to speak. I think that research for personalenhancement is wonderful. I participate in it in my spare moments. However sefteaching doesn't necessarily = having someone who can help you and monitor. Where would we get all th LORs required?

Seriously the process is there for a reason. Those that don't really want to go to med school often give up during the journey and mve on to something else, and are happy.

It's about who wants it the most, how much you know it, how much you feel it, and are you willing to do what you have to do to gt what you want?

If the answer is yes, then show the adcoms that's the how you feel through your coursework, life experiences, and the way you interview.

A

For one, I'm assuming you inferred[sic] that I went to a low end school; I actually got into the ivy league. This probably had more to do with the fact that I published (in math) while in HS, but still.

I'm also excellent at studying, well disciplined, and a competent autodidact. Further, I'm not asking them to make it easy. Quite the opposite, I want them to throw a challenge at me so I can prove my worth.

Further, some people grow faster and don't require the slow LCD pace of college. Some of us can read the textbook, do a few practice problems, and still be able to remember it years later.

Finally, I don't think "the process is there for a reason", at least not a good, well though out one. Mentors, LoRs, and the like don't have to come directly from a college you are attending.

Edit: And as a general PS, there's really no ceteris paribus way to compare colleges anyway. The work in a CC may me more useful than work in an ivy depending on the teacher, grade inflation, etc.
 
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It's also worth noting that I have no problem staying in college; it would simply be nice to have a faster way. I'm already making a list of medical schools that have accelerated programs. :D

I have my reasons for medicine, and I've already shown a strong commitment to both medicine and education.

I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.
Mark Twain
 
Trust me. You don't want to rush to medical school. The only thing the winner gets is a job. It might be a job you love, but it is still a job. One reason you learn to love a job is because of past life experiences and knowing what the alternatives are. Also, many of the much younger people I know in medical school are about as interesting as a rock. They lack the ability to relate with patients. They lack the life experiences to make them unique and interesting people.

Go to college. It may or may not be a life changer, but I'd go with it benefiting you. High school is easy. I don't feel like I learned one thing during it. I didn't graduate early because of the requirements of the school. I skipped class all the time and slept. I did homework in the class before to turn in, effectively not paying attention to any word said. I got my varsity letter in tennis, swimming, football and track while also being in marching band, indoor drumline, NHS, BPA, science team, fine arts team, blah blah blah. I thought I was God's gift.

Then I went to college and got my arse handed to me the very first semester.
 
No one says you need to go to a traditional 4 year, residential college. Get a job, go to night school... it might take 7 years, or 10, but you'll come out of it with life experience as well as with the sheepskin. There have been a few brilliant applicants who have started college at 14 and applied to med school at 17 but they did go to college.
 
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your interpersonal ability and humility definitely need work. good thing you need to stay in school. this is also not so much of a "puzzle" as it is a chance for you to expound upon your superiority and transcendance of the system that is in place. chances are the plebeians you so disdain are not too fond of you either. get over yourself and make some friends and gain some new perspectives.
 
Trust me. You don't want to rush to medical school. The only thing the winner gets is a job. It might be a job you love, but it is still a job. One reason you learn to love a job is because of past life experiences and knowing what the alternatives are. Also, many of the much younger people I know in medical school are about as interesting as a rock. They lack the ability to relate with patients. They lack the life experiences to make them unique and interesting people.

Go to college. It may or may not be a life changer, but I'd go with it benefiting you. High school is easy. I don't feel like I learned one thing during it. I didn't graduate early because of the requirements of the school. I skipped class all the time and slept. I did homework in the class before to turn in, effectively not paying attention to any word said. I got my varsity letter in tennis, swimming, football and track while also being in marching band, indoor drumline, NHS, BPA, science team, fine arts team, blah blah blah. I thought I was God's gift.

Then I went to college and got my arse handed to me the very first semester.

Again...I'm not a bad student...I'm IN college...I've BEEN in college..a very good-supposedly-very-hard-college....I have perfect grades...in the hardest classes I could take (not freshmen level)..I'm in graduate level math...I have other options...I've worked for a very large, very well know company, while in my teens. I've had some of the worst life experiences a person could ever have inflicted on them. I'm interesting (ish)...and I successfully got a date with a quantum mech. based pick up line (which speaks more about my ability to cook stuff that smells really good).

What this means...

a) I'm not about to ditch college
b) I figured if I attracted a lot of "me too"'s then I'd see what I could do about maybe starting some sort of program (which probably wouldn't help me, but could instead be used by future students)
c) I'm always curious about other peoples' creative musings
 
your interpersonal ability and humility definitely need work. good thing you need to stay in school. this is also not so much of a "puzzle" as it is a chance for you to expound upon your superiority and transcendance of the system that is in place. chances are the plebeians you so disdain are not too fond of you either. get over yourself and make some friends and gain some new perspectives.

*Sigh*...I have friends...good friends. Really.
Further, people in my classes (even the grad students) ask me for help, and I'm always happy to give it. Further, my best friend is one of those grad students who so dislike me.

And I don't think people are beneath me. I think I was robbed of my childhood and ended up growing up WAYYYYY faster than I needed to.

I have good people skills too. I worked at a hospice for years, and was always reviewed well. I got along most excellently with the patients. I also worked as a CNA, ( now I work as a research assistant).

P.S. Interpersonal ability is rather hard to assess from the web. It's harder to be tactful, and there's far less reason to be anything less than honest. Also, I can't help but notice you were as condescending as you accused me of being.
 
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No one says you need to go to a traditional 4 year, residential college. Get a job, go to night school... it might take 7 years, or 10, but you'll come out of it with life experience as well as with the sheepskin. There have been a few brilliant applicants who have started college at 14 and applied to med school at 17 but they did go to college.

Very well.

I still assert that medical schools should go back to the days of multiday admissions exams.

And again, for the record, I've had plenty of life experiences.

Please note, I'm abandoning this thread. In hindsight, I'm not really sure if I expected it to turn out differently. Also, I'm semi-sorry if I offended anyone. I didn't mean to, but it really didn't seem as though I wrote anything that should have.
 
You sound pretty smart - much smarter than me. If you are already in college, take all the required courses for admission at an extremely accelerated pace, take the MCAT, then apply. If you're as smart as you think you are, you could certainly finish gen chem, physics, bio, and orgo in two years, tops. Maybe a year + one summer. Take the MCAT. Apply with a high 30+ score and you're in.

I'm not trying to be a wise@ss. If you're as smart as you say you are, you could do it in two years.
 
your interpersonal ability and humility definitely need work. good thing you need to stay in school. this is also not so much of a "puzzle" as it is a chance for you to expound upon your superiority and transcendance of the system that is in place. chances are the plebeians you so disdain are not too fond of you either. get over yourself and make some friends and gain some new perspectives.

This.

OP is either a troll, or honestly just a sad, stereotypical home-school kid who has no interpersonal skills.

I'm hoping you're a troll, but I'm afraid you're the latter.
 
This.

OP is either a troll, or honestly just a sad, stereotypical home-school kid who has no interpersonal skills.

I'm hoping you're a troll, but I'm afraid you're the latter.
I'll take him at his word that he's a friendly person IRL with friends. That being said, OP, a lot of us have been that hotshot going in to college, so trust our general wisdom when the lot of us say you'll probably look back on this a few years down the line and agree.
 
I'll take him at his word that he's a friendly person IRL with friends. That being said, OP, a lot of us have been that hotshot going in to college, so trust our general wisdom when the lot of us say you'll probably look back on this a few years down the line and agree.


I just read his last few posts, maybe I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. He could still learn a little humility though if you ask me.
 
mlong:

Firstly, let's clear this little misunderstanding up right away. I have not nor will I ever imply that someone is at a "low end" school. That is simply not how I feel or work. I am a first generation born in the United States to a Peruvian immigrant, education is important, and frankly, there are NO shortcs to anything good. That is the honest truth. My mother became an X-Ray tech barely knowing the language. She even got a GED. She attended a small City Collge in San Francisco, and has done well for herself, and my father is American, and a hard working painter for the schools. There is no LOW END to me, Education is valuable. I went to trade school and became a massage therapist. I did a hospital internship. I certainly didn't think that was low endeducation.

I can make no assumptions based on your homeschooling background. I don't know how your parents home schooled you. I know there are differences between being in school, and being homeschooled. Perhaps the value in going to college for you would be simply learning to be in that environment where there is class with more than one person? I am not saying you don't know how to do this. I am jsut sayin there are things to be learned. I chose a small private school for my premed education at the age of 29 because I know that I don't fare well in huge classroom environement, I have supportive instructors and great peoplearound me. What if I had never had a classroom larger than 30 people? I may not have known that about myself. Take it as the same thing, even if you feel ou are beyond your peers, it is good to learn from them why that is and how you can socially interact with them. I am very happy for you that you got into a ivy league school, that really is an accomplishment, take the time to enjoy it. Remember the quote that the Friar says in Romeo and Juliet "Careful my son for he thatdoth run shall surely fall."

If you have hurry up and get the hell out and into the workforce mentality, you will find so many obstacles at every turn. You'll find something tripping you up, relax, learn from your current set of circumstances, and time will pass quickly. This is the time for you to make friends, and meet people. You may need them later. I am making so many contacts here, it's mind blowing, and that in and of itself is worth the experince, and worth the slightly above state tuition that is charged.

The challenge you are being thrown mlong is how willing are yo to stay in college? If you truly feel that you need to go faster, then cme up with an IEP degree and work it out with your college. That way you can be completely self reliant and go at your own pace. Most coleges have IEPs now. And I can imagine that Ivy League schools have a ton of them. Make your challenge to meet someone influential each day each week, network, make friends, you never know who somone's father or mother is, and they can help you.

As far as the text, I am one of those people mlong, and frankly it's a good thing, and allows me to learn, and remember things and look them up years later, but I am by no means an expert in everything, and I ENJOY the learning experiences I have day to day with my friends, my instructors, people around me in the world. Whaever that day holds there is always something to learn. Look at the challenge as picking up something new each day. I hope you see the beauty and the newness in each day. I hope you find somehting to learn.

The pocess is not arbitrary, it has it's reasons. Tenacity is something that is built in a person and takes time. You're seeking instant gratification. If you geteverything when you want it how you want it, without having to work at it really, I mean send your apps off and get in, where's the learning process in that? I don't know what your age is, but college gives some life experience. I am not saying you don't have this, but make it your challenge to get throug college and stay in, and show your tenacity, dont tell it show it and your perserverence.

No, there is no comparing colleges and such, but you know.....get your education. Get a degree, and then t least you have something if something happens to your dream for medicine, I am not implying it will. In fact I hope people keep straight and focused ontheir goal, it's always on their minds. Goals can change, life can change. Keep all possibilities in mind.

If you really want I guess you ca go to a place you like for a few courses or your premed courses and transfer them back to your ivy league school, and then just get your degree from them. Thing can be done in different places at different schools.

mlong, it is GRAND and GREAT to have your reasons for medicine, and a strong educatonal committment. Why don't you show that educational committment by getting a degree in something you absolutely enjoy, and getting the pre-med pre-reqs on top of it?

A
 
This sounds like someone who's trying extremely hard to sound extremely smart. "I was homeschooled by Stephen Hawking and I graduated from Harvard when I was 12. I also wrote a book about quantum mechanics before age 14. They called me for advice about building the LHC. In my 700 level physics courses I always set the curve, however, I once failed a test just to see what it was like. I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis."

Frankly, it's annoying and I think this whole thread is BS.
 
^^^ if thats you in the avatar, andrea, im not gonna listen to anything you say.
 
this sounds like someone who's trying extremely hard to sound extremely smart. "i was homeschooled by stephen hawking and i graduated from harvard when i was 12. I also wrote a book about quantum mechanics before age 14. They called me for advice about building the lhc. In my 700 level physics courses i always set the curve, however, i once failed a test just to see what it was like. I don't always drink beer, but when i do, i drink dos equis."

frankly, it's annoying and i think this whole thread is bs.

+1
 
aawww reptar I'm not the see through x-ray person. Yes it's me in my av, the school managed to put it all over the web so I used it for an av. Yes it's me and cool no reason for you to listen to me :) You can politely disregard whatever it is I have to say ;)

A
 
Also, I'm semi-sorry if I offended anyone. I didn't mean to, but it really didn't seem as though I wrote anything that should have.

That you think you're so smart that you want to bypass the traditional requirements that others have not considered doing, no matter how smart they happen to be?

Drop some lines about how good you are at math and a sprinkle of Latin "all things being the same", and you have one really annoying internet poster.

I have a question, if you're as smart as you say you are, and as good with people as you say you are, then how did you completely step on your own dick while in this thread? I mean, you can bake thirty minute brownies in twenty minutes - right? Why couldn't you predict the response of a bunch of non-polyglot, non-polymaths in an internet forum?
 
People like you shouldn't be doctors. You've got this intolerable condescending attitude to you, like you've got all the cards; all the answers. Your the perfect reason why I am strongly against home schooling. You might be academically prepared, but you are barely socialized as a member of society. College is your anti-toxin, it hurts you to be around people, because you can't stand the reality that the world is this way. People are stupid, welcome to our world. Learn it, smile and nod and then be ready to learn to go with the flow.
College creates your world views my friend, take it and spend it learning about our little world. Maybe you'll after 4 years be a little bit better off as a whole being.
 
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college was good enough for even this guy..
Doogie_Howser_MD_290x400.jpg
 
"This sounds like someone who's trying extremely hard to sound extremely smart. "I was homeschooled by Stephen Hawking and I graduated from Harvard when I was 12. I also wrote a book about quantum mechanics before age 14. They called me for advice about building the LHC. In my 700 level physics courses I always set the curve, however, I once failed a test just to see what it was like. I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis."

This ^^
I think someone found out how to use a thesaurus.
 
I was homeschooled by Stephen Hawking and I graduated from Harvard when I was 12. I also wrote a book about quantum mechanics before age 14. They called me for advice about building the LHC. In my 700 level physics courses I always set the curve, however, I once failed a test just to see what it was like. I don't always drink beer, but when I do, I drink Dos Equis."

Hahahahahahaha

His tears can cure cancer... too bad he never cries.
 
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You sound pretty smart - much smarter than me. If you are already in college, take all the required courses for admission at an extremely accelerated pace, take the MCAT, then apply. If you're as smart as you think you are, you could certainly finish gen chem, physics, bio, and orgo in two years, tops. Maybe a year + one summer. Take the MCAT. Apply with a high 30+ score and you're in.

I'm not trying to be a wise@ss. If you're as smart as you say you are, you could do it in two years.

Medicine is not about being smart. Well obviously there's a certain cognitive capacity which plays into this all. But... medicine is a field of service and working with people, if you can't function with people without belittling them to the point where they would rather take a naturalistic approach. Well then my friend, there's no reason you should be in medicine. Hell there's a underling reason to why humanities majors get into medical school at higher rates then sciences. They are 'usually' more interesting and usually can function without other people because they are familiar with the ways humans think and preform in certain states.
People need to seriously take a course in sociology and the reality that schooling is about socialization of norms and thought processes before they home school. Sure they might be academically better off, but they totally end up either socially obscure and face a life of ambiguity.
 
tkim! I just read the 30 minute brownies in 20 minutes post, that was AWESOME! I am going to use that on some high school outreaches, and tell my friends on campus and a couple of instructors that would love that.

A
 
Why didn't you go the combined ungrad/med school route? It would have sparred some of that grueling undergraduate experience.
 
Now for some insight on the subject

A program that would cut down the amount of non-relevant undergraduate education or allow you to pursue an MD degreee at the same time as your undergrad would be amazing! You should be able to apply into it right from high school. Something exactly like the existing 36 BS/MD programs all across the country.
Find Schools By Program

Search Again Schools Offering Combined Degree Programs in BS/MD
Total Records: 36
University of Alabama School of Medicine

Baylor College of Medicine

University of Florida College of Medicine

George Washington University School of Medicine and Health Sciences

Howard University College of Medicine

Jefferson Medical College of Thomas Jefferson University

University of Kentucky College of Medicine

University of Miami Miller School of Medicine at Miami

Meharry Medical College

University of New Mexico School of Medicine

The Ohio State University College of Medicine

Keck School of Medicine of the University of Southern California

UMDNJ--New Jersey Medical School

Wayne State University School of Medicine

Warren Alpert Medical School of Brown University

University of South Florida College of Medicine

Brody School of Medicine at East Carolina University

The Texas A & M University System Health Science Center College of Medicine

Ponce School of Medicine

Virginia Commonwealth University School of Medicine

Temple University School of Medicine

Boston University School of Medicine

UMDNJ-Robert Wood Johnson Medical School

Stony Brook University Health Sciences Center School of Medicine

Tufts University School of Medicine

University of Connecticut School of Medicine

University of Rochester School of Medicine and Dentistry

University of Pittsburgh School of Medicine

Michigan State University College of Human Medicine

University of California, San Diego, School of Medicine

University of Cincinnati College of Medicine

Northwestern University, The Feinberg School of Medicine

Drexel University College of Medicine

University of Nevada School of Medicine

Northeastern Ohio Universities College of Medicine

Albany Medical Collegehttp://www.amc.edu/
AAMC.org

or the numerous other BS/DO, BA/MD, or BA/DO (?) programs already in place and working just fine.

If you are as smart as you want yourself to sound you should have been able to find these with a google search.
 
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Meh ;). Just declaring a opinion. We all can have one, right?

Of course.

But really, if education is all the OP knows (though he says otherwise), then a simple challenge like completing all the science prereqs for the MCAT and med school in less than two years should be child's play ... It's not about medicine, it's speaking to his ego in terms he can understand.
 
Way to perpetuate the stereotype, mlong. I was homeschooled too, and graduated high school a couple of years early. Yet somehow I managed to enjoy college. Yes, there are annoying drunken frat boys out there, but there were also really cool people in most of my classes. Just take a deep breath and realize that you've probably got another 80 years on the planet. Taking a few of them to enjoy college will (probably) not kill you.
 
That you think you're so smart that you want to bypass the traditional requirements that others have not considered doing, no matter how smart they happen to be?

Drop some lines about how good you are at math and a sprinkle of Latin "all things being the same", and you have one really annoying internet poster.

I have a question, if you're as smart as you say you are, and as good with people as you say you are, then how did you completely step on your own dick while in this thread? I mean, you can bake thirty minute brownies in twenty minutes - right? Why couldn't you predict the response of a bunch of non-polyglot, non-polymaths in an internet forum?
Oh man :laugh:

OP got OWNED!
 
mlong, LizzyM has a fantastic point, and she's the authority.

If you're not persuaded by that, then how about this: as you mentioned in your posts, and is evident in the replies, your "honesty" doesn't get you any admirers... Take college as an opportunity to learn some "dishonesty" (what the rest of us call people skills) so you won't be repulsive to your future colleagues/patients.
 
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I would like to submit my nomination for "most ******ed post ever".

To the OP. You should right personal letters to the deans of all the med schools you are interested in and explain in detail why they should accept you without a degree. I would include all the well thought out points that you have included on this thread plus any others your highly competent brain can muster. Please include your ability to win chicks w/ quantum physics-related pick up lines under your list of qualifications.

I am absolutely positive that you will be hearing from hoards of salivating Deans all tripping over each other to entice you to their school. Heck some of them will probably advance you to 2nd year. Just remember that medical schools love cocky, self-assured teenagers who are convinced that they are too good for the system.

Let us know where you get accepted. We will be waiting with fingers crossed.
 
I wish I understood what you can't understand.



Hence the puzzle.




Because I was home-schooled, finished high school in a <year, and am tired of people who are "growing up" , are 20-somethings and quite frankly, not too bright. Edit: I understand there will be annoying patients, doctors, etc. and, as a medical student and then doctor, the circumstances would bother me less.

Also, I really would like to practice medicine, well, soon.

Further, a better question, why on earth would you want college? It's slow, expensive, has no correlation to personal ability, generally useless, and I vastly prefer the friends I've made out of college (in a professional setting) to people I've met within.

Making assumptions such as this one makes you sound closed minded, quick to generalize and quite frankly like an ignoramus.
 
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