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The author has a more recent piece on a similar theme: Don't Send Your Kid to the Ivy League
It opens with an interesting anecdote about how admissions work at these schools.
That is an intriguing idea. Here's the relevant part of the article about Yale's undergrad admissions:I think the whole limiting the number of extracurriculars you can list idea mentioned in this would really help with most admissions processes. Too many of my friends have a desire to get 15 activities. Its absurd! They have 2-3 that matter to them and they actually enjoy. I listed 7 things, I could've honestly narrowed it down to 3. Imagine how much more interesting that section would be if they limited it to 5 instead of 15.
Scary thought. The author recommends:Kids who had five or six items on their list of extracurriculars—the “brag”—were already in trouble, because that wasn’t nearly enough.
That does sound like it would improve med school admissions.Colleges should put an end to résumé-stuffing by imposing a limit on the number of extracurriculars that kids can list on their applications. They ought to place more value on the kind of service jobs that lower-income students often take in high school and that high achievers almost never do. They should refuse to be impressed by any opportunity that was enabled by parental wealth. Of course, they have to stop cooperating with U.S. News.
That does sound like it would improve med school admissions.
This is such a valuable insight, @mehc012.It's amazing how strong the SE class barriers can be...and how often people either don't notice it, or dismiss it as unimportant because they utterly devalue the merits of the other side of the equation.
This already happens in medical school admissions with the limit of 15 activities. I can assure you with a high degree of confidence that without that limit there would be people who put many, many more activities than that.
That may be true, but i still think 15 is too many. How many people have 15 individual experiences that are really that in depth?
Me too.It's unfortunate that not every gifted mind gets the necessary opportunities to cultivate that intelligence. I wish I knew of a solution.
Wait, the Ivies don't auto-grant their students life experience?!?
But joking aside, this is why I really approve of schools who recognize that SE diversity is just as vital, if not more, as any other form. It's amazing how strong the SE class barriers can be...and how often people either don't notice it, or dismiss it as unimportant because they utterly devalue the merits of the other side of the equation.
Same 50% stat at my ivy league alma mater, but if you look closer you see that all students whose family incomes are less than $180,000 receive some sort of need-based aid. And that's great, but that means a full half of students come from families making more than $180,000 a year. Which is crazy. The resources are clearly there for students of lower SES, but not enough are taking advantage of it to actually change the school culture, which still is very stratified and a lot of the social scene is totally inaccessible to students who don't come from really wealthy families.I can only speak for Columbia, but about 50% of the student body pays full tuition while the other half receives need-based scholarships. For households that make less than $60,000 tuition, other fees, room and board, etc. are covered. This, however, does not mean than the side paying full tuition and the "full-ride" people actually intermingle. Plenty of schools recognize the need for SE diversity and try to meet it by doing aid-blind admissions, but there are no actual steps to integrate students of different backgrounds. The idea that Ivy League schools are still exclusively home to the privileged and white makes invisible a significant population of students, all for the sake of a news-worthy narrative.
https://www.facebook.com/columbiaclassconfessions
Yup. I went to a school which, while not technically an Ivy, is in the same ranking/price bracket/percentage of ridiculously wealthy students. My dorm-mate's parents were running the US economy or owning national hospital networks. I was the only one on my floor who was on financial aid. It was a bit of a culture shock, to say the least, and I definitely feel as if the accommodation came much more from the poor side of the pool than the wealthy. We learned to blend in and interact smoothly with our well-off counterparts, and to spare them awkwardness, rather than the other way around. I don't particularly mind that, as I think it is a valuable skill to have...but it certainly didn't help them any. I wouldn't say that the average student gleaned much benefit from the SE diversity which was present - instead, we all learned how to gloss it over and to ignore its existence.I can only speak for Columbia, but about 50% of the student body pays full tuition while the other half receives need-based scholarships. For households that make less than $60,000 tuition, other fees, room and board, etc. are covered. This, however, does not mean than the side paying full tuition and the "full-ride" people actually intermingle. Plenty of schools recognize the need for SE diversity and try to meet it by doing aid-blind admissions, but there are no actual steps to integrate students of different backgrounds. The idea that Ivy League schools are still exclusively home to the privileged and white makes invisible a significant population of students, all for the sake of a news-worthy narrative.
https://www.facebook.com/columbiaclassconfessions
Who cares? Then don't use 15 slots?
What's the point of a slots limit if the limit doesn't matter?
Good article. I agree, 15 is too many, but most schools wont fault you if you don't have 15.
I SERIOUSLY think this is a misconception among neurotic premeds.
Expand please?
I can only speak for Columbia, but about 50% of the student body pays full tuition while the other half receives need-based scholarships. For households that make less than $60,000 tuition, other fees, room and board, etc. are covered. This, however, does not mean than the side paying full tuition and the "full-ride" people actually intermingle. Plenty of schools recognize the need for SE diversity and try to meet it by doing aid-blind admissions, but there are no actual steps to integrate students of different backgrounds. The idea that Ivy League schools are still exclusively home to the privileged and white makes invisible a significant population of students, all for the sake of a news-worthy narrative.
https://www.facebook.com/columbiaclassconfessions
...this isn't common knowledge amongst people of lower SES though. Even if it was, I doubt that would result in a significant increase of lower SES students at these schools, as their likelihood of having a competitive application it is low. A lot of low SES kids , such as myself, get sidetracked early in our education and any chances of getting into a school like Yale would be nearly impossible.
I think it's also surreal that a household income of <60k is low enough to merit a full-ride; that's roughly 11k more than the median household income in my state. That's not to say that it isn't generous, but the people who could benefit the most from the economic mobility that an ivy education provides are usually already shut out of the system. It's rare that a very low SES student will get the resources and encouragement they need to make it into an Ivy League school.
What the hell kind of events are those rich kids engaging in that are so unaffordable? Hunting the homeless from helicopters in the jungles of Belize or something?Same 50% stat at my ivy league alma mater, but if you look closer you see that all students whose family incomes are less than $180,000 receive some sort of need-based aid. And that's great, but that means a full half of students come from families making more than $180,000 a year. Which is crazy. The resources are clearly there for students of lower SES, but not enough are taking advantage of it to actually change the school culture, which still is very stratified and a lot of the social scene is totally inaccessible to students who don't come from really wealthy families.
The fortunate thing for you is that success in life does not require an Ivy League education.
What the hell kind of events are those rich kids engaging in that are so unaffordable? Hunting the homeless from helicopters in the jungles of Belize or something?
My freshman year I had a conversation with another premed about class in the US and he was shocked to learn that his parents earning 500k+ a year did indeed make him rich. He also feels that 700k+ is the threshold for making "enough" money.
The woes of the leisure class.
Try and ask what people that go to other ivy league schools think of Columbia. Hint: Not very highly.I can only speak for Columbia, but about 50% of the student body pays full tuition while the other half receives need-based scholarships. For households that make less than $60,000 tuition, other fees, room and board, etc. are covered. This, however, does not mean than the side paying full tuition and the "full-ride" people actually intermingle. Plenty of schools recognize the need for SE diversity and try to meet it by doing aid-blind admissions, but there are no actual steps to integrate students of different backgrounds. The idea that Ivy League schools are still exclusively home to the privileged and white makes invisible a significant population of students, all for the sake of a news-worthy narrative.
https://www.facebook.com/columbiaclassconfessions
Try and ask what people that go to other ivy league schools think of Columbia. Hint: Not very highly.
I never said that it was and I'm glad that it's not.
...this isn't common knowledge amongst people of lower SES though. Even if it was, I doubt that would result in a significant increase of lower SES students at these schools, as their likelihood of having a competitive application it is low. A lot of low SES kids , such as myself, get sidetracked early in our education and any chances of getting into a school like Yale would be nearly impossible.
I think it's also surreal that a household income of <60k is low enough to merit a full-ride; that's roughly 11k more than the median household income in my state. That's not to say that it isn't generous, but the people who could benefit the most from the economic mobility that an ivy education provides are usually already shut out of the system. It's rare that a very low SES student will get the resources and encouragement they need to make it into an Ivy League school.
Try and ask what people that go to other ivy league schools think of Columbia. Hint: Not very highly.
That's because if Harvard et al. really cared about equality they wouldn't be accepting >50% of the .1%. If they actually did that, Harvard would lose its luster, since it's not really about getting an education it's about connecting with rich people that can help you down the line (potentially). Who would go to Harvard if there were no sons/daughters of the titans of industry?
Try and ask what people that go to other ivy league schools think of Columbia. Hint: Not very highly.
Greek life is the bigger one. It's rich kid central and the fees for some Greek groups are larger than the cost of attendance here. "Fiji" for example costs more here than actually going to school here and they have the biggest, nicest house in the campus area (it looks like a plantation). I have a friend at SMU in Dallas (rich kid central in itself) and he rushed. When he was rushing Fiji they asked him what his dad did and if his dad could connect them with job opportunities later down the line. He didn't get too far in the rush process with them.
Greek life is also very, very white and is exclusive for other reasons besides money. Personally, I don't partake in Greek life because I don't see the point in buying my friends and I don't let other people tell me what to wear or how I can and cannot spend my time and with who, however, it's a significant part of college social life - more so at some places than others.
I seriously appreciate my greek experience when I read stuff like this. When all was said and done, COL in the fraternity was about a grand cheaper per year where I went to school (mostly because of the board plan). It was also hard to be elitist or exclusive when over 60% of the students on campus were Greek.
Sure we lived in relative squalor, but it was squalor with a DirecTV and over 250 channels (yay for economies of scale).
This implies two things: economic mobility is most available from an Ivy League education and, conversely, that other avenues that do not include getting an Ivy League education do not provide that same mobility. Both are wrong.
Yup. I went to a school which, while not technically an Ivy, is in the same ranking/price bracket/percentage of ridiculously wealthy students. My dorm-mate's parents were running the US economy or owning national hospital networks.... <snip>
At the very least, I hope I will be able to carry the perspective of my less-fortunate years into my own practice.
Try and ask what people that go to other ivy league schools think of Columbia. Hint: Not very highly.
Relevant article from the Boston Globe about being a poor student at an Ivy League school: http://www.bostonglobe.com/magazine...ague-school/xPtql5uzDb6r9AUFER8R0O/story.html