Thoughts about Elizabeth Warren's New Health Plan?

[AMEHigh]

I don’t think we need cops to shut places like that down, the customers will do it

I don’t think cops get involved in cases of discrimination, they’re usually civil matters.

But overall I don’t think most people pay attention, let alone care that much to take action if they do pay attention.

Let’s take amazon for example. There’s pretty good evidence that they don’t treat their employees that great with safety concerns and they also sell a bunch of cheap stuff from overseas that could likely be made in sweat shops.

In general people only care about cheap prices and getting same day delivery. They could not care less that a worker might be working in a factory with no AC in 100 degree weather and getting sick or that a child overseas might’ve put together that plastic toy.

Let’s talk about the environment. Most people aren’t boycotting companies that have more plastic waste or worse dumping practices.

Most people aren’t investigating the hiring practices of the businesses that they frequent.

I think most people are selfish.

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[deleted480308]

I don’t think cops get involved in cases of discrimination, they’re usually civil matters.

But overall I don’t think most people pay attention, let alone care that much to take action if they do pay attention.

Let’s take amazon for example. There’s pretty good evidence that they don’t treat their employees that great with safety concerns and they also sell a bunch of cheap stuff from overseas that could likely be made in sweat shops.

In general people only care about cheap prices and getting same day delivery. They could not care less that a worker might be working in a factory with no AC in 100 degree weather and getting sick or that a child overseas might’ve put together that plastic toy.

Let’s talk about the environment. Most people aren’t boycotting companies that have more plastic waste or worse dumping practices.

Most people aren’t investigating the hiring practices of the businesses that they frequent.

I think most people are selfish.

Let it come out that amazon won’t sell to or hire black people and market share disintegrates. If the amazon warehouses suck that much the workers will leave.

People respond to what they actually care about

Edit*. Fully agree on selfishness

 

[deleted927028]

Last week my doctor prescribed me Farxiga. Today I went to the pharmacy to collect it and almost had a heart attack. They were quoting $980 for three month supply. I am having an insurance costing over $20000. If I have to pay $980 for drug why the f I have to pay over $20000 for insurance? What for? I walked out without buying. I checked the price in India, there it is only $10 for three months supply. There is no typo , just $10. Is there any end to this madness? Are we all just idiots with no shame or empathy? We are all made to believe we have the BEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD, I don’t know what the fk it means anymore. Republicans/Conservatives/Corporate Democrats all are trumpeting “there are 150 million idiots who love their private insurance, we should not take it away from them”. I am certainly not one of them. Actually I don’t really know what the hell is in it TO LOVE, I am dying to get MFA.

 

[deleted480308]

Last week my doctor prescribed me Farxiga. Today I went to the pharmacy to collect it and almost had a heart attack. They were quoting $980 for three month supply. I am having an insurance costing over $20000. If I have to pay $980 for drug why the f I have to pay over $20000 for insurance? What for? I walked out without buying. I checked the price in India, there it is only $10 for three months supply. There is no typo , just $10. Is there any end to this madness? Are we all just idiots with no shame or empathy? We are all made to believe we have the BEST HEALTHCARE IN THE WORLD, I don’t know what the fk it means anymore. Republicans/Conservatives/Corporate Democrats all are trumpeting “there are 150 million idiots who love their private insurance, we should not take it away from them”. I am certainly not one of them. Actually I don’t really know what the hell is in it TO LOVE, I am dying to get MFA.

One of the reasons the insurance is so expensive is because govt messed with and blocked preexisting condition charges and makes people buy insurance

Medicine is expensive because Americans will still buy it and cost to get to market here is huge along with huge liability. The best way to bring a price down here is for a lot of people to not buy it at the current price

 

[deleted927028]

One of the reasons the insurance is so expensive is because govt messed with and blocked preexisting condition charges and makes people buy insurance

Medicine is expensive because Americans will still buy it and cost to get to market here is huge along with huge liability. The best way to bring a price down here is for a lot of people to not buy it at the current price

You have no clue, isn’t it?

Other countries are able to provide comprehensive coverage including preexisting conditions, with no copay or deductible and minimum cost $5-$10 for any drug, all for under $5000-$6000 per family. Are they smart or we are just dumb? Why can’t we just do what they do as a nation instead of sucking up to the private insurance companies calling it stupid freedom?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You have no clue, isn’t it?

Other countries are able to provide comprehensive coverage including preexisting conditions, with no copay or deductible and minimum cost $5-$10 for any drug, all for under $5000-$6000 per family. Are they smart or we are just dumb? Why can’t we just do what they do as a nation instead of sucking up to the private insurance companies calling it stupid freedom?

Why don't you look up what the taxes look like in other countries and report back to the class.

Oh, and the difference in military spending between the US and everyone else.

 

[deleted480308]

You have no clue, isn’t it?

Other countries are able to provide comprehensive coverage including preexisting conditions, with no copay or deductible and minimum cost $5-$10 for any drug, all for under $5000-$6000 per family. Are they smart or we are just dumb? Why can’t we just do what they do as a nation instead of sucking up to the private insurance companies calling it stupid freedom?

Frankly put, look at the demand for immigration to those places.....it’s better here. We’re better, our care is better, allinclusive....we’re better

 

[Cornfed101]

Most people say going to a single-payer will solve all the problems with administrative costs, but I just don't think that's true. I worked as a claims and remittance rep with Epic for a number of hospitals on the East Coast and the vast majority of our work was trying to get paid by Medicare and Medicaid. The private insurance requirements were much more simple. If it is only Medicare you think it will become more simple? Why would they make things more simple?

 

[deleted927028]

Why don't you look up what the taxes look like in other countries and report back to the class.

Oh, and the difference in military spending between the US and everyone else.

Obviously they pay little more in taxes, you genius. So what? Did you think about what are the services they get for the additional tax and how much we pay for the same services here AS FEES? BTW why are you crying about taxes when we discuss about healthcare costs? Take their total healthcare spending, divide it by the number of people covered. Compare it with OUR SKYHIGH PREMIUMS, DEDUCTIBLES AND COPAYS. I know it is too complex for you to comprehend all this.

 

[deleted927028]

Most people say going to a single-payer will solve all the problems with administrative costs, but I just don't think that's true. I worked as a claims and remittance rep with Epic for a number of hospitals on the East Coast and the vast majority of our work was trying to get paid by Medicare and Medicaid. The private insurance requirements were much more simple. If it is only Medicare you think it will become more simple? Why would they make things more simple?

You are the one assuming that it is only about saving from administrative costs. There are a lot of things we do. Put in aggressive price controls for every line item and services by negotiating with hospitals, physicians, drug companies. We shouldn’t pay a cent more than the average price from say ten other countries. Atrocities like $32 Tylenol pill, $40 toothbrush, etc should become history. We should import drugs from cheaper places.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Obviously they pay little more in taxes, you genius. So what? Did you think about what are the services they get for the additional tax and how much we pay for the same services here AS FEES? BTW why are you crying about taxes when we discuss about healthcare costs? Take their total healthcare spending, divide it by the number of people covered. Compare it with OUR SKYHIGH PREMIUMS, DEDUCTIBLES AND COPAYS. I know it is too complex for you to comprehend all this.

So, your completely unnecessary insults aside, is their added tax burden when you compensate for their significantly decreased military spending comparable to our taxes plus insurance/deductible/and so on?

 

[Cornfed101]

You are the one assuming that it is only about saving from administrative costs. There are a lot of things we do. Put in aggressive price controls for every line item and services by negotiating with hospitals, physicians, drug companies. We shouldn’t pay a cent more than the average price from say ten other countries. Atrocities like $32 Tylenol pill, $40 toothbrush, etc should become history. We should import drugs from cheaper places.

I don’t disagree with you about drug prices being crazy. Artificially limiting price on services doesn’t seem viable though. We have a country full of people that want the best healthcare in the world without wanting to pay for everything that that entails. Nobody here wants to wait to see a doctor, but the waits we experience are a far cry from what they are elsewhere. You cannot have your cake and eat it to. I think that’s why socialized medicine will have trouble succeeding here. The American people expect everything now and for cheap. That’s impossible to provide under any system.

 

[deleted480308]

You are the one assuming that it is only about saving from administrative costs. There are a lot of things we do. Put in aggressive price controls for every line item and services by negotiating with hospitals, physicians, drug companies. We shouldn’t pay a cent more than the average price from say ten other countries. Atrocities like $32 Tylenol pill, $40 toothbrush, etc should become history. We should import drugs from cheaper places.

hospital prices are inflated because they have to treat patients for free and they get enforce govt monopoly via certificate of need. Let them toss people who don't pay, end certificate of need....and prices will drop

 

[deleted480308]

I strongly disagree with this sentiment. Bernie's medicare for all bill had 15 cosponsors in the senate and Pramila Jayapal's medicare for all bill in the house had over 100. Half the physicians I've seen on twitter are in favor of it and there's a doctor from PNHP who has been making rounds on the news promoting medicare for all. Both Bernie and Warren have pretty good chances of becoming the democratic nominee at this point. If they win the nomination then it's totally possible that they can beat trump. Half the country hates him so much that they would vote for literally anyone else over him. And if he becomes president then the democrats will just line up behind him just like republicans did with Trump. Even if they can't pass the exact bill, they'll do as much as they can to pass different laws that are closer and closer to it.

Personally I don't agree with medicare for all as it's being proposed but I acknowledge that it's absolutely possible for it to get passed. The country is so polarized right now. If they can elect Donald Trump (who nobody at all expected to make it all the way to the presidency, let alone to the republican nomination), then they can elect a socialist and get medicare for all passed.

The democrats will lost some of the base if they put up warren or bernie, they are too far

In the same way that the republicans lost some of theirs because of trump

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I strongly disagree with this sentiment. Bernie's medicare for all bill had 15 cosponsors in the senate and Pramila Jayapal's medicare for all bill in the house had over 100. Half the physicians I've seen on twitter are in favor of it and there's a doctor from PNHP who has been making rounds on the news promoting medicare for all. Both Bernie and Warren have pretty good chances of becoming the democratic nominee at this point. If they win the nomination then it's totally possible that they can beat trump. Half the country hates him so much that they would vote for literally anyone else over him. And if he becomes president then the democrats will just line up behind him just like republicans did with Trump. Even if they can't pass the exact bill, they'll do as much as they can to pass different laws that are closer and closer to it.

Personally I don't agree with medicare for all as it's being proposed but I acknowledge that it's absolutely possible for it to get passed. The country is so polarized right now. If they can elect Donald Trump (who nobody at all expected to make it all the way to the presidency, let alone to the republican nomination), then they can elect a socialist and get medicare for all passed.

You greatly overestimate the willingness of people to hand the keys to their finances to Sanders or Warren. These people will either simply not turn out, hold their noses and vote for Trump, or vote third party. They are too far left and they will lose a decent chunk of the base.

 

[sliceofbread136]

hospital prices are inflated because they have to treat patients for free and they get enforce govt monopoly via certificate of need. Let them toss people who don't pay, end certificate of need....and prices will drop

we’d have to end emtala and be cool with letting people die without care for that to work. Don’t think that is a step the American people are willing to take

 

[deleted480308]

we’d have to end emtala and be cool with letting people die without care for that to work. Don’t think that is a step the American people are willing to take

I agree, people like making other people buy them stuff

 

[Cornfed101]

we’d have to end emtala and be cool with letting people die without care for that to work. Don’t think that is a step the American people are willing to take

Is it any coincidence that euthanasia is popular in Europe where socialized medicine is also popular?

 

[SurfingDoctor]

Who knew healthcare was so complex?

As Out-Of-Pocket Health Costs Rise, Insured Adults Are Seeking Less Primary Care

When's the last time you checked in with your primary care provider? U.S. adults under age 65 made nearly 25% fewer visits to primary care providers in 2016 than in 2008, a big study finds.

www.npr.org

 

[tr]

So, your completely unnecessary insults aside, is their added tax burden when you compensate for their significantly decreased military spending comparable to our taxes plus insurance/deductible/and so on?

Yes indeed, roughly. For example, Finland has an average income tax rate of 50%, compared to 25% in the US. The mean household income for a family of 4 in the US is $60k, and mean yearly health care spending for a family of 4 is $12,378, or 20% of income. So adding health care costs to tax burden puts us within 5% of the Finnish tax rate. Consider that for those taxes they not only get free health care but also 1y maternity leave, high quality child care, and free college.

Opinion | Finland Is a Capitalist Paradise (Published 2019)

Can high taxes be good for business? You bet.

www.google.com

Of course as you note, if we wanted to cut back a bit on bombing innocent civilians in Afghanistan, we would have even more money to spend on useful services for our own citizens.

 

[Gyuji]

It's going to be a run-off election for Bernie Sanders. Biden and Warren team know they have to get good results in the New Hampshire primary but most likey, Sanders is going to win there by a good margin.

 

[deleted927028]

It's going to be a run-off election for Bernie Sanders. Biden and Warren team know they have to get good results in the New Hampshire primary but most likey, Sanders is going to win there by a good margin.

Sanders is going to be the president. No force can stop him at this point of time except the God. It is so fulfilling experience to see all the corporatists, CNN, MSNBC and who favor DO NOTHING politicians pee in their pants. I will be more than happy to pay for fellow Americans’ healthcare by paying more in taxes rather than to fill up the pockets of greedy , immoral private insurance thieves. Let them perish once for all. I do not want to see any of them again.

 

[VincentAdultman]

Sanders is going to be the president. No force can stop him at this point of time except the God. It is so fulfilling experience to see all the corporatists, CNN, MSNBC and who favor DO NOTHING politicians pee in their pants. I will be more than happy to pay for fellow Americans’ healthcare by paying more in taxes rather than to fill up the pockets of greedy , immoral private insurance thieves. Let them perish once for all. I do not want to see any of them again.

That’s cute. You’re cute.

 

[Lawpy]

Sanders is going to be the president. No force can stop him at this point of time except the God. It is so fulfilling experience to see all the corporatists, CNN, MSNBC and who favor DO NOTHING politicians pee in their pants. I will be more than happy to pay for fellow Americans’ healthcare by paying more in taxes rather than to fill up the pockets of greedy , immoral private insurance thieves. Let them perish once for all. I do not want to see any of them again.

This feels like a bot attempt to act like a Sanders supporter only to end up damaging his credibility and strengthening his opponents.

I've seen worse things when it comes to political discussions and support so who knows.

 

[deleted927028]

When Bernie wins , this is how the socialist America is going to look like. What a nightmare it will be for the citizens !!! No one will get to become bankrupt. No one will get to pay premium, deductibles, copays, drugs . No one will get to worry about in-network, out-of-network, hmo, ppo, Kaiser, Pos, etc. How boring getting sick is going to be? No wonder all the politicians, media guys and 60% of the population gang up against one 78 year old heart patient to save us from this peril. Let’s join the movement against the crazy old man and save the only capitalist country in the world. Canada, uk, Australia, NZ, Scandinavian countries all are stupid useless , communist , ignorant countries.

 

[deleted927028]

All the corporatist democratic candidates including Warren bash M4A and Sanders at every opportunity, saying it is going to cost 30 T and how are we going to pay for it? Well, you *****s did you ever go to elementary school and learn addition , subtraction etc? Do you ever think or ask yourself HOW MUCH WE ARE PAYING NOW AND HOW WE ARE PAYING NOW? ARE THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES GIVING AND GOING TO GIVE FREE HEALTHCARE? Such a shameless low lives!!! I don’t know how they look into their kids’ eyes and get sleep. These people will do anything for MONEY!!!

Look at the Nevada culinary union leaders !! How they brainwash the innocent , gullible members? SANDERS IS GOING TO TAKE YOUR INSURANCE !!! Really ? Taking away the insurance with $6000 deductible for single, $12000 for family and substitute with comprehensive coverage with no copay an deductibles, is such a disastrous situation? What kind of people have we become? Not a single soul on either parties, political pundits, media stalwarts, presidential candidates condemn this non sense. Everyone defends it and attacks Sanders shamelessly!!!

 

[deleted480308]

All the corporatist democratic candidates including Warren bash M4A and Sanders at every opportunity, saying it is going to cost 30 T and how are we going to pay for it? Well, you *****s did you ever go to elementary school and learn addition , subtraction etc? Do you ever think or ask yourself HOW MUCH WE ARE PAYING NOW AND HOW WE ARE PAYING NOW? ARE THE PRIVATE INSURANCE COMPANIES GIVING AND GOING TO GIVE FREE HEALTHCARE? Such a shameless low lives!!! I don’t know how they look into their kids’ eyes and get sleep. These people will do anything for MONEY!!!

Look at the Nevada culinary union leaders !! How they brainwash the innocent , gullible members? SANDERS IS GOING TO TAKE YOUR INSURANCE !!! Really ? Taking away the insurance with $6000 deductible for single, $12000 for family and substitute with comprehensive coverage with no copay an deductibles, is such a disastrous situation? What kind of people have we become? Not a single soul on either parties, political pundits, media stalwarts, presidential candidates condemn this non sense. Everyone defends it and attacks Sanders shamelessly!!!

yes, loss of freedom is a big deal

 

[NotAProgDirector]

All/most of the M4A plans suggest cutting reimbursement to Medicare rates. I work at a relatively lean / efficient place. We lose money on every Medicare patient (Medicare pays us about 95% of our actual costs). So if M4A were to happen at current Medicare rates, some major changes would be needed -- likely pay cuts. It is more complicated than this -- Medicare pays different hospitals different rates, my hospital is on the low end. So if this was leveled, we would be fine - but then hospitals in NYC would get huge cuts in their revenue.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Sanders is going to be the president. No force can stop him at this point of time except the God. It is so fulfilling experience to see all the corporatists, CNN, MSNBC and who favor DO NOTHING politicians pee in their pants. I will be more than happy to pay for fellow Americans’ healthcare by paying more in taxes rather than to fill up the pockets of greedy , immoral private insurance thieves. Let them perish once for all. I do not want to see any of them again.

This sounds vaguely familiar to the Bolsheviks and the maoists. Polpot followers, most of South America and Africa at somepoint. It worked well for them, you know unless you're one of the 120,000,000 people who were murdered by those regimes...

Yes literally 120 million people were killed by socialist governments in the last century. It really is sad that the kids these day are either too stupid to know the history or too egotistical to think they'd somehow do it differently.

There are problems when you give up you're rights and freedoms to the collective. There are issues when envy becomes the driving force of society.

 

[deleted1011020]

This sounds vaguely familiar to the Bolsheviks and the maoists. Polpot followers, most of South America and Africa at somepoint. It worked well for them, you know unless you're one of the 120,000,000 people who were murdered by those regimes...

Yes literally 120 million people were killed by socialist governments in the last century. It really is sad that the kids these day are either too stupid to know the history or too egotistical to think they'd somehow do it differently.

There are problems when you give up you're rights and freedoms to the collective. There are issues when envy becomes the driving force of society.

You can find mass murder among many if not all political philosophies/schools of thought so I'm not really understanding why you point out the first half as if its relevant.

I don't think its envy because if it was, they'd be promising luxuries rather than necessities (in Venezuela this was pretty common, where the lower economic classes are provided satellite TV and flat screens but live in dilapidated sheds).

 

[deleted480308]

You can find mass murder among many if not all political philosophies/schools of thought so I'm not really understanding why you point out the first half as if its relevant.

I don't think its envy because if it was, they'd be promising luxuries rather than necessities (in Venezuela this was pretty common, where the lower economic classes are provided satellite TV and flat screens but live in dilapidated sheds).

The communists were particularly adept at killing huge swaths of their own people

 

[deleted1011020]

The communists were particularly adept at killing huge swaths of their own people

No arguing with this. I just think its a really big stretch to equate Bernie Sanders to gulags and genocide. These kind of arguments are not conducive to conveying why M4A is not a good idea.

I admit, I was a big fan of the outcomes M4A would provide (increased access to healthcare), with no regard to the consequences and likely failures. Its important the argument against M4A is more nuanced and not McCarthy-esque in nature. For example, one could make it a point that we as a society need to be wholly aware that if we decide on M4A we are trading increased access for denying coverage for orphan/rare diseases (see Singapore), initiate a potential brain drain, and could greatly decrease the quality of healthcare delivered.

 

[Gyuji]

Well, it's no longer a race between Sanders and the other candidates. It's only a race between Sanders and the 50% + of the vote to outright win the nomination.

 

[deleted927028]

Well, it's no longer a race between Sanders and the other candidates. It's only a race between Sanders and the 50% + of the vote to outright win the nomination.

Well, if the field is shrunken to two, Sanders is beating biden/Bloomberg/Pete by 20 points in one-to-one race with them. After Super Tuesday, many people will drop out. I hope Warren drops out sooner, it will guarantee Sanders winning it outright.

 

[findoc]

A government takeover of our healthcare system would KILL innovation, KILL incentive among institutions to operate efficiently, KILL choice for both doctors and patients (it would be dictated to us by govt), and open the door even more to political power and influence in healthcare way beyond what already exists.

We are focusing on the wrong goals. We need to see innovation in healthcare as we have seen in other industries.

Suppose the govt had taken over the PC market in the late 90s. Would we have similar computers as we have today? No way! We'd still be stuck in the stone age of computers.

Why in the world would we want this for healthcare?

Let's bring on some silicon-valley-type innovation in healthcare!!!

 

[Instatewaiter]

You can find mass murder among many if not all political philosophies/schools of thought so I'm not really understanding why you point out the first half as if its relevant.

I don't think its envy because if it was, they'd be promising luxuries rather than necessities (in Venezuela this was pretty common, where the lower economic classes are provided satellite TV and flat screens but live in dilapidated sheds).

There has never been a more murderous force that collectivization. Twice as many people were killed by socialist governments in the 20th century than military and civilian deaths in both world war 1 and 2. Let that sink in. Governments killed citizens more than the two most massive wars the world has ever seen

There has never been a system which has brought more people out of poverty than capitalism... It is the solitary driver in the reduction of worldwide poverty. Instead of seeing that everyone is doing better with the system, the collectivists focus on division between the lowest and highest in society- which is arbitrary since everyone is doing better. It IS a system based upon envy and greed.

Socialism is a terrible system. It is why those who lived in true socialist societies rarely support us going to socialism. Until the collective memory of the horrors of socialism were forgotten by the young of this country, America was diametrically opposed to socialism. Unfortunately the youth are either too stupid to know the history or too egotistical to think that socialism has never been tried... No it has just never been a positive force

 

[findoc]

What I don't understand is why those on the left clamor for socialism and a more powerful government don't worry about a future someone with evil intentions getting voted into office???

Sanders or Warren may not have plans to get rid of people that oppose them, but by extending government overreach they will certainly pave the way and make it easier for the next person that comes along to do so.

 

[deleted480308]

What I don't understand is why those on the left clamor for socialism and a more powerful government don't worry about a future someone with evil intentions getting voted into office???

Sanders or Warren may not have plans to get rid of people that oppose them, but by extending government overreach they will certainly pave the way and make it easier for the next person that comes along to do so.

Socialism is itself an evil intention

 

[deleted1011020]

There has never been a more murderous force that collectivization. Twice as many people were killed by socialist governments in the 20th century than military and civilian deaths in both world war 1 and 2. Let that sink in. Governments killed citizens more than the two most massive wars the world has ever seen

There has never been a system which has brought more people out of poverty than capitalism... It is the solitary driver in the reduction of worldwide poverty. Instead of seeing that everyone is doing better with the system, the collectivists focus on division between the lowest and highest in society- which is arbitrary since everyone is doing better. It IS a system based upon envy and greed.

Socialism is a terrible system. It is why those who lived in true socialist societies rarely support us going to socialism. Until the collective memory of the horrors of socialism were forgotten by the young of this country, America was diametrically opposed to socialism. Unfortunately the youth are either too stupid to know the history or too egotistical to think that socialism has never been tried... No it has just never been a positive force

Isn't Bernie Sanders a democratic socialist though? And also what governments and countries are you referring to?

I'm not very familiar with history but I think the only democratic socialist countries in a strict sense are the Eastern European countries (ie Denmark). Also, I think you're confounding quite a bit different political systems/styles of governance/schools of thought (democratic socialism with communism/socialism ).

Again, just like some view Trump as a symptoms to issues among rural communities, I think Bernie Sanders' positions and sharp popularity among certain demographics should be an indicator that something is going on among these groups that's resulting in staunch support of a candidate with highly polarized/radical views from our current norms.

 

[deleted480308]

Isn't Bernie Sanders a democratic socialist though? And also what governments and countries are you referring to?

I'm not very familiar with history but I think the only democratic socialist countries in a strict sense are the Eastern European countries (ie Denmark). Also, I think you're confounding quite a bit different political systems/styles of governance/schools of thought (democratic socialism with communism/socialism ).

Again, just like some view Trump as a symptoms to issues among rural communities, I think Bernie Sanders' positions and sharp popularity among certain demographics should be an indicator that something is going on among these groups that's resulting in staunch support of a candidate with highly polarized/radical views from our current norms.

The democratic socialists will still shoot you if you don’t give your stuff. They still suck

 

[Gyuji]

Suggesting 19th century ideas is ridiculous and insane.

 

[Gyuji]

There has never been a more murderous force that collectivization. Twice as many people were killed by socialist governments in the 20th century than military and civilian deaths in both world war 1 and 2. Let that sink in. Governments killed citizens more than the two most massive wars the world has ever seen

There has never been a system which has brought more people out of poverty than capitalism... It is the solitary driver in the reduction of worldwide poverty. Instead of seeing that everyone is doing better with the system, the collectivists focus on division between the lowest and highest in society- which is arbitrary since everyone is doing better. It IS a system based upon envy and greed.

Socialism is a terrible system. It is why those who lived in true socialist societies rarely support us going to socialism. Until the collective memory of the horrors of socialism were forgotten by the young of this country, America was diametrically opposed to socialism. Unfortunately the youth are either too stupid to know the history or too egotistical to think that socialism has never been tried... No it has just never been a positive force

An unregulated capitalistic economy is what causes poverty. It's already shown in the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century. Reason why the world shifted to Keynesian economics; providing public services, higher wages, and regulated economy. It's already shown that embedded liberalism, another word for Keynesism or capitalistic-socialism, works soon after WW2.

 

[findoc]

You don't think Venezuela has "democratic" socialism? They in fact elected the leaders that brought about their downfall. And it was all based on a war against the evil rich people.

Look at the batsh** crazy candidates for the democrat party that we have to choose from in this election. "Democratic" socialism lets you choose between the lesser of the various evils for your overlords. Those that run for office are the type that self-select into positions of extreme power----i.e., not exactly the best people.

 

[Dbric36]

Maybe she will bring back witch doctors her being an indian and all.

 

[deleted1011020]

You don't think Venezuela has "democratic" socialism? They in fact elected the leaders that brought about their downfall. And it was all based on a war against the evil rich people.

Look at the batsh** crazy candidates for the democrat party that we have to choose from in this election. "Democratic" socialism lets you choose between the lesser of the various evils for your overlords. Those that run for office are the type that self-select into positions of extreme power----i.e., not exactly the best people.

Venezuela is not in fact a democratic socialist country, its a socialist country. There's a difference. Second part isn't true, please read up on the promises he (Chavez) made during his campaign and the tactics he deployed.

 

[deleted480308]

An unregulated capitalistic economy is what causes poverty. It's already shown in the 19th century and the first half of the 20th century. Reason why the world shifted to Keynesian economics; providing public services, higher wages, and regulated economy. It's already shown that embedded liberalism, another word for Keynesism or capitalistic-socialism, works soon after WW2.

Those time periods have actually not shown that capitalism causes poverty

 

[Nephro critical care]

Medicine needs to stop being a business. Like law enforcement or the fire department it needs to be an essential service and free from profiteering. Doctors should go into medicine with similar intentions as a firefighter i.e public service. No more $400 K medical school loans. Similarly doctors salaries need cut drastically. Every doc gets paid in a 100-150 K range and the reason someone goes into neurosurgery is because he loves the field.
That’s one way to make M4A affordable take money out of healthcare. If you want to make money go to Wall Street don’t come to medicine.

 

[Nephro critical care]

Doctors salaries make up like 8% of the Medicare/Medicaid budget which also lumps in some lab work and imaging as physician services if my interpretation of it is right. They derive the number from 6211, 6214, and 6215 listed here. So even if you eliminated that and payed all doctors $0, you still have huge amounts coming from different facets of the
healthcare system (like the admin portion, seriously ~30% of the budget?

I would propose that in a Medicare4A system all physicians would become employees of the government and paid salaries more in line with what NHS doctors get paid. In return for lower salaries doctors would get lower medical liability that also paid by the government. I would happily accept a lower salary if I knew it would come with peace of mind that I would be not liable if I did not comply with the wishes of a family to keep their demented grandmother on a vent forever.

 

[TAVR4life]

Medicine needs to stop being a business. Like law enforcement or the fire department it needs to be an essential service and free from profiteering. Doctors should go into medicine with similar intentions as a firefighter i.e public service. No more $400 K medical school loans. Similarly doctors salaries need cut drastically. Every doc gets paid in a 100-150 K range and the reason someone goes into neurosurgery is because he loves the field.
That’s one way to make M4A affordable take money out of healthcare. If you want to make money go to Wall Street don’t come to medicine.

None of that is going to change. We will still have by far the highest tuition costs in the world including undergrad and medical school. Our nation has the highest costs for malpractice in the world. Lawyers aren’t going to pass laws that limit their own legal practice against doctors. Administrative paperwork is not going to change at all and neither is Medicare denying reimbursements and requiring prior authorizations—this stuff still exists with Medicare, it’s not going to disappear.

Many doctors including as attendings regularly work 50-70 hours/week (even more when you’re a resident/fellow), double the time that the average person works full time. We also don’t get paid overtime and most don’t get paid for taking call. OB attendings regularly work those hours including taking in house call overnight and then going back to clinic the very next morning regardless of how busy it was overnight. Surgeons and cardiology have similar hours and lifestyles.

PAs and NPs make $110,000-$120,000 for a fraction of the training (can do online degrees, PA is 2 years after undergrad without training they get on the job training while getting paid full salary) and they work significantly less hours/week. There would certainly be a brain drain if our salaries dropped to PA/NP levels that you’re suggesting. Plus there will be a double whammy given much higher tax rates.

In reality what’s going to end up happening is that there will be a redistribution of wealth away from doctors to hospitals/pharma/drug devices. The cost of healthcare will remain high even if the reimbursements for doctors drop to Medicare levels, the burden will still be faced by patients specifically the middle class through increased taxes. And for the record, Medicare still has co-payments and monthly premiums and out of pocket payments—there is a reason why there are private Medicare supplemental insurance (which costs an additional $200+/month) which is what’s going to happen with Medicare 4All, there will be a two tier system with Medicare plus a market for private supplemental insurance. It’s not going to be free.

 

[deleted480308]

I would propose that in a Medicare4A system all physicians would become employees of the government and paid salaries more in line with what NHS doctors get paid. In return for lower salaries doctors would get lower medical liability that also paid by the government. I would happily accept a lower salary if I knew it would come with peace of mind that I would be not liable if I did not comply with the wishes of a family to keep their demented grandmother on a vent forever.

You can go to the VA today. And you can do it while leaving the rest of us alone