Thoughts about Elizabeth Warren's New Health Plan?

[Nephro critical care]

You want a real answer? In that scenario I straight up walk away. I’m not putting myself and everyone I interact with at home at risk for that amount of money.

Anyone who walks away should be treated just the same as a deserter from the army.

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[Nephro critical care]

Yes he should be treated as a deserter. Subject to fines , imprisonment and forfeiture of medical license forever.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I really want whatever it is that you're smoking.

We are not indentured servants. I can't speak for all 50 state but nothing in my state's medical practice act requires me to serve outside of not abandoning my patients, and the threshold for that is pretty darned high.

 

[deleted480308]

Anyone who walks away should be treated just the same as a deserter from the army.

Yes he should be treated as a deserter. Subject to fines , imprisonment and forfeiture of medical license forever.

So jail and loss of career if they don’t tolerate wage drops during a high risk crisis? That’s some 1984 stuff. Why would you assume it is appropriate to force your will on other people like that

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Anyone who walks away should be treated just the same as a deserter from the army.

Yes he should be treated as a deserter. Subject to fines , imprisonment and forfeiture of medical license forever.

Yeah no. You can’t force anyone to do what you want. Just because I have a skill that is in high demand doesn’t mean you get to force me to use it. You would be hailing a hell of a lot of doctors.

It’s telling your response to this is to take away some of the most basic human rights. Very revealing about that moral compass you are continually waiving around in here

 

[Nephro critical care]

So jail and loss of career if they don’t tolerate wage drops during a high risk crisis? That’s some 1984 stuff. Why would you assume it is appropriate to force your will on other people like that

Because in a time of crisis we want everyone to pull their own weight. Because the nation/society is more important than individual rights.
We are one week behind Europe / Israel / Middle East where now they are instituting Wuhan style quarantines. When that happens in the US automatically the economy will go into freefall. Everyone is locked down most people will not have money to pay bills / mortgages beyond a month. Mass bankruptcy will ensue.
I am an intensivist and the going rate for an intensivist is $180-200/hr. I could become a scumbag and say because of my sudden increase in demand and the personal risk I am taking with care of COVID-19 patients I am now charging $500/hr. But i feel that would be immoral , I am still going to take $200/hr and if the health system cant pay I will happily do my job for whatever they can pay fairly. All I ask is that no one else unfairly profits in a time of crisis. I don't believe that is an unreasonable demand.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Because in a time of crisis we want everyone to pull their own weight. Because the nation/society is more important than individual rights.
We are one week behind Europe / Israel / Middle East where now they are instituting Wuhan style quarantines. When that happens in the US automatically the economy will go into freefall. Everyone is locked down most people will not have money to pay bills / mortgages beyond a month. Mass bankruptcy will ensue.
I am an intensivist and the going rate for an intensivist is $180-200/hr. I could become a scumbag and say because of my sudden increase in demand and the personal risk I am taking with care of COVID-19 patients I am now charging $500/hr. But i feel that would be immoral , I am still going to take $200/hr and if the health system cant pay I will happily do my job for whatever they can pay fairly. All I ask is that no one else unfairly profits in a time of crisis. I don't believe that is an unreasonable demand.

Good luck handling that after you’ve jailed and revoked the licenses of all the doctors who decided they weren’t going to comply with your “work for 25/hr or free” strategy.

No one ever said they were going to attempt to hardball hospitals into now paying 1 million this year because their skills were now in such high demand. You said doctors wages should be dropped to 25/hr or nothing.

This is not the military. Coincidentally if you suddenly told the military they now needed to work for free at the start of a war, I am 100% certain you would have exponentially less soldiers for that war.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Because in a time of crisis we want everyone to pull their own weight. Because the nation/society is more important than individual rights.
We are one week behind Europe / Israel / Middle East where now they are instituting Wuhan style quarantines. When that happens in the US automatically the economy will go into freefall. Everyone is locked down most people will not have money to pay bills / mortgages beyond a month. Mass bankruptcy will ensue.
I am an intensivist and the going rate for an intensivist is $180-200/hr. I could become a scumbag and say because of my sudden increase in demand and the personal risk I am taking with care of COVID-19 patients I am now charging $500/hr. But i feel that would be immoral , I am still going to take $200/hr and if the health system cant pay I will happily do my job for whatever they can pay fairly. All I ask is that no one else unfairly profits in a time of crisis. I don't believe that is an unreasonable demand.

That would be why most states have anti-gouging laws that go into effect when a state of emergency is declared.

Also, if the hospital said "we're going to be short of money, can we pay you less now but will promise in writing to make it up when things settle down" I think most of us would be OK with that.

 

[Nephro critical care]

That would be why most states have anti-gouging laws that go into effect when a state of emergency is declared.

Also, if the hospital said "we're going to be short of money, can we pay you less now but will promise in writing to make it up when things settle down" I think most of us would be OK with that.

Yes that would work. As doctors we have to remember that we have more spare cash and means to live without a paycheck longer than most of the general population.

 

[deleted480308]

Because in a time of crisis we want everyone to pull their own weight. Because the nation/society is more important than individual rights.
We are one week behind Europe / Israel / Middle East where now they are instituting Wuhan style quarantines. When that happens in the US automatically the economy will go into freefall. Everyone is locked down most people will not have money to pay bills / mortgages beyond a month. Mass bankruptcy will ensue.
I am an intensivist and the going rate for an intensivist is $180-200/hr. I could become a scumbag and say because of my sudden increase in demand and the personal risk I am taking with care of COVID-19 patients I am now charging $500/hr. But i feel that would be immoral , I am still going to take $200/hr and if the health system cant pay I will happily do my job for whatever they can pay fairly. All I ask is that no one else unfairly profits in a time of crisis. I don't believe that is an unreasonable demand.

You lost me at group need being more important than individual rights

We live in different worlds about how to treat others

 

[findoc]

Because in a time of crisis we want everyone to pull their own weight. Because the nation/society is more important than individual rights.
We are one week behind Europe / Israel / Middle East where now they are instituting Wuhan style quarantines. When that happens in the US automatically the economy will go into freefall. Everyone is locked down most people will not have money to pay bills / mortgages beyond a month. Mass bankruptcy will ensue.
I am an intensivist and the going rate for an intensivist is $180-200/hr. I could become a scumbag and say because of my sudden increase in demand and the personal risk I am taking with care of COVID-19 patients I am now charging $500/hr. But i feel that would be immoral , I am still going to take $200/hr and if the health system cant pay I will happily do my job for whatever they can pay fairly. All I ask is that no one else unfairly profits in a time of crisis. I don't believe that is an unreasonable demand.

This is a health crisis that *hopefully* is a once-in-a-lifetime event. With unprecedented shutdowns and closures, I'm afraid it's turning into an economic crisis as well. Families and businesses that are not prepared, whether too much debt or inadequate emergency cash reserves, may not fare well. We've been in an economic expansion for a decade now, and this will be a reminder of the importance of being prepared.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Because in a time of crisis we want everyone to pull their own weight. Because the nation/society is more important than individual rights.

You don't get to subjugate my rights, especially the most basic - liberty- just because you want something I can do. There is nothing more sinister than this idea... That others get to remove one's freedom because the collective trumps an individual's right. It is a sinister and insidious idea. It underlies the most egregious examples human depravity in the 20th century. You sir are a monster masquerading as a moral person and don't realize it...

I am an intensivist and the going rate for an intensivist is $180-200/hr. I could become a scumbag and say because of my sudden increase in demand and the personal risk I am taking with care of COVID-19 patients I am now charging $500/hr.

You could but the great thing about capitalism is that someone has to consent to pay that. I doubt they will when another will offer their services at a lower cost.

 

[findoc]

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by coronavirus

Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin propose. Some patients denied intensive care will in effect be left to die, doctors fear...

news.yahoo.com

Italians over 80 "will be left to die" as the country is overwhelmed by coronavirus. Thank goodness for government-run healthcare.

 

[FutureInternist]

Italians over 80 'will be left to die' as country overwhelmed by coronavirus

Coronavirus victims in Italy will be denied access to intensive care if they are aged 80 or more or in poor health should pressure on beds increase, a document prepared by a crisis management unit in Turin propose. Some patients denied intensive care will in effect be left to die, doctors fear...

news.yahoo.com

Italians over 80 "will be left to die" as the country is overwhelmed by coronavirus. Thank goodness for government-run healthcare.

Like there aren’t so many already dying for lack of HealthCare under capitalism.
We are lucky (most on this site, if not all), to not be in the category of extreme need but if suddenly the prices rose, our jobs didn’t give health insurance etc, loads of these “My Freedom... Capitalism rocks...Government run healthcare is bad” folks would change their tune.

Unfortunately, for the needy, this is unlikely to happen, and the super rich will keep succeeding in pitting the middle class against the poor.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Like there aren’t so many already dying for lack of HealthCare under capitalism.
We are lucky (most on this site, if not all), to not be in the category of extreme need but if suddenly the prices rose, our jobs didn’t give health insurance etc, loads of these “My Freedom... Capitalism rocks...Government run healthcare is bad” folks would change their tune.

Unfortunately, for the needy, this is unlikely to happen, and the super rich will keep succeeding in pitting the middle class against the poor.

Remind me again which system is capiitalistic.... It certainly isn't ours in the US.

We actually have a hodge-podge of a govt run system with massive bureaucracy, a private system and a system of third party payers.

I always hear this garbage that people are dying in the streets because of lack of health care access. I can't say I have had a patient that couldn't get assistance from our two govt monstrosities who needed it. So Who are those people dying in the streets bc I sure as **** can show you the 80 yo dying in Italy without a ventilator...

 

[FutureInternist]

Remind me again which system is capiitalistic.... It certainly isn't ours in the US.

We actually have a hodge-podge of a govt run system with massive bureaucracy, a private system and a system of third party payers.

I always hear this garbage that people are dying in the streets because of lack of health care access. I can't say I have had a patient that couldn't get assistance from our two govt monstrosities who needed it. So Who are those people dying in the streets bc I sure as **** can show you the 80 yo dying in Italy without a ventilator...

Opioid addicted pts who can’t get help.
Diabetics who either stretch out their insulin or just run out because the prices have sky rocketed. Etc etc.

The bureaucracy for private insurance isn’t much better... when we are forced to fill out endless forms to justify using drug A vs drug B.

I agree that the US isn’t purely capitalist (thankfully)but we definitely need an expansion of the safety nets that help keep people fed, and alive (as the current coronavirus pandemic has shown)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Opioid addicted pts who can’t get help.

Not fatal

Diabetics who either stretch out their insulin or just run out because the prices have sky rocketed. Etc etc.

Walmart has 70/30 for $30/vial.

 

[FutureInternist]

Not fatal


Walmart has 70/30 for $30/vial.

Until they overdose!
Even that may be too expensive for someone working for minimum wage when just a basic apartment can cost the equivalent of 50-60 hours per week worked.

I like the insane attention to detail on these while completely ignoring the fact that more expansive security needs are obviously needed... but since its poor people, its their fault because ofcourse no one who works hard can ever be poor.

At a certain point, long past in this thread, its like arguing with flat earthers, anti-vaxxers and tricke-down econimics-ers, no amount of evidence to the contrary will sway them because its easier to remain in their bubble.

Sad.. but hopefully these mentalities die out quick.. either through education or old age

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Until they overdose!
Even that may be too expensive for someone working for minimum wage when just a basic apartment can cost the equivalent of 50-60 hours per week worked.

I like the insane attention to detail on these while completely ignoring the fact that more expansive security needs are obviously needed... but since its poor people, its their fault because ofcourse no one who works hard can ever be poor.

At a certain point, long past in this thread, its like arguing with flat earthers, anti-vaxxers and tricke-down econimics-ers, no amount of evidence to the contrary will sway them because its easier to remain in their bubble.

Sad.. but hopefully these mentalities die out quick.. either through education or old age

You're making a lot of fairly insulting assumptions there.

First, this has nothing to do with thinking poor people deserve bad things to happen to them and I resent the implication. I owned a cash-only practice for a few years where most of my patients would have been considered the working poor. There are ways to get care that can be affordable to the vast majority of people at a decent price.

Second, you assume that those of us who think this way only do it because we don't know any better. Again, I've worked in that world I suspect more than you have. I'm not unenlightened, I just see different solutions to the problems than you do.

 

[findoc]

At a certain point, long past in this thread, its like arguing with flat earthers, anti-vaxxers and tricke-down econimics-ers, no amount of evidence to the contrary will sway them because its easier to remain in their bubble.

Sad.. but hopefully these mentalities die out quick.. either through education or old age

This is silly. Do you really believe that capitalism has no place in healthcare at all?

If yes, then you stubbornly ignore the mountains of evidence that shows capitalism has lifted billions out of poverty. Capitalism works by fostering ingenuity and creativity and rewarding smart risk-taking.

If no, but you argue that a capitalist system puts poor people at a disadvantage, then why not suggest ideas to provide a safety net for the less fortunate? Certainly that is an area on which we can find common ground.

It's certainly okay to criticize our current healthcare system, but it is by no means a representation of pure capitalism. In fact, the greatest limitations to progress right now is government standing in the way.

 

[deleted927028]

That post wasn't directed at you, it was directed at the poster who is on probation. I have no idea why, I've certainly never reported him for anything (we have disagreed from time to time but he's generally pretty thoughtful in his posts and so I end up learning even when disagreeing).

As for what I'd do, it's pretty simple.

First, remove most care from insurance. Definitely primary care. Insurance shouldn't be used for things that are cheap. Your car insurance doesn't cover oil changes because they're cheap. Primary care can be very cheap as well if done right. When I had my solo practice, my patients paid $50/month for unlimited office visits. That's $600/year for unlimited family medicine care. Same thing with basic imaging. Cash pay radiology can be quite cheap. X-rays including read for $30. Ultrasounds for $100. Same with common labs. Lipid panels ran $7, CBC $5, pap with HPV $40, PSA $12. Removing all of that from insurance will decrease costs by a fair bit.

Second, emphasize primary care. We are a refer-happy system. That leads to duplication of care and extra costs that aren't needed. A good PCP with time to actually do good work can save lots of money, that's been shown time and again.

Third, decrease regulations. The US has way more non-clinical positions per physician than just about anyone else, that adds costs.

Fourth, let us say no. Every doctor has seen cases where care was given that shouldn't have been: feeding tubes for demented 90+ year olds, anything done for anencephalic patients, you get the idea. We spend way too much on futile care.

I can't say that would fix everything, but it would absolutely help.

Personally I like what you have said/proposed. But unless Government limits the prices to those levels you suggested by laws, I don’t expect all doctors, labs and hospitals would cooperate. That’s my gut feeling.

 

[deleted927028]

The govt shouldn’t be deciding my worth, that should be the patient

Let me repeat what I had said a few weeks ago on this thread for context purpose. A friend of mine has a costly PPO insurance. He fell off from a ladder and broke his hand. He went to a reputed hospital in a Metropoliton area for surgery. After the surgery, he received the bill for copays and deductibles. In addition to that, he got a bill of $10,000 from the anesthesiologist and $5000 bill from his nurse. He was shocked and shattered seeing those additional bills. After making a few calls he found that the surgeon didn’t use the anesthesiologist from the hospital but brought his own, probably his friend. The anesthesiologist brought over his own nurse. They both happen to be out of network. Now look at this situation from my friend’s shoes. Why he has to pay $15000 in addition to what he already pays, well over $20000 in premiums, deductibles and copays? What if the bill is for $150000? Why the anesthesiologist and nurse from the hospital were not employed? Even if the out of network anesthesiologist was necessary, is $10000 bill fair? Is it fair for the nurse to charge $5000 for just loading up the syringe with the prescribed medicine? Don’t you think that the patient needs some protection and support here? I am not suggesting here that every doctor is doing this, but I am sure the situation is prevalent. Now without government involvement and well written laws, how are we going to prevent incidents like these? Why we are so afraid of the government? It is something we elect and control. Isn’t it?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Personally I like what you have said/proposed. But unless Government limits the prices to those levels you suggested by laws, I don’t expect all doctors, labs and hospitals would cooperate. That’s my gut feeling.

See here's where you're wrong. Those are literally the exact prices that my patients had access to at my office. The labs were through Quest Diagnostics (they are a national company). The imaging was through a place that has locations in every decent sized city in my state.

Go investigate Direct Primary Care.

Interestingly, my lab/imaging prices were some of the more expensive of all the DPC doctors I knew at the time.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Let me repeat what I had said a few weeks ago on this thread for context purpose. A friend of mine has a costly PPO insurance. He fell off from a ladder and broke his hand. He went to a reputed hospital in a Metropoliton area for surgery. After the surgery, he received the bill for copays and deductibles. In addition to that, he got a bill of $10,000 from the anesthesiologist and $5000 bill from his nurse. He was shocked and shattered seeing those additional bills. After making a few calls he found that the surgeon didn’t use the anesthesiologist from the hospital but brought his own, probably his friend. The anesthesiologist brought over his own nurse. They both happen to be out of network. Now look at this situation from my friend’s shoes. Why he has to pay $15000 in addition to what he already pays, well over $20000 in premiums, deductibles and copays? What if the bill is for $150000? Why the anesthesiologist and nurse from the hospital were not employed? Even if the out of network anesthesiologist was necessary, is $10000 bill fair? Is it fair for the nurse to charge $5000 for just loading up the syringe with the prescribed medicine? Don’t you think that the patient needs some protection and support here? I am not suggesting here that every doctor is doing this, but I am sure the situation is prevalent. Now without government involvement and well written laws, how are we going to prevent incidents like these? Why we are so afraid of the government? It is something we elect and control. Isn’t it?

What you are describing is a known problem (out-of-network billing) and is being looked at. Its more complicated than it appears though. What will happen is that insurance companies will low-ball doctors who only work at hospitals (EM and anesthesia being the main 2) while offering good rates to the hospital itself. Those doctors can either then take the low-ball offer (which is usually very low) or go OON and piss off patients/hospitals like the situation you describe.

Unfortunately this likely is a situation that the government will have to step in to handle.

 

[deleted480308]

Let me repeat what I had said a few weeks ago on this thread for context purpose. A friend of mine has a costly PPO insurance. He fell off from a ladder and broke his hand. He went to a reputed hospital in a Metropoliton area for surgery. After the surgery, he received the bill for copays and deductibles. In addition to that, he got a bill of $10,000 from the anesthesiologist and $5000 bill from his nurse. He was shocked and shattered seeing those additional bills. After making a few calls he found that the surgeon didn’t use the anesthesiologist from the hospital but brought his own, probably his friend. The anesthesiologist brought over his own nurse. They both happen to be out of network. Now look at this situation from my friend’s shoes. Why he has to pay $15000 in addition to what he already pays, well over $20000 in premiums, deductibles and copays? What if the bill is for $150000? Why the anesthesiologist and nurse from the hospital were not employed? Even if the out of network anesthesiologist was necessary, is $10000 bill fair? Is it fair for the nurse to charge $5000 for just loading up the syringe with the prescribed medicine? Don’t you think that the patient needs some protection and support here? I am not suggesting here that every doctor is doing this, but I am sure the situation is prevalent. Now without government involvement and well written laws, how are we going to prevent incidents like these? Why we are so afraid of the government? It is something we elect and control. Isn’t it?

the real answer in this situation, ( a conscious and not emergent patient) would be for the patient to be asking prices up front. The problem with "insurance should cover it" is no one asks these questions so the system doesn't develop a way of having the answers readily available so less people ask so the answers are less available (so on and so forth)

 

[Nephro critical care]

Is the current system of healthcare going to survive the next 3 months ? How will health insurance work in these new field hospitals being set up in NY and other cities ? Will the same medical malpractice caps / standards apply in these strained times ?

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Is the current system of healthcare going to survive the next 3 months ? How will health insurance work in these new field hospitals being set up in NY and other cities ? Will the same medical malpractice caps / standards apply in these strained times ?

NY has already said that malpractice cases won't be brought during this

 

[Nephro critical care]

I believe the way we practice medicine will be fundamentally changed with this outbreak. Some good ways, some bad. There will be major tort reform in the whole USA. MD salaries will though take a major hit and I see a NHS type model coming through.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I believe the way we practice medicine will be fundamentally changed with this outbreak. Some good ways, some bad. There will be major tort reform in the whole USA. MD salaries will though take a major hit and I see a NHS type model coming through.

In order: nah, maybe but I doubt it, and nah.

Its not like the European socialized medicine countries are doing that much better than we are with this.

 

[deleted480308]

I believe the way we practice medicine will be fundamentally changed with this outbreak. Some good ways, some bad. There will be major tort reform in the whole USA. MD salaries will though take a major hit and I see a NHS type model coming through.

This will have nothing to do with long term tort reform

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Its not like the European socialized medicine countries are doing that much better than we are with this.

This. If they were doing so much better than us perhaps I could see some ill placed argument there, but they aren't.

 

[findoc]

If anything, hopefully it will loosen up the regulations strangling the healthcare industry.

For government, I wouldn't mind seeing them have better plan in place for a medical crisis like this.

 

[Nephro critical care]

I am predicting the current capitalistic system in the USA will collapse within the next few months. Most companies will lay off their employees (like Macy is doing). The US government will do multiple stimulus bills which will benefit only the wealthy class. That will lead to massive inflation. Once people won’t have money to pay bills there will be massive social unrest and lead to conditions like which preceded the French Revolution and rise of the Bolsheviks. At that point a person like Bernie Sanders will rise and seize wealth of all the wealthy 1% and then we will have a system similar to the Soviets or China under Mao.

 

[Nephro critical care]

Countries that have managed COVID well are Russia and China with strong totalitarian governments that are easily able to force their dictates onto their citizens.

 

[deleted480308]

Countries that have managed COVID well are Russia and China with strong totalitarian governments that are easily able to force their dictates onto their citizens.

I’m so bad at reading sarcasm....but this is it, right?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I am predicting the current capitalistic system in the USA will collapse within the next few months. Most companies will lay off their employees (like Macy is doing). The US government will do multiple stimulus bills which will benefit only the wealthy class. That will lead to massive inflation. Once people won’t have money to pay bills there will be massive social unrest and lead to conditions like which preceded the French Revolution and rise of the Bolsheviks. At that point a person like Bernie Sanders will rise and seize wealth of all the wealthy 1% and then we will have a system similar to the Soviets or China under Mao.

Lol, nah.

Countries that have managed COVID well are Russia and China with strong totalitarian governments that are easily able to force their dictates onto their citizens.

This is supposed to be a joke right?

 

[Cornfed101]

Countries that have managed COVID well are Russia and China with strong totalitarian governments that are easily able to force their dictates onto their citizens.

The Kremlin sends mixed messages on coronavirus as Russian cases spiral | CNN

Just over a week ago, President Vladimir Putin said Russia had the spread of coronavirus "under control." Now the country is changing tactics, as authorities acknowledge they are gearing up for a major Covid-19 outbreak.

www.cnn.com

 

[Nephro critical care]

Lol, nah.


This is supposed to be a joke right?

China is the nation that has managed to control the virus successfully. That is because they have a strong central government that will go to “any lengths” to get their dictates enforced. If they wanted their whole country to stay indoors without leaving their homes for a month they could do that in an instant. They aren’t bothered with individual rights , freedom of speech , civilian liberties , right to sue etc.
That is how a strong nation deals with real emergencies like these. Nationalize all industries , seize all individual wealth and make everyone work for the government at a wage that the government decides.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

China is the nation that has managed to control the virus successfully. That is because they have a strong central government that will go to “any lengths” to get their dictates enforced. If they wanted their whole country to stay indoors without leaving their homes for a month they could do that in an instant. They aren’t bothered with individual rights , freedom of speech , civilian liberties , right to sue etc.
That is how a strong nation deals with real emergencies like these. Nationalize all industries , seize all individual wealth and make everyone work for the government at a wage that the government decides.

So let me get this straight, you think these are traits we should strive to have in our country?

 

[deleted480308]

China is the nation that has managed to control the virus successfully. That is because they have a strong central government that will go to “any lengths” to get their dictates enforced. If they wanted their whole country to stay indoors without leaving their homes for a month they could do that in an instant. They aren’t bothered with individual rights , freedom of speech , civilian liberties , right to sue etc.
That is how a strong nation deals with real emergencies like these. Nationalize all industries , seize all individual wealth and make everyone work for the government at a wage that the government decides.

Ok, so you’re gonna double down and say any of that is good?

 

[Nephro critical care]

So let me get this straight, you think these are traits we should strive to have in our country?

These are not the traits that USA ‘wants’. But these are the qualities that we ‘need’

 

[deleted480308]

These are not the traits that USA ‘wants’. But these are the qualities that we ‘need’

I’m gonna disagree. Those are not good traits

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

China is the nation that has managed to control the virus successfully. That is because they have a strong central government that will go to “any lengths” to get their dictates enforced. If they wanted their whole country to stay indoors without leaving their homes for a month they could do that in an instant. They aren’t bothered with individual rights , freedom of speech , civilian liberties , right to sue etc.
That is how a strong nation deals with real emergencies like these. Nationalize all industries , seize all individual wealth and make everyone work for the government at a wage that the government decides.

You actually believe that it's controlled in China?

 

[Nephro critical care]

You actually believe that it's controlled in China?

I agree the death toll in China is likely much more than what they have officially shown given the way COVID has behaved in the rest of the world. Bit they at least have a semblance of control and the West is not showing that at present.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

These are not the traits that USA ‘wants’. But these are the qualities that we ‘need’

Not really no.

 

[findoc]

Yea ummm... China patrolled the street with guns, forcibly took people out of their homes, took children away from their families, barricaded the infected in abandoned buildings, and left them to die.

But yeah that's what we need.

 

[deleted927028]

The way all the governors (democratic and republican) beg and shout at Trump demanding for ventilators, medical supplies etc, I am wondering why these capitalists don’t beg the holy private insurance executives for the same? These *****s suddenly start to believe in socialism and want the government to control all aspects of the people’s lives? Why government has to pay for medical bills when the private companies earned in billions all these years? What happened to those billions? After this damn coronavirus pandemic is controlled, if we still stick with this sick profit oriented private healthcare, we would be the stupidest people ever wandered on this earth . I wish this epidemic happened last year, it would have made the gullible people who supposedly love their private insurance give their ears to Bernie .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/30/an-enormous-surge-uninsured-sick-people-is-coming-heres-how-pay-them/

 

[deleted480308]

The way all the governors (democratic and republican) beg and shout at Trump demanding for ventilators, medical supplies etc, I am wondering why these capitalists don’t beg the holy private insurance executives for the same? These *****s suddenly start to believe in socialism and want the government to control all aspects of the people’s lives? Why government has to pay for medical bills when the private companies earned in billions all these years? What happened to those billions? After this damn coronavirus pandemic is controlled, if we still stick with this sick profit oriented private healthcare, we would be the stupidest people ever wandered on this earth . I wish this epidemic happened last year, it would have made the gullible people who supposedly love their private insurance give their ears to Bernie .

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/30/an-enormous-surge-uninsured-sick-people-is-coming-heres-how-pay-them/

govt is why we have artificially restricted the supply of beds and vents....

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

if we still stick with this sick profit oriented private healthcare, we would be the stupidest people ever wandered on this earth .

Good point, I wonder how Italy is faring with their Universal Healthcare system?

 

[deleted927028]

I know it is insensitive of me to say this but I really wonder how many of those millions who got laid off or will get laid off and lose their health insurance, loved their private insurance and didn’t want to lose it in favor of a comprehensive coverage with no deductibles and copying just because it might help some unfortunate citizens. When the virus hits with the people with private insurance, are they going to look for in-network or out of network hospitals and physicians? Because all of them are closing fast. I hope that these people continue to hate the government and refuse to seek their help. This damn virus thousands of times more effective than Bernie in teaching the people a lesson and understand things.