Thoughts on Applying Allopathic Anesthesia with only COMLEX scores

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CirqueDuMed

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Hi everyone!

I was wondering if I could get some feedback. I am a DO medical student who only took the COMLEX and did not take the USMLE. At this point, I do not plan on taking it either. I was wondering if I would have a decent chance at getting an allopathic anesthesia residency in the 2014 match with only a COMLEX score. My Step 1 score is just over a 600, which is traditionally around the 85th percentile.

I know there are some programs that will no longer accept COMLEX only applicants. But I am not sure how competitive COMLEX only applicants are among program that will consider COMLEX only applicants. Do I have a realistic chance of matching somewhere if I were to apply to a large number of program? Are there some DO friendly programs where it doesnt matter that I do not have a USMLE score?

Thanks for the feedback.

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This is not a good strategy at all. I'm not sure why you have no plans to take the USMLE, but you are putting yourself at a significant disadvantage. The DO students I know applying to anesthesia this year took both USMLE I and II, without exception.
 
You'd be at a distinct disadvantage as compared with DOs that have taken the USMLE(s). Would you be able to match 'somewhere'? Possibly. Would that be a good program? Likely not. Why not take the Step 1 and see how you do on that? It will allow you to apply to most anesthesia programs (ofc some don't accept DOs at all so thats a lost cause)
 
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I know a girl from my school who applied with only COMLEX and got some good interviews. No idea what her score was. So it is possible, but I would definitely encourage you to take the USMLE as well. It's a better test and one that I think will open more doors for you. Good luck.
 
I agree with the previous posts. There really isn't a good reason to not take the USMLE as it helps standardize the application process and it is a better exam IMO. My buddy who was in the top 5 of our class only took comlex and he did not get offers from some of the programs that I did. He got a lot of interviews at great programs, but some of the programs specifically questioned him as to why he didn't take the USMLE. Just study UWorld, take some practice exams to get an idea of where you stand then go slaughter the exam. Make sure you ERAS is 100% complete and submitted on the first day the ERAS site opens up for programs to download your app.
 
...yup. I gather that most recruitment heads at allopathic programs are not entirely sure what osteopathic scores mean. They very much prefer seeing a score that is able to be compared to the majority of their applicant pool. I know because I have talked to many on this very matter as a D.O. myself.

Taking the USMLE is a small price to pay, in my mind. It's a more objective test and if you've scored that well on the COMLEX, there's no reason (but your own will) that you can't venture into that percentile range or better on the USMLE.
 
To me it's this simple: If you're applying to allopathic programs, take the allopathic test.

Otherwise, prepare to get a potentially sub-optimal set of interviews AND answer why you didn't bother to take the licensing exam all the other MD's you're competing with took.
 
It can be done without USMLE but make sure your expectations are aligned appropriately, and be prepared to answer why you didn't take it.
 
WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD YOU NOT TAKE THE USMLE IF YOU SCORED A 600+ ON YOUR COMLEX???!! Do you intentionally like making things harder for yourself?? If it's not too late, please listen to the advice from the previous posts and take usmle step 1. Anyone who has done any kind of research on this question can tell you that you are making a HUGE mistake by even considering not taking the usmle.
 
From the past two-three seasons:
those who scored over a 600 on their COMLEX scored an average of 240 on their STEPs. Which, believe it or not, is a competive score.

Just do it, it gives all of us less of a headache trying to compare apples to oranges. A comparison that you can lose out on.;)
 
My best advice is not to believe everything you read on here! Since I doubt many on here have actually been in your shoes they can't give you first hand knowledge. I personally contacted the PD at Uof MI. He told me that with a score of 600+ most programs will consider you with out squabbling over the lack of USMLE score. He told me not to worry about applying without one. I feel like he probably knows what he is talking about. I have talked to several people who have a classmate who matched without a usmle score. I am class of 2014 so no real insider advice yet. It seems to me that with the new GME changes with one governing body it should be less of a problem not more of one. I will be honest I am a poor broke medical student, mom of two, with more loans than I know what to do with and am maxed out on what I can spend on board exams. So unless someone wants to pay for me to take the usmle then its not going to happen! And my family is poor as dirt too so they can't hand over the extra cash. You do what you can with what you have. If I am meant to be in anesthesia then God help me I will match somewhere with the comlex score have!
 
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WHY IN GOD'S NAME WOULD YOU NOT TAKE THE USMLE IF YOU SCORED A 600+ ON YOUR COMLEX???!! Do you intentionally like making things harder for yourself?? If it's not too late, please listen to the advice from the previous posts and take usmle step 1. Anyone who has done any kind of research on this question can tell you that you are making a HUGE mistake by even considering not taking the usmle.

I have to say, I agree here. Likely you would do well, and there's really no benefit to not taking Step 1.

The previous poster says let the chips fall where they may with only a COMLEX score, but I think that's foolish. If you want every chance of getting into an MD residency in anesthesia, take Step 1.
 
My best advice is not to believe everything you read on here! Since I doubt many on here have actually been in your shoes they can't give you first hand knowledge. I personally contacted the PD at Uof MI. He told me that with a score of 600+ most programs will consider you with out squabbling over the lack of USMLE score. He told me not to worry about applying without one. I feel like he probably knows what he is talking about. I have talked to several people who have a classmate who matched without a usmle score. I am class of 2014 so no real insider advice yet. It seems to me that with the new GME changes with one governing body it should be less of a problem not more of one. I will be honest I am a poor broke medical student, mom of two, with more loans than I know what to do with and am maxed out on what I can spend on board exams. So unless someone wants to pay for me to take the usmle then its not going to happen! And my family is poor as dirt too so they can't hand over the extra cash. You do what you can with what you have. If I am meant to be in anesthesia then God help me I will match somewhere with the comlex score have!

All of us in medical school are generally in the same broke financial boat. We all live mainly off of medical school loans (unless you have a rich family), therefore the argument of being "too broke" to pay $560 to take the USMLE really goes out the window here. Yes having children or other circumstances may put an individual in a more difficult situation but the fact of the matter is that plenty of mothers and fathers have come before and managed to afford to take their board exams and PD's know this. Yes I'm sure some students do match with only their comlex but the consensus seems to be that you greatly increase your chances of going somewhere you might actually want to be and at the end of the day that's what this whole process is about.
 
My best advice is not to believe everything you read on here! Since I doubt many on here have actually been in your shoes they can't give you first hand knowledge. I personally contacted the PD at Uof MI. He told me that with a score of 600+ most programs will consider you with out squabbling over the lack of USMLE score. He told me not to worry about applying without one. I feel like he probably knows what he is talking about. I have talked to several people who have a classmate who matched without a usmle score. I am class of 2014 so no real insider advice yet. It seems to me that with the new GME changes with one governing body it should be less of a problem not more of one. I will be honest I am a poor broke medical student, mom of two, with more loans than I know what to do with and am maxed out on what I can spend on board exams. So unless someone wants to pay for me to take the usmle then its not going to happen! And my family is poor as dirt too so they can't hand over the extra cash. You do what you can with what you have. If I am meant to be in anesthesia then God help me I will match somewhere with the comlex score have!

What the U of MI PD thinks of the comlex is somewhat irrelevant. He/she is probably more familiar with it partly because of MI state. The fact remains that most PD's are not familiar with the comlex especially on the coasts. Matching into an ACGME program as a DO can be an uphill battle, don't make it any more difficult for yourself. I know a few DO's who have matched with comlex but the majority of DO's I know took the USMLE. During interviews I had PD's and faculty comment on how they were pleased that i took the USMLE 1-2 and then ask me why some DO's don't take the USMLE. Needless to say, I didn't have a good answer for them.
 
All of us in medical school are generally in the same broke financial boat. We all live mainly off of medical school loans (unless you have a rich family), therefore the argument of being "too broke" to pay $560 to take the USMLE really goes out the window here. Yes having children or other circumstances may put an individual in a more difficult situation but the fact of the matter is that plenty of mothers and fathers have come before and managed to afford to take their board exams and PD's know this. Yes I'm sure some students do match with only their comlex but the consensus seems to be that you greatly increase your chances of going somewhere you might actually want to be and at the end of the day that's what this whole process is about.

i think the point of all that is the claim of having 600+ on COMLEX is "good enough" to actually forego needing the USMLE. I do recall lots of top programs stating that if you have over a 600 then they do actually consider that in lieu of the USMLE, otherwise they want to see the USMLE. I also know there were programs that went ABOVE the 600 cut-off and were beginning to look only above 650 if you had COMLEX only, which means that 600 aint good enough.

600 is a great score, but as things get more and more competitive with more applicants than spots, that wiggle room is gonna fade more and more. It sucks, but it probably will get to the point where USMLE will be needed, regardless of this ACGME take-over of AOA programs.

Good luck to everyone this year.
 
For the record I was told similar things from Maine Medical Center as well as U of TN. I realize this is not going to be representative of all programs but its not only MI who thinks this way. Also, I understand that we are all broke but if it comes down to not paying rent for the month to pay for an exam that I am not required to take to graduate medical school, well obviously I am going to pay my house payment. I have cut about as many corners as I can financially. I don't expect a pity party or anything but I hope that there are PD's that can understand the financial strain we are all under especially when trying to raise a family while going through medical school. I also understand I am not the first one to do so and I applaud the parents that have been able to pay 1100 for both usmle and comlex step 1. I just know that I can not and I do not expect everyone to be able to do so. I am sure the op has a good reason for choosing "the hard road" without the usmle but I thought they should know that its not impossible to match without one. Oh, also I have heard of DO students interviewing at Cleveland Clinic and being asked why they even bothered taking the usmle because they do not require it and know of few that do require it. So food for thought.......but trust me I am not naive enough to think the journey will be easy by any means but I have accepted the reality of it because this is just the way it is for me. Good luck eveyone!
 
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Hawthorne, I am a DO that applied without a USMLE score this year and U of MI would not even look at my application because I did not have a USMLE score. I don't know where you are getting your info... For the record I got 15 interviews without a USMLE score. Most of those interviews were in "DO friendly" areas like MI, OH, PA etc...
 
Hawthorne, I am a DO that applied without a USMLE score this year and U of MI would not even look at my application because I did not have a USMLE score. I don't know where you are getting your info... For the record I got 15 interviews without a USMLE score. Most of those interviews were in "DO friendly" areas like MI, OH, PA etc...
I'm sorry to hear they didn't consider you. I emailed the PD directly a couple months ago and he said that generally 600+ will get you looked at....specifically that my score was in his opinion good enough that a usmle score was not needed. I'm glad to hear you received the interviews that you did get. not many on here actually talk about there journey applying comlex only and I'd love to know where you match, applied and how you felt it went if you don't mind sharing...? I'm not trying to give false info though, that was honestly what he said.
 
To me it's this simple: If you're applying to allopathic programs, take the allopathic test.

Otherwise, prepare to get a potentially sub-optimal set of interviews AND answer why you didn't bother to take the licensing exam all the other MD's you're competing with took.

This post pretty much sums it up. Yes you will get interviews if your comlex is high ( i.e. 600+), but just be mentally prepared and accepting of the fact that you will receive sub-optimal interviews and have to live with always wondering what programs may have looked at you had you just taken your USMLE. It's an individual thing I guess. Some ppl can live with that better than others.
 
I still don't understand why someone would make it harder on themselves by not taking the USMLE. It's a long exhausting test, but it's only one day.

Interview season is 4 months, and can seem like an eternity when there is a lack of interview offers coming in.
 
Applied as a DO with a decent USMLE and wouldn't have gotten any of the top tier interviews I did without it. Sure you can match and you likely will to a 3rd tier place- seems silly to settle for that just to save $500 bucks and a day long test. Another thing is a 600 on complex isn't an automatic >240 on step 1. Everyone knows how asinine the complex is. Rocking step 1 is harder IMO
 
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Hope this helps...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22331802

RESULTS:

Nineteen osteopathic medical colleges agreed to participate in the survey. Of the 2744 graduating students at those schools, 978 (35.7%) completed the survey. Students in higher quintiles (ie, top 40%) of class rank were more likely to take the USMLE than those in lower quintiles (ie, bottom 40%) (P<.001). The most common reason cited by students for taking the USMLE was to "keep [their] options open" for residencies (233 of 507 respondents [46%]). Of the 474 students who did not take the USMLE, 171 respondents (36.1%) reported experiencing discrimination for not taking the examination. Four hundred seventy of 981 respondents (47.9%) reported finding residency programs that specifically require the USMLE, and 689 of 981 respondents (70.2%) recommended that future students take at least 1 step of the USMLE.

CONCLUSION:

The majority of graduating osteopathic medical students polled in the present study believed that osteopathic medical students should take the USMLE.
 
I hate to tell you what you do not want to hear. As a DO who just applied- and with a mediocre step 1 score- 225 usmle, 642 comlex, and 248 step 2 i received about 40 interviews after applying to about 75 programs. I ran into many people from my school on the interview trail and all of them took the usmle. There were 2-3 occasions that I overlapped with people from my school who told me that they were having trouble getting enough interviews. After talking (and letting them know places I had cancelled so they could call those hospitals and get some more interviews) I realized that neither of them had taken the usmle. I really think a mediocre usmle is far better than no score at all. I cannot tell you how well I will do in the match (I am freaking out) and constantly think I am going to get my 15th choice, but if you are talking about receiving enough interviews, I really think taking the usmle is key. Can you match with just the comlex? I am sure it can be done.....but it will be much harder for sure.
 
I hate to tell you what you do not want to hear. As a DO who just applied- and with a mediocre step 1 score- 225 usmle, 642 comlex, and 248 step 2 i received about 40 interviews after applying to about 75 programs. I ran into many people from my school on the interview trail and all of them took the usmle. There were 2-3 occasions that I overlapped with people from my school who told me that they were having trouble getting enough interviews. After talking (and letting them know places I had cancelled so they could call those hospitals and get some more interviews) I realized that neither of them had taken the usmle. I really think a mediocre usmle is far better than no score at all. I cannot tell you how well I will do in the match (I am freaking out) and constantly think I am going to get my 15th choice, but if you are talking about receiving enough interviews, I really think taking the usmle is key. Can you match with just the comlex? I am sure it can be done.....but it will be much harder for sure.

While I agree with all of your points...you have a **** ton of interviews...why are you so worried? NRMP's charting outcomes results pretty much guarantee that you will match given the number of interviews you've gotten/been on/ranked!
 
I am not afraid of not matching. I may sound spoiled but I am worried about WHERE. I do not buy the fact that everyone gets one of their top 3. I am expecting to drop down my list (because i am a DO) and I have many different cities (some I would be happier with than others). So scary.
 
I am not afraid of not matching. I may sound spoiled but I am worried about WHERE. I do not buy the fact that everyone gets one of their top 3. I am expecting to drop down my list (because i am a DO) and I have many different cities (some I would be happier with than others). So scary.

Being a DO isn't as bad as you make it out to be. If you're being interviewed by all these places, they're seriously considering you and DO's in general. If they weren't, they wouldn't expend time and $$ (especially these days) on you.

Don't worry, I'm sure you'll get something good (and desired by you) given what you've already said about how many interviews you were offered.
 
I am not afraid of not matching. I may sound spoiled but I am worried about WHERE. I do not buy the fact that everyone gets one of their top 3. I am expecting to drop down my list (because i am a DO) and I have many different cities (some I would be happier with than others). So scary.

Don't sweat it most of the DO's I know got either their first or second choice. I only know one that when down to their 5th or 6th choice, it just so happens that this person didn't take the USMLE. S/He was a solid candidate too, with a top 5% class rank and high comlex scores, great personality etc.
 
you got 40 interviews?!?!? wow lol now i feel mad inadequate
 
Yes I got 40 interviews, but I applied to a TON of programs. I ended up ranking 18 of them but honestly, don't really want to go to the ones towards the bottom of my list. The other people from my school who had many of the same interviews are great candidates (and we all want the same places) and they cannot take us all. Anyway, thanks for trying to make me feel better.
 
Yes I got 40 interviews, but I applied to a TON of programs. I ended up ranking 18 of them but honestly, don't really want to go to the ones towards the bottom of my list. The other people from my school who had many of the same interviews are great candidates (and we all want the same places) and they cannot take us all. Anyway, thanks for trying to make me feel better.

Wow starr2285 that's pretty rough, only 40 interviews? But the clincher is the fact your complaining about where you may end up rather than just being grateful for basically having a residency spot in anesthesia. Meanwhile, kids like myself, offshore med students with 250s plus on both step 1 and step 2, top of their class, who basically applied to every anesthesia residency program in the United States, are only offered 10 interviews (if they are lucky). Maybe you should be less worried about where you'll end up and just be thankful you'll be matching an allopathic spot that would be better appreciated by someone like myself. Congrats on matching.
 
I hate to tell you what you do not want to hear. As a DO who just applied- and with a mediocre step 1 score- 225 usmle, 642 comlex, and 248 step 2 i received about 40 interviews after applying to about 75 programs. I ran into many people from my school on the interview trail and all of them took the usmle. There were 2-3 occasions that I overlapped with people from my school who told me that they were having trouble getting enough interviews. After talking (and letting them know places I had cancelled so they could call those hospitals and get some more interviews) I realized that neither of them had taken the usmle. I really think a mediocre usmle is far better than no score at all. I cannot tell you how well I will do in the match (I am freaking out) and constantly think I am going to get my 15th choice, but if you are talking about receiving enough interviews, I really think taking the usmle is key. Can you match with just the comlex? I am sure it can be done.....but it will be much harder for sure.

I don't understand this.

I have a 245-250 on Step I, a 255-260 on Step II, and happen to go to a Caribbean school. I applied to almost 100 programs and received only 9 interviews. I have good letters, research, no red flags, etc.

And I'm not alone. I know a handful of people, all with >240s on their Step I and >250s on their Step II who are in the same boat with between 7-13 interviews on ~100 applications each.

How on earth is it possible that you and your friends, as DO applicants, are faring that much better? Neither of our groups are composed of US allopathic grads, and it would stand to reason that's the only real differentiating factor in our applications as independent applicants. It makes little sense to me. Any insight from someone who has actually been a part of the selection process would be welcome.

EDIT: And the above, too, I guess
 
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I don't understand this.

I have a 245-250 on Step I, a 255-260 on Step II, and happen to go to a Caribbean school. I applied to almost 100 programs and received only 9 interviews. I have good letters, research, no red flags, etc.

And I'm not alone. I know a handful of people, all with >240s on their Step I and >250s on their Step II who are in the same boat with between 7-13 interviews on ~100 applications each.

How on earth is it possible that you and your friends, as DO applicants, are faring that much better? Neither of our groups are composed of US allopathic grads, and it would stand to reason that's the only real differentiating factor in our applications as independent applicants. It makes little sense to me. Any insight from someone who has actually been a part of the selection process would be welcome.

EDIT: And the above, too, I guess

I'm really not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand. IMG/FMG's are viewed as inferior applicants by many program directors. It's unfair, and its discriminatory, but that is the reality of the situation. It will be rationalized and justified up the wazoo, but bottom line is...its a bias.

While DO's may get some flak, to a much much larger extent...they are considered AMGs now. Heck, now the AOA and the ACGME are merging. It's a trend that will continue.

There are many good programs and prominent anesthesiologists who don't play into that sort of tribalism out there as well, however, but the field is getting so competitive and programs are getting so many applications that they simply can't get through them all/have to draw the line somewhere.

Did you and the other people who didn't get too many interviews actually reach out to programs via e-mail/phone to ask for interviews? That actually works, no matter what your application status is.

PM me and I'll give you specific examples from friends of mine/people I've met on the IV trail.
 
I'm really not sure why this is so difficult for people to understand. IMG/FMG's are viewed as inferior applicants by many program directors. It's unfair, and its discriminatory, but that is the reality of the situation. It will be rationalized and justified up the wazoo, but bottom line is...its a bias.

While DO's may get some flak, to a much much larger extent...they are considered AMGs now. Heck, now the AOA and the ACGME are merging. It's a trend that will continue.

There are many good programs and prominent anesthesiologists who don't play into that sort of tribalism out there as well, however, but the field is getting so competitive and programs are getting so many applications that they simply can't get through them all/have to draw the line somewhere.

Did you and the other people who didn't get too many interviews actually reach out to programs via e-mail/phone to ask for interviews? That actually works, no matter what your application status is.

PM me and I'll give you specific examples from friends of mine/people I've met on the IV trail.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know with regard to the IMG issue. As I said, both myself and the person I quoted are US citizens who are not receiving an allopathic degree from an American medical school. I was well aware of the necessity to score >20 pts higher than the average American grad on Step I, and did so. What I did not know, however, was that I'd need to score >20 pts higher than DO applicants, too. People who also, for whatever reason, didn't go to a US allopathic school. And that despite doing so, I'd garner 25% of his interviews.

I am well aware of the politics involved, I just find it interesting that "DOs are considered AMGs now", and that the disparity of a DO applicant with a 225 vs a Carib MD with a 245+ is so large. A US allo graduate I would understand and expect, but not this.
 
I don't understand this.

I have a 245-250 on Step I, a 255-260 on Step II, and happen to go to a Caribbean school. I applied to almost 100 programs and received only 9 interviews. I have good letters, research, no red flags, etc.

And I'm not alone. I know a handful of people, all with >240s on their Step I and >250s on their Step II who are in the same boat with between 7-13 interviews on ~100 applications each.

How on earth is it possible that you and your friends, as DO applicants, are faring that much better? Neither of our groups are composed of US allopathic grads, and it would stand to reason that's the only real differentiating factor in our applications as independent applicants. It makes little sense to me. Any insight from someone who has actually been a part of the selection process would be welcome.

EDIT: And the above, too, I guess

YOWZER!

Sorry man, you sound like a great applicant
 
You're not telling me anything I don't already know with regard to the IMG issue. As I said, both myself and the person I quoted are US citizens who are not receiving an allopathic degree from an American medical school. I was well aware of the necessity to score >20 pts higher than the average American grad on Step I, and did so. What I did not know, however, was that I'd need to score >20 pts higher than DO applicants, too. People who also, for whatever reason, didn't go to a US allopathic school. And that despite doing so, I'd garner 25% of his interviews.

I am well aware of the politics involved, I just find it interesting that "DOs are considered AMGs now", and that the disparity of a DO applicant with a 225 vs a Carib MD with a 245+ is so large. A US allo graduate I would understand and expect, but not this.

Yeah, it's a strange country we live in.

Medicine is a huge racket, and residency selection is often a lot like Goodfellas...unless you're 100% AMG, no matter what you do...you'll never be fully considered a "Made Man"
 
You're not telling me anything I don't already know with regard to the IMG issue. As I said, both myself and the person I quoted are US citizens who are not receiving an allopathic degree from an American medical school. I was well aware of the necessity to score >20 pts higher than the average American grad on Step I, and did so. What I did not know, however, was that I'd need to score >20 pts higher than DO applicants, too. People who also, for whatever reason, didn't go to a US allopathic school. And that despite doing so, I'd garner 25% of his interviews.

I am well aware of the politics involved, I just find it interesting that "DOs are considered AMGs now", and that the disparity of a DO applicant with a 225 vs a Carib MD with a 245+ is so large. A US allo graduate I would understand and expect, but not this.

Look on the bright side, you're applying at a great time for IMGs cause it's only gonna get tougher and tougher over the next several years. IMGs applying in 2017 will kill to have 9 interviews in anesthesia (even the ones with >250s). Your numbers are excellent, you will match, and you will do very well at whatever residency you match at. From there, you'll be on equal footing with all the AMGs for fellowships.

For premeds considering DO vs IMG, let CuriousCarib's case be a point of emphasis to go the osteopathic route over the Caribbean route. Is the discrimination fair? No. But as a premed you still have the choice to go DO or IMG, so don't put yourself at an inherent disadvantage from day 1 by going IMG.
 
Look on the bright side, you're applying at a great time for IMGs cause it's only gonna get tougher and tougher over the next several years. IMGs applying in 2017 will kill to have 9 interviews in anesthesia (even the ones with >250s). Your numbers are excellent, you will match, and you will do very well at whatever residency you match at. From there, you'll be on equal footing with all the AMGs for fellowships.

For premeds considering DO vs IMG, let CuriousCarib's case be a point of emphasis to go the osteopathic route over the Caribbean route. Is the discrimination fair? No. But as a premed you still have the choice to go DO or IMG, so don't put yourself at an inherent disadvantage from day 1 by going IMG.

Agree with this wholeheartedly. The landscape has changed completely since I applied in 2008. Unfortunately I couldn't have foreseen these changes to this extent, but I fear for the prospects of those matriculating into Caribbean schools at this point. Their future is grim indeed.

As they say, hindsight is 20/20.
 
Agree with this wholeheartedly. The landscape has changed completely since I applied in 2008. Unfortunately I couldn't have foreseen these changes to this extent, but I fear for the prospects of those matriculating into Caribbean schools at this point. Their future is grim indeed.

As they say, hindsight is 20/20.

I think star is more the exception than the rule. I've been doing research lately into anesthesia, and from what I've seen, with 225-240, a DO applying to 75ish programs usually gets around 10-15 interviews.

While this is still probably better than IMGs, it isnt quite as skewed as star's application.

But yeah, anyone picking carib over DO at this point is crazy.
 
Roughly 150 DO's match allopathic anesthesia each year. Some of the better programs in the country have 3-5 DO's per 15 spots. Many, many anesthesia programs are extremely "DO friendly" and do not see a difference between the two.

Based on my experiences this year, it is absolutely impossible to say that if you apply to 70 programs you will get 40 interviews, or 15 interviews, or 10 interviews. It 100% depends on where you apply. If you apply to programs such as Vandy, UWash, Hopkins, all of California (minus Loma Linda), Cornell, NW, Harvard programs, etc etc. you will get far far fewer interviews with a 230. I know multiple DO's with 250's on Step 1 and Step 2 and did not get interviews at many of those programs. However, with a 230, if you apply to Baystate, UMass, Arkansas, Oklahoma, Buffalo, Texas, Midwest, Florida (i.e. anywhere but the west coast, Boston, and parts of New York), you will likely get interviews at almost all of those programs with a 230. The bottom line is it totally depends on where to apply. I would guess with a 230 you could get interviews at roughly 60 programs if you applied to every single program in the country as a DO. You just have to know where to apply to.
 
I applied very broadly and to many programs. I also have an MPH from an Ivy League school and a bunch of published research. I am not sure if that helped. Quite frankly, the other students from my school who took the usmle and scored decently had no problems getting interviews. It is really arbitrary in my opinion which programs are biased and which are not. For example, Hopkins, wake forest, Washu, u wash and a bunch of others are not DO biased but some small community programs are. Some programs favor DOs over IMGs and vice versa for whatever weird reason that we will never know. Still, even with those interviews, I am pretty sure they will still take a us md over me which is why I am so worried about how far down my rank list I am going to fall.
 
There is some truth to arbitrariness. Some of my peers (I'm at an MD school) got more interviews with similar grades/scores. I asked a couple of secretaries along the interview trail and some said that they got so many applications this year that a lot of them didn't even get looked at.

I had 14 interviews, but maybe would have had more if I called to follow up with some places. Likely some didn't even get to my application. But 14 was almost too much in the way of time and money so it worked out, at least I hope so. Monday will tell.
 
There is also a bunch of inside baseball going on in each program regarding their experiences with IMG schools or DO schools or MD schools for that matter. I'm a californian at an east coast DO program. when I apply to west coast programs, the first thing they see is an osteopathic program that they've probably never heard of in a location that might as well be an astronomical unit away from them. On the east coast, the programs see an osteopathic school that they know, is just down the road from them, and, possibly the PD or chair have some friends or colleagues who trained there. Programs will form affinity groups with one DO program and not another based on the success or failure of individual residents from those med schools. It is the height of non-scientific sampling, but that.s human nature. Sometimes it sucks.
 
There is also a bunch of inside baseball going on in each program regarding their experiences with IMG schools or DO schools or MD schools for that matter. I'm a californian at an east coast DO program. when I apply to west coast programs, the first thing they see is an osteopathic program that they've probably never heard of in a location that might as well be an astronomical unit away from them. On the east coast, the programs see an osteopathic school that they know, is just down the road from them, and, possibly the PD or chair have some friends or colleagues who trained there. Programs will form affinity groups with one DO program and not another based on the success or failure of individual residents from those med schools. It is the height of non-scientific sampling, but that.s human nature. Sometimes it sucks.

Some DO schools have excellent track records. Others have been opened in the last 5 years and have no track record. If there were brand new allopathic schools on every street corner, I would be wary of them as well.
 
Some DO schools have excellent track records. Others have been opened in the last 5 years and have no track record. If there were brand new allopathic schools on every street corner, I would be wary of them as well.
Would you consider MSU COM as one of those reputable schools with a good track record?
 
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