Thoughts on medical school from a graduated med student

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Mbekweni

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I recently spent a lot of time replying to an email from a friend of the family with lots of questions about my experience in medical school, the application process, life balance and more. Rather than just send it out into the ether, I thought I would post my responses here in the hope that some more people could gain a bit of insight into what my experience has been like. I don't intend to be a definitive source on the right way to do things by any means, so take all that I say with a grain of salt. Good luck with this year's application process and feel free to ask any further questions you may have:

1. For the MCAT, are there certain study materials that you recommend over others? How did you study?

The MCAT was one of the most brutal and stressful parts of the pre-med preparation cycle for me. At this point though I'm glad that I had to go through it since the sad reality is that medicine is a field full of continual standardized test that you have to do well on to pass through to the next level. Training for tests and learning how to make it through is important. By far the best advice for the MCAT and all the subsequent tests (Step 1, Step 2 etc) is to do a TON of questions. Study time is always limited, and in the end it doesn't matter what Organic Chemistry textbook has been read in excruciating detail. What matters is the ability to synthesize information and utilize it to answer questions in a specific test format. Knowing how to use the information that needs to be learned and expecting how concepts will be tested is far more important that just knowing a formula. I have a weakness with self motivation, so found it useful to pay for a Princeton Review MCAT prep course where I was forced to sit through a bunch of classroom teaching. I thought that they had some good strategies and did find it helpful, though many of my peers at UCSF got a content book or two and headed straight for the questions. The official AAMC practice tests seemed to be the most accurate in terms of score prediction and content. https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/preparing/85158/orderingpracticetests_mcat.html

The people who did exceptionally well did all of the available tests (8+) with careful attention to why they missed certain questions and trying to identify trends in their weaknesses. In the end, the predicted score should be 3-4 points above what your sister's target score is. They say that the score estimation is accurate +/- 3 points or so, and since there is not much margin for error it is best to play it safe. Ideally, there should be no surprises about how well you'd do on the test when walking in, and even with a bad test day with all the stress you could be satisfied with a bellow (your) average performance. Unfortunately I scored 3 points below my best practice test score, and about average for the 3 practice tests that I took, and wished that I had taken just a bit more time for preparation. That being said, there are a few unifying score trends that I've noticed out of the UCSF class. First, I think it is true that with the exception of a handful of minority applicants everybody had a 30 or above, with a 10 or greater in each section. Scores above 35 were the norm, and that would be my target to have a good chance at a lot of schools, with a 37-38 to be in the top tier of competitive applicants for top schools. Its a scary proposition, but one particular thing makes it easier. A lot of my friends actually scored in the 30-34 range on their first test, and then took it again to get 37-39 scores. When I was applying I thought you had to be perfect on your first try, but what I have seen is that you have to do reasonably well on your first try to prove that you didn't slack off and are generally a good test taker, and then you can take it again for a killer score so that schools can also use that number to have better applicant stats and increase their ranking etc (it's a big game unfortunately).

In summary, maybe try out a content book or two, or perhaps take a course...but doing thousands of prep questions and taking some time to learn the information through questions is what everyone I know says did the trick.

2. How was the process of applying to medical schools for you?

It was stressful overall and far worse than anything in medical school itself. I would have cycles during the process, where after completing an application and writing some great essays I would feel really self confident since I had pumped myself up on paper, but then looking back at the numbers of applicants, my average numbers, schools I didn't hear from etc I would get worried and depressed that I'd never get in. Getting the first acceptance was really a sweet thing, and then having choices between programs I loved was even better. I did unfortunately find that there was a lot of regional bias among medical schools. I grew up in California and did all of my schooling in California and did extremely well with medical schools in California. However, despite a track record of getting into some really competitive schools I only got two interviews outside of CA (Yale and Georgetown) that ended with a rejection and a waitlist respectively. By the rumors, others from outside of CA found it equally difficult to get in here, with similar cycles in the New York area etc. I would still advocate applying broadly, but just don't take some rejections personally as there is absolutely a geographic component beyond the state school requirements so far as I can tell.

Without any claim to knowledge from the inner admissions circle... but after talking with various interviewers, students etc who have been involved with admissions discussions I am really confident about one vital but simple component of the application process. It's important to have the grades and test scores that are competitive with the averages of your goal institutions, but what really makes people stand apart after you meet those basic criteria are really intangible things. Almost all of my peers had some really unique and interesting backgrounds, and had found things that they were incredibly passionate about. Beyond just being a passive volunteer with thousands of hours of "experience", most people took on leadership roles to make some change happen within their communities (or lab etc), with ownership over the outcomes.

The key component that I have seen stand out in applications are people who are passionate about something, and who create an application that clearly shows experience in that subject and how their perspective was formed (rather than having essays full of unsubstantiated soundbites). For example, someone who loves community health and underserved medicine who has worked for a year in a local free clinic, lived abroad doing global health policy for a year, and has written an honors thesis on the subject will be a far more convincing and successful applicant than someone who writes an essay about being "inspired" by a 2 week medical missionary trip to Guatemala where they performed procedures they weren't adequately trained to do, and likely took half the experience to be a tourist while beefing up their application. Others may love bench science and have worked for years in a lab, published several papers, and be legitimate experts in certain techniques that they could bring to an institution where they are applying in the MD/PhD track. Building a resume with direction and substantial experiences is hard, especially with all the work it takes to get through the pre-med curriculum. That is where older applicants have the advantage. Taking a few years off after med school is no longer non-traditional. It's the norm. The average entering age at my med school is 25, or 2-3 years of work experience after college. I would be scared to apply straight out of school, and while many of the MD/PhD students are on the younger side, a scant 10-15%? of my classmates were this young. Taking some time to be sure that medical school is the right path, having some wonderful life experiences doing something you are passionate about, AND being a more successful applicant later sounds like a good plan to me (though surely not the only one). I think a set of numbers get your application into consideration and then fade in importance once you made the first few cuts. Most of my peers seems to be well rounded cool people with above average numbers rather than uni-dimensional people with stellar numbers.

The final step in crafting the application is having a clear sense of where you want to go, and directly connect it to where you've been. Schools don't want students with high numbers who are adrift and have the vague goal of "being a doctor." Talk about what you want to do, and what specific strengths of that institution and general medical training will help you get there. Be on a mission, and a school will jump at the opportunity to help you get there and potentially inspire some of your other classmates along the way. Everyone knows that your interests may change, and that's totally fair and what the educational process is all about. But in general, going full out for a goal and talking about it on an application (even if those goals change) and being an active learner who creates and optimizes their own experiences is a really sexy thing to have in an application and will lead to getting more out of med school in general.

Finally, as you may gather from my opinionated statements above, I really believe that writing strong and emotional essays is a vital part of the application process. If you've done really good work for years this is the final chance to put it all together into a compelling package and make the most of it. Admissions officers read thousands of essays and are easily bored by yet another essay that is more of the same. Being a good writer helps, but really being passionate, driven, and excited while conveying that energy is likely more important (and easier) than being the next Emerson.

3. Throughout medical school, what are some of the ways you cope with all the related stress?

Choosing the right school is a VITAL component of how much stress you will encounter in the first place. Ideally, with a few acceptances in hand, student happiness should be a really important factor in deciding where to go since the basic knowledge learned between one school and other really isn't all that different. Besides location, proximity/access to family and a support structure, weather etc, I think that the grading system (Pass/fail or Honors/Pass/Fail vs other permutations) had a huge impact for my friends both at UCSF and those who went to other institutions. A lot of schools are Pass/Fail for the first two years of classroom work and then introduce an Honors component to the clinical work during the second half. With Pass/Fail you can concentrate on the fun of learning and how confident you feel with the material without worrying about your future career everyday. There will always be the gunners with 200 pages of color coded notes who get a 99 on every exam. The difference in a P/F system is you can do the volunteer project that makes you happy, spend time with friends and family, get a solid grasp of the material so you can feel confident about being a good doctor and take your 85% test score home without your residency application being any different. In fact, I think these P/F schools allow you to broaden your interests, and strengthen your application for the next step (yes, it never seems to stop!) while also making you a happier person. The Honors component of 3rd and 4th year at UCSF (and likely most schools as well) was a whole other business, where the perfectionist came out in everybody and the stress came back to some degree. Daily patient interactions were partially about learning and partially being worried about how a presentation went over and what the residents/attendings think. Serious bummer, and a subjective and rather arbitrary review system that made me doubt myself many times along the way as some people loved me and thought I was god's greatest gift to medicine, while others thought I was distracted/lost/or had a below average grasp of material (sometimes based on just a single question like not knowing the mechanism of disease for a particular patient etc). While I gave heavy preference to the P/F schools, I also thought that those with organ based block curriculum were also much better for lifestyle. Some schools have concurrent classes in biochem, pathology, cardiology etc with lots of individualized tests once a week or more. In this system (like college I admit) there is always studying to do. With organ blocks, the pathology, anatomy etc is all rolled into one area of cardiology, neurology, reproductive system etc. This leads to one (admittedly huge) exam every 3 weeks or so, with a nice break to recover and have a life before its time to start getting back to the books. A few friends at schools with H/P/F and subject curriculum with tests that fell on Mondays, Fridays etc 1-2x per week had a radically different medical school experience from me.

Overall, I would actually say that med school wasn't that stressful. It was hard work for sure, but I thought it was rather well balanced. In the first two years I would take a week off from studying and have a lot of fun, then work in a bit of catch up reading for a week and then do 3-5 hour study days for 5-7 days before the next big test. I panicked and had the most stressful study period of my life with 3 straight months of 10-18 hours of studying 7 days a week in preparation for Step 1 halfway through med school which made MCAT look easy. Then for clinic I found I had at most a month of crazy hours 5am-7:30pm or so 6 days a week (1 off day) with q5 day call staying till 10-11pm. This would then blend in with 2-4 weeks of relaxed 8-5 clinics that followed where I could recuperate before the cycle repeated. Busy and hard, but sustainable for two years for sure with time to de-stress and do lots of fun things so long as you could postpone them occasionaly for a few weeks at most. Do keep in mind that this is "relaxed and fun" coming from me, as I have been pleased to find that I actually enjoyed medicine and taking ownership of a patient's case and the ebb and flow of the hospital even if it took a lot of my day. I also really prioritize balance in my life, and found that med school had WAY more balance that I was expecting. I ended up having the best 4 years of my life and went on more trips (Nicaragua, Mexico x2, Hawaii x4, Miami, Las Vegas, Seattle, LA etc), had more fancy dinners, met my closest friends, and went to more parties and bars than college. I also learned a TON of material and found medical school to be the most tangibly high yield educational experience of my life (college and graduate school MPH included). I was confronted by mortality, pain, suffering, birth/saved life, and put through a grueling schedule and have grown more as a person than I would have thought possible. Medical school has been a joy, and while certainly not easy, it has been balanced and well designed educational experience that I can recommend without hesitation.

Finally, a veteran's note on the Honors system of clerkships that I think holds true for a lot of the subjective evaluations people get in any field. I had a good friend say that when people evaluate you, their scoring is based 80% on how they feel about you and 20% on how well you actually did clinically. I stopped agonizing over a presentation failure, and just started having fun with my supervisors and working for the patients. After this realization my grades went from average to excellent and I was on my way to a really competitive residency application while having a lot more fun in clinics.


4. What are your peers like? Did you get along with them or was it more of an isolated environment?

I was really pleased with my peers at UCSF, and found that I had more in common with them and "fit in" better than I ever had before in my educational time. Throughout high school and college I was awkwardly straddled between varsity athletics and the academic/research groups without full fitting into either. Going through the difficult med school experience together was really unifying and produced an incredible camaraderie. While very different to be sure, I can draw some parallels to what serving 4 years in the military might be like, and spending almost every waking moment with a small group of people undergoing very atypical, challenging and formative experiences. I don't love everyone in my class, but I do respect all of them, and the proportion I clicked with was always a really nice surprise for me. All over the city, imagine you have a group of 150 instant peers to go out with. It's pretty cool. The Pass/Fail system again comes into play here, as people were really collaborative since nothing was on a curve and we were all in it together. H/P/F clinics in years 3-4 brought out an unfortunate edge in a few people but the early socialization of the P/F "happy place" system kept it reasonably in check, perhaps as the fear of broad social retribution kept a few of the most brutal gunners in line to the point where they were playing their own game and going the extra 1000 miles without cutting others down.

5. If possible, can you give an overall brief summary of what medical school has been like for you? For instance, some obstacles you have faced? Rethinking you decision to pursue this field in the first place?

I think I addressed a lot of this above. Overall I'd say I'm really happy about decision to go to medical school and have had a wonderful experience. The combination of academic knowledge, personal growth, and exposure to an amazing peer group that humbles me everyday is something I wouldn't trade for the world. I'm now about to head into Emergency Medicine residency and I can only hope it will be as good of an experience. One of the great things about an MD that comforted me in my decision to start medical school is that even if I burn out for some reason it is a really valuable and transferable degree. It seams really easy to laterally transfer into consulting, pharma, biotech and even unrelated jobs where the societal association of MD with "smart," "trustworthy," "hardworking," "previously successful," combines with a key to the good old boys club of academic elitism for access to upper level positions at many companies. Not all of my peers are going into residency, but all of them have great opportunities and are following their passions. I'm excited about my next steps but am glad to know that I should never really have to worry much about being unemployed even if I don't turn out to be a full time clinician. A few major obstacles that I've faced:

Study habits: College wasn't super hard for me. I got good grades but retrospectively didn't study that hard. I was slapped in the face a bit by medical school. I had to learn to read 500 pages, twice, and make study aides and notecards all in a week in order to keep up and just pass with a shred of my dignity intact (thank god again for the P/F system ;). It takes more diligence than natural intelligence to succeed in medical school (hidden secret), but I was never able to fake it, and really had to learn how to study for the first time in my life. Hard yes, but before freaking out, please refer to my above notes...med school was really fun and the intense study time was also well balanced.

Defining my own success: Most people who make it this far into medicine are perfectionists. Let's face it, I want high scores, and everyone to tell me I'm doing well. Medical school is a really radical shift in the educational process where the faculty to student ratio is something like 8 to 1. Yes, that's 8 faculty to 1 student. We had about 200-300? instructors for our 2 month cardiology block who lead small group sessions, gave a lecture on their particular area of expertise etc. While rotating on clinical teams there will be several residents, sometimes several faculty each week. Everyone will have a different perception of you. Some will love you, others won't be impressed. I spent more time than I should have hung up on a few negative reviews from 1-2 residents who didn't click with me. Given the total volume of people we work with, you can't please everybody. I started to take more of an active role in my own learning and doing what I wanted with each rotation. I tried to do what I was told in general to help the team, but then pushed to see things that interested me as alternatives to other busy work etc. This lead to more positive reviews surprisingly, but distancing myself from trying to please and "do well" with everyone was a big step, since the alternative of obsequious rotations filled with background anxiety was not fun at all. The goal is to turn into an adult learner where you decide what you are weak on, and work to fix it through hands on supervised experience and study until you feel ready. It's a tough view to take sometimes when the system seems to push us into a track filled with numbers (MCAT, Step scores, number of honors, publications etc).

Blood, guts, and general badness: Back in high school I was shadowing an orthopedic surgeon and passed out after seeing a mangled post motorcycle accident leg. I was told "it's ok, not everyone is cut out to be a doctor." The funny thing I found is that almost all of my peers have passed out at some point in medical school, or at least been severely affected by the stuff we see and do. In all, I found that the system is really carefully built to indoctrinate students into a culture of depersonalizing a person's injuries and medical state from their soul/personhood or whatever you believe. As a ship captain once told me on a sailing trip, "Every sailor gets seasick. Some just haven't met the right wave yet." Starting with cadaver lab in anatomy we see and do things that are decidedly unnatural in the world at large, with progressive exposure and responsibility that builds up at your own pace to the point where I think anyone entering medical school could be a orthopedic/trauma surgeon/ emergency doctor etc. Beyond the blood, I had several days where I just felt heavy and sad, coupled with long hours at work, wondering why on earth I was associating my life with all of this stress and pain and suffering. However, it always faded with time as the newness of a traumatic exposure became more distant and I quickly found other positive experiences to balance the negative. People do suffer, others get better. I leaned on my peers and a few key faculty mentors for perspective and found that while I may have felt isolated at first in my sadness or shock at a situation that I was actually really normal and my feelings were shared by others exposed to the same situation. Seasoned residents were also pulled down as a wonderful man succumbed to cancer while his wife melted down and the vent was turned off etc. It sucks. But it also brings the remaining people together in what, again, has been an amazingly close bonding and personal growth experience. I always gain perspective into my own life and values, and have a richer existence as a result of the things I encounter in medicine. And this is just as an observer or a team member with a limited role as a medical student. I'm excited to continue in the process. Progressive responsibility, progressive exposure, teamwork. The system has trained many people before and it seems to work pretty darn well. When I felt the most down and lost I found I really was just about normal and not so isolated after all.

That's it! Hope some of you feel like my thoughts were helpful as you navigate the application process and medical school itself. Best of luck!

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2. How was the process of applying to medical schools for you?

It was stressful overall and far worse than anything in medical school itself. I would have cycles during the process, where after completing an application and writing some great essays I would feel really self confident since I had pumped myself up on paper, but then looking back at the numbers of applicants, my average numbers, schools I didn't hear from etc I would get worried and depressed that I'd never get in

I'm glad to hear this sentiment expressed by somebody who has been through it. Applications are so stressful to me. I'm a reapplicant and when I opened my AMCAS for the first time this cycle, I was all pumped and ready to go. Fifteen minutes later I'm having a nervous breakdown, sitting in a bathtub full of cold water because just OPENING the application made me break out in hot flashes. I don't like applications, but I feel like I can handle difficult coursework once I'm in. Needless to say, I'm not looking forward to the residency match :scared:

The key component that I have seen stand out in applications are people who are passionate about something, and who create an application that clearly shows experience in that subject and how their perspective was formed (rather than having essays full of unsubstantiated soundbites). For example, someone who loves community health and underserved medicine who has worked for a year in a local free clinic, lived abroad doing global health policy for a year, and has written an honors thesis on the subject will be a far more convincing and successful applicant than someone who writes an essay about being "inspired" by a 2 week medical missionary trip to Guatemala where they performed procedures they weren't adequately trained to do, and likely took half the experience to be a tourist while beefing up their application...
The final step in crafting the application is having a clear sense of where you want to go, and directly connect it to where you've been. Schools don't want students with high numbers who are adrift and have the vague goal of "being a doctor." Talk about what you want to do, and what specific strengths of that institution and general medical training will help you get there. Be on a mission, and a school will jump at the opportunity to help you get there and potentially inspire some of your other classmates along the way. Everyone knows that your interests may change, and that's totally fair and what the educational process is all about. But in general, going full out for a goal and talking about it on an application (even if those goals change) and being an active learner who creates and optimizes their own experiences is a really sexy thing to have in an application and will lead to getting more out of med school in general.

Reading this made me so happy, because I just polished off my PS and submitted today, and it was basically an essay showing why I'm committed to mental health, what experiences I've had that led to this, what I've done to substantiate this committment, and where I want to go with it. I was fretting about my PS, but now I feel great!
 
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Best reads in a long time. Thanks! :)
 
Beautiful writing! Thanks for sharing your perspective with us. As a pre-med, I wish we heard more upbeat-yet-pragmatic stories like yours to balance out the one-dimensional gripes on medical school/medical careers that seem to be more common.
 
Thank you for sharing your experiences! I skimmed through it several times and took notes for a reference later on.

1) You mentioned above that as we apply for medical schools, "talk about what you want to do, and what specific strengths of that institution and general medical training will help you get there."

Have you always wanted to do EM? What were the experiences that made you become interested in EM? Or when you say "talk about what you want to do," do you mean a broader goal? If so, what was yours? What were other strengths, besides P/F system and outstanding peers, that you believe will help you reach there?


2) You also mentioned, "I tried to do what I was told in general to help the team, but then pushed to see things that interested me as alternatives to other busy work."

What do you exactly mean by "alternatives to other busy work?" Can you offer examples?


3) You said, "someone who loves community health and underserved medicine who has worked for a year in a local free clinic, lived abroad doing global health policy for a year..."

I fully understand what you meant and where you are coming from, but with all due respect, how does a pre-med with only a year of local clinic experiences have any credentials to do global health policy in a foreign country that he/she has no knowledge about previously? It looks great on paper, but to me personally for some reason, it sounds just as bad as doing procedures that pre-meds are not adequately trained to do abroad. It might be just me, I am not sure... But I understand what message you were trying to convey there.

How about pre-meds whose school curricula are inflexible to let students take a year off or other pre-meds who don't wish to take a year off due to financial concerns? How can they demonstrate their global health passion, for instance, in such constraints?


Thank you again for your post. It was an insightful read.
 
As merely a first year I can whole heartedly agree with everything you have said up to the clinical years. This is an amazing write up, and I feel like it definitely rings true with how I feel and approach school.
 
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Thank you for sharing your experiences! I skimmed through it several times and took notes for a reference later on.

1) You mentioned above that as we apply for medical schools, "talk about what you want to do, and what specific strengths of that institution and general medical training will help you get there."

Have you always wanted to do EM? What were the experiences that made you become interested in EM? Or when you say "talk about what you want to do," do you mean a broader goal? If so, what was yours? What were other strengths, besides P/F system and outstanding peers, that you believe will help you reach there?


2) You also mentioned, "I tried to do what I was told in general to help the team, but then pushed to see things that interested me as alternatives to other busy work."

What do you exactly mean by "alternatives to other busy work?" Can you offer examples?


3) You said, "someone who loves community health and underserved medicine who has worked for a year in a local free clinic, lived abroad doing global health policy for a year..."

I fully understand what you meant and where you are coming from, but with all due respect, how does a pre-med with only a year of local clinic experiences have any credentials to do global health policy in a foreign country that he/she has no knowledge about previously? It looks great on paper, but to me personally for some reason, it sounds just as bad as doing procedures that pre-meds are not adequately trained to do abroad. It might be just me, I am not sure... But I understand what message you were trying to convey there.

How about pre-meds whose school curricula are inflexible to let students take a year off or other pre-meds who don't wish to take a year off due to financial concerns? How can they demonstrate their global health passion, for instance, in such constraints?


Thank you again for your post. It was an insightful read.

Is that a cello in your avatar? AWESOME. :)
 
Wow. What a fantastic and balanced write up. Thanks for taking the time to do it. :thumbup:
 
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Great post! It's always great when former students take the time to share this stuff which we prospects can't really get from anywhere else. I love that sailor quote by the way.
 
This should be sticky'ed. Great post with great insight. Thanks for spending the time!
:thumbup:
 
I ended up having the best 4 years of my life and went on more trips (Nicaragua, Mexico x2, Hawaii x4, Miami, Las Vegas, Seattle, LA etc), had more fancy dinners, met my closest friends, and went to more parties and bars than college. I also learned a TON of material and found medical school to be the most tangibly high yield educational experience of my life (college and graduate school MPH included). I was confronted by mortality, pain, suffering, birth/saved life, and put through a grueling schedule and have grown more as a person than I would have thought possible. Medical school has been a joy, and while certainly not easy, it has been balanced and well designed educational experience that I can recommend without hesitation. /QUOTE]

This was my favorite part. While there are many other points when you offer solid practical advice, your passion really comes out here and this reminded me why I'm excited for med school.
 
This is a great thread that I don't mind making cliff notes for those who might not have time reading all.



TL;DR:

1. For the MCAT:

Do tons of questions. Know how to synthesize and apply the information, expect how those concepts will be tested.

Scores above 35 were the norm in great schools like UCSF. But many people had 30-34 on the first try and then 37-39 on the second try.


2. Applying for med schools:

Don't take rejections personally.

"The key component that I have seen stand out in applications are people who are passionate about something, and who create an application that clearly shows experience in that subject and how their perspective was formed (rather than having essays full of unsubstantiated soundbites)."

Taking a few years off after med school is normal nowadays. Have some life experiences to be a more competitive applicant.

The first step is "having a clear sense of where you want to go, and directly connect it to where you've been...Talk about what you want to do, and what specific strengths of that institution and general medical training will help you get there."

"Be an active learner who creates and optimizes their own experiences."

Writing strong, emotional essays is important.



3. Stress during med school years

Student happiness is one of the most important factors in choosing a right school. P/F system is one of factors leading to student happiness.

Organ-based block curriculum is better for lifestyles than "concurrent classes in biochem, pathology, and cardiology" since organ-based block has exams every 3 weeks or so, instead of every week.

School wasn't that stressful, although it was hard work.

Fun, balanced life: "ended up having more trips, more fancy dinners, met my closest friends, and went to more parties and bars than college."

"I was confronted by mortality, pain, suffering, birth/saved life, and put through a grueling schedule and have grown more as a person than I would have thought possible."

Honors system of clerkships: "their scoring is based 80% on how they feel about you and 20% on how well you actually did clinically. I stopped agonizing over a presentation failure, and just started having fun with my supervisors and working for the patients."



4. Getting along with peers:

"I don't love everyone in my class, but I do respect all of them, and the proportion I clicked with was always a really nice surprise for me."


5. Summary of med schools: Obstacles? Rethinking your decision?

"The combination of academic knowledge, personal growth, and exposure to an amazing peer group that humbles me everyday is something I wouldn't trade for the world."

Study habits: "I had to learn to read 500 pages, twice, and make study aides and notecards all in a week in order to keep up and just pass with a shred of my dignity intact (thank god again for the P/F system ;). It takes more diligence than natural intelligence to succeed in medical school (hidden secret), but I was never able to fake it, and really had to learn how to study for the first time in my life."

Defining my own success: You can't please everyone. "I tried to do what I was told in general to help the team, but then pushed to see things that interested me as alternatives to other busy work etc. This lead to more positive reviews surprisingly, but distancing myself from trying to please and "do well" with everyone was a big step, since the alternative of obsequious rotations filled with background anxiety was not fun at all."

Be "an adult learner where you decide what you are weak on, and work to fix it through hands on supervised experience and study until you feel ready."

Blood, guts, and general badness: As a ship captain once told me on a sailing trip, "Every sailor gets seasick. Some just haven't met the right wave yet."

"Beyond the blood, I had several days where I just felt heavy and sad, coupled with long hours at work, wondering why on earth I was associating my life with all of this stress and pain and suffering. However, it always faded with time as the newness of a traumatic exposure became more distant and I quickly found other positive experiences to balance the negative. People do suffer, others get better. I leaned on my peers and a few key faculty mentors for perspective and found that while I may have felt isolated at first in my sadness or shock at a situation that I was actually really normal and my feelings were shared by others exposed to the same situation. Seasoned residents were also pulled down as a wonderful man succumbed to cancer while his wife melted down and the vent was turned off etc. It sucks. But it also brings the remaining people together in what, again, has been an amazingly close bonding and personal growth experience. I always gain perspective into my own life and values, and have a richer existence as a result of the things I encounter in medicine. And this is just as an observer or a team member with a limited role as a medical student. I'm excited to continue in the process. Progressive responsibility, progressive exposure, teamwork. The system has trained many people before and it seems to work pretty darn well. When I felt the most down and lost I found I really was just about normal and not so isolated after all."



I couldn't summarize the last paragraph. It's worth reading it all.
 
Thanks a lot for sharing this. It is a lovely and informative read :)
 
At first I was daunted by the huge wall of text, but it turned out to be a very easy read. Definitely a good read compared to some of the more cynical stuff out there!
 
I ended up having the best 4 years of my life and went on more trips (Nicaragua, Mexico x2, Hawaii x4, Miami, Las Vegas, Seattle, LA etc), had more fancy dinners, met my closest friends, and went to more parties and bars than college. I also learned a TON of material and found medical school to be the most tangibly high yield educational experience of my life (college and graduate school MPH included). I was confronted by mortality, pain, suffering, birth/saved life, and put through a grueling schedule and have grown more as a person than I would have thought possible. Medical school has been a joy, and while certainly not easy, it has been balanced and well designed educational experience that I can recommend without hesitation. /QUOTE]

This was my favorite part. While there are many other points when you offer solid practical advice, your passion really comes out here and this reminded me why I'm excited for med school.

+1 to this

It's a welcome change to hear someone say that they actually enjoyed med school. Usually all you hear about it is how hard and soul-crushing it is. I hope I come out 4 years from now feeling similarly to you OP!
 
This is great advice. I passed it along to my cousin who is starting college this fall. I wish I'd have known all of this stuff before I started...I'd probably be a doctor now and not an applicant.

The one part I'd push back against is the notion (common on SDN) that competitive applicants need to (or even have the ability to) assemble a coherent, goal-driven resume starting when they're 18. If you're a precocious, financially well-resourced Harvard College stud, then yeah, maybe you can call your own shots and basically do whatever activities you want, when you want, and where you want. Not so for the rest of the undergraduate population.

Some people go into college knowing for certain that they want to do neuroscience research with Dr. Mickelson at the XXX Institute of Biomedical Research, so they create a plan to get into that guy's lab and execute it. The majority have no clue what they want to do with their spare time, so they end up shotgunning the basic science departments at their university, getting one reply, and running gels in some crappy lab in the biology department at State U. Then they work at Wendy's for a summer, take a 4 week trip to Honduras, and volunteer as a YMCA camp counselor. A gunner might say their resume "lacks direction and focus" but they should not be discounted as non-competitive medical school applicants; plenty of them will get accepted and make fine doctors. Maybe not HarvardYaleJHU, but they'll still learn medicine and they'll become doctors.

The fact is that for the majority of college kids, your research opportunities, internship opportunities, and, to a large extent, your goals, are shaped by chance and availability more than perfect execution of a pre-determined plan of attack.

This is true beyond medical school as well. I would hazard a guess that most academic researchers discover their niche more by chance than conviction and goal-setting. You go to graduate school, click with a certain PI, and follow her footsteps to study the sleep behavior of jelly fish from the Indian Ocean. If that school had rejected you, you might be studying the sleep behaviour of rats from South Africa.
 
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OP - thank you so much such an informative and passionate post! I hope I can retain the same amount of optimism and energy you have
 
...
 
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Admittedly, I just skimmed this...

Like most attempts to impart truisms to applicants/students it falls alarmingly short, and is very misleading. If I had followed your generalizations - well lets just say I'm dang glad I didn't.

But I was struck by two things in particular:
(1) you had three months to study for STEP 1 @ 10-18 hrs per day, 7 days a week??? wow.

(2) ...med school was really fun and the intense study time was also well balanced. Did you bump your head - hard - in med school?

Lots of other chuckles sprinkled throughout as well. This may have been well intentioned but you got carried away. And when did EM get a really competitive residency program?

It's really unnecessary to quote the entire post...

Are you asking when EM became a very competitive specialty? It's competitiveness has increased substantially within the past few years to the point where strong applicants go unmatched - I think there were 0 open positions in the scramble/SOAP in the past two years (compared to dozens in anesthesia and radiology).
 
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Very, really, whatever. That's not the point of this thread so I'll avoid going off topic further, though I think the most recent match data communicate otherwise (;)).

OP - I did enjoy reading this post :thumbup:.
 
Wow this is long, haha. Haven't finished it yet actually but just wanted to say thanks for taking the time to write this out! Much appreciated.
 
Sorry for the slow reply and thanks everyone for their comments. I started residency last week and things have been busy.

1) You mentioned above that as we apply for medical schools, "talk about what you want to do, and what specific strengths of that institution and general medical training will help you get there."

Have you always wanted to do EM? What were the experiences that made you become interested in EM? Or when you say "talk about what you want to do," do you mean a broader goal? If so, what was yours? What were other strengths, besides P/F system and outstanding peers, that you believe will help you reach there?

-- I did a big circle, starting with an interest in EM as early as high school. Through college and grad school MPH I was unsure if I even wanted to do medicine. Then, at various times during medical school I considered Internal Medicine, OBGYN, and Surgery in addition to EM. In all I really like the diversity of patients, the urgency/fast paced nature of the work, and the fact that when you are done you are done. It's also a WONDERFUL social network and "family" of residents and faculty. A supportive network doing interesting things is very exciting for me as I move forward.

2) You also mentioned, "I tried to do what I was told in general to help the team, but then pushed to see things that interested me as alternatives to other busy work."

What do you exactly mean by "alternatives to other busy work?" Can you offer examples?

- Busy work might include "hey, can you check and see if this patient has received their MRI" which in our county hospital can take a trip down 5 floors and an in person talk with the MRI tech. Also pre-filling in lab values for rounding sheets, updating current meds for sing-out sheets etc. Some of this is necessary to be a team player since someone has to do it. But making sure you aren't the only one and have time to do other things that are valuable. I enjoyed advocating to watching and maybe assist with proceedures for patients on our service that I wasn't following myself. I really enjoyed following up with patient's in the afternoon after notes and orders were in for a second chat. Even just studying for the shelf or Step 2 was high yield as well.

3) You said, "someone who loves community health and underserved medicine who has worked for a year in a local free clinic, lived abroad doing global health policy for a year..."

I fully understand what you meant and where you are coming from, but with all due respect, how does a pre-med with only a year of local clinic experiences have any credentials to do global health policy in a foreign country that he/she has no knowledge about previously? It looks great on paper, but to me personally for some reason, it sounds just as bad as doing procedures that pre-meds are not adequately trained to do abroad. It might be just me, I am not sure... But I understand what message you were trying to convey there.

-- Totally right. I think that people have to do what is appropriate for their level of training. A pre-med might not be ready to place central lines in a developing world clinic. But I do like preventive medicine, epi, and policy work as related fields that have a lower barrier to entry but are still health related and can have a huge population impact. A person just getting into these fields would likely need to work under supervision with an internship program, an academic research program or similar and then develop a smaller sub-project within a supervisory group's broader scope. That has been my personal experience- but I think your caution is well warranted.

How about pre-meds whose school curricula are inflexible to let students take a year off or other pre-meds who don't wish to take a year off due to financial concerns? How can they demonstrate their global health passion, for instance, in such constraints?

-- A semester/quarter abroad in a formal global health program is possible. I did undergrad at Stanford and they have a really great Global health focused quarter in Cape Town. That launched me into the MPH and additional time off because I felt I needed it- but even that single quarter would have been valuable on its own. I also think that a single year off isn't the end of the world financially if you think through your options very carefully. Some programs like Peace Corps have formal arrangements with Dept of Ed to defer your loans, and I think continue to subsidize loan interest where applicable. If the average student int he US has about 25-30k of loans, one additional year of capitalization for research, self exploration would probably be a drop in the bucket, especially compared to the 60k per year additional loans of medical school. Finances of this process are a whole other subject though.
 
This is great advice. I passed it along to my cousin who is starting college this fall. I wish I'd have known all of this stuff before I started...I'd probably be a doctor now and not an applicant.

The one part I'd push back against is the notion (common on SDN) that competitive applicants need to (or even have the ability to) assemble a coherent, goal-driven resume starting when they're 18. If you're a precocious, financially well-resourced Harvard College stud, then yeah, maybe you can call your own shots and basically do whatever activities you want, when you want, and where you want. Not so for the rest of the undergraduate population.

Some people go into college knowing for certain that they want to do neuroscience research with Dr. Mickelson at the XXX Institute of Biomedical Research, so they create a plan to get into that guy's lab and execute it. The majority have no clue what they want to do with their spare time, so they end up shotgunning the basic science departments at their university, getting one reply, and running gels in some crappy lab in the biology department at State U. Then they work at Wendy's for a summer, take a 4 week trip to Honduras, and volunteer as a YMCA camp counselor. A gunner might say their resume "lacks direction and focus" but they should not be discounted as non-competitive medical school applicants; plenty of them will get accepted and make fine doctors. Maybe not HarvardYaleJHU, but they'll still learn medicine and they'll become doctors.

The fact is that for the majority of college kids, your research opportunities, internship opportunities, and, to a large extent, your goals, are shaped by chance and availability more than perfect execution of a pre-determined plan of attack.

This is true beyond medical school as well. I would hazard a guess that most academic researchers discover their niche more by chance than conviction and goal-setting. You go to graduate school, click with a certain PI, and follow her footsteps to study the sleep behavior of jelly fish from the Indian Ocean. If that school had rejected you, you might be studying the sleep behaviour of rats from South Africa.

I absolutely agree that some people have an easier time making a plan and getting from Point A to B without "running gels at State U." One of my classmates founded an NGO with a 100k grant from his parents in college. He actually does great work, but that's a head start that not many people have. On the other hand, I do think that we all have a reason why we end(ed) up at the doorstep of medical school applications. One experience lead to another and was learned from (positive or negative) leading to a final decision. Tracing that path in a coherent way and expressing a passion in an application still seems possible to me. Working at Wendy's for a while could be a really grounding experience not many applicants have, and owning it and talking about the dichotomy of american experiences, minimum wage vs the academic ivory tower could be awesome. I don't know how on earth I ended up where I am, and it wasn't a solid plan that I executed from the start by any means. It does seem to be just a sum of influential experiences that I interpreted in a certain way and lead me down yet another random path.
 
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Admittedly, I just skimmed this...

Like most attempts to impart truisms to applicants/students it falls alarmingly short, and is very misleading. If I had followed your generalizations - well lets just say I'm dang glad I didn't.

But I was struck by two things in particular:
(1) you had three months to study for STEP 1 @ 10-18 hrs per day, 7 days a week??? wow.

(2) ...med school was really fun and the intense study time was also well balanced. Did you bump your head - hard - in med school?

Lots of other chuckles sprinkled throughout as well. This may have been well intentioned but you got carried away. And when did EM get a really competitive residency program?

Ouch...but to each their own. Sorry if I got carried away. You're right about Step 1. I had about 25 days or so totally off to study. The other 2 months were indeed 10-18 hour days, but involved the standard MS2 classroom curriculum with afternoon/evening studying + weekends for Step 1.

And yes, my medical school experience was well balanced. I'd absolutely stand by that. I also know many other people where that wasn't the case. Partially due to personal choice, also inevitably due to differences in curriculum that various schools have.

I'll stay out of the "is EM a competitive residency" debate. Honestly I don't care. I'm where I want to be, doing what I want to do, and will hopefully have a job I love in the future. I'll never know how well I would have done applying to ortho/rads/derm etc. There was a lot of competition to get into college, grad school, med school, residency etc and I'm hoping to just chill out away from competition for a bit and get into learning medicine for a while.
 
I don't think there is a general understanding that it's very competitive. And that wasn't the point of my post.

Ok, now opening can of worms...

Since you asked, I think EM is increasing positions at a rate of 6% per year and there are more positions offered than US Seniors if my memory serves me - even with self-selecting applicants, it's still middle of the pack.

Ehh, my rule of thumb is that it's a very competitive specialty if you want to get into it and, after sober review of your application, you think there is a good chance you might not get the ticket.

Not taking away ANYTHING from the specialty, just questioning why the modifier "really" or as you've added "very" needs to be tossed in?

I'll stay out of the can of worms with a slight qualifier....

I was actually reassured and happy that the averages for EM were indeed middle of the road in terms of competitiveness. However, I think that with EM and any other specialty (Internal Medicine comes to mind first) it can be much easier to just get a spot somewhere, but if you have your heart set on a particular institution or two then the competition can get pretty fierce (think of IM at a rural middle america training program vs BWH/MGH/UCSF etc). All of a sudden your step scores need to go from 210 to 240/250 with AOA, multiple publications and stellar recommendations. Thank god EM wasn't quite that bad, but it did escalate far beyond the national averages towards the coasts and bigger name schools and made me feel qualitatively like it was really competitive.
 
Thank you for the great insight! You mentioned that not all of your classmates are going into residencies. For medical school graduates who end up in industry (pharma, biotech, etc), they can enter these fields just fine without a residency/board certification?

Thanks again!
 
Wow, great post!

I find this section of yours to be a true gem. Can you elaborate more on how you are able to have more fun with your supervisors and build rapport with them? Do you hang out with them after the clerkship or go out for a drink at the pub, tell stories, etc...? Thank you so much for your write up

"Finally, a veteran's note on the Honors system of clerkships that I think holds true for a lot of the subjective evaluations people get in any field. I had a good friend say that when people evaluate you, their scoring is based 80% on how they feel about you and 20% on how well you actually did clinically. I stopped agonizing over a presentation failure, and just started having fun with my supervisors and working for the patients. After this realization my grades went from average to excellent and I was on my way to a really competitive residency application while having a lot more fun in clinics. "
 
wonderful post, OP! Thank you so much for sharing your experience!

This is great advice. I passed it along to my cousin who is starting college this fall. I wish I'd have known all of this stuff before I started...I'd probably be a doctor now and not an applicant.

The one part I'd push back against is the notion (common on SDN) that competitive applicants need to (or even have the ability to) assemble a coherent, goal-driven resume starting when they're 18. If you're a precocious, financially well-resourced Harvard College stud, then yeah, maybe you can call your own shots and basically do whatever activities you want, when you want, and where you want. Not so for the rest of the undergraduate population.

Some people go into college knowing for certain that they want to do neuroscience research with Dr. Mickelson at the XXX Institute of Biomedical Research, so they create a plan to get into that guy's lab and execute it. The majority have no clue what they want to do with their spare time, so they end up shotgunning the basic science departments at their university, getting one reply, and running gels in some crappy lab in the biology department at State U. Then they work at Wendy's for a summer, take a 4 week trip to Honduras, and volunteer as a YMCA camp counselor. A gunner might say their resume "lacks direction and focus" but they should not be discounted as non-competitive medical school applicants; plenty of them will get accepted and make fine doctors. Maybe not HarvardYaleJHU, but they'll still learn medicine and they'll become doctors.

The fact is that for the majority of college kids, your research opportunities, internship opportunities, and, to a large extent, your goals, are shaped by chance and availability more than perfect execution of a pre-determined plan of attack.

This is true beyond medical school as well. I would hazard a guess that most academic researchers discover their niche more by chance than conviction and goal-setting. You go to graduate school, click with a certain PI, and follow her footsteps to study the sleep behavior of jelly fish from the Indian Ocean. If that school had rejected you, you might be studying the sleep behaviour of rats from South Africa.

I know this is old, but I really want to address this. This is true; many people will get into med school without a cohesive application and make great doctors. That said, I don't think you need a clear focus coming in or to be a "a precocious, financially well-resourced Harvard College stud" to create a cohesive application. I also think that thinking beyond just medical school admissions is really important here. So many students do everything they can to get into medical school, but a lot of them don't think about the beyond. I think that to feel fulfilled through your career, you should be asking yourself what you want to be doing in life, how you fit into this world, how you can make your life meaningful. You should constantly be questioning what you are doing and what you want to be doing. Many people come in with the vague idea in college that they're interested in becoming physicians. The key is defining vagueness in your life. you don't need to be precocious to create a cohesive application; an application doesn't have to be "cohesive" in the traditional sense to be a good one. It just has to show that you've put thought into your experiences. That you understand the notion that experiences have opportunity costs and that you're choosing deliberately, selecting those that are the result of some self-reflection. This also comes from an ability to truly learn about your world view and your place in the world from experiences rather than just going through a bunch of them blindly. You know what can help with that? A mentor.

I seriously suggest that every undergrad go out and find a mentor that is passionate about their work (whether a professor or a professional and many professors mentor multiple students.) Talk to them about the things that interest you in your classes, even if you can only speak vaguely. They will "recognize" what you're talking about and can direct you to work/research opportunities that fit you. These will help you discover what you're interested in and passionate about. And when you become passionate and entrenched in something, when you discover your place in the world, your trajectory, it is the most fulfilling thing in the world. I think everyone should strive to live a life where they feel in control of their future career, rather than just being passive and let opportunity and chance push them along. To me, that's the recipe for happiness. Applications be damned. I don't know if this is true or not, but if I were an adcom, I would find that really attractive in a student.
 
I've been getting a round of questions from friends of friends again, applying to medical school this upcoming cycle. As I finish up my intern year and am now paying back loans I wanted to add one additional thought.

Med School Costs: Pay close attention to costs. I went to a state school so it's on the cheap end of really expensive, all things considered. I'm a few months into loan repayment and all that stuff that nobody talks about is looming large. 400k+ in loans among some of my peers is crippling and new med students will face even higher burdens in some cases. This is influencing all aspects of their lives from where to work, how much to work, getting married or not, traveling, living abroad and so much more. Watch your loans, write a ton of essays for grants and read every email that goes out to the student body with opportunities. Overall, just take an active role in at least making an educated decision about your financial future. I found that my med school was incredibly generous with financial aid in my case, increasing each year I was in school with extra grants so that I am actually in a pretty good situation. But if I would probably not go to medical school if I had to go to Tufts, USC or similar privates that are notorious for high tuition and limited grants, especially with public service loan forgiveness a big question mark for the future, and quite likely going away in your case for all those graduating after summer 2015 based on current proposals. There is a fair amount of "incest" within Top 10 medical programs when it comes to residency, with about 75% of my Emergency Medicine residency getting filled from other top 10 medical schools so that's something to think about if you want to stay in academia- but the whole prestige game goes away if you just want to be good at medicine and get a quality job at the end of the day.
 
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