Thoughts on Oxford PhD before MD...in career planning crisis

[allie2274]

Hi everyone,

I am a current 4th year premed student at Duke. I have always planned on pursuing an MD/PhD but after a fruitful research abroad experience last year I have been offered a (funded) 3-year PhD spot in a lab at Oxford.

In terms of my background, I have a 3.99cGPA, 3.97 sGPA, substantial clinical/volunteer hours, 522 practice MCAT (waiting to take the real deal when I know what I am doing after graduation as I do not want my score to expire). 4 pubs (all upper mid author, 1 JAMA internal med paper, 1 nature methods paper).

Now, I have been told by my advisors that most people take 2 gap years before applying MD/PhD anyways (so theoretically, I would be 2/3 done with the PhD by this time), but I am worried that if I take the PhD, then apply to medical school, med schools may wonder why I chose to do the PhD first...(valid concern, but my research is very tied in with the clinic/inflammatory breast cancer).

I loved my time at Oxford (and England broadly), and I think I would enjoy diving further into my research with a PhD. Plus I would love to live abroad again (I actually met my boyfriend at Oxford and he is based in the UK)... But am I giving up the prospect of a funded MD/PhD down the line? I am classified as underprivileged and could only afford Duke on a 100% scholarship (grew up food insecure, moving around due to loss of house) - so the idea of taking med school loans down the line is kind of paralyzing. Also, what if I can't keep up clinical hours as England has a completely different healthcare system? Will med schools look down upon my decision?

Thanks a bunch.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[deleted1065184]

Would very highly recommend you look into this ASAP: MD/PhD Partnership Training Program | National Institutes of Health Oxford-Cambridge Scholars Program

 

[deleted1065184]

I think the MD/PhD OxCam program is exactly what you need. And given what you've listed, I think you'd be very competitive for it.

 

[deleted1065184]

I am a bit curious about why you listed 518 in a prior post but 522 practice here. Did you retake a 518?

 

[allie2274]

I am a bit curious about why you listed 518 in a prior post but 522 practice here. Did you retake a 518?

Yes I did, was told by my advisors 520+ for MD/PhD.

 

[deleted1065184]

That isn't good advice imo, but 520+ certainly doesn't hurt

 

[deleted1065184]

Either way, OxCam. Look into it.

 

[voxveritatisetlucis]

A few people at the Ivy I went to did this. But, they all wanted to pursue academia after med school and didn’t have to worry about money (trust and or family money)

They all ended up at top tier med schools but I’m sure they could’ve without the PhD

 

[Mr.Smile12]

I agree do the PhD stint at Oxford. Check if the time you spent could be counted towards the NIH OxCam program.

By the way, you should talk to the Physician Scientists forum. I think your MCAT is actually suitable for MSTP based on the stats shared there, so I don't think you need to retake... but ask them WAMC. That said, you may want to retake after you're done with your Ph.D. if you do Oxford. I know the old rule of thumb I had learned was 520+ for MD/PhD was the threshold, but the new numbers apparently say 516+ is desirable. (Check with that forum though.)

 

[allie2274]

Either way, OxCam. Look into it.

Thank you so much for your advice. I emailed and you can apply to start with a PhD, and then they fund medical school after. Thank you so much. This would be great if it works out.

 

[deleted1065184]

Ironically, at the most competitive medical schools, MD/PhD applicants commonly have lower MCAT scores than the MD-only applicants because MSTPs value research experience so much. 516+ can definitely make you competitive for any MSTP if your research experience (and overally app) is strong enough.

518/3.99, low income, and great research experience? I definitely think it's worth OP applying for OxCam and MSTPs now.

 

[deleted1065184]

Thank you so much for your advice. I emailed and you can apply to start with a PhD, and then they fund medical school after. Thank you so much. This would be great if it works out.

Yep! There are 3 paths. The important part is trying to start out as part of the program so that the medical school part will have guaranteed funding. You honestly sound like the perfect candidate for it. I know a couple of people who've done it and they loved it.

Would urge you to consider that doing the entire PhD first would mean a pretty big gap from research during med school and residency...could make it difficult to get back in the swing of things if you wanna stay in academia.

 

[allie2274]

That isn't good advice imo, but 520+ certainly

Yep! There are 3 paths. The important part is trying to start out as part of the program so that the medical school part will have guaranteed funding. You honestly sound like the perfect candidate for it. I know a couple of people who've done it and they loved it.

Would urge you to consider that doing the entire PhD first would mean a pretty big gap from research during med school and residency...could make it difficult to get back in the swing of things if you wanna stay in academia.

Yes I agree with you. I have a lot to think about now. I think my mind went straight to the PhD because the advising office told me I would not get in anywhere if I tried applying MD/PhD without at least 2 gap years. I have no family in medicine/science so your insight is really helpful. Will look into just doing MD/PhD potentially with OxCam

 

[deleted1065184]

It's true that many applicants take gap years to become more competitive, but you literally have tons of clinical, volunteering, and research hours with FOUR publications. I'd like to have a talk with your advising office bc they're not giving you good advice lol. My school's MSTP is probably about 50/50 wrt gap year(s) vs fresh outta college.

 

[allseasons]

tbh, if you're on a 100% scholarship for Duke need based, then you likely will have to take out few to no loans for med school. Your application is top tier and you're very likely going to make a T10. As far as I know, all T10s cover full tuition need based, at minimum, with some even doing full COA.

 

[Banco]

No one will look down on you for doing a PhD first.

 

[deleted1065184]

Nobody will look down on OP. In fact, having a PhD going in is highly valued at research-intensive medical schools. The real issue is funding.

Doing the PhD first and separately from the MD means OP has to try to find a way to get the MD funded. Doing them jointly means being able to enter a program in which the funding is guaranteed.

Rn probably doesn't feel like a big deal, but your future self will thank you for taking this into consideration up front and doing a combined and fully-funded MD/PhD program lol

 

[allie2274]

Nobody will look down on OP. In fact, having a PhD going in is highly valued at research-intensive medical schools. The real issue is funding.

Doing the PhD first and separately from the MD means OP has to try to find a way to get the MD funded. Doing them jointly means being able to enter a program in which the funding is guaranteed.

Rn probably doesn't feel like a big deal, but your future self will thank you for taking this into consideration up front and doing a combined and fully-funded MD/PhD program lol

Yes I agree with you. I think I got so discouraged from my advisors tbh I felt like I had 0 chance in an MD/PhD program. Honestly, I would be more than happy to attend any school if it is funded. This is great advice, thank you.

 

[deleted1065184]

Given the stats and research experience you stated in an earlier post, you are already competitive for MSTPs. Nothing is promised, ofc, but you are a strong applicant. And if you do manage to get 520+ on your retake, you'll be even stronger.

To be very clear, you do not NEED a gap year or two to get into an MSTP or other non-MSTP, fully-funded MD/PhD program.. However, gap years are often very helpful to applicants who may be lacking in certain areas upon graduation or simply need more time to get everything together. I don't believe you have any weaknesses in your application based on what I've read, so a well-written application and good interviewing will get you into an MSTP (or more) somewhere next cycle.

I also believe you're competitive for the NIH OxCam program, and should shoot for that given your desire to do your PhD in England. You're gonna be fine. Good luck!