Three MORE months of student loan relief!

[Monsterdaddy]

I've been following the recent coronavirus relief negotiations. I noted the original Republican plan had zilch for student loan relief but that Trump was open to some relief (the original Democrat plan had a whole extra year of student loan relief). When negotiations fell apart and Trump said he would sign executive orders I was really hoping it would include student loan relief and I got my wish!

This is really good news. While there is debate on whether Trump's other executive orders are legal or even beneficial, most experts seem to agree the order on student loans is both, see below. Alternatively, most expect a deal to be hashed out eventually and it's now much more likely that the 3 months of student loan relief will be incorporated or even extended further.

This would make 10 months of waived payments for me (and they all count towards PSLF!)


Breaking down the executive actions Trump signed on coronavirus relief

Student loans
Trump's directive regarding student loans seems to be the one executive action of the four that will deliver the results as the administration said. This is the only area of the four which doesn't need funding from Congress, state governments or the private sector to fully implement.

An additional three months. The memorandum directs the Education Department to extend the student loan relief granted in the CARES Act until the end of the year.
Currently, loan payments are paused and interest is suspended on federally-held student loans until September 30.

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[JustFillIt]

In before everyone comes to call you an idiot for not paying your loans off yet and/or not continuing to pay during the deference!

 

[Momus]

5k savings?

 

[BenJammin]

You are insane if you don't start loading up on principle payments while you can. Don't be a deadbeat and defer or hang your hat on the idea of loan forgiveness.

 

[PharmDBro2017]

You are insane if you don't start loading up on principle payments while you can. Don't be a deadbeat and defer or hang your hat on the idea of loan forgiveness.

Lol. Don't listen to this nonsense.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

First of all, it's not insane to properly use a government program as intended and second, it's offensive to call people deadbeats who do so.

Frankly, working twice as hard right now for less than 40 hours/week in a non-profit hospital during the pandemic certainly feels like public service. (And I am very grateful that I have not been furloughed like other pharmacists in my hospital system).

The additional three months will take me to 87 payments made, 33 to go and I'll be happy to post my forgiveness award then. Might not even care if the next stimulus bill does not extend student loan relief -- based on my lower income estimates for this year my 2021 loan payment is going to drop to under $100/month.

 

[mentos]

I'm so glad I paid off my loans 4 years ago. I still know classmates with 6 figures debt, crazy.

 

[footfairy]

First of all, it's not insane to properly use a government program as intended and second, it's offensive to call people deadbeats who do so.

Frankly, working twice as hard right now for less than 40 hours/week in a non-profit hospital during the pandemic certainly feels like public service. (And I am very grateful that I have not been furloughed like other pharmacists in my hospital system).

The additional three months will take me to 87 payments made, 33 to go and I'll be happy to post my forgiveness award then. Might not even care if the next stimulus bill does not extend student loan relief -- based on my lower income estimates for this year my 2021 loan payment is going to drop to under $100/month.

Your not wrong. If IBR/PSLF exist and it financially makes sense for you, you should use it.

There is definitely some moral hazard to society having higher education being so pricey and subsequently essentially punishing people who pay for it (or rewarding those who don't depending on your outlook).

I have issues with the deferments counting as months paid instead of just extending the length of the pay period. It's already a big boon to have the loan payments deferred interest free for months, I don't really understand the logic of counting those months as completed payments towards the 120/240. I know it's to buy votes in the election, but I don't understand how anyone can see it as being the right thing.

 

[VA77]

I have a feeling that interest on student loans are gone for good

 

[PharmDBro2017]

I know it's to buy votes in the election, but I don't understand how anyone can see it as being the right thing.

This. The way things are going in politics + the pandemic... you never know what may actually happen with forgiveness. Both parties are going to promise it to get votes.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

I have issues with the deferments counting as months paid instead of just extending the length of the pay period. It's already a big boon to have the loan payments deferred interest free for months, I don't really understand the logic of counting those months as completed payments towards the 120/240. I know it's to buy votes in the election, but I don't understand how anyone can see it as being the right thing.

The reasoning is simple. For people on PSLF, the elimination of interest does nothing for them -- who cares if the remaining interest and balance are forgiven. The elimination of the payment would also do nothing for them if they had to make payments later. (Some people, like myself were considering continuing our payments in order to get forgiveness at our original intended date.)

So since the CARES Act was intended to provide relief, the only way for those provisions to help PSLF borrowers was to make them count towards PSLF. After all, if the IBR or PAYE calculator says a zero payment that counts as a payment. But PSLF borrowers still need to meet other requirements and the big one during this recession is of course staying employed on a full time basis at your non-profit/public employer. I'm sure lots of PSLF borrowers are not getting credit due to that.

I am thankfully still employed and should meet the full time requirement even though I lost a huge number of hours. But I won't get a stimulus payment (which as a reminder is still a credit to the 2020 tax return, you may still get one if you lost enough income -- yes you get another bite at the apple) so this to me is my secondary stimulus payment.

 

[Ace41690]

Wait so these months of not paying anything are counting as payments on paye/repaye?! Outstanding

 

[BenJammin]

Absolute insanity. I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can look back on it in 5 years and laugh at how ridiculous you guys are being right now. Pay your debts. You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make principle only payments towards a huge student loan and there is talk about just deferring?! As if PSLF is going to be around forever? My god I cannot believe what I'm reading.

 

[footfairy]

The reasoning is simple. For people on PSLF, the elimination of interest does nothing for them -- who cares if the remaining interest and balance are forgiven. The elimination of the payment would also do nothing for them if they had to make payments later. (Some people, like myself were considering continuing our payments in order to get forgiveness at our original intended date.)

So since the CARES Act was intended to provide relief, the only way for those provisions to help PSLF borrowers was to make them count towards PSLF. After all, if the IBR or PAYE calculator says a zero payment that counts as a payment. But PSLF borrowers still need to meet other requirements and the big one during this recession is of course staying employed on a full time basis at your non-profit/public employer. I'm sure lots of PSLF borrowers are not getting credit due to that.

I am thankfully still employed and should meet the full time requirement even though I lost a huge number of hours. But I won't get a stimulus payment (which as a reminder is still a credit to the 2020 tax return, you may still get one if you lost enough income -- yes you get another bite at the apple) so this to me is my secondary stimulus payment.

I don't really care if this makes me sound all "what about me?!? What about footfairy!?!?" but to count 6 months of no interest accruing zero dollar payments towards loan forgiveness for IBR/PAYE/PSLF is just a slap in the face to everyone that actually paid their tuition or resulting loans.

The programs themselves are already a huge boon to people with large loans. Deferring payments during the pandemic is another huge boon. But that isnt enough and all these months of nonpayment are also counting towards the payment totals? I can get behind the first two points to a degree, but I can't even begin to fathom how anyone can justify that last point.

It seems so totally unrelated to the entire purpose of the stimulus bill. We are trying to bridge the economy until the country reopens by supplementing state level unemployment payments, preventing evictions/foreclosures in the immediate time period, giving payroll loans to businesses, and by......erasing 6+ months of debt payments for select individuals instead of just deferring them and adding them to the end of the payment term? What?

 

[Sine Cura]

LMAO why should this even beneflt PSLF applicants when loan forgiveness isn't taxed?

What a joke. Degenerate as ****

inb4 Gilded Age 2.0

 

[Gombrich12]

Absolute insanity. I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can look back on it in 5 years and laugh at how ridiculous you guys are being right now. Pay your debts. You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make principle only payments towards a huge student loan and there is talk about just deferring?! As if PSLF is going to be around forever? My god I cannot believe what I'm reading.

Be prepared for your head to continually explode over the next 5 years as more and more fiscal stimulus is rolled out by the government. Politcians clearly realize the debt doesn't matter right away and are willing to push money out to the populace. Aggresively paying low interest debt down or holding large amounts of cash beyond what you need in the case of job loss is for suckers. I say this as someone who sacrificed and paid off a large amount of student loans in a few years long ago. Run the numbers on PAYE and you'll see the majority of pharmacy students are coming out ahead having their loans forgiven after 20 years even with the tax bomb.

I'm looking to get a large mortgage in 6 months or so at a very low rate because there will be 4%+ inflation after all of this.

 

[Hedgehog32]

Does the whole not-having-to-make-payments-but-each-month-still-counts-as-a-payment thing only apply to PSLF borrowers, or does it apply to people on PAYE/REPAYE as well?

 

[mentos]

Absolute insanity. I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can look back on it in 5 years and laugh at how ridiculous you guys are being right now. Pay your debts. You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make principle only payments towards a huge student loan and there is talk about just deferring?! As if PSLF is going to be around forever? My god I cannot believe what I'm reading.

Welcome to America the land of the handouts.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

Does the whole not-having-to-make-payments-but-each-month-still-counts-as-a-payment thing only apply to PSLF borrowers, or does it apply to people on PAYE/REPAYE as well?

It applies to 10 yr PSLF and 20/25 yr income based forgiveness as well.

 

[owlegrad]

Isn’t everyone’s getting a handout?

$1500 stimulus check
$600 extra unemployment
PPP for business owners
Don’t have to pay mortgage for 6-12 months
No eviction

The list goes on and on.

But you do end up having to pay your rent/mortgage right? Evictions are deferred but the debt still exists doesn’t it?

 

[owlegrad]

Welcome to America the land of the handouts.

This is funny. In a vacuum I guess it could be considered true. Compared to other developed nations I think you would have a hard time making the case that we get more handouts than other lands.

 

[mentos]

Isn’t everyone’s getting a handout?

$1500 stimulus check
$600 extra unemployment
PPP for business owners
Don’t have to pay mortgage for 6-12 months
No eviction

The list goes on and on.

I don't get any of those, so no not everyone gets handouts.

 

[mentos]

Do you own a house? The government saved the housing market

Freebies for me = bad
Freebies for you = well, that is understandable

Yes I own a house. There's no more mortgage deduction so no handout there. Housing prices in my area were unaffected by the great recession. They stayed flat but did not drop. It's because of high demand and low supply, not the government.

Not sure what you mean about having 2008 all over again. Back then people foreclosed because banks lended money to people who couldn't afford homes (much like schools are handing money to students who can't pay back their loans). Today people are buying homes at high prices with cash. People can afford houses now. There will be no crash when demand is high and inventory is low.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

How many hours are you working now? What if you fall below 30 hours per week?

You can fall below 30 hours per week even to zero for any individual week. Full time is based on the government and employer definitions. For me, it's on an annual basis so as long as I still get my 2080 hours per year including any PTO I will be OK. If I don't think I will make it, I can go for the annual 1560 hours as long as I find 1 hour with another non-profit/public employee and then I qualify under the more than 1 part time employer rule (could be anything non-pharmacy related too). Read the IDR form, it spells it out for you.

 

[Hedgehog32]

It applies to 10 yr PSLF and 20/25 yr income based forgiveness as well.

Thanks. Hmmm... I haven't signed up for any of the repayment plans yet (was planning on doing PAYE), but I'm wondering if it would make sense to go ahead and sign up for it to be able to take advantage of the "free" months that would count as payments

 

[Monsterdaddy]

What is your original loan amount? How much do you think you would pay with PSLF?

I know I borrowed less than $200K, the current accrued interest and balance is about mid 300's now. I will pay about $35K over 10 years -- I have a lot of kids and low income years, and a spouse in a community property state to slash my income in half. I would say most people would repay significantly more than me.

 

[Gombrich12]

I don't get any of those, so no not everyone gets handouts.

You weren't buying stocks/gold/silver/bitcoin after hearing about the $1200 and $600 weekly? That's the first thing I did when I heard about the stimulus. I didn't qualify for the $1200, but I made sure that I profited even more than that through investments.

 

[confettiflyer]

I basically get $15,000 removed from my ultimate pay off amount due to PSLF (10 months).

10 year PSLF just became 9 years and 2 months.

Put it this way, I’m probably the most pro-govt program student loan advocate on these forums (BMB was my foil, lol) and even *I* am surprised it has gotten this liberal.

Me.

Pleasantly surprised at this? What on earth...

 

[rxkrafted]

You can fall below 30 hours per week even to zero for any individual week. Full time is based on the government and employer definitions. For me, it's on an annual basis so as long as I still get my 2080 hours per year including any PTO I will be OK. If I don't think I will make it, I can go for the annual 1560 hours as long as I find 1 hour with another non-profit/public employee and then I qualify under the more than 1 part time employer rule (could be anything non-pharmacy related too). Read the IDR form, it spells it out for you.

Hypothetically, what happens if you don't meet those hours as you know the pharmacy market has been suffering and ive seen furloughs (and hours being cut) for both community and hospital settings?

What's your fallback plan since you won't meet the criteria for PSLF?

 

[Monsterdaddy]

Hypothetically, what happens if you don't meet those hours as you know the pharmacy market has been suffering and ive seen furloughs (and hours being cut) for both community and hospital settings?

What's your fallback plan since you won't meet the criteria for PSLF?

So as I mentioned, there is another way to meet the full time employment conditions which is to have 2 or more part-time jobs with qualifying employers. The requirement is actually on an annual basis so 30 hrs x 52 weeks = 1560 hours from January 1 to December 31. So if I thought my hours was going to be at risk I can try and find other work.

Now note this carefully, the employment doesn't have to be pharmacy. If I can get employment as a part time crossing guard for a public school, basket weaver teacher at a community college, etc. it all counts if the employer counts as non-profit/public.

I'm ~1,600 hours as of today (had some good OT shifts before COVID hit) so by year end I should meet my employer's 2,080 hr definition of full-time. But if I got furloughed for the rest of the year I just need 1 hour with another non-profit/public to meet the 2 employer part time definition with 1,560 hours.

 

[mentos]

You weren't buying stocks/gold/silver/bitcoin after hearing about the $1200 and $600 weekly? That's the first thing I did when I heard about the stimulus. I didn't qualify for the $1200, but I made sure that I profited even more than that through investments.

What do those investments have to do with handouts?

 

[shiba15]

I paid off my student loan this past Feb so I am not sure how I feel about this. feels like I never benefit from anything the government does during the pandemic

 

[radio frequency]

I don't really care if this makes me sound all "what about me?!? What about footfairy!?!?" but to count 6 months of no interest accruing zero dollar payments towards loan forgiveness for IBR/PAYE/PSLF is just a slap in the face to everyone that actually paid their tuition or resulting loans.

The programs themselves are already a huge boon to people with large loans. Deferring payments during the pandemic is another huge boon. But that isnt enough and all these months of nonpayment are also counting towards the payment totals? I can get behind the first two points to a degree, but I can't even begin to fathom how anyone can justify that last point.

It seems so totally unrelated to the entire purpose of the stimulus bill. We are trying to bridge the economy until the country reopens by supplementing state level unemployment payments, preventing evictions/foreclosures in the immediate time period, giving payroll loans to businesses, and by......erasing 6+ months of debt payments for select individuals instead of just deferring them and adding them to the end of the payment term? What?

I mean...yes. But it’s not personal. You had the same opportunity to accrue debt that they had. No need to be butthurt about it.

Note I also paid off my loans. I sleep well. It’s all good.

 

[footfairy]

I mean...yes. But it’s not personal. You had the same opportunity to accrue debt that they had. No need to be butthurt about it.

Note I also paid off my loans. I sleep well. It’s all good.

Yeah, I'm not going lose any sleep or incite a mob to burn down the houses of people on PSLF/IBR/PAYE/REPAYE. Still, I just can't understand the logic behind this as part of the stimulus. I 100% agree with the decision to the deferment period given the state of the country right now, but if you are going to push back the payments, it should push back the timeline on the program as well.

Most of my technicians are probably bringing home less than the federal $600/week for unemployment and that is something that I've been butthurt about. Can't believe how utterly mistreated all the lower compensation tier essential workers have been.

 

[NorthTexasPharmacist]

Absolute insanity. I'm going to bookmark this thread so I can look back on it in 5 years and laugh at how ridiculous you guys are being right now. Pay your debts. You have a once in a lifetime opportunity to make principle only payments towards a huge student loan and there is talk about just deferring?! As if PSLF is going to be around forever? My god I cannot believe what I'm reading.

This would make sense if you have small amount of loan but for those who have more than 150k, paying the principle for a few months would not make a huge difference. PAYE plan would work out much better for those who owe more than 150k. Any financial savvy person would utilize PAYE and pay as little as possible on the student loan. Save and use what you would've paid on your loan to invest. $500 a month on roth IRA would get you close to or more than a million in 25 years.

Edit: if you're on PAYE, there is no point in paying your principle down since you'd be paying 10% of your income anyways regardless of how much you owe. The best thing would be to minimize any monthly payment, in this case zero in monthly payment.

 

[Monsterdaddy]

Memorandum on Continued Student Loan Payment Relief During the COVID-19 Pandemic | The White House

Memorandum for the Secretary of Education Subject: Continued Student Loan Payment Relief During the COVID-19 Pandemic By the authority vested in me a

www.whitehouse.gov

So the actual text of the Executive Order does not seem to extend PSLF forgiveness on those payment waivers. As I mentioned in the first post, this is still good news as it is now more than likely any stimulus package will now include student loan help and extend PSLF forgiveness. But as we all know it's wait and see.

Now it is also possible that any new Act won't extend PSLF so borrowers have a choice to make. Extend their expected forgiveness date by 3 months by not making payments or make the 3 payments and keep your original forgiveness date.

Alternatively, if your income has dropped dramatically but you otherwise qualify for PSLF then you may want FedLoans to do an immediate recalculation of your IDR before the October payment date and hopefully this significantly lowers your repayment.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I am still so pissed my loans don't qualify - I just don't get exactly why.

 

[JustFillIt]

I feel like I would be crazy to pay anything more than the bare minimum on my student loans. Pay my debts or I’m a deadbeat? Please...

I would so much rather go to Disneyland - they got those mint julip things and the benyays that I can eat like a million of. If I aggressively paid off my loans I would have no idea what it’s like eating 6 benyays and and riding the haunted mansion feels like.. Screw you Dave Ramsey.

 

[lord999]

This is funny. In a vacuum I guess it could be considered true. Compared to other developed nations I think you would have a hard time making the case that we get more handouts than other lands.

List of countries by social welfare spending - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Actually, we do give lots in comparison to the low, low tax burden we face. It's pretty astounding that we get so much for so little. All those countries where you get "free" stuff, the society pays for it sooner or later. Canada being the local "welfare" paradise has higher consumer prices, higher tax, and lower service delivery for many things. The Nordic countries and Germany have very high burdens. Comparatively, the US does more for its lower classes for less than they do, but as we do not tax or otherwise force income transfers to the level of Europe, the poor get very little here in real terms. To make it more fiscally balanced, we need to increase taxes on anyone making more than 75% of median, but the tax rate being super low indirectly benefits us more than those handouts. I find it really funny how many new Republicans I see after four years of paying taxes at the 6 digit income rate from the die-hard student Democrats.

One of the largest problems that is a major gap is that we do not support the working poor. Yes, there is EITC, but there is a donut hole where people working $hit jobs are worse off than welfare in terms of social support (health care, child care, retirement, etc.). I'm talking about households making less than the median income for a household of four. I really hope that this gets addressed sooner than later with increased taxes to offset the gains in this population. We want them to work, those $hit jobs are very necessary to the economy and without them, the economy falls apart for lack of basic foundational services.

But welfare for us, you should take it when available. I get my welfare from lower taxes, some get it through loan forgiveness, others get it through capital transfers, I'd rather take what I'm getting than being poor and precarious enough to get those direct handouts. If you are getting direct handouts from the government, you're in a situation the government feels that you're too disadvantaged to not take advantage of the more lucrative indirect handouts available.

My benefit to not taking benefits is that on the same token, I'm not having to consider the government in any of my financial expenditures. I don't have to worry about government policy or the capricious judgments of some bureaucrat. That sort of peace of mind is worth paying for. @Monsterdaddy is doing all of you who are student loan debt slaves a big favor by pointing out those matters without you having to do the research. But this is the sort of thing that I want to avoid in life, having to worry about these things, because people like @Monsterdaddy NEED to in order to optimize loan payouts to then support his family who are disadvantaged by all that income going to service loans. It's not like he's laughing all the way to the bank, those 529's don't fund themselves...

I'm surprised that the level of discussion doesn't get to the more evolved matters, like beneficiary trusts and LLC's for property ownership (especially if you are working from home given the current tax rules for individuals versus corporations and the problem of phantom income versus deductions), LLC vs S-Corp income, and FBAR. There's pretty straightforward wealth preservation strategies that should be employed to keep assets above $500k from possibly going wrong. I guess we don't have the kind of assets to have it if we're still worried about loans.

We all need to think about how we can best take advantage of the financial situations as they present themselves. Some need to optimize loans, some on the markets, some on capital accumulation (rental property or ownership), and some on preservation when you think you have enough.

 

[MatCauthon]

I'm not paying any extra money with all the talk of loan forgiveness. just yesterday someone proposed 50k loan forgiveness.

 

[radio frequency]

I feel like I would be crazy to pay anything more than the bare minimum on my student loans. Pay my debts or I’m a deadbeat? Please...

I would so much rather go to Disneyland - they got those mint julip things and the benyays that I can eat like a million of. If I aggressively paid off my loans I would have no idea what it’s like eating 6 benyays and and riding the haunted mansion feels like.. Screw you Dave Ramsey.

I’m the opposite but I love this! I also love begnets. You should go to New Orleans for the real deal!

 

[JustFillIt]

I’m the opposite but I love this! I also love begnets. You should go to New Orleans for the real deal!

Haha yea I was just being an @ss... I totally respect those that pay their loans off. However, I do want to minimize the impact that my student loans have on my families life and if that means leveraging policy to get ahead I will do it.

 

[radio frequency]

I'm surprised that the level of discussion doesn't get to the more evolved matters, like beneficiary trusts and LLC's for property ownership (especially if you are working from home given the current tax rules for individuals versus corporations and the problem of phantom income versus deductions), LLC vs S-Corp income, and FBAR. There's pretty straightforward wealth preservation strategies that should be employed to keep assets above $500k from possibly going wrong. I guess we don't have the kind of assets to have it if we're still worried about loans.

We all need to think about how we can best take advantage of the financial situations as they present themselves. Some need to optimize loans, some on the markets, some on capital accumulation (rental property or ownership), and some on preservation when you think you have enough.

I’m all ears. Sounds like you’ve done more research than me, but this is where I’m currently at. I’ve basically done nothing so far beyond pay my mortgage down drastically. What do I need to do?

I’m a huge proponent of planning ahead, and I don’t like surprises.

 

[confettiflyer]

lol people it’s spelled “beignet”

Benyay is what old folks use for aches and pains.

 

[NITRAS]

Haha yea I was just being an @ss... I totally respect those that pay their loans off. However, I do want to minimize the impact that my student loans have on my families life and if that means leveraging policy to get ahead I will do it.

How many families do you have?

The main problems with PSLF is that people make poor financial decisions relying on the government to fix them.
1. Going into so much debt to make so little money is a dumb idea. People can make decisions to not go into/go into much less student loan debt.
2. 10-25 years is a long time, and political winds can change. . . so can your forgiveness.
3. People warp their lives to get forgiveness, rather than be successful. (ie. if you lost $50k a year to work a non-profit, then forgiveness cost you $500,000)


This whole "stimulus" thing is similar to Caesar throwing bread to the masses to keep them pacified. It didn't exactly work out well for the Romans. . . . .

Wonder if we can get a coliseum to hold these political rallies.

 

[Sine Cura]

remind me in 20 years when you get less and less from the govt

 

[JustFillIt]

How many families do you have?

The main problems with PSLF is that people make poor financial decisions relying on the government to fix them.
1. Going into so much debt to make so little money is a dumb idea. People can make decisions to not go into/go into much less student loan debt.
2. 10-25 years is a long time, and political winds can change. . . so can your forgiveness.
3. People warp their lives to get forgiveness, rather than be successful. (ie. if you lost $50k a year to work a non-profit, then forgiveness cost you $500,000)


This whole "stimulus" thing is similar to Caesar throwing bread to the masses to keep them pacified. It didn't exactly work out well for the Romans. . . . .

Wonder if we can get a coliseum to hold these political rallies.

I just have the one.. My wife clearly would not allow to have more than one.

My wife and I married right out of high school and had 5 children together. Almost 20 years in - I know how to make a relationship work and it has nothing to do with my student loans.

Financial responsibility is very important to a healthy relationship - however what I keep trying to communicate is the fact that student loans are different type of debt to me. Student loan debt s not at all stressful if you know what your doing.

 

[JustFillIt]

lol people it’s spelled “beignet”

Benyay is what old folks use for aches and pains.

Yea dude that’s what I said... Benyay...

And I think it’s actually pronounced - Bengay... or is it two words? Ben Gay?

 

[NITRAS]

I just have the one.. My wife clearly would not allow to have more than one.

My wife and I married right out of high school and had 5 children together. Almost 20 years in - I know how to make a relationship work and it has nothing to do with my student loans.

Financial responsibility is very important to a healthy relationship - however what I keep trying to communicate is the fact that student loans are different type of debt to me. Student loan debt s not at all stressful if you know what your doing.

Here is the thing. Why do you feel student loan debt is different than other consumer debt?

It isn't. It should be a business decision. What is your ROI on this investment? You would never go into $500,000 debt at 7% interest to get a job making $150,000. The numbers don't work. Or only works individually if you are heavily subsidized by someone. But it's still bad for our society if we, as society, spend $500,000 on $150,000 jobs.

I was making a joke about family's vs. families. . . sorry if it wasn't funny.

 

[JustFillIt]

Here is the thing. Why do you feel student loan debt is different than other consumer debt?

It isn't. It should be a business decision. What is your ROI on this investment? You would never go into $500,000 debt at 7% interest to get a job making $150,000. The numbers don't work. Or only works individually if you are heavily subsidized by someone. But it's still bad for our society if we, as society, spend $500,000 on $150,000 jobs.

I was making a joke about family's vs. families. . . sorry if it wasn't funny.

Haha no your fine - I just really get bothered by grammar corrections on the internet. I enjoy casual and loose conversation on a forum like this and I do not proof myself in this setting.

Regarding why I consider student loan debt different - you can use all the big words and financial jargon you want but it does not change the fact that my gut tells me that paying off my student loans in an aggressive manner would only be to my detriment. This is coming from a guy who’s only debt is student loans and a mortgage. I have paid my vehicles off and have zero credit card debt. I will continue to bury my student loans as deep as possible and let social policy work for me instead of against me. For example - this year I have not made a single payment t however each month is counting toward a fulfilled payment as far as my loan forgiveness goes. Sounds good to me....