Time in hospital equate to time well spent

[close2dr]

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OK, I know this topic has been discussed before but I could not find the thread and wanted to re-start the discussion. I will apologize in advance if this sounds like whining but, I have got to get it out and hope that others might just feel the same way too.

I am trying not complain in any way but am extremely frustrated. For the most part, I have been very lucky this year with clinical rotations but, I wanted to know the general thoughts about how time spent in the hospital is really useful. I'm not talking about how many hours on this rotation and how many on that rotation. I'm trying to get at quality versus quantity.

I am really starting to hate third year b/c I feel like most of the time in the afternoon (minus call days) I am sitting around in the residents lounge with my intern/resident/fellow med student doing absolutely nothing (besides waiting to be told to go home). I get the feeling sometimes our interns are just keeping us there so we can keep them company or b/c they had to work long hours as a med student and feel like we should do the same. A few times our senior resident has told us to go home only to be faced with the intern giving us total scut work to do.

Does anyone else get the feeling that being a third year is really just about waiting around hoping that someone will eventually tell you to go home - and often when they do tell us to go home they will say something like "why are you still here?". But at the same time, if you ask to go then you are viewed as a bad student, especially if it’s early in the day. What else can be done if you have completed all the work for your patient, have helped do things for patients that are not yours and have tried to follow up on any loose ends???? There is not really a good place to study in our hospital and the residents lounge is way too noisy with people constantly coming and going, a large TV that is always blaring and not really anywhere to even sit comfortably.

I know that I'll likely get flamed for saying these things and that some will claim that they work 90 hours and love every second but, I feel that once I get all my work done I would be better off going home and hitting the books (reading about my patients and/or studying for the shelf coming up in two weeks). I know that studying from books is in no way comparable to the real deal but, I also still have a lot of studying to do and being at the hospital doesn't allow the book studying that I need to pass the shelf.

Furthermore, I feel like as a third year I cannot do anything really worthwhile. I can't write orders; I can't write scripts and most of the nurse’s view us as a nuisance.

Does anyone else have these feelings or should I just shut up and put up?

 

[paramed2premed]

Does anyone else have these feelings or should I just shut up and put up?

Um, yes and yes.

I think most folks have these thoughts at some point during third year. Or more than once. Or even incessantly, during the really spectacular rotations.

 

[Kanga]

i'm with you...i hate sitting around for hours, feeling like there's nothing to do, waiting for a resident to tell me to go home. it sucks. i want all the free time i can get, and it drives me nuts to be spending more unproductive hours in the hospital.


on the positive side... one thing i've been trying to do lately on inpatient rotations is just go chat with patients. i think the afternoons can be pretty lonely when you're stuck in a hospital bed and the rush of morning rounds is over. i've heard some good stories from patients, and felt like my day was a little more meaningful for just giving them someone to talk to.

 

[loveumms]

RIGHT with you dude! My most favorite is when residents tell you how cool they are and want to let you have as much free time to yourself because as soon as your an intern you won't have any. They go on to tell you that they remember what its like to be a student ... they know that you have to study for exams yet they still find the most meaningless tasks for you to do (aka - stick this in so and so's chart or run and find if Mr. M has had a BM). I honestly wouldn't mind being in the hospital doing absolutely nothing if I didn't have exams to take ... even though I really hate the feeling of paying for the ability to sit around (which I could just as easily do at home).

Do all the bit**ing you can afterall that is what these forums are for and remember you are definitely not alone. I cannot think of one of my classmates on the rotations I've gone through so far that hasn't complained of the same thing at least one time. I know I for one have too!

 

[carrigallen]

I like to print out a subject from Uptodate and carry it in your coat pocket. Find a quiet area in the hospital and read it. Tell the residents where you will be, and give them your pager or cell so they can call when they want you.

Or ask if you can go to the library for the remainder of the day, or ask if you can leave to go work on a presentation later in the afternoon.

 

[Caffeinated]

RIGHT with you dude! My most favorite is when residents tell you how cool they are and want to let you have as much free time to yourself because as soon as your an intern you won't have any. They go on to tell you that they remember what its like to be a student ... they know that you have to study for exams yet they still find the most meaningless tasks for you to do (aka - stick this in so and so's chart or run and find if Mr. M has had a BM). I honestly wouldn't mind being in the hospital doing absolutely nothing if I didn't have exams to take ... even though I really hate the feeling of paying for the ability to sit around (which I could just as easily do at home).

Do all the bit**ing you can afterall that is what these forums are for and remember you are definitely not alone. I cannot think of one of my classmates on the rotations I've gone through so far that hasn't complained of the same thing at least one time. I know I for one have too!

Since we have been cleared to unload our complaints, how about this one: resident or staff never defines what your job as medical student is, nor how they want things done (e.g., notes, presentations) yet they expect that you will somehow figure out their expectations. The problem is that my library ran out of copies of First Aid for Mind Reading and they are on back order at Amazon. So you start to do things they way they were done on your last rotation, and this inevitably ends up to be "the wrong way." Then you get lectured by the resident/staff for not doing it correctly. 👎

It feels like 3rd year is never going to end. I am so tired of being less than human. It's been a long time since I enjoyed being a medical student.

 

[Duckie24]

On the first day of one of my rotations both the intern and senior resident said that time spent in the hospital wasn't nearly as valuable as time spent reading. They went on to say that I wouldn't learn as much being in the hospital and that the only way to learn and do well was to spend more time reading. Of course they both went on to keep me in the hospital as long as possible during the rotation doing absolutely nothing. I actually got yelled at once for reading just a couple days before the shelf exam.

I've found it helpful to carry some type of book around with me at all times and when there is nothing to do, read somewhere, anywhere. I ask the resident if there is anything to do and if they can't come up with anything I tell them I am going to read for a bit and to page me if needed. There are tons of quiet places, you just need to find one. One of the more difficult transitions this year has been being able to read only a page or so in a sitting and making that valuable study time.

 

[Caffeinated]

On the first day of one of my rotations both the intern and senior resident said that time spent in the hospital wasn't nearly as valuable as time spent reading. They went on to say that I wouldn't learn as much being in the hospital and that the only way to learn and do well was to spend more time reading. Of course they both went on to keep me in the hospital as long as possible during the rotation doing absolutely nothing. I actually got yelled at once for reading just a couple days before the shelf exam.

That's a great story, and one that seems to occur in hospitals across the country every day. In this case, the intern and resident:

1. Are lying, and they really think that you will learn more in the hospital.
2. Are telling the truth, but they just want to prevent you from learning.

What I don't understand is that all physicians were once medical students, and most med students don't enjoy being treated this way. Why do so many of us grow up to be the kind of intern/resident/attending that we disliked as med students?

It's amazing that so many program directors do not see the recruitment value in taking good care of their medical students. I am not asking for free lunches, easier working hours, or a special express line in the hospital cafeteria. What I mean is really taking care of med students -- teaching them to be confident and competent clinicians. Has anyone ever noticed that the residents and staff who consistently get the best evaluations from students are the ones that show their students the same level of respect that they give to their equals/colleagues?

I'm starting to sound like Jerry Maguire...

 

[njbmd]

Hey there,
I kept photocopied pages out of my text/review books for downtime in the hospital. I never just sat around waiting to go home. My shelf exam scores and USMLE reflected the utility in this. I usually had all of my reading and questions done far in advance and I rocked.

As a resident, I send my students home as early as possible. If they do not want to go home, they can go to the library. I do the same with my intern. If the service is light, you need to be gone because you time can be more productive reading and studying.

Be sure to bring things to study and read all the time. Photocopy chapters so that you do not have to carry a heavy book around. Also, USMLE/COMLEX study can always be done.

njbmd 🙂

 

[loveumms]

Hey there,
I kept photocopied pages out of my text/review books for downtime in the hospital. I never just sat around waiting to go home. My shelf exam scores and USMLE reflected the utility in this. I usually had all of my reading and questions done far in advance and I rocked.

As a resident, I send my students home as early as possible. If they do not want to go home, they can go to the library. I do the same with my intern. If the service is light, you need to be gone because you time can be more productive reading and studying.

Be sure to bring things to study and read all the time. Photocopy chapters so that you do not have to carry a heavy book around. Also, USMLE/COMLEX study can always be done.

njbmd 🙂

I am very sure your students and interns appreciate you immensly. My current resident is just like you and cool as sh**! She ROCKS!

I always tell myself that I will NEVER forget what it's like to be a student when I'm a intern/resident. I think that some interns/residents make their medical school sound like it was boot camp ... "I had to work 100+ hours every week and never got a day off during the month and had to walk up hill to the hospital in the snow bare footed". I always think to myself, well ... thats great but that doesn't mean its better. I know that in a little over a year my life is going to suck big time and I'll be working a ton but while I'm still a student I would like make all the free time I have count.

 

[futuredo32]

As a resident, I send my students home as early as possible. If they do not want to go home, they can go to the library. I do the same with my intern. If the service is light, you need to be gone because you time can be more productive reading and studying.



njbmd 🙂

I REALLY hope to work with residents who share your philosophy next year. Some of my third year friends spend hours upon hours doing busy work that has nothing to do with medicine, doing absolutely nothing at all, even runnning personal errands for the attendings. Needless to say, their shelf exam scores reflected this.