Time in Service for Pay Purposes

Discussion in 'Military Medicine' started by jfitzpat, May 8, 2007.

  1. jfitzpat

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    Does your time in school count towards pay? I know that it doesn't count for retirement or promotion purposes, but I've heard people say it does for pay. Is this correct? Thanks.
     
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  3. BOHICA-FIGMO

    BOHICA-FIGMO Belt-fed Physician
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    As far as I know, the time in medical school definitely does NOT count for retirement or promotion. The 45 day/yr ADTs MAY count, but I'm not really sure. Anyone know for sure about the ADTs?
     
  4. backrow

    backrow 60% of the time it works everytime
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    Nope, sorry, you are an O3 under 2yrs unless you have prior service. The time in medical school does not count for pay or promotion purposes.

    If you are USUHS you will get the four years back once you hit 20, I am not sure if this applies to HPSP as well.
     
  5. USAFGMODOC

    USAFGMODOC Attending physician
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    ADT time doesn't count for squat! Hard to believe, but it doesn't. I was somewhat amazed that being on Active duty status with orders doesn't get added in anywhere for time, I believe it has something to do with the HPSP fine print.:thumbdown:
     
  6. jfitzpat

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    Thanks. That's what I figured, but I've even heard a recruiter say it counts (I didn't believe him, though) so I thought I would ask.
     
  7. met19

    met19 Member
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    if you have a civ deferment for residency i believe that also counts as time.
     
  8. colbgw02

    colbgw02 Delightfully Tacky
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    To be exact, time in medical school does not count for pay if you are considered to be on student status, which is the case with HPSP or USUHS.

    If you have an ADO from some other source and go to medical school, then that time does count toward pay.
     
  9. NavyFP

    NavyFP Senior Member
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    What???? Are you suggesting that if a Naval Academy or ROTC person goes through med school, they would get med school time added in?
     
  10. The White Coat Investor

    The White Coat Investor AKA ActiveDutyMD
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    That's correct. Med school does not count, even ADTs. In fact, my orders specifically say that.
     
  11. BOHICA-FIGMO

    BOHICA-FIGMO Belt-fed Physician
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    So, it sounds like you are implying that time spent in civilian residency as a result of a deferment DOES, in fact, count toward time in grade for retirement and promotion (even if med school doesn't)? I didn't think this was the case. Can you please clarify? Thanks in advance!
     
  12. megadon

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    whoaa whoaa whoaa! Acad grad here. Four years at Canoe U mean nothing towards graduation. Unless you are class year 96 or older. Four years under HPSP mean jack squat (me, Acad grad), USUHS, do 20, magic four of medical school magically show up (10% extra retirement off base pay).

    I have no idea how active duty time each summer counts. This is what I know, HPSP, gotta get to twenty, get credit for twenty. (7 years in the bucket already). USUHS, gotta get to twenty, magic bucket pops up giving 24 years credit. Bottom line, gotta get to twenty. 45*4 = half a year, over twenty years, 1.25%. Pretty much outside the big picture of if you are going for twenty at that point.
     
  13. Bubblehead-to-MD

    Bubblehead-to-MD Emergency Blow!
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    I think that person was trying to say that if someone had prior active duty service, they would not lose that service for pay purposes when they are once again on active duty.

    EDIT: Of course, that person could have meant exactly what you thought - which is entirely incorrect!
     
  14. NavyFP

    NavyFP Senior Member
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    I would concur that time served prior to med school (other than Acad/ROTC) count towards time for pay/retirement. You get half credit for promotion for commissioned service.
     
  15. 73BARMYPgsp

    73BARMYPgsp Post Doc
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    I get to be an 0-3E +6 when I go active. Neener neener.

    Seriously, I have wondered about the TIG/TIS stuff, especially since you basically "skip" over 1LT. I guess it doesn't matter in the end, but it is weird.
     
  16. NavyFP

    NavyFP Senior Member
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    Your medical degree gives you 4 years of entry grade credit. This makes you an O-3. (2 years from O1 to O2 and 2 years from O2 to O3). So LT with no time towards promotion to O4.

    The O3E + 6 is something you earned and deserve. Are they paying you for O1E + 6 when you do your ATs? They should be.
     
  17. Mirror Form

    Mirror Form Thyroid Storm
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    Colbgw02 is exactly correct. BUT, only if you do not do USUHS or HPSP. So if you do ROTC in college, and then pay for med school yourself, you'll graduate as an O-3 with 4.

    There are special clauses that prevent USUHS and HPSP from receiving that benefit.
     
  18. Mirror Form

    Mirror Form Thyroid Storm
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    Nope, it's correct if you don't do HPSP or USUHS. Remember that the only reason you don't get four years for those programs is b/c special rules were passed.
     
  19. NavyFP

    NavyFP Senior Member
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    I get it. You graduate Academy/ROTC and do not accept funding for medical school. You are commissioned in the IRR as an O1/O2 (automatic promotion at 2 years since the HPSP/USU title 10 clause does not apply) and are given credit for time served. That makes perfect sense.
     
  20. The White Coat Investor

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    You are correct in that it applies toward promotion and pay but NOT toward retirement. I have no prior service, did civilian med school and a 3 year civilian residency. I came on active duty being paid as an O-3 with 3 years (and should make O-4 in 3 more), but still owe 20 years to retirement. Does that make sense?
     
  21. AF08

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    I was under the impression that what activeduty MD said is correct but after speaking with a recent grad from my residency program I was told that he started as an 03 with less than 2 years. We are both in FAP, so hence did civilian med school and civilian residency with no prior service. I have heard different stories, not really sure which is accurate. Activeduty MD, did you go through FAP? Or can anyone else who has gone through FAP clarify?
     
  22. NavyFP

    NavyFP Senior Member
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    Time for pay with FAP starts when you sign on the dotted line. You do get credit towards promotion that is based on your graduation from med school, but for pay, it is when you sign.
     
  23. megadon

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    no, no, no. If you were ROTC or Acad, you don't make 0-2 regardless during your four years of med school. You will spend 4 years as an Ensign or 2-LT. When you graduate, you will be an 0-3. Some prior folk will make 0-4 soon thereafter due to prior service rules (1/2 time as an officer towards next promotion).

    As far as the four years of med school, unless you go to USUHS they don't mean jack. If you go to USUHS, they don't mean jack until you get to twenty, then magically they reappear for pension calculations. Yes, a USUHS grad who does twenty will magically get 60% of their BASE pay vice 50% for the rest of us. Acad grads post 1996 get no such consideration, neither do ROTC grads.

    If you go through FAP, they don't care what in the world you did while in med school. It means nothing to the military, they didn't pay for it at the time.
     
  24. HPSPpayissue

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    IRR time counts as TIS?
     
  25. sethco

    sethco Senior Member
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    Simple answer is No.

    However, if you do Active Reserves or Guard after finishing your ADSO, you will get time towards retirement
     
  26. The White Coat Investor

    The White Coat Investor AKA ActiveDutyMD
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    You're right. Residency counts for HPSPers but not FAPers. I discovered this when I was helping another doc with her LES while we were deployed. I was convinced she was being screwed, but after looking at both of our contracts, that's just the way it is.
     
  27. dentalOH

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    IRR time, except for time spent in the delayed enlistment program (DEP) and HPSP, counts as creditable service for pay purposes only. It does not count as TIS towards retirement.
     

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