Tips for getting off the waitlist

[Lafakads]

So right now im in the spot of currently holding an acceptance and trying to get off the waitlist at another school.

Would extra LOR help? I've accumulated some new ones which might be useful.

Problem is after my acceptance I more of less have dropped my activities and havent been doing much.

Was thinking of writing an LOI but what would I say lol?

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[BABSstudent]

So right now im in the spot of currently holding an acceptance and trying to get off the waitlist at another school.

Would extra LOR help? I've accumulated some new ones which might be useful.

Problem is after my acceptance I more of less have dropped my activities and havent been doing much.

Was thinking of writing an LOI but what would I say lol?

I would think the LOI would work more if you were to tailor it to why you are the perfect fit for their school and fit their mission statement. Specifically name things you have done that align with their mission. Maybe stress that they are your top choice (if they are) and list reasons why you want to attend that school. Check out the bottom of my MDApps to see some letters I wrote to my top choice; especially the last one.

However, the LOR could help but it might not do anything. Since you are not supposed to read them, how do you know if it is an amazing one or just okay. The worst thing you would want right now is for a LOR to tell them something bad...

 

[Lafakads]

I would think the LOI would work more if you were to tailor it to why you are the perfect fit for their school and fit their mission statement. Specifically name things you have done that align with their mission. Maybe stress that they are your top choice (if they are) and list reasons why you want to attend that school. Check out the bottom of my MDApps to see some letters I wrote to my top choice; especially the last one.

However, the LOR could help but it might not do anything. Since you are not supposed to read them, how do you know if it is an amazing one or just okay. The worst thing you would want right now is for a LOR to tell them something bad...

Well the I got 2 new LOR. One from a physician whom I've been shadowing for a significant amount of time and he asked me if I wanted him to write me a strong letter.

Also my old employer loved me and he wanted to write me one too.

 

[BABSstudent]

Well the I got 2 new LOR. One from a physician whom I've been shadowing for a significant amount of time and he asked me if I wanted him to write me a strong letter.

Also my old employer loved me and he wanted to write me one too.

I would probably send the physician letter.

For the employer, what is their education level? If they have a Ph.D then I might send it. If it is anything lower, then I would probably not because what are they going to say? Do they even know what being a physician is like or the amount of schooling you are going to go through? How could they recommend that you be a physician then?

That's just my opinion though. I would definitely still send a LOI though with reasons why you would be perfect for their school.

 

[Lafakads]

I would probably send the physician letter.

For the employer, what is their education level? If they have a Ph.D then I might send it. If it is anything lower, then I would probably not because what are they going to say? Do they even know what being a physician is like or the amount of schooling you are going to go through? How could they recommend that you be a physician then?

That's just my opinion though. I would definitely still send a LOI though with reasons why you would be perfect for their school.

He's also a physician, he runs the pathology lab.

Thanks for the help, I'll be sure to look at your LOI and see how your activities match up with your interest in the school.

 

[BABSstudent]

He's also a physician, he runs the pathology lab.

Thanks for the help, I'll be sure to look at your LOI and see how your activities match up with your interest in the school.

The key is to not send them too much. You want it to be something that they can quickly look over. That's why I am hesitant about sending 2 LOR and a LOI. If it is too long, they might decide not to look at any of it. If you don't send enough, they might not take you seriously or think you are sending them fluff to make your application look slightly better/waste their time. Choose wisely.

 

[Aerus]

Well the I got 2 new LOR. One from a physician whom I've been shadowing for a significant amount of time and he asked me if I wanted him to write me a strong letter.

Also my old employer loved me and he wanted to write me one too.

The letter can't really be that strong if you've only shadowed him. What can he say about you other than "He's nice" or "He is polite enough to ask me questions after I'm done with a patient"?

Definitely send them updates and emphasize your interest in that school, why you would be a good match, and that they are your top choice or one of your top choices (if they are).

 

[Lafakads]

The letter can't really be that strong if you've only shadowed him. What can he say about you other than "He's nice" or "He is polite enough to ask me questions after I'm done with a patient"?

Definitely send them updates and emphasize your interest in that school, why you would be a good match, and that they are your top choice or one of your top choices (if they are).

thanks, anymore ideas or samples?

thanks to BABS and Aerus for all the help so far.

 

[futureczar]

I would probably send the physician letter.

For the employer, what is their education level? If they have a Ph.D then I might send it. If it is anything lower, then I would probably not because what are they going to say? Do they even know what being a physician is like or the amount of schooling you are going to go through? How could they recommend that you be a physician then?

That's just my opinion though. I would definitely still send a LOI though with reasons why you would be perfect for their school.

I completely disagree with this. The educational level doesnt matter, if they are able to write a strong letter on your behalf that can only benefit you. Its all about how well the letter writer knows you and your ambitions, and how clearly they can articulate that. Maybe a physician who can write an amazing letter is the best combination to have, but to exclude someone just based on their educational level is silly in my opinion.

The key is to not send them too much. You want it to be something that they can quickly look over. That's why I am hesitant about sending 2 LOR and a LOI. If it is too long, they might decide not to look at any of it. If you don't send enough, they might not take you seriously or think you are sending them fluff to make your application look slightly better/waste their time. Choose wisely.

Again I disagree. It of course depends on the school but I have always thought that more is better (assuming its not just fluff). For example a school has two waitlisted people, person A, and person B. Person A has sent a LOI after being waitlisted and nothing else. Person B has sent two LOI and two LOR. If I was an admin I would be very impressed with person B's interest in the school, and might potentially think they they are more likely to attend than person A. Why would more stuff make them not take you seriously? As long as you arent writing about nothing substantial or arent writing the exact same thing, it seems like expressing more interest is never a bad thing.

Of course you could always subscribe to the philosophy that waitlists are ranked (even if they say they arent) and if person A is ranked higher than person B (aka more desirable), then person A will get accepted off the waitlist no matter how much stuff person B sends.

 

[BABSstudent]

I completely disagree with this. The educational level doesnt matter, if they are able to write a strong letter on your behalf that can only benefit you. Its all about how well the letter writer knows you and your ambitions, and how clearly they can articulate that. Maybe a physician who can write an amazing letter is the best combination to have, but to exclude someone just based on their educational level is silly in my opinion.

Fair enough, but the OP seemed to suggest both letters would be good. Hence, go with the one that actually went to medical school because they know what the whole process is like. In this case they both went.

Again I disagree. It of course depends on the school but I have always thought that more is better (assuming its not just fluff). For example a school has two waitlisted people, person A, and person B. Person A has sent a LOI after being waitlisted and nothing else. Person B has sent two LOI and two LOR. If I was an admin I would be very impressed with person B's interest in the school, and might potentially think they they are more likely to attend than person A. Why would more stuff make them not take you seriously? As long as you arent writing about nothing substantial or arent writing the exact same thing, it seems like expressing more interest is never a bad thing.

Of course you could always subscribe to the philosophy that waitlists are ranked (even if they say they arent) and if person A is ranked higher than person B (aka more desirable), then person A will get accepted off the waitlist no matter how much stuff person B sends.

First, you seem to be taking my words to the extreme. I am not saying send one letter and be done. I sent three to the school I will be matriculating to. However, I sent them 2.5 months apart from each other.

The whole premise of my advice is to avoid redundancy. The reason why I sent them so spread out was to build up enough to talk about so I could avoid being redundant.

I don't know about you, but I hate when I feel like someone is wasting my time. Maybe it is from TAs that would quit grading assignments/professors crossing out entire paragraphs on papers because of redundancy, but I try to avoid it at all cost.

The adcom members don't have unlimited time to go over applications. Thus, express your desire to attend in the strongest/shortest amount possible. Try to keep it under a page for LOIs.

If you really feel like adding 2 LOR will help you then add it. However, what makes them different? I think you need to address this before having both letters sent.

 

[saveourpens]

What worked for me? Letter or intent, substantial update letters, and two more LORs.

And Aerus, aren't you a sophomore in college?

 

[Lafakads]

What worked for me? Letter or intent, substantial update letters, and two more LORs.

And Aerus, aren't you a sophomore in college?

Awesome, looking for more people like you with success stories. Thanks!

 

[futureczar]

What worked for me? Letter or intent, substantial update letters, and two more LORs.

And Aerus, aren't you a sophomore in college?

Props on the avatar, much russian pride

 

[saveourpens]

Props on the avatar, much russian pride

Ha I didn't think anyone here would recognize it!

 

[ezhik]

Ha I didn't think anyone here would recognize it!

your avatar makes me smile

 

[music2doc]

So right now im in the spot of currently holding an acceptance and trying to get off the waitlist at another school.

Would extra LOR help? I've accumulated some new ones which might be useful.

Problem is after my acceptance I more of less have dropped my activities and havent been doing much.

Was thinking of writing an LOI but what would I say lol?

Maybe send the letters (that is all dependent upon the individual school). Definitely prepare to reapply if you don't have an acceptance somewhere by the end of Monday. (I'm not saying you're not going to get off if you don't get off Monday; what I am saying is to make sure you are ready just in case and don't end up submitting late in hopes of an acceptance.)

 

[oberon]

I sent a LOI and got pulled off a waitlist a week later. Not sure if its coincidence or what.. but I don't think it hurts. I'd send the LOR's as well.

 

[Palam]

The letter can't really be that strong if you've only shadowed him. What can he say about you other than "He's nice" or "He is polite enough to ask me questions after I'm done with a patient"?

Definitely send them updates and emphasize your interest in that school, why you would be a good match, and that they are your top choice or one of your top choices (if they are).

A lot of things can be said. It can be said that you're the most promising student yet, that you have a gift in regards to medicine/patients/a certain speciality, that you managed to impress other physicians with your knowledge and bedside manner, etc.

One of my letters says that even as an undergrad I clearly had a knack for radiology.

 

[Aerus]

What worked for me? Letter or intent, substantial update letters, and two more LORs.

And Aerus, aren't you a sophomore in college?

Does my year in college invalidate anything that I've said? I've shadowed physicians before. The idea that the physicians I shadowed could write anything substantial enough to put on a medical school LOR seems ludicrous to me.

I guess they could write some BS, but I would never shoot myself in the foot and submit one of those "he's nice" letters.

A lot of things can be said. It can be said that you're the most promising student yet, that you have a gift in regards to medicine/patients/a certain speciality, that you managed to impress other physicians with your knowledge and bedside manner, etc.

One of my letters says that even as an undergrad I clearly had a knack for radiology.

Yes, but how can a physician you've only shadowed make those claims?

"Promising student?" - you shadowed them, not took a course under them.

"Have a gift in regards to medicine/patients/ a certain specialty" - How can they tell when you just follow them around and stay quiet when they're dealing with a patient? They certainly cannot tell if you have a certain knack for a specialty by just following them around for a couple of days.

"Knowledge" - WHAT. You're a pre-med. ANY knowledge a pre-med has on medicine is made irrelevant and insignificant once one reaches medical school. If one premed knows 10 things about medicine and another premed knows 100 things about medicine, we learn in basic chemistry and physics that both are about equal to each other (significant figures) when comparing it to the millions of things one learns in medical school. Thus, there is no advantage to having "knowledge about medicine".

"Knack for radiology" - This is absolutely absurd. First, many people change their minds once they reach the medical school level. Second, there is no way someone who you only follow around can possibly tell if you have a knack for something like radiology.

 

[music2doc]

A lot of things can be said. It can be said that you're the most promising student yet, that you have a gift in regards to medicine/patients/a certain speciality, that you managed to impress other physicians with your knowledge and bedside manner, etc.

One of my letters says that even as an undergrad I clearly had a knack for radiology.

He could say you were God's Son too. It doesn't mean anyone is going to believe what he said. If I read "he clearly has a knack for radiology" in someone's LOR, I would start leaning toward a rejection (if that was the only piece of information I had) because the only "way" an undergrad might be oriented toward something like radiology or pathology (such that a shadowed physician would notice) would be if you clearly had poor social skills, made pts feel uncomfortable, are a loner, are socially awkward, etc.

Does my year in college invalidate anything that I've said? I've shadowed physicians before. The idea that the physicians I shadowed could write anything substantial enough to put on a medical school LOR seems ludicrous to me.

I guess they could write some BS, but I would never shoot myself in the foot and submit one of those "he's nice" letters.



Yes, but how can a physician you've only shadowed make those claims?

"Promising student?" - you shadowed them, not took a course under them.

"Have a gift in regards to medicine/patients/ a certain specialty" - How can they tell when you just follow them around and stay quiet when they're dealing with a patient? They certainly cannot tell if you have a certain knack for a specialty by just following them around for a couple of days.

"Knowledge" - WHAT. You're a pre-med. ANY knowledge a pre-med has on medicine is made irrelevant and insignificant once one reaches medical school. If one premed knows 10 things about medicine and another premed knows 100 things about medicine, we learn in basic chemistry and physics that both are about equal to each other (significant figures) when comparing it to the millions of things one learns in medical school. Thus, there is no advantage to having "knowledge about medicine".

"Knack for radiology" - This is absolutely absurd. First, many people change their minds once they reach the medical school level. Second, there is no way someone who you only follow around can possibly tell if you have a knack for something like radiology.

This guy seems to get it. Shadowing LORs....worthless.

 

[TheShaker]

Does my year in college invalidate anything that I've said? I've shadowed physicians before. The idea that the physicians I shadowed could write anything substantial enough to put on a medical school LOR seems ludicrous to me.

I guess they could write some BS, but I would never shoot myself in the foot and submit one of those "he's nice" letters.



Yes, but how can a physician you've only shadowed make those claims?

"Promising student?" - you shadowed them, not took a course under them.

"Have a gift in regards to medicine/patients/ a certain specialty" - How can they tell when you just follow them around and stay quiet when they're dealing with a patient? They certainly cannot tell if you have a certain knack for a specialty by just following them around for a couple of days.

"Knowledge" - WHAT. You're a pre-med. ANY knowledge a pre-med has on medicine is made irrelevant and insignificant once one reaches medical school. If one premed knows 10 things about medicine and another premed knows 100 things about medicine, we learn in basic chemistry and physics that both are about equal to each other (significant figures) when comparing it to the millions of things one learns in medical school. Thus, there is no advantage to having "knowledge about medicine".

"Knack for radiology" - This is absolutely absurd. First, many people change their minds once they reach the medical school level. Second, there is no way someone who you only follow around can possibly tell if you have a knack for something like radiology.

I think you are making the assumption that your experiences are exactly the same as the experiences of others. Your shadowing experiences may involve mostly following the physician around and, in a literal sense, being a shadow. Other physicians are more engaging, asking the student their opinion, explaining their thought process behind a decision, and generally seeing how a student thinks and processes information. This allows the physician to see how you work and if you have a certain amount of potential in their mind. Also, interactions such as asking good and thoughtful questions should indicate interest as well as a critical mind. I really don't see how you think it is impossible to form a legitimate opinion about someone from an experience like this over an extended amount of time.

Physician LORs may not be the strongest but I think they can supplement an application if it was a quality shadowing experience. The point is that I think it is wrong of you to make a universal opinion on a matter that is variable across different people.

 

[yehhhboiii]

Aerus is right, people want to see letters about your character from someone who has spent significant time with you and can judge your character, ability, etc. Shadowing is generally a passive activity and won't really give them much to base their opinion on.

 

[Aerus]

I think you are making the assumption that your experiences are exactly the same as the experiences of others. Your shadowing experiences may involve mostly following the physician around and, in a literal sense, being a shadow. Other physicians are more engaging, asking the student their opinion, explaining their thought process behind a decision, and generally seeing how a student thinks and processes information. This allows the physician to see how you work and if you have a certain amount of potential in their mind. Also, interactions such as asking good and thoughtful questions should indicate interest as well as a critical mind. I really don't see how you think it is impossible to form a legitimate opinion about someone from an experience like this over an extended amount of time.

Physician LORs may not be the strongest but I think they can supplement an application if it was a quality shadowing experience. The point is that I think it is wrong of you to make a universal opinion on a matter that is variable across different people.

I see the point you're making but, you just hit the nail on what I've been trying to say.

SHADOWING letters aren't strong. If you had some sort of long term mentor and he happened to be a physician, then that's a different story. But when someone says shadowing, they imply that they followed a physician for a few days, having minimal interaction and doing mostly passive observing. Anything more isn't shadowing.

And one must question whether shadowing for a significant amount of time in which a LOR is appropriate is really a productive use of one's time. Rather than shadowing a single physician for 200 hours+, one can better spend 180 of those hours volunteering or perfecting a hobby.

 

[Palam]

I really hope some of the posts above are sarcasm. Did I honestly read someone having a knack for radiology makes them impersonal? How stupid do you have to be to say that seriously?

 

[Palam]

I see the point you're making but, you just hit the nail on what I've been trying to say.

SHADOWING letters aren't strong. If you had some sort of long term mentor and he happened to be a physician, then that's a different story. But when someone says shadowing, they imply that they followed a physician for a few days, having minimal interaction and doing mostly passive observing. Anything more isn't shadowing.

And one must question whether shadowing for a significant amount of time in which a LOR is appropriate is really a productive use of one's time. Rather than shadowing a single physician for 200 hours+, one can better spend 180 of those hours volunteering or perfecting a hobby.

Shadowing is spending time with the physician, substantial time or not, and experiencing what they do without the hands on. One of the physicians I shadowed was a neuroradiologist and he would quiz me constantly while he interpreted mris and cts. He knew I studied neuroscience and wanted to see how I stacked up

This is not complicated

 

[Aerus]

I really hope some of the posts above are sarcasm. Did I honestly read someone having a knack for radiology makes them impersonal? How stupid do you have to be to say that seriously?

Music2doc is actually an experienced SDNer. He's given tons of useful advice in this past and it's wise to listen to it.

Think about it. The short amount of time you've shadowed someone. If the first thing that comes in their mind is "They should go into radiology" without the doctor knowing much more about the person (which makes sense because shadowing a doctor shouldn't be long term), then what does that say about the person other than they are bad with people? What kind of traits can a guy who only knows you for at most a few weeks say about you that would put you in the category "having a knack for radiology"?

You must understand how absurd this sounds. No one is being sarcastic. If you think our points are absurd, then you're free to speak your counter-arguments as well.

Shadowing is spending time with the physician, substantial time or not, and experiencing what they do without the hands on. One of the physicians I shadowed was a neuroradiologist and he would quiz me constantly while he interpreted mris and cts. He knew I studied neuroscience and wanted to see how I stacked up

This is not complicated

Quizzing someone on trivial information says very little about the person itself. That is not complicated.

 

[Palam]

Music2doc is actually an experienced SDNer. He's given tons of useful advice in this past and it's wise to listen to it.

Think about it. The short amount of time you've shadowed someone. If the first thing that comes in their mind is "They should go into radiology" without the doctor knowing much more about the person (which makes sense because shadowing a doctor shouldn't be long term), then what does that say about the person other than they are bad with people? What kind of traits can a guy who only knows you for at most a few weeks say about you that would put you in the category "having a knack for radiology"?

You must understand how absurd this sounds. No one is being sarcastic. If you think our points are absurd, then you're free to speak your counter-arguments as well.



Quizzing someone on trivial information says very little about the person itself. That is not complicated.

Sure, when I'm not sitting in the back of an ambulance I'll come online and post my counter. But at this point (and I'm sorry for the drama) it just seems like a lot overly emotional, cynical nonsense in here. I apologize if I'm in the minority with that perception.

I do find myself wondering if this thread is why senior posters suggest this forum is poisonous to premeds.

For the record, I made some keen observations interpreting cases but I'm also not 'just' a premed. If that hurts me in the long run, despite the letter stating I want to go into family medicine, then oh well.

 

[music2doc]

Music2doc is actually an experienced SDNer. He's given tons of useful advice in this past and it's wise to listen to it.

Haha... thanks, although I won't be the first to say sometimes I'm wrong. Sometimes, it's also interesting to stir the pot a little....

Good luck regardless, OP. LORs or no LORs. Your best bet is to figure out why you got waitlisted this year and fix it before reapplying. From what I hear, schools are MUCH more receptive to fixes when people reapply than they are immediately after they've been waitlisted.

 

[music2doc]

I really hope some of the posts above are sarcasm. Did I honestly read someone having a knack for radiology makes them impersonal? How stupid do you have to be to say that seriously?

I'm not saying to have a knack for radiology makes you impersonal (although this wouldn't really be a term I would use to describe such a person anyway). What I am saying is that such a statement could be made by someone as code for, "This is someone who probably belongs in a dark room looking at slides or x-ray images." It's potentially a really big insult coded in nice terms and from what I hear, adcoms tend to read between the lines just like employers do.

Shadowing is spending time with the physician, substantial time or not, and experiencing what they do without the hands on. One of the physicians I shadowed was a neuroradiologist and he would quiz me constantly while he interpreted mris and cts. He knew I studied neuroscience and wanted to see how I stacked up

This is not complicated

Nevertheless, do you think anyone will assume he pimped you as his shadow? The relationship I think of when I hear "I shadowed a neuroradiologist," from a pre-med isn't, "He pimped me and asked me a bunch of questions." It's, "I followed him around and he showed me a bunch of [cool] images and I might have observed him see a few patients as well." It's all about how the person reading it understands things. Honestly, even if you were a med student shadowing, I wouldn't assume you had been pimped unless you specifically stated that.

 

[Aerus]

Sure, when I'm not sitting in the back of an ambulance I'll come online and post my counter. But at this point (and I'm sorry for the drama) it just seems like a lot overly emotional, cynical nonsense in here. I apologize if I'm in the minority with that perception.

I do find myself wondering if this thread is why senior posters suggest this forum is poisonous to premeds.

For the record, I made some keen observations interpreting cases but I'm also not 'just' a premed. If that hurts me in the long run, despite the letter stating I want to go into family medicine, then oh well.

Worst case scenario, the letter does nothing to harm you. It probably won't help you though.