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to that idiot jmejia1 who got a DUI and is mad that iowa wants a background check!

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by drago, Jul 30, 2001.

  1. drago

    drago Member
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    if you are stupid enough to get behind the wheel when you've had too much to drink, then i hope you rejected everywhere. you endagered the lives of countless people. don't play this off as some childish mistake that you fixed when you matured-it happened when you were 21! i can't believe you have the balls to even say you did this and wonder why iowa does background checks-i am grateful that schools like iowa are checking up on losers like yourself. i have known people who have been severely injured by drunk drivers, so don't try to get any sympathy over here. are you suprised some schools want to do background checks? you are obviously not mature enough to drive a car,dingus, so why the hell do you think you're mature enough to be a doctor. i still can't get over the fact that you want to know why iowa does background checks,and not how you can prove to them you've changed-which, obviously didn't happen. you can go drink all you want, i don't care, but once you get behind the wheel you're a threat to the very people you aim to treat later in your life. if this forum were like survivor, i'd vote you off.
     
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  3. mongoose

    mongoose Membership Revoked
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    personally, I beleive you, drago, are teh one acting like both an dingus and an idiot! Keep you're overbearing opinions to yourself you jerk
     
  4. Ryu

    Ryu Member
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    Although Drago's opinion is a little personal, I totally agree with his idea that somebody so immature (DUI at 21!) should face some criticism.
     
  5. bluegill

    bluegill Member
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    "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone."

    In my 23 years of life, I have yet to encounter a person who hasn't committed any mistakes. People on this forum are hilarious. You rant and rave about who does and does not deserve to study medicine. God forbid the admissions committees might find out what skeletons are lurking in your OWN closets - then your self-righteous perches on high horses might not seem so wonderful.

    I am not saying that driving under the influence is okay - it is not - but I don't believe that we are able to assume that this person is incapable of being a good doctor. If the admissions committee had a record of the ten worst mistakes we've all ever made, then none of us would get accepted to med school (or at least I know I wouldn't!)
     
  6. ehem....I will cast the first stone!

    (picking up stone.....holding back to gain momentum....and

    THREW IT AT THEM... :D
    heheh

    u know, if someone who is reckless enough to jeopardize their own life and someone else's shouldn't become a doctor!!! now obviously everyone who has a DUI is going to complain their ass off....

    but I personally, dont have any LEGAL problems concerned with alcohol, drugs or even cigarretes!!!

    Of course, if we talk about sex...well I am not married yet, so you can't condemning me for having illicit sexual behaviors...(having said that....I am a virgin, ok there) now everyone knows!!!!

    and the worst I ever done was watch porno....there, that is my closet.... :D

    so now I can threw the stones at all u corrupt pple out there....

    and heck, I wouldnt want a drunken doctor to operate on me... :rolleyes: all u "Cast first stone and gibberest"....so I guess we shouldn't put anyone in jail...cuz we are condemning murder, stealing, manslaughter (Driving under the influence) blah blah

    there is a big line in condemning someone and throwing the stone, and pple who put other pple's live at risk!!!! if you don't know the difference, then maybe you should consider a different career....

    aham I am thinking law... :D
     
  7. Col_4:14

    Col_4:14 Senior Member
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    Now drago, I understand your feelings in this. Surely, whoever posted the DUI thread has to know that there are long standing consequences to such actions. However, I do not think that this action should "rule medicine out for her(or him)." Truly, many questions on that person's judgment will come up but that is not for us (or you) to decide.
    You will probably find a lukewarm to cool reception to your feelings on this (even with the insults deleted). From my experience, this is probably due to others committing the same crime without being caught. I learned from many people that just about everyone who drinks, has, at one time or another, driven a car while being drunk (I haven't simply because I do not drink). For this reason, they see jmejia1 as themselves. This is understandable. However, wrong is still wrong.
    I quite honestly am more fearful of the boneheads out there who drink and drive on a regular basis and see nothing wrong with it. I have lost 4 friends (3 in one crash!) to DUI accidents where they were the drunk ones. I can't tell you how this feels for the families and friends. They don't know what to think. There are those who want to scrape off personal accountability by blaming the bars. This is ridiculous. People go to bars and get drunk and people drive home. The best that you can do is to be sure nobody in your presence is allowed to drive home after drinking. As for jmejia1, well, he/she has enough problems to worry about. Hopefully, this application process will make an impression on that person how serious and consequential drunk driving can (and should) be.
     
  8. moo

    moo 1K Member
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    I don't think drago was saying that the guy with the DUI couldn't be a good doc. I think he was mad at the fact that the guy with the DUI was shocked at the fact that Iowa would look into his past and could reject him because of the DUI. Personally, I WOULD reject someone solely on the basis of a DUI conviction. It shows irresponsibility on the behalf of the applicant and is much more serious than something, say, if you partied too much and got a low GPA but made up for it in later years. DUI is against the law for a reason.
     
  9. Amy B

    Amy B I miss my son so much
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    It was quoted as he who is blameless cast the first stone......

    I cast that stone. There is NO reason anyone should ever get into a car and drive when they have been drinking enough to be considered legally drunk.

    I don't drink. I have never had a DUI, never committed a crime, never even gotten a ticket. I have NO skeletons in my closet. I don't tout myself to be perfect, but I am and will always be a moral, law abinding citizen.

    I do know that DUI's are a major problem in this country. People do not think twice about the people they are going to endanger when they drink and drive.

    I fully support the original poster's words. A doctor is supposed to save lives, not take them. Yes, I realize we aren't doctors yet, BUT I believe we are who we are now morally and if we hold our fellow man in such low regard that we would drink and drive, then I truely believe we need to look deep in our being and figure out why we should be granted the right to practice medicine.

    First do no harm.
     
  10. bluegill

    bluegill Member
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    The admissions committees will probably view the DUI unfavorably, and not admit this person. This makes sense since there are thousands of other applicants with great accomplishments and zero felony convictions

    That is the purpose behind that question in the AMCAS: "Have you ever been convicted..." The whole system usually works to avoid admitting seriously irresponsible people.

    I'm just saying that people around here need to chill out a little bit before they go ballistic on others for their moral shortcomings. I think the difficulty of med school admsissions gets folks all wound up and stressed and angry, and then they have a tendency to explode at people who appear to be "unworthy" applicants.

    I don't drink and drive, but I do have some experience with doing wrong. My second year of college, I got into trouble. The kind of trouble that could have made med school admissions considerably more difficult (ie, possibly worthy of getting a probation from my university, but not from a judge). Since there was no serious crime involved, and because my record was otherwise clean, the Dean allowed me to get off with a warning. I knew that I had potentially jeopardized my future in medicine, and I have steered clear of major trouble ever since.

    Now I am in medical school, and I still thank God that the Dean had the sense to give me another shot. This isn't the same as a DUI, but it gives me a little bit of perspective.
     
  11. Smurfette

    Smurfette Antagonized by Azrael
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    drago I hear where you're coming from, and I agree, but you are a bit harsh in your response. Drunk driving is stupid, and just because you don't injure anyone else does not make it any less serious--it just makes you and everyone else on the road lucky.

    I must admit I too am shocked that jmejia is upset about the background checks and wants to 'sneak around' it by applying to schools that won't do history checks. A DUI, whether misdeamenor or felony, will follow you around for a long time, and will potentially impede the ability to find a residency or other positions.

    Is that fair? It depends on the individual. Being only 2 years away from that DUI conviction instead of say, 4 or 5 or more makes a BIG difference. If you were 21 at the time it happened, it is hard to say that at the ripe old age of 23 you have matured beyond this type of behavior than if you were now 27 and have had no other incidents.

    That being said, if you indeed have matured beyond that point, you need to address it directly and honestly. Trying to cover it up is not a mature way to handle it---you need to prove to Iowa and other schools that you've moved on and learned from what happened. If you are less than forthcoming about it, there could be more serious repercussions later on. Such as getting kicked out of school (then NO school would take you).

    Just my 0.02
     
  12. Popoy

    Popoy SDN Super Moderator
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    Where is this person anyway? We should hear him/her out.... I wonder what he/she thinks about everyone's comment?
     
  13. jmejia1

    jmejia1 Senior Member
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    I have to admit, I was taken back by the tone and hatred present in drago's comments. However, from his post, he doesn't sound like the idealistic moral person one would imagine him to be. The way he decided to express himself is "immature". I find it odd he'll step on me for my moral shortcomming yet he expresses himself with such words as "idiot", "dingus", "loser" etc . . . . Are med schools looking for people who lose thier cool like this?

    Everyone makes mistakes, and I made one. I won't downsize the magnitude of my error; however, one mistake does not have any baring on the quality of care I can provide to my future patients. Drinking a margarita in celebration of a successful semester and driving home was an unexcusable mistake, but ten years later what does my patient care about this? It's not hard to learn from such a mistake. Why would it take me longer than two years to learn from it? I'm not fighting any demons, or fighting with myself not to do it again--it was a mistake that I haven't repeated.

    I'm not angry at Iowa for doing background checks. I was simply surprised that they would require one to sign release forms to do a background check.

    Lastly, like someone mentioned: "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." Even those that threw stones at me, happily sharing they're sin-free should be careful to judge: There is plenty of life's lessons to learn from. The trick is to learn from your mistakes and not to repeat them.

    I spoke to my premed advisor about this today, he mentioned that admission comittees are not narrow-minded. They know we make mistakes, because they made mistakes themselves. Only an "idealistic" navie premed would not want me to become a doctor, but that's simply such a person's opinion, which has no baring.

    One last thing, somehow people are assuming I'm trying to "cover it up" by lying about it in my application. That have never been my intention.
     
  14. Nubtastic

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    These are the most self righteous posts I have ever seen. Just because you have not been caught comitting a crime does not mean that you are innocent. You all condem this person for driving under the influence of Alcohol, but how many of you non-drinkers out there have hopped behind the wheel after taking cold medicine. Same difference.

    Second of all being reckless doesn't make you a bad person. I used to street race, I drink, I have sex, and I still want to be a doctor. None of these things influence my ability to be an excellent health care provider. I would say that htey actually give me alittle more insight into the lives of an average person, who are probably not perfect like "stone-casters" who have posted previously.

    Also don't think because you have made it to 25 or thirty without committing a crime that you won't change. Its called a midlife crisis mostly suffered by those who do not think they have lived (read taken career, work, religion, family too seriously).

    I say one mistake should make no difference to a medical school application

    NUB
     
  15. Homer J. Simpson

    Homer J. Simpson 1st and goal from the 1 yard line.
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    WOW. It must be nice to be able to sit atop Mt. Sanctimonious and throw lightning bolts down at all imperfect-unfit for medicine-menace to society-heathens.

    "Doctors save lifes...not take them", "I wouldn't accept someone with DUI", "I wouldn't want a drunk doctor operating on me".

    Where do I sign up to worship at the altar of all of you perfect people?

    Do you self-righteous bastards think that everyone who enters med school is pure? Never made any big, even law-breaking (GASP! :eek:
    ) mistakes? Yes, driving drunk puts others live's in danger. Anyone here ever go above the speed limit? Did you know that speed is the number one cause of auto accidents? Whether or not you've gotten a ticket for it is irrelevant. You put someone's life in danger; it is now your moral imperative to withdraw your applications from med school.

    Most of you probably go to doctors who grew up in the 60's, 70's and 80's. Hmmmm...think any of em ever smoked a joint, dropped acid, snorted a few lines...and then drove a car....? Come to think of it, how many of you even know the legal history of your doctor, or what they were doing when they were 21?

    People are so quick to judge on this site who is and isn't fit for medicine. Do any of you know the history of this person? Would it change your mind if you found out that the DUI was 5 years old, and that he's spent those 5 years counseling alcoholics and/or teaching kids about the dangers of drinking and driving?

    Get over yourselves.

    Homer J.

    ************
     
  16. rxfudd

    rxfudd 1K Member
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    In Illinois, the BAC limit is .08 - does that mean that someone who is arrested for having a BAC of .081 is guiltier than someone with a BAC of .079? This certainly happens to lots and lots of people. And I understand that we need to set a BAC cutoff somewhere, but you can't be certain that this person is a wild, immoral beast with a BAC of .5 just because a DUI was given. And furthermore, the BAC limit was just lowered a couple of years ago from .10 - so if someone was arrested in Illinois with a BAC of .09, are they savages? And if they are, would you have thought the same a few years ago (when it was a legal BAC in IL)?

    Unless you guys know the specifics of this persons situation, I think it's a bit unfair to judge...
     
  17. Amy B

    Amy B I miss my son so much
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    Actually, no I have never taken drugs, over the counter or otherwise and driven my car.

    I believe the real issue with this post is the passion behind where the "anger" comes from. If you have ever had your life altered due to the effects of one person's "mistake" of drinking and driving, then you would understand the resentment.

    The pain of losing a loved one due to DUI NEVER goes away. These victims who are killed can't recover from this mistake, they don't get to grow up and mature, raise a family, get married, have average life experiences, etc.... DUI is a cold heartless and unforgivable offense to victims families.

    No one has the right to drink and drive ever.
    My opinion has nothing to do with me feeling holier than anyone, it has to do with the intense feelings I have knowing that 1000's of people lose their lives for no reason except for the fact that someone couldn't just let someone else drive their car after they were done drinking.

    Hey, it's that simple, friends don't let friends drink and drive.

    As for the poster who had this DUI and anyone else reading these posts who have had DUI and don't want to include it on the applications for fear of what med schools will say, I say to you.....

    Why don't you show them your true remorse (if you feel DUI is wrong and a mistake you wish you hadn't made) by volunteering to give talks to area high schools about the perils of DUI, gather facts and share with them the effects on victims families. This would help to make your case to the admits that you are still a worthy canidate for the medical profession.
    Plus you may even save a life by helping high schoolers think twice before they drink and drive.

    Enough said by this 35 year old, who has personally felt the intense anguish from the effects of DUI. :(
     
  18. FSUMED

    FSUMED Senior Member
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    Ok, some of you folks definately need to simmer down. I think the person knows that they did was wrong and that is between her, god, and the adcoms. I think they should get a second chance, everybody makes mistakes...I bet many of you that are whining about it probably voted for Bush who also had a DUI conviction.
     
  19. Bruin4Life

    Bruin4Life Senior Member
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    Amy Beth, I'm sorry if you've had anguish caused by a reckless DUI offender, but not everyone who gets pulled over for a dui is reckless, and deserving of no forgiveness. Like someone mentioned, a .08 is not the same as a .40, yet both are DUIs.

    Getting pulled for a dui doesn't mean the only way to redeem yourself is to go give talks to high school students.

    Don't tell me you've never gone five miles over the posted speed limit, because if you've had you're as guilty as the DUI offender: You've risked other people's life. My own professors have recieved tickets for speeding, and so have a ton of other people I know, it still doesn't make it right, but do you see them going to high schools preaching about why no one should go faster than the posted speed limit? Again, I'm sorry if you've been touched by a dui incident, but maybe you should seek couseling if you haven't gotten over it.
     
  20. Bruin4life

    WHAT KIND OF NONSENSE BS WAS THAT?

    a person who went 5 miles over the posted speed limit is the same as a DUI...

    have u fell off your bonkers? what a bunch of BULL....a DUI CAN KILL A PERSON.....the fact that he didn't is a miracle by itself....

    going 5 miles over teh posted speed limit, is NOT THE SAME>...you still have the mental capacity to see where your going....

    of course going 40 miles over the speed limit is another story
     
  21. star23

    star23 Senior Member
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    I agree with the original poster on his sentiment - although the insults were probably a little much. I too am aghast that jmemia1 was almost indignant that Iowa wants to do a backround check.

    DUI is a big deal no matter how you slice it. I don't know if a DUI will or should absolutely rule him out for med school admission, but it would make me think twice about him if I was on an adcom. Doctors should be saving lives not ending them and he will have a hard time convincing me and many adcom memebers that this was merely an isolated incident of poor judgement.

    Although I drink I have NEVER driven after drinking because I have seen firsthand how drunk driving can alter so many people's lives.

    As for how it has affected people in the past. A good friend of mine applied last year and had a MIP (if you want to hear a REAL sob story: he was at a bar and sitting at a table where alcohol was present and even though he had not consumed any EtOH he was still ticketed - I was there and witnessed the whole thing) An MIP is not even close to the magnitude of a DUI in my opinion. He was grilled in all of his interviews about it (hopkins, vandy, washu, uchicago are the ones I remember). Although he had all the other qualifications (3.97 in biochem, cellist in the university orchestra, multitudes of volunteer work, published) he was turned down at all but one school. A few of the schools allow you to inquire about why you were turned down - in order to improve your app for next year - and they both mentioned the MIP as a big factor.

    As for this line of reasoning: "Drinking a margarita in celebration of a successful semester and driving home was an unexcusable mistake, but ten years later what does my patient care about this? It's not hard to learn from such a mistake. Why would it take me longer than two years to learn from it? "

    You seem to imply by this comment that 2 years has gone by so you have done your time. TEN years ago a friend of my family was driving home from work in a college town when she was hit by a college student who was drunk driving after celebrating the end of the semester. She lived through the accident but died on the OR table. She had just become a first time mother after years of infertility treatment. I will never forget the scene at her funeral on Xmas eve, ten years ago, when her husband walked down the aisle tears streaming down his face with their newborn twins - one in each arm - dressed in their new crushed red velvet xmas outfits. Her husband's life fell apart after she died. He just recently divorced his second wife in part becuase she never accepted the twins. The twins and their father are still in counseling and will forever be scarred all because some college student didn't think twice before getting behind the wheel after he was out celebrating the end of the semester. You should be grateful that you weren't the drunk driver in a similar story like this - not indignant that a medical school wants to check out your story.

    That is my story of 3 people(there are hundreds of thousands more and you had better hope none of them are on the adcom's of the schools you are applying to) who will deal with the actions of a drunk driver for a LIFETIME. Makes your 2 years seem rather insignificant don't you think?
     
  22. moo

    moo 1K Member
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    Speeding is not the same as a DUI. Speeding is not a misdeamenor. A DUI is.
     
  23. Ryu

    Ryu Member
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    I am in total awe that somebody can imply that five miles over the speed limit has the same meaning to DUI. I know you did not say it explicitly, but you implied it very strongly. Your message will do a lot of harm to other high school kids who are visiting this site. Think before you write.

    I am not a self-righteous, uptight person. Anybody with common sense will agree with me that your post is one of the most non-responsbile, and probably most stupid post ever.

    I hope you should be mature enough to understand the deadly results of DUI. A junior high kid can understand it, can't you?

    yes, everybody make mistakes. Some bigger, some smaller, some on own's expense, but some on other's expense or LIFE.
     
  24. Denilson

    Denilson Senior Member
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    well, i think if he's convinced that he made a mistake and will never do it gain is ok with me...no one is perfect and please don't claim that you are cuz you're NOT!!!!!he made a poor judgement that he's probably repenting over it by now after reading the "GOOD Doers" postings about how perfect they are and how horrible DUI is...have you changed the radio station or talked onthe cell phone while driving?...alhough not illegal, it has the potential of killing people as well...just because something is notagainst the law doesn't mean is safe for everyone...THIS GOES TO ALL THE " I'M A NICE PERSON WHO WOULD NEVER DO ANYTHING THAT CAN POTENTIALLY HURT SOMEONE"... :p
     
  25. Bruin4Life

    Bruin4Life Senior Member
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    Star23, not everyone that has a dui is responsible for the death of your friend. You can't go the rest of your life condeming everyone with a dui without knowing more to the situation.


    In your post, you're appealing to pity. Those are the least valid arguements. Maybe if you were a good writer, you would've "touched" me, but your recount sounds staged and forced. Your litte story about your friend not getting into med schools because of a MIP sounds like a load of crap. Either you're lying or he lied to you.


    Lastly, to watcha, there's a reason why you get stopped for speeding, even 5 mph over. Although you're reaction time is sharper than someone under the influence, if you knew your physics, you would know it takes longer to come to a stop even if your going 5mph over the speed limit. there is no double standard: either you're speeding or you're not; either your dui or not. both are illegal and both put other's at risk. so unless you're mother teresa or never speeded--you're in no position to judge anyone.
     
  26. moo

    moo 1K Member
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    No one is claiming to be perfect. Yes, people make mistakes. But lemme tell you, I don't have any sympathy for the drunk driver. It's pretty clear to me... you take one sip, and you don't drive. That's the way it's always been for me. I've drank before at parties, but do I ever drive? NO! And I won't ever. Why? Cuz I know it's stupid and it might come back to haunt you. This isn't about screwing up your freshman year GPA-wise or getting a 6 in verbal. Those are mistakes. But this is about drinking and driving. It's not about 'making mistakes' when you get behind the wheel while drunk. If I've even had one drink, I don't drive. Period.

    And oh, I do talk on the cell phone in my car--when I've pulled over.
     
  27. star23

    star23 Senior Member
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    Bruin
    "a dui is responsible for the death of your friend"
    I did not state, nor mean to imply this.

    Drinking and driving IN MY OPINION (obviously not yours) shows disregard for life - not a trait that I THINK a doctor should have. Disagree with me if you so desire, but please don't misquote me.

    "Your litte story about your friend not getting into med schools because of a MIP sounds like a load of crap." WEll, he is my boyfriend and it is true. Sorry to burst your bubble, but believe it sucka.
     
  28. drago

    drago Member
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    bruin4life,
    please stop posting. you're embarrassing the University of California's name. go home.
     
  29. Dylann FMD

    Dylann FMD Senior Member
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    I would disagree with you. I don't think this person realizes the graveness of his/her offense. If this person truly had matured and learned from his/her offense, he/she would realize the graveness of his/her actions. Whining about it and trying to find schools that won't check for it clearly does not indicate this person understands that he/she put the lives of many at risk when getting behind the wheel. I do believe in giving second chances, and he/she will get one . . . in 5 years, when the offense is wiped off of his/her record. Then this person can try and apply for med school once again. Of course, this is provided he/she learns the lesson that DUI is extremely wrong and deserves to be punished, meaning they don't repeat their life-threatening, reckless behavior. And I didn't vote for Bush!
     
  30. Bruin4Life

    Bruin4Life Senior Member
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    star23, I"m sure we all believe that your boyfriend was an innocent bystander when there was an open alcohol container in front of him (dream on!). it's narrow-minded people like you and drago who annoy me. i would agree with you if the guy was asking about a third-time dui or even a 2nd-time dui. one dui doesn't mean he has no regard for human life!


    george bush, our american president, who has influence over not only the 290 million americans in the US, but also have tremendous influence over the world also made a mistake. he also has a dui. you know why? because he's human!

    you're delusional if you think all doctors are saints. i simply think you're uptight, narrow-minded and naive to think this person should not be a doctor because of this ONE incident. give me a friggin' break!

    star23, drago, dylan, life still has many years to come. cross your fingers that your humaness doesn't get you into trouble because as soon as that happens you'll be hung from the tallest tree. you morons need take your saint robes off.
     
  31. drago

    drago Member
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    wow, so you not only condone drinking and driving but also spousal abuse? once again, you are embarrassing the University of California's name. please go home.
     
  32. mongoose

    mongoose Membership Revoked
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    It both saddens and sickens me to think that you self-righteous stuck-up morons are going to be my future co-workers and colleagues. Judge not lest ye be judged.
     
  33. jdub

    jdub Senior Member
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    all i have to say about that you should be . . . you should not be a doctor stuff . . . what a bunch of malarkey. there are committees that do that, and there is also a thing that is called compassion, this deep awareness of the suffering of others with the desire to relieve it, that should apply for all people, the good and the bad, and that physicians, probably most definitely should possess.

    i just do not understand some of the comments, they are just mean, this obviously a serious topic, but we are all human, which implies a lot about every one of us.

    anyhow, here is some food for thought. you know how a lot of residents work a lot of hours, some, like the ones on surgery or anesthesiology rotations can log over 120++ hours in a week, with a little math one knows that there are only 168 hours in a week, not much sleep going on here. also, a lot of these residents drive home after there shifts, and it has been shown that extreme sleep deprivation is pretty much like being intoxicated to varying degrees depending on the severity of the sleep dep.

    are these doctors fit to be doctors? does that fit in to this heated argument somewhere? morals? ethics? who should be or should not be a physician? what mistakes are acceptable, what ones are not?

    i also read this research paper that i got through the aamc news letter about limiting residency hours, it was the may 7th issue, and it had a great research paper that goes over the dangers of the extreme work load that many residents bear. it is a really interesting paper, here is the link www.citizen.org/hrg/PUBLICATIONS/1570.htm

    i sincerely wish the best to all of you. :D
     
  34. Barton

    Barton Senior Member
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    Bottom line: none of our opinions are going to have anything to do with whether this type of offense affects one's application. Let it go.
     

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