Too early?

[hopeful22213]

Apologies if this is not the appropriate forum. I just left a meeting with my (post-bacc) school's pre-med adviser and it left my confidence a little shaken. He felt it was foolish for me to apply this summer and should wait at least another year. I'm not trying to put too much stock in that one opinion (he didn't know what interfolio was) but the other students seem to think highly of him. I'd appreciate you SDNers weighing in.

About me: I'm a non-trad who tripled majored in liberal arts stuff (uGPA ~3.7) then taught for two years in an inner city school [not TFA but something similar] before returning to a school for the pre-reqs. I have a sGPA of 4.0 so far, am currently finishing up orgo 2 and physics 2- both going well. I volunteer at a VA hospital, have shadowed ~20 hours, and did a bunch of non-clinical stuff in college.

The problem is that I'll be applying before finishing all pre-reqs (still need to take chem 2) and really only have those classes as my science coursework. My plan was to take chem 2 in the summer or fall, along with some other probably stuff like biochem and microbio. I'm signed up for a May mcat date and the prep work/diagnostic stuff has been pretty encouraging.

So what are your thoughts? Too early? A worthwhile risk? Definitely apply? Thanks

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[Catalystik]

Apologies if this is not the appropriate forum. I just left a meeting with my (post-bacc) school's pre-med adviser and it left my confidence a little shaken. He felt it was foolish for me to apply this summer and should wait at least another year. I'm not trying to put too much stock in that one opinion (he didn't know what interfolio was) but the other students seem to think highly of him. I'd appreciate you SDNers weighing in.

About me: I'm a non-trad who tripled majored in liberal arts stuff (uGPA ~3.7) then taught for two years in an inner city school [not TFA but something similar] before returning to a school for the pre-reqs. I have a sGPA of 4.0 so far, am currently finishing up orgo 2 and physics 2- both going well. I volunteer at a VA hospital, have shadowed ~20 hours, and did a bunch of non-clinical stuff in college.

The problem is that I'll be applying before finishing all pre-reqs (still need to take chem 2) and really only have those classes as my science coursework. My plan was to take chem 2 in the summer or fall, along with some other probably stuff like biochem and microbio. I'm signed up for a May mcat date and the prep work/diagnostic stuff has been pretty encouraging.

So what are your thoughts? Too early? A worthwhile risk? Definitely apply? Thanks

Can you learn Chem II on your own? Are you a strong intuitive test taker historically?
How many months and hours of VA hospital time will you have?
Can you get to 40-50 hours of shadowing by submission time?
Any unmentioned ECs?

 

[Goro]

Under NO circumstances should you take MCAT before you finsih your pre-reqs!

I think you can apply once all the pre-reqs are done. By the end of the fall, if you haven't gotten any interviews, your fall grades may very well propel you to some interviews in the spring of '13.

Apologies if this is not the appropriate forum. I just left a meeting with my (post-bacc) school's pre-med adviser and it left my confidence a little shaken. He felt it was foolish for me to apply this summer and should wait at least another year. I'm not trying to put too much stock in that one opinion (he didn't know what interfolio was) but the other students seem to think highly of him. I'd appreciate you SDNers weighing in.

About me: I'm a non-trad who tripled majored in liberal arts stuff (uGPA ~3.7) then taught for two years in an inner city school [not TFA but something similar] before returning to a school for the pre-reqs. I have a sGPA of 4.0 so far, am currently finishing up orgo 2 and physics 2- both going well. I volunteer at a VA hospital, have shadowed ~20 hours, and did a bunch of non-clinical stuff in college.

The problem is that I'll be applying before finishing all pre-reqs (still need to take chem 2) and really only have those classes as my science coursework. My plan was to take chem 2 in the summer or fall, along with some other probably stuff like biochem and microbio. I'm signed up for a May mcat date and the prep work/diagnostic stuff has been pretty encouraging.

So what are your thoughts? Too early? A worthwhile risk? Definitely apply? Thanks

 

[hopeful22213]

Thank you both for the prompt responses.

Can you learn Chem II on your own? Are you a strong intuitive test taker historically?
How many months and hours of VA hospital time will you have?
Can you get to 40-50 hours of shadowing by submission time?
Any unmentioned ECs?

I've been at the VA for 3 months and 60-70 hours. By June, it'll be 7 months and ~150-200 hours. I also am a research assistant in a plant genetics lab with about 15 hours a week of research since November. As for other EC's, I did free after school tutoring when I was a teacher, I held important leadership positions at my school- stuff like chairperson of the personnel committee responsible for hiring and firing, etc- and did several things through high school and college with organizations for disabled children and adults.

I can probably get more shadowing hours, but hitting 50 would be difficult. It's not a time constraint as much as just finding doctors to let me shadow them.
I'd quote you here Goro but don't know how to quote multiple posts together.

Chem II doesn't worry me because of the nature of my post-bacc program, which effectively condenses most of chem II into chem I, follows chem I with both orgo classes, then finishes the series with a "chem II" that is more like analytical chemistry. As a result, I've already covered most of the major topics typically covered in chem II and feel pretty comfortable with them.

I am historically a strong test taker, though everyone on these boards feels that way. I took a free diagnostic before any of the pre-reqs and got a 26 (PS-9, VR-12, BS-5) Since taking most of the classes I've begun prepping for the test and from my work so far I feel confident in a score at least in the low 30's. At this point I'm confident in a 31+ and hopefully higher.

I realize I'm applying on the early side. I just want to know if it is a worthwhile risk to take. If the consensus is that it is foolish, I'll have to reconsider my timeline. Thanks again for all your advice.

 

[Catalystik]

So what are your thoughts? Too early? A worthwhile risk? Definitely apply?

While I would generally express a concern over brevity of clinical experience, as a nontradtional applicant, especially one involved in a TFA-like program, I think you'll be cut some slack and not be held to the usual standard. Be sure your application makes it clear you didn't just develop in interest in medicine 7 months ago though. I think your research involvement will be fine. Your past leadership, teaching, and nonmedical community service involvement will serve you well.

So, due to your comments about your understanding of Chem II material, assuming a decent MCAT score and that you can gather the needed LORs, it seems to me it would be worthwhile risk for you to apply this coming season. I also suggest you continue with the VA volunteering through the application cycle (3-4 hours a week would be fine), mentioning it in update letters, Secondary applications, and during interview conversations (to be on the safe side). Try to make physician contacts during your volunteer time so you can ask about office-based shadowing opportunities. Ask your own doc, docs of parents, physician parents of freinds, too.

What were your advisor's concerns?

 

[hopeful22213]

Catalystik, because we don't tell you often enough: you are wonderful. I really appreciate the feedback.

What were your advisor's concerns?

The advisor thought that with such limited science coursework under my belt- 7 pre-reqs plus 2 non BCPM classes as an undergrad- it would look like I was trying to get away with the bare minimum. He made no mention of the limited clinical experience, which had been my primary concern and what I thought was my app's biggest weakness.

I was long interested in medicine but thought I lacked the scientific aptitude, but changed my mind after telling kids from impossibly difficult backgrounds that they could achieve anything with hard work. I hope to convey that in my PS and any eventual secondaries. I began taking the post bacc classes while still teaching and so found it difficult to commit time to clinical volunteering without it taking away from what I was trying to do for my students, thus the short duration so far.

If it makes a difference, I'm a VA resident originally from Illinois and planning to apply to mission/service oriented schools in the same tradition as Loyola and Georgetown.

 

[plumhill]

If you take some of the AAMC practice tests and are able to consistently score at a 31+, then I'd go for it. But there really isn't any harm to waiting a year and making yourself and even stronger applicant!

 

[Catalystik]

The advisor thought that with such limited science coursework under my belt- 7 pre-reqs plus 2 non BCPM classes as an undergrad- it would look like I was trying to get away with the bare minimum.

2)I was long interested in medicine but thought I lacked the scientific aptitude, but changed my mind after telling kids from impossibly difficult backgrounds that they could achieve anything with hard work. I hope to convey that in my PS and any eventual secondaries.

3) If it makes a difference, I'm a VA resident originally from Illinois and planning to apply to mission/service oriented schools in the same tradition as Loyola and Georgetown.

JMO, but if your BCPM GPA was on the low side, I think there would be a concern that you might not handle upper-level Bio well, but in your situation that does not apply, and you have nothing to prove. I'd still be sure to list the future planned coursework that you mentioned and maybe a bit more after you check on extra requirements and recommendations of the schools you plan to apply to. After fall term, you can let schools know your grades in update letters, where permitted.

2) This could be a way cool story.

3) Sounds good.

 

[alexrgross]

If you take some of the AAMC practice tests and are able to consistently score at a 31+, then I'd go for it. But there really isn't any harm to waiting a year and making yourself and even stronger applicant!

This...you have academic promise and great ECs,,,a MCAT >32 is what will transform your very interesting story into a very succssful app

 

[flodhi1]

If you take some of the AAMC practice tests and are able to consistently score at a 31+, then I'd go for it. But there really isn't any harm to waiting a year and making yourself and even stronger applicant!

+1

The advisor thought that with such limited science coursework under my belt- 7 pre-reqs plus 2 non BCPM classes as an undergrad- it would look like I was trying to get away with the bare minimum. He made no mention of the limited clinical experience, which had been my primary concern and what I thought was my app's biggest weakness.

If it makes a difference, I'm a VA resident originally from Illinois and planning to apply to mission/service oriented schools in the same tradition as Loyola and Georgetown.

I think your advisor has a good point, applying with around 30 credits? of Science courses to medical school does seem like a slight risk. Medical schools tend to like to see at least 2 years of heavy science course load with excellent grades. Even then I agree with what everyone stated, a strong MCAT score could possibly overcome any doubts but there is no guarantee. Your diagnostic score seems very promising. Looks like you got the toughest MCAT section (VR) figured out. I think with a thorough study plan you could very easily score > 32 which is a wonderful score. Make sure to look into SN2ed study guide which can possibly be condensed.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=623898

I'm a VA resident too and from my experience with interviewing at a VA medical school and meeting faculty members at others they really do want all pre-reqs completed prior to applying. However as I stated it might not hurt just depends on your MCAT score.

Here are more details about pre-reqs and some basic guidelines that you might already be aware of.

http://www.vcu.edu/uc/prehealth/VCUUC-Pre-Medicine.htm

To answer the main question in your initial post I think it's a worthwhile risk if only you had more clinical experience I would have told you to definitely apply. If you wait 1 year, gain more academic and clinical experience you would be a very strong applicant possibly even for top schools. Either way I wish you the best of luck

 

[bigloley]

I think you have a great application but I would agree with your advisor. I think you should finish your pre-reqs, take the MCAT (delay taking it until you are getting your desired scores on practice tests) and get some more upper level science courses. Also, more clinical experience would be a great boost.

Note: You will probably get in somewhere if you apply very broadly and early - you have a very interesting story and your grades are excellent. But if you have a specific choice of schools I think you should delay your application for a year. If just getting into ANY medical school is fine for you, then apply this year and save yourself a year. But trust me, reapplying is horrible and very costly - I think you would benefit from 1 more year of strengthening your application.

 

[shinbeats]

I'm going to have to agree with Catalystic, bigloley and flodhi1 here. Your advisor is right and knows what he's talking about . I think that you might get into a low tier medical school even with the weak clinical experience and light science course history but I wouldn't do that. If you played it smart and waited a year you could be a good contender for top 25 or at least top 50 medical schools. In the general scheme of things especially with such a long career in medicine I would rather wait, build my application and get into a top-tier well known med school than settle for some low-tier med school in a crappy area. In my opinion you're in between "too early" and "A worthwhile risk" just depends on if you want the best or just want to settle for anything

 

[hopeful22213]

I appreciate all the feedback. This site is such a valuable resource, it's a shame more people aren't familiar with it.

You all have given me some serious pause [which in turn has given me added pause. I can't decide if I'm a little crazy for letting an anonymous message board help shape a decision on how to spend at least a full year of my life] and I'm now seriously considering putting off the application by a year. I've tried to leave ego out of this and not focus on 'prestige' (I was a stellar high school student, national merit and all that jazz but went to a decidedly less competitive state school because I loved a program they had) but I'm encouraged that some of you think with an extra year I could be at least somewhat competitive at top 25 type schools.

On the plus side, I am confident in my test taking abilities and with the extra time I could improve my content knowledge and hopefully push my score up from something in the low 30's to something even higher, maybe 35+. I actually took another practice test yesterday and got 30- PS-8 BS-8 BR-14, so with time that could be a major strength.

On the negative side- beyond just another year of waiting- financially it might be more difficult to support myself on such low earning having now burned through most of my savings.

So I guess my question is how much of a disadvantage are you at as a re-applicant other than just the wasted time and money?

What if I were to take the mcat in may, wait to see what my score was and if it is high enough (say 33+?) split the difference and only apply EDP to one of my in state schools so there is the chance of getting in this app cycle but a lot less time and money invested in the process?

Thanks for all your help.

 

[flodhi1]

OP I hate to say this but these hypothetical questions will probably end up confusing you more. You're going to keep asking what if I do this or that? I think you should put your full focus on the MCAT and your studies right now. Once you actually get your MCAT score then we can actually talk about a plan for you. To answer your question EDP would be a smart move but honestly if you want to just get into a medical school you will absolutely have to apply early and broadly (>25 schools?) which will cost you a couple grand. Being a re-applicant is not necessarily a bad thing it shows commitment/perseverance. The main downfall is the emotional and financial toll that reapplying leaves you with, it can be a humbling experience though. A lot of re-applicants get accepted but again another down fall to being a re-applicant is that medical schools expect you to make changes and strengthen your application which will lead you to possibly be in an even more financial strain for another year. In the end though you should truly follow your heart and not some anonymous forum.

 

[Catalystik]

So I guess my question is how much of a disadvantage are you at as a re-applicant other than just the wasted time and money?

There is also the stress consideration, which is not insignificant.

To answer the question, there are some schools that discourage/refuse reapplications, but the vast majority will not look at you negatively so long as you've made substantial improvements in your application since they last saw it.