Ukdavis23

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I'm not super satisfied with the school that I'm attending. First year student and I understand its only year 1, but I don't think the faculty teaches particularly well and not particularly to the style that I am used to. I've taken classes at 5 different undergrad schools so I consider myself a decent judge and what good and bad teaching is and I would say the teaching at my current school is far worse than I expected coming into it. I just wanted to gauge what the teaching styles at other schools are like (I'm not going to put my own school on this forum). I was wondering if there are schools you attend with what you would consider good teachers, not death by powerpoint, hands on, perhaps in a smaller class setting, and with a semester long systems curiculum as opposed to a block systems curriculum.
 

DocVapor

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I'm not super satisfied with the school that I'm attending. First year student and I understand its only year 1, but I don't think the faculty teaches particularly well and not particularly to the style that I am used to. I've taken classes at 5 different undergrad schools so I consider myself a decent judge and what good and bad teaching is and I would say the teaching at my current school is far worse than I expected coming into it. I just wanted to gauge what the teaching styles at other schools are like (I'm not going to put my own school on this forum). I was wondering if there are schools you attend with what you would consider good teachers, not death by powerpoint, hands on, perhaps in a smaller class setting, and with a semester long systems curiculum as opposed to a block systems curriculum.
Yup, too late to transfer barring some horrendous medical condition or extreme circumstance for you or your immediate family. Your best bet is to make of it what you can and not dream about what could have been.

Also, pretty much every medical school mostly consists of poor lecturers with a few fantastic ones sprinkled in, so the grass isn't really greener anywhere else.
 

0ncogene

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Also, pretty much every medical school mostly consists of poor lecturers with a few fantastic ones sprinkled in, so the grass isn't really greener anywhere else.
You just have to adapt and learn the best you can from outside sources if you have time. Most of your professors either have research or clinic duties on the side, so putting a lot of effort in their powerpoint and making their lecture interesting is low on their priority list. They present the material, and you're expected to learn them. My school have professors with such thick accent, and most of us were only able to understand 25% of what they were saying (not even exaggerating here). We brought it up to the admin, and one professor was asked to upload additional notes online to clarify his lectures. Wait until you start rotations, some attendings don't even teach.
 
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I've realized this problem becomes a lot less important if you make sure your school has no/little attendance policy...
 
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SLC

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I'm not super satisfied with the school that I'm attending. First year student and I understand its only year 1, but I don't think the faculty teaches particularly well and not particularly to the style that I am used to. I've taken classes at 5 different undergrad schools so I consider myself a decent judge and what good and bad teaching is and I would say the teaching at my current school is far worse than I expected coming into it. I just wanted to gauge what the teaching styles at other schools are like (I'm not going to put my own school on this forum). I was wondering if there are schools you attend with what you would consider good teachers, not death by powerpoint, hands on, perhaps in a smaller class setting, and with a semester long systems curiculum as opposed to a block systems curriculum.
RVUCOM not panning out eh?

I hear that people actually like that school, for the most part.

Stick it out, you won't be allowed to transfer.
 

Promethean

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You are under the mistaken impression that you are in medical school to be taught.

You are an adult learner now, and expected to teach yourself. No spoon-feeding. That should have been over in college, but that isn't the way of things anymore. You have a library. You have a syllabus and hopefully some written objectives to which you may refer. The internet exists, as it didn't for previous generations. Dissection videos on youtube. Several great apps on the phone in your pocket. The resources available to help you grasp the content before you is more than anyone has ever had access ever before.

Professors and lectures are to give you the broad concepts, an outline of what you are expected to know. They are there for you to refer to when you run into something that you don't understand... after you've tried to figure it out for yourself.

None of the material taught in medical school is hard to understand. It only requires many hours per day of dedicated study in order to learn because there is SO much of it, not because it is complex.

If this isn't the learning experience that you want, you aren't likely to find something better at a different school. If you do embrace it, you will be surprised at how much you can learn, and how quickly.

All that said... I need to study. =)
 

meliora27

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I've always heard that transferring medical schools barring any extreme condition is virtually impossible.

However, I know 2 people who transferred, neither of which had an extreme situation.

Are there any stats on transfer applicants and their success rate?
 

BorntobeDO?

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I'm not super satisfied with the school that I'm attending. First year student and I understand its only year 1, but I don't think the faculty teaches particularly well and not particularly to the style that I am used to. I've taken classes at 5 different undergrad schools so I consider myself a decent judge and what good and bad teaching is and I would say the teaching at my current school is far worse than I expected coming into it. I just wanted to gauge what the teaching styles at other schools are like (I'm not going to put my own school on this forum). I was wondering if there are schools you attend with what you would consider good teachers, not death by powerpoint, hands on, perhaps in a smaller class setting, and with a semester long systems curiculum as opposed to a block systems curriculum.
I can understand not liking the teaching style. There are certainly professors who I am not too thrilled with at my school. But who cares, its not their teaching style that matters, its MY learning style. Doesn't matter how good or bad they are if I can't find a way to retain info and retain it fast I will sink like an intertube with a fat guy on it that just got punctured.

Btw I wish I just had a single system block at a time curriculum, so maybe we can switch? You can have my integrated blocks, while I happily self teach myself at your school. But I suspect your problems would not get better by having to focus on every subject rather than just 1.

I agree with you on class size, it really bothers me more than I thought it would having 250ish students (+100 masters students in MGA, dolla bill ya'll). I wish I was in a smaller class so I could get to know people better. But who cares, I will just try to make sure I am not the guy repeating first year/kicked out...
 
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cylondoctor

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Bad med school is better than no med school. Sorry, nthis is by no means an attempt at trolling, but you are in a us med school, there are worse situations.
 
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user3

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I've always heard that transferring medical schools barring any extreme condition is virtually impossible.

However, I know 2 people who transferred, neither of which had an extreme situation.

Are there any stats on transfer applicants and their success rate?
That doesn't surprise me. I would think that if schools had empty M3 spots, they would rather fill them than go without the tuition...
 

Life Eternal

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I bet most medical schools only have few really good lecturers. The rest will be medicore to terrible.
 

NurWollen

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I bet most medical schools only have few really good lecturers. The rest will be medicore to terrible.
This might be true. Although I will say that even if a professor is a sub-par lecturer, they are (at least at my school) mostly really nice people who will help you out if you go see them and who are eager to see students succed.
 

BorntobeDO?

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...
 
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wjs010

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Sounds hyperbolic.

Pretty sure the school would be put on probation with a 20% attrition rate.
And I don't think that would be a great business model for a DO school.
 
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I'm not super satisfied with the school that I'm attending. First year student and I understand its only year 1, but I don't think the faculty teaches particularly well and not particularly to the style that I am used to. I've taken classes at 5 different undergrad schools so I consider myself a decent judge and what good and bad teaching is and I would say the teaching at my current school is far worse than I expected coming into it. I just wanted to gauge what the teaching styles at other schools are like (I'm not going to put my own school on this forum). I was wondering if there are schools you attend with what you would consider good teachers, not death by powerpoint, hands on, perhaps in a smaller class setting, and with a semester long systems curiculum as opposed to a block systems curriculum.
Actually its not too late to transfer, its too early most schools will not take you after 1 year of study most schools will take you after you finish the basic sciences and past the first part of the Comlex and have LOR from the Dean. The reason for this is because the curriculum during the basic sciences is set up differently among the schools so bringing someone in after 1 year of study could be difficult, someone could be thriving in one school and then struggle somewhere else. Anyway you got to meet with the Dean and tell him you want to transfer somewhere else, if says okay then you might have a chance going somewhere else assuming you got good grades and can get some good references from faculty.
 

ortnakas

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I firmly believe that the first few weeks suck everywhere. Hang in there, OP!

Actually its not too late to transfer, its too early most schools will not take you after 1 year of study most schools will take you after you finish the basic sciences and past the first part of the Comlex and have LOR from the Dean. The reason for this is because the curriculum during the basic sciences is set up differently among the schools so bringing someone in after 1 year of study could be difficult, someone could be thriving in one school and then struggle somewhere else. Anyway you got to meet with the Dean and tell him you want to transfer somewhere else, if says okay then you might have a chance going somewhere else assuming you got good grades and can get some good references from faculty.
OP is a few weeks in and unhappy with the pre-clinical curriculum and teaching. Even if he/she could transfer after taking the COMLEX and all of the first two years (which is theoretically possible but not easy or likely), it wouldn't really solve the issue.
 
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I firmly believe that the first few weeks suck everywhere. Hang in there, OP!



OP is a few weeks in and unhappy with the pre-clinical curriculum and teaching. Even if he/she could transfer after taking the COMLEX and all of the first two years (which is theoretically possible but not easy or likely), it wouldn't really solve the issue.
Most schools do not take transfers after the first year, its very hard to transfer to another medical school after the first year, its possible after finishing the basic sciences, someone at my school did it after finishing the first two years, and did his clinical education somewhere else, but after one year its tough. I think whoever it is needs to tough it out, maybe find a club or seek someone in student counseling to make the best out of his situation. There are differences in how different schools teach the first two years, even among branch campuses of schools.

Transferring between medical schools requires the support of the Dean, and you will need a really good reason to do this, like family issues or health reasons, serious issues, telling the Dean you are not happy with curriculum is not going to make him very happy.
 
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You are under the mistaken impression that you are in medical school to be taught.

You are an adult learner now, and expected to teach yourself. No spoon-feeding. That should have been over in college, but that isn't the way of things anymore. You have a library. You have a syllabus and hopefully some written objectives to which you may refer. The internet exists, as it didn't for previous generations. Dissection videos on youtube. Several great apps on the phone in your pocket. The resources available to help you grasp the content before you is more than anyone has ever had access ever before.

Professors and lectures are to give you the broad concepts, an outline of what you are expected to know. They are there for you to refer to when you run into something that you don't understand... after you've tried to figure it out for yourself.

None of the material taught in medical school is hard to understand. It only requires many hours per day of dedicated study in order to learn because there is SO much of it, not because it is complex.

If this isn't the learning experience that you want, you aren't likely to find something better at a different school. If you do embrace it, you will be surprised at how much you can learn, and how quickly.

All that said... I need to study. =)
You're not wrong, but to me, these aren't very good points for any school that has mandatory attendance (or tons of labs) which waste 50% or more of the day every day during the week. Regardless, I agree the OP has some pretty warped expectations. Small class sizes in medical school? Who cares.

I say that because I realize now I would prefer a school with very little attendance and a prosected anatomy lab so I'd have more time to actually actively learn everything than diddling around playing "my little doctor" during the pre-clinical years.

[EDIT] Tried to make this a little less toxic.
 
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ChiTownBHawks

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You're not wrong, but these seem to me to be a dumb thing to say for any school that has mandatory attendance (or tons of labs) which wastes 50% or more of your day every day during the week, but I agree the OP has some pretty warped expectations. Small class sizes in medical school? Who cares. I realize now I would prefer a school with very little attendance and a prosected anatomy lab so I'd have more time to actually learn things than diddling around playing "my little doctor" during pre-clinical years.
That would of been pure heaven.
 

Promethean

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You're not wrong, but to me, these aren't very good points for any school that has mandatory attendance (or tons of labs) which waste 50% or more of the day every day during the week. Regardless, I agree the OP has some pretty warped expectations. Small class sizes in medical school? Who cares.

I say that because I realize now I would prefer a school with very little attendance and a prosected anatomy lab so I'd have more time to actually actively learn everything than diddling around playing "my little doctor" during the pre-clinical years.

[EDIT] Tried to make this a little less toxic.
Well, I don't know of any schools that hide their attendance policies from applicants. Mandatory lecture can be avoided by applying only to places that have the didactic style you prefer.

I hear you, though . My advice to OP was based on the truth that the grass is always greener where you water it. People at my school complained that our cadavers were partially prosected for us... at least at first. Now I have heard the same folks say that the bodies should have been fully prosected so that they wouldn't have to waste time on dissection.

Other students at my school are on the PBL pathway, and they are distressed that they use a virtual cadaver for their anatomy, saying that their practicals would be so much easier if they were done on cadavers. Meanwhile, the cadaver lab students are jealous of PBL.

All this means is that med students are a very stressed population, who are eager to transfer some of their anxiety about their situation onto whatever target they may find. It is a natural human coping mechanism. It should usually be given no more import than that. No solution will ever suit all of us, all of the time.

Sent from my SM-N910P using Tapatalk
 
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hallowmann

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Actually its not too late to transfer, its too early most schools will not take you after 1 year of study most schools will take you after you finish the basic sciences and past the first part of the Comlex and have LOR from the Dean. The reason for this is because the curriculum during the basic sciences is set up differently among the schools so bringing someone in after 1 year of study could be difficult, someone could be thriving in one school and then struggle somewhere else. Anyway you got to meet with the Dean and tell him you want to transfer somewhere else, if says okay then you might have a chance going somewhere else assuming you got good grades and can get some good references from faculty.
I think this would be a mistake. No matter what school you go to, transferring after pre-clinicals because you don't like the pre-clinical professors/lecturers is pointless. You know as well as I do that clinicals are nothing like pre-clinicals. Not only are you no longer being taught in a purely lecture setting, but you're dealing with completely different people. What would be the point of transferring out because you don't like lecturers, when you'll (almost) never see them again in 3rd/4th year anyways?

Now if you have to leave for family or geographic reasons, it may be possible after taking Step/Level 1, with the Dean's approval as you mention.
 
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user3

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Well, I don't know of any schools that hide their attendance policies from applicants. Mandatory lecture can be avoided by applying only to places that have the didactic style you prefer.
mandatory lecture often sounds logical on paper or in a presentation, but a problem is that no one can truly understand the utter drain and time waste of mandatory lectures in medical school until they have actually experienced it. And by then, it is too late for those people to do anything about.
 
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I think this would be a mistake. No matter what school you go to, transferring after pre-clinicals because you don't like the pre-clinical professors/lecturers is pointless. You know as well as I do that clinicals are nothing like pre-clinicals. Not only are you no longer being taught in a purely lecture setting, but you're dealing with completely different people. What would be the point of transferring out because you don't like lecturers, when you'll (almost) never see them again in 3rd/4th year anyways?

Now if you have to leave for family or geographic reasons, it may be possible after taking Step/Level 1, with the Dean's approval as you mention.
You do have a point, given how things are set up at DO schools, you really never see the people you worked with from the first two years again in your clinical years, the clinical years are completely different from your basic science years in that you deal with different people, you never see your professors from basic sciences again and good number of your classmates you pretty much never see again either, you pretty much are limited to communicating with them on Facebook and email and you might run into them on graduation day, but after year 2, you see a whole bunch of different people. The experience of my friends at MD schools is different since geographically they are usually in the same place all four years, my cousin was in a hospital across the street from where she had her lectures her first two years and she always used to see her professors and classmates from her freshman year of medical school throughout her four years in medical school, there was a lot more continuity in her education than in mine or in any DO student.

I actually knew a student at my school who did transfer after the second year its possible.
 
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SLC

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That would of been pure heaven.
That was pure heaven. SOMA has optional attendance for all but OPP and Medical Skills, and the anatomy lab is prosection (which is done by those students interested in dissection).

Looking back, I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't think Anatomy sunk anyone in my class, it was efficient and people could spend all their time there learning rather than scraping fat.
 

kenjixshadow

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That was pure heaven. SOMA has optional attendance for all but OPP and Medical Skills, and the anatomy lab is prosection (which is done by those students interested in dissection).

Looking back, I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't think Anatomy sunk anyone in my class, it was efficient and people could spend all their time there learning rather than scraping fat.
You're so lucky. :sick: Anatomy lab dissection is a huge waste of time. I was feed up with cleaning out fat just to see one structure/artery/nerve...and eventually destroyed it the next lab for another...
 

NurWollen

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You're so lucky. :sick: Anatomy lab dissection is a huge waste of time. I was feed up with cleaning out fat just to see one structure/artery/nerve...and eventually destroyed it the next lab for another...
Yep. Anatomy lab was a huge waste of time and more importantly energy. We'd get done at 5pm on anatomy days and then I'd go home and shower and eat and by then it was 6:30 or 7:00 and I was so tired I'd have a really hard time studying.

Prosection>>>dissection
 
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NurWollen

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mandatory lecture often sounds logical on paper or in a presentation, but a problem is that no one can truly understand the utter drain and time waste of mandatory lectures in medical school until they have actually experienced it. And by then, it is too late for those people to do anything about.
It's ironic then that the classes which either had mandatory attendance or gave us a hard time for not coming to class were the classes taught by physicians rather than PhDs.
 
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ortnakas

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It's ironic then that the classes which either had mandatory attendance or gave us a hard time for not coming to class were the classes taught by physicians rather than PhDs.
Same at my school. All lectures are mandatory, but the physicians care far more about enforcement than the PhDs. (PBL so the only basic science lectures are pretty early on, but still).
 
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Ukdavis23

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Thanks for the information. I don't know much exams at other schools but are exams mostly designed to test you on minute details that aren't necessarily high yield material for the boards or are there other schools out there that focus exams more on high yield, general overarching concept material that you need to know for the boards. My school focuses a lot on minute details and tricking you with multiple answers similar to board level questions. I was wondering if this is what all medical schools do or are there schools that focus on getting you to understand the general information on tests instead of writing the board level questions that don't necessarily cover the high yield board material
 

AlbinoHawk DO

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With 5 undergrads have you considered the problem might be your adaptability?
I technically attended 5 undergrads. One from when I got my BA and 4 CCs from Post-Bacc. I did it because of class availability, so it might not be OP's fault.
 

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In my 15+ years of being on Faculty, I think only 2-3 people have ever transferred out, and maybe 2 transferred in.
 
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I knew one student at my school who transferred to a school in the Midwest, I have no idea why he wanted to leave Arizona to live in freezing Midwestern winters. For the most part unless your Dean is willing to write you a glowing recommendation letter, its pretty hard to transfer. Its relatively doable to transfer from year 2 to year 3, its hard to transfer from year 1 to year 2.
 

simbad8

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Thanks for the information. I don't know much exams at other schools but are exams mostly designed to test you on minute details that aren't necessarily high yield material for the boards or are there other schools out there that focus exams more on high yield, general overarching concept material that you need to know for the boards. My school focuses a lot on minute details and tricking you with multiple answers similar to board level questions. I was wondering if this is what all medical schools do or are there schools that focus on getting you to understand the general information on tests instead of writing the board level questions that don't necessarily cover the high yield board material
Yes. Probably cause most lecturers are PhDs who don't care about your boards.
 
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Yes. Probably cause most lecturers are PhDs who don't care about your boards.
You forgot that its going to be the Dean of your school and the one where you want to transfer to that will decide if you can transfer so yes your Board score matters a lot, and having a good relationship with your Dean can do wonders for transferring.

Most Phd Lecturers are immigrants from non English speaking backgrounds at most DO schools and are personas non grata. They might write you a letter of recommendation, but you need the support of the Dean of your school and a final approval of the Dean of the school where you want to transfer for it to be successful. I know one student who did it.
 

ortnakas

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Most Phd Lecturers are immigrants from non English speaking backgrounds at most DO schools and are personas non grata.
I've seen you post this in multiple threads and I'm not sure this is a fair generalization. 0% of our faculty (PhD or DO/MD) are "immigrants from non English speaking backgrounds." I don't have a big sample size, but I didn't see any at other places I interviewed either.
 
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I've seen you post this in multiple threads and I'm not sure this is a fair generalization. 0% of our faculty (PhD or DO/MD) are "immigrants from non English speaking backgrounds." I don't have a big sample size, but I didn't see any at other places I interviewed either.
Maybe not at your school, but at my school I got a fair number of them, my favorite professor is a double emigre, he lived in two European countries before coming to the USA.

You seem to say it like there is something wrong with that, my parents are immigrants who came from non English speaking backgrounds. I love to meet people from different parts of the world.

You mentioned you went to Seton Hill, maybe that is why, a lot of the DO schools near major urban metro areas get more international faculty.

And I said not all of them are foreign born, but a good number are, many are also younger faculty members that are starting out early in their careers.
 
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ortnakas

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I'm okay with them-- had my fair share of at undergrad institutions, and some were among the best professors I've had. My apologies if I accidentally implied otherwise. That said in SDN and other circles, ESL professors are often thought of as a negative-- cultural diversity is great but not understanding your lecturer is rough.

Anyway, we're way off topic-- I apologize to the mods and to OP.
 

simbad8

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Maybe not at your school, but at my school I got a fair number of them, my favorite professor is a double emigre, he lived in two European countries before coming to the USA.

You seem to say it like there is something wrong with that, my parents are immigrants who came from non English speaking backgrounds. I love to meet people from different parts of the world.

You mentioned you went to Seton Hill, maybe that is why, a lot of the DO schools near major urban metro areas get more international faculty.

And I said not all of them are foreign born, but a good number are, many are also younger faculty members that are starting out early in their careers.
We only have a few ESL professors, they're definitely a minority and some of them are on the better side of the scale of teaching lol just think of Najeeb. Anyways, I was referring to the fact that majority of PhDs like to test over minute detail that is not really board relevant.