Too many Online Electives - Bad Look for Residency?

[CharlieFoxtrot20]

Does the number of online electives you're taking as opposed to in-person rotations look bad for residency competitiveness? I'm considering another couple weeks of taking online electives vs in-person but concerned it will look bad to residency programs if I'm taking too many online electives.

Are people still taking online electives?

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[phagocytosis41]

Yes. If you have the option for in-person then go with that.

any particular reason? what if the online status doesn't show, especially for MS4 electives

 

[Chibucks15]

There is zero way that any residency will know if you have the option for in person or not. Anyone who says otherwise is talking out their ass. This year is jacked up everyone knows it. Try to do as much as you can in person but don’t stretch it to nonsense rotations.

basically do as many in person spots as you can cuz it’ll make you better come intern year

 

[getfat]

Good question for your dean or clinic coordinator.

Anyone who says otherwise is talking out their ass.

I know personally my transcript and MSPE will note which of my classes were online. See attachment for how it is presented. Electives for fourth year will have similar verb-age. Will every school follow this trend and report online clerkships? No Idea

Will it be a detriment to your chances? Not sure I'll defer to some else smarter than me. But I would have a game plan to discuss it when it gets brought up.

As someone that searched in multiple states via multiple sources (clinician nexus, VSAS, school) and the earliest i could get back to clinic was august. Only a few people could get back to clinic in July.

Barring another shut down, I don't see why anyone would have an issue w/ online electives until September or October.

 

[Chibucks15]

Good question for your dean or clinic coordinator.



I know personally my transcript and MSPE will note which of my classes were online. See attachment for how it is presented. Electives for fourth year will have similar verb-age. Will every school follow this trend and report online clerkships? No Idea
View attachment 317291

Will it be a detriment to your chances? Not sure I'll defer to some else smarter than me. But I would have a game plan to discuss it when it gets brought up.

As someone that searched in multiple states via multiple sources (clinician nexus, VSAS, school) and the earliest i could get back to clinic was august. Only a few people could get back to clinic in July.

Barring another shut down, I don't see why anyone would have an issue w/ online electives until September or October.

What I meant was that anyone who said residency programs would know if you CHOSE to do online vs in person is just nonsense. Sure if it says you have virtual rotations it could be just forced to do it, which again, is understandable given the current state of the world and strongly doubt it would change anyone’s chances since it’s out of anyone’s control

 

[getfat]

What I meant was that anyone who said residency programs would know if you CHOSE to do online vs in person is just nonsense.

Agreed up until a certain point. If you're going into November w/o a single in person rotation since march. I think people can assume that you chose online electives compared to in-person. Whether it was because you didn't feel safe returning to a hospital/clinic (or to protect your loved ones).

Would an interviewer browse through your app to find you did mostly online rotations? Not sure everyone would have the time to do that but i'm sure at least one would. It's a talking point for an interview.

All i'm saying for OP is I think it's important to be prepared for it. It would be good to be able to explain why you had online rotations at any point and know every aspect of your application.

 

[phagocytosis41]

It doesn't matter if it's in anyone's control or not. This is akin to saying that programs won't penalize the applicant who failed PE and is unable to reschedule a retake in time for ERAS (truly out of the applicant's control) and they would pick someone who hasn't taken PE over that person.
PDs already assume that DO rotations are suboptimal in a normal cycle, and they will pick someone with in-person rotations regardless of whether or not they have a choice in picking.

Does it show if the elective was online? I know getfat's pediatrics rotation is shown as online, but I don't think my school shows if its online or not.. I could be wrong though. But honestly with COVID-19 won't most programs be understanding that you couldn't do many in person rotations? I'm doing 3 in person electives in my field despite of COVID, but I totally understand why someone wouldn't want to or be able to.

 

[Chibucks15]

Agreed up until a certain point. If you're going into November w/o a single in person rotation since march. I think people can assume that you chose online electives compared to in-person. Whether it was because you didn't feel safe returning to a hospital/clinic (or to protect your loved ones).

Would an interviewer browse through your app to find you did mostly online rotations? Not sure everyone would have the time to do that but i'm sure at least one would. It's a talking point for an interview.

All i'm saying for OP is I think it's important to be prepared for it. It would be good to be able to explain why you had online rotations at any point and know every aspect of your application.

Oh I don't disagree on that point. I'm just saying if you had one or two online rotations it isn't like the program will immediately torch your app or anything

 

[Neopolymath]

Good question for your dean or clinic coordinator.



I know personally my transcript and MSPE will note which of my classes were online. See attachment for how it is presented. Electives for fourth year will have similar verb-age. Will every school follow this trend and report online clerkships? No Idea
View attachment 317291

Will it be a detriment to your chances? Not sure I'll defer to some else smarter than me. But I would have a game plan to discuss it when it gets brought up.

As someone that searched in multiple states via multiple sources (clinician nexus, VSAS, school) and the earliest i could get back to clinic was august. Only a few people could get back to clinic in July.

Barring another shut down, I don't see why anyone would have an issue w/ online electives until September or October.

Our school is dumb as **** for doing this and I have no idea why they did this. Why bring attention to this???

 

[Goro]

Does the number of online electives you're taking as opposed to in-person rotations look bad for residency competitiveness? I'm considering another couple weeks of taking online electives vs in-person but concerned it will look bad to residency programs if I'm taking too many online electives.

Are people still taking online electives?

@NotAProgDirector thoughts?
@LunaOri
@Maimonides1
@Mad Jack

 

[Maimonides1]

@NotAProgDirector thoughts?
@LunaOri
@Maimonides1
@Mad Jack

PDs are always looking for hardworking, easy to work with, well trained students..
Nobody is going to pick on your rotations if it was virtual or in person in the time of serious pandemic while we are watching our colleagues getting sick and dying one after the other..,
Be affable and capable and get ready for getting battle tested!
We are dealing with the same issues with residents too.., their serious hands- on education is getting impacted in a major way.. during these unreal times!!

You all need to “Always appreciate the wise @Goro advise”

 

[phagocytosis41]

PDs are always looking for hardworking, easy to work with, well trained students..
Nobody is going to pick on your rotations if it was virtual or in person in the time of serious pandemic while we are watching our colleagues getting sick and dying one after the other..,
Be affable and capable and get ready for getting battle tested!
We are dealing with the same issues with residents too.., their serious hands- on education is getting impacted in a major way.. during these unreal times!!

You all need to “Always appreciate the wise @Goro advise”

All Hail Mr. Goro!

 

[NotAProgDirector]

This is a really hard question to answer.

Clearly, everyone who is applying for residency this year who was in school will have some disruption to their normal experience. This mess really exploded right at the beginning of February, so I expect all students will have 4 months of virtual education -- Feb to May. Many US MD medical schools started getting students back on rotations starting in May or June. Some may have started later, due to resources and the local COVID activity.

So some amount of virtual learning is expected. But I do think that some programs will start to worry if students have too much virtual learning. There's only so much you can learn that way (although even that depends on what the virtual learning was). At some point, programs may become worried that students may be underprepared for residency because of this -- and increasing amounts of virtual clerkships may increase that worry.

From the discussion here and in other threads, some schools may more more impacted than others.

So I do think there's some concern as the amount of virtual training increases. It's often said here "Don't worry, you'll learn it all in residency". That's somewhat true -- for sure the learning curve is very steep. But programs do expect some baseline level of skill gained as a student.

I can already hear your responses:

1. How much is "too much" virtual? There's no answer, each program will decide. Perhaps some won't care at all. 4 months is clearly fine. 6 months is probably OK. 8+ months might be a concern.

2. But it's "not my fault", there is nothing I can do, this is the school policy. I agree. It's not your fault, and there's nothing you could do. But it still may be an issue in the application process.

 

[Neopolymath]

Nothing like being held accountable for being in one of the hottest covid spots despite having no control over it. This class got screwed so bad by the pandemic.

 

[LunaOri]

If you have the ability to do in-person electives, you should do them. If not, can you do something like radiology, where you can have a decent online learning experience?

 

[Maimonides1]

If you have the ability to do in-person electives, you should do them. If not, can you do something like radiology, where you can have a decent online learning experience?

The problem is, hospitals are restricting access to their facilities for their own med students and more so to other unattached programs and residents volumes got reduced dramatically in the last 6 moths..!!

 

[getfat]

1. How much is "too much" virtual? There's no answer, each program will decide. Perhaps some won't care at all. 4 months is clearly fine. 6 months is probably OK. 8+ months might be a concern.

For reference, 8 months out from February is ~October.

 

[getfat]

Our school is dumb as **** for doing this and I have no idea why they did this. Why bring attention to this???

Transparency about our classes? idk

 

[CharlieFoxtrot20]

Agree with all the great points above.
One of the required rotations I will have to do is at another hospital in an area which I will have to pay for housing, so financially my incentive is to do another month online and save expenses. Otherwise I would easily choose in-person rotations and learn. But the question becomes is the potential impact of “too many” months of online rotations on one’s application worth the financial expense?
There may not be an answer, I get the sense of the-sooner-the-better, but self-preservation is kicking in a bit.

 

[Neopolymath]

I want to make a post about this topic as I've grown a bit more bothered by it since reading the responses and attitudes.

During normal times, my school will do 12 rotation blocks third year and then 12 more for forth year. One of those blocks could be medical Spanish during 4th year. One block for all of 3rd and 4th year can be a vacation month. The rest are clinical unless the rare person sets up a legit research rotation.

Every single year for years and years, I have read MD students posting on SDN and reddit about "not seeing patients since October" and stuff like that while talking about 4th year life and about being worried about starting intern year because they "haven't written notes in 8 months." So while they are doing BS online fake electives and I'm on actual rotations each month that's not a problem during a normal year for programs but during a god-forsaken pandemic, me being quite literally forced into some virtual rotations calls into question my fitness and preparation for intern year??? As if I can't possibly just do some other work the second half of fourth year while MD students are apparently generally not doing ****. Not only can I do stuff then but I will actually be forced to do so like every other year instead of what they are reportedly doing.

Honestly, that's more double standard BS than usual. I guess the real rotations I will be forced to do the rest of the year instead of slacking off because everyone looks to be back on rotations (and will not be leaving them again) doesn't count for anything because I'm a DO student.

Edit: Caveat being you aren't applying to surgery with no real surgery experience or something like that. I don't know how to fix that situation and do think there are valid concerns.

 

[LunaOri]

I want to make a post about this topic as I've grown a bit more bothered by it since reading the responses and attitudes.

During normal times, my school will do 12 rotation blocks third year and then 12 more for forth year. One of those blocks could be medical Spanish during 4th year. One block for all of 3rd and 4th year can be a vacation month. The rest are clinical unless the rare person sets up a legit research rotation.

Every single year for years and years, I have read MD students posting on SDN and reddit about "not seeing patients since October" and stuff like that while talking about 4th year life and about being worried about starting intern year because they "haven't written notes in 8 months." So while they are doing BS online fake electives and I'm on actual rotations each month that's not a problem during a normal year for programs but during a god-forsaken pandemic, me being quite literally forced into some virtual rotations calls into question my fitness and preparation for intern year??? As if I can't possibly just do some other work the second half of fourth year while MD students are apparently generally not doing ****. Not only can I do stuff then but I will actually be forced to do so like every other year instead of what they are reportedly doing.

Honestly, that's more double standard BS than usual. I guess the real rotations I will be forced to do the rest of the year instead of slacking off because everyone looks to be back on rotations (and will not be leaving them again) doesn't count for anything because I'm a DO student.

Edit: Caveat being you aren't applying to surgery with no real surgery experience or something like that. I don't know how to fix that situation and do think there are valid concerns.

I’m sure programs will be understanding if you were unable to take in-person rotations because your school did not offer them. Choosing to take online electives when in-person electives were available wouldn’t look so good.

 

[Chibucks15]

I’m sure programs will be understanding if you were unable to take in-person rotations because your school did not offer them. Choosing to take online electives when in-person electives were available wouldn’t look so good.

How would they know the difference...and why would they assume that if you have online rotations that you chose them over in person ones? That’s my biggest issue with this line of thinking. There are only so many students able to do rotations due to social distancing at the centers as well.

The sub I I’m on basically has us 2 med students in a different room entirely from the residents and has signs everywhere of how many people can be in each room.

 

[NecrotizingFasciitis]

Another option for those in 4th year looking for something constructive to do during/before application season is to look for virtual/online electives in your specialty.

e.g.) the American College of Radiology (ACR) Class has a 2 week class, a pathology elective exists, I know there is a psychiatry one, and there are several others my school has approved for myself (the radiology one) & others

I know for a fact that the 2 week virtual ACR rotation looks good to program directors because it has been mentioned by a few of them on Twitter as "showing a lot of initiative"

So look for something like this for your specialty if you can.

You can also try to get involved in a project during your online elective to make it look more productive too (e.g. research, quality improvement stuff, etc.) A little more difficult, but if you happen to have an in it's a great option.