Too much loan. Should I give up dental school?

[Clara1234]

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[ibuprofen400mg]

Unfortunately, your husband will need to sacrifice here. He can work at a cooperate office and cover your tuition. Do not take out more loans. Once you are done with school, you can support him back if he wants to do residency.

 

[Anondds87]

I think you should look at your situation irrespective of your husband.

Look at how long it will take you to come out financially better off if you go to dental school. If you are 700k debt you will be paying roughly 50k a year in interest alone (7% of 700k). If you can only work part time for a number of years due to kids you will barely make any progress on your loans for the first few years.

So you could realistically find yourself in 600-700k debt at 40 years old. If you work really hard at paying your debt off maybe you're debt free at 50. Thats being optimistic, getting a good job, working full time, living like a student. So at 50 years old you're essentially at 0. That doesnt leave many years of working as a dentist before your body starts to give out on you.

If you stay at your current job you will make money for the next 18 years until you are 50. If you invest you will have a pretty decent sum. I think at this stage it is likely that going to dental school will never make you more money than staying in your current job, even if your current job doesnt pay that well.

From a financial point I agree 100% with your husband. It's not worth it.

 

[Cold Front]

Just look at the statistics:

1. Female dentists work (on average) fewer hours than their male counterparts, as a result will not reach their income potential due to family obligations/kids. Less hours = less $$$, longer to payback those high student loans. Maternity leave, calling off days from work due to children being sick, more vacation trips, etc all contribute to fewer hours at work. The opposite is true, a female dentist with no kids can be as successful or more successful than male dentists.

2. Extremely high student loans means - you are actually going to be working for taxes and paying off student loans more than you will be taking home for the first 10-20 years of your career.

3. Cost of raising kids are expensive these days. About $250k post-tax per kid for a middle income family - excluding cost of college. So that will take a toll on your savings and retirement plans.


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[Big Time Hoosier]

Do you know any women dentists who stopped practicing due to mom duties?

According to what I’ve read, female dentists are twice as likely to work part time than their male counterparts. Paying back $600,000+ in student loans with a part time income will not be pleasant. And should your husband go to residency, there’s potentially another $200,000+ in student loans. Add in kids, home mortgage, practice loan, etc. and you’ve got a big hole to dig yourself out of.

Big Hoss

***Disclaimer: No one taking out full loans should attend NYU.***

 

[Debt Free DDS]

If you can do it without taking out more loans then I would go for it. If you have to borrow for the whole thing, that will be very hard to manage unless you both plan on working full time for the foreseeable future.

Trust me, dental school loans are enormous and hard to pay back. It is possible to do it even somewhat quickly but it takes planning, sacrifice, and a lot of work.

 

[Saddleshoes]

If you wish to help your husband professionally and not compete for the same limited resources, I would suggest becoming a hygienist.

 

[Cold Front]

If you wish to help your husband professionally and not compete for the same limited resources, I would suggest becoming a hygienist.

This brings up another interesting point. How much does it cost to be a hygienist? I don’t think it’s unusual to see young hygienists with $100-150k in student loans. Although they can earn $50-80k a year (depending on the market), it’s still up there with dentists for income to debt ratio.


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[Saddleshoes]

This brings up another interesting point. How much does it cost to be a hygienist? I don’t think it’s unusual to see young hygienists with $100-150k in student loans. Although they can earn $50-80k a year (depending on the market), it’s still up there with dentists for income to debt ratio.

In my area most of the hygienists are trained in a 2 year community college that costs well under $10,000 in tuition.

 

[charlestweed]

Fortunately, your husband is a dentist and he only owes $60k in student loan. If he can help you pay for rent+ food (totally doable with his associate income), then you only need to take out $95k per year in student loan....and 4 years of NYU should only cost you $400k, instead of $6-700k. With 2 dentists’ incomes, you two should have no problem paying back your $400k + his $60k student loans. If your husband is willing help you + if you are willing to work hard (5-6 days/week) for a couple of years after graduation, then I think you should accept the NYU’s offer.

By the time your kids are around 7-8 years old (or maybe sooner if one of you start a practice and your practice does well), you and your husband should pay off the student loans. You can then start to cut down the workdays to 1-2 days/week….and still be able to bring home $50-60k/year, which is equivalent to a full time salary of the people who don’t have a college degree.

My wife and I are both dentists. When our kids were born, we hired a live-in nanny so we both could work 6 days/week. We paid off our combined $450k student loans in 5 years. When our oldest daughter entered first grade, my wife started to scale back her work days so she could spend more time to raise our kids. I continued to work 6 days/week to pay off the other loans (practice loans, home loan, 2 leased cars etc), to put money in the 401k, to save for our kids’ college educations, and to use a part of the income to invest in real estates etc. Now at 46, my wife only works 2-3 days/week, 1-3 hours a day…..and she still makes more money than many of her non-dentist friends, who work full time. She doesn’t work past 1pm because she has to pick up the kids from schools. I am glad my wife is a dentist. If something bad (a permanent disability or a terminal illness) happens to me, I won’t have to worry because my wife can always go back to working full time again to support the kids.

Two dentists’ incomes are always better than one dentist’s income. One of you can start a practice while the other one can work full time for someone else. One of you can take turn to work on Saturdays and Sundays to attract more patients.

Do plan to practice in NY? If yes, you will be required to do a year of GPR….this will set you back another year.

 

[charlestweed]

3. Cost of raising kids are expensive these days. About $250k post-tax per kid for a middle income family - excluding cost of college. So that will take a toll on your savings and retirement plans.

Yes, kids are very expensive. And this is why I think the OP should go to dental school so she can make enough money to support her kids. If her husband wasn’t a dentist, I would advise her to decline the NYU’s offer.

 

[Anondds87]

Fortunately, your husband is a dentist and he only owes $60k in student loan. If he can help you pay for rent+ food (totally doable with his associate income), then you only need to take out $95k per year in student loan....and 4 years of NYU should only cost you $400k, instead of $6-700k. With 2 dentists’ incomes, you two should have no problem paying back your $400k + his $60k student loans. If your husband is willing help you + if you are willing to work hard (5-6 days/week) for a couple of years after graduation, then I think you should accept the NYU’s offer.

By the time your kids are around 7-8 years old (or maybe sooner if one of you start a practice and your practice does well), you and your husband should pay off the student loans. You can then start to cut down the workdays to 1-2 days/week….and still be able to bring home $50-60k/year, which is equivalent to a full time salary of the people who don’t have a college degree.

My wife and I are both dentists. When our kids were born, we hired a live-in nanny so we both could work 6 days/week. We paid off our combined $450k student loans in 5 years. When our oldest daughter entered first grade, my wife started to scale back her work days so she could spend more time to raise our kids. I continued to work 6 days/week to pay off the other loans (practice loans, home loan, 2 leased cars etc), to put money in the 401k, to save for our kids’ college educations, and to use a part of the income to invest in real estates etc. Now at 46, my wife only works 2-3 days/week, 1-3 hours a day…..and she still makes more money than many of her non-dentist friends, who work full time. She doesn’t work past 1pm because she has to pick up the kids from schools. I am glad my wife is a dentist. If something bad (a permanent disability or a terminal illness) happens to me, I won’t have to worry because my wife can always go back to working full time again to support the kids.

Two dentists’ incomes are always better than one dentist’s income. One of you can start a practice while the other one can work full time for someone else. One of you can take turn to work on Saturdays and Sundays to attract more patients.

Do plan to practice in NY? If yes, you will be required to do a year of GPR….this will set you back another year.

But that kind of glorifies the fact that 700k (probably closer to 900k with interest) was spent on loans and could have been invested elsewhere.

They could stay in their current situation, save up the 900k, invest generating 54k per year passive income for the rest of their lives (assuming 6% return) plus the income she gets from working and enjoy being millionaires

 

[Cold Front]

In my area most of the hygienists are trained in a 2 year community college that costs well under $10,000 in tuition.

Community colleges cost less and are definitely the way to go, because of their associate degrees. The more expensive hygiene programs are offered as bachelors and masters in colleges. That’s when you can get into the 6 figure cost.


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[NITRAS]

Sorry, but paying 95k/year to become a dentist is stupid. Planning on becoming a part time dentist...........like please spend some time with a financial calculator and figure out what such a decision is costing your family.

Going into that much debt while planning on making a 100ish thousand a year in income is asking to really struggle.
Having kids doesn’t have to be expensive. You can make it expensive. Around here there is full time daycare and very limited three days a week daycare.

PS, much better to think of you and your husband as one unit, one family. This his debt and your debt thing is bad. Bad financial planning, bad relational planning.

 

[Cold Front]

Sorry, but paying 95k/year to become a dentist is stupid.

Actually, the actual number is closer to $135k/yr, if you include cost of living in NYC, the year to year tuition increases and the compounding interest. She said she will graduate with close to $700k in loans.



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[charlestweed]

But that kind of glorifies the fact that 700k (probably closer to 900k with interest) was spent on loans and could have been invested elsewhere.

They could stay in their current situation, save up the 900k, invest generating 54k per year passive income for the rest of their lives (assuming 6% return) plus the income she gets from working and enjoy being millionaires

If you go back and re-read my post, I said that with her husband's help in paying for rent and food, the OP may only need to take out $400k, instead of $6-700k. But if her husband doesn't want to help and thinks this is a bad idea, then I think the OP should abandon her dream of becoming a dentist. I agree with what NITRAS wrote on the previous post that it's much better to think the student loan debt as one unit....and not as his debt and her debt.

You can't just assume that the OP's massive debt will put a heavy financial burden on her family. What if the OP turns out to be a much better faster dentist and she can produce more $$$ than her husband? Wouldn't this be a good thing? I currently work with this female dentist, who is a managing dentist at the corp office. Her husband graduated debt free (because of his military scholarship) but he had to work at the military base for 4 years (I think) at much lower wage after graduation. She told me she had made a lot more $$$ working as an associate during these 4 years. Not only did she paid off her loan fast, but she also brought home much more money than her husband. Currently, her husband works at their own office and she works 4 days/week for the corp office as a managing dentist. She is a much better faster dentist than her husband. Her husband saves all the difficult molar endos, implant placements, and other high production cases for her to perform on the days that she doesn't work for the corp. She manages to do all this while raising their 3 kids.

 

[Cold Front]

If you go back and re-read my post, I said that with her husband's help in paying for rent and food, the OP may only need to take out $400k, instead of $6-700k. But if her husband doesn't want to help and thinks this is a bad idea, then I think the OP should abandon her dream of becoming a dentist. I agree with what NITRAS wrote on the previous post that it's much better to think the student loan debt as one unit....and not as his debt and her debt.

The OP also said husband is considering going back to school for Endo. That’s additional ($250-300k) debt for the family - in addition to the $6-700k for the OP going through with her NYU offer.



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[P7898]

I agree with the community college hygienist route. Then start understanding and learning business principles so you can wear 2 hats in your new office. I mean that would be close to $100k of yearly income you all are saving after that if you wear the two hats and virtually no debt. You will not be stressed out by debt and while your husband is controlling the clinical aspects of dentistry you can own the patient's trust and the life blood of the practice.

I know it is not ideal and looked down as the "lesser" option. But life is humbling and you and your husband are a team now and sometimes you have to make sacrifices as to what makes financial sense and what doesn't. There should be no reason to try and go into $600k debt at 9% compounding interest so you can be seen as an "equal". You will never get out of that debt.

Life already set you two together and that is more than enough - so work together on this. One of my friends was going through something similar so pardon my rant.

 

[gumtee]

I agree with the above statements.
If you got into a cheaper school and in a cheaper state I would be more swayed...
Hygiene route seems more viable and could work marvellously with your husband

But at the end of the day it’s upto you. If you would feel sad and unfulfilled/regretful for not taking the space then go for it. The money will be paid off, but take a bit longer. Take all our opinions with a pinchi of salt!

You’re lucky you have a husband who has good earning potential
All the best x

 

[FutureDent020]

The thing is my husband has <60K of loan and wants to later open up his own practice as a GD or do endo residency. He wants to buy a home and build his own practice someday..However, if he borrows money to open his clinic and I attend dental school, our combined loan will exceed 1.2 million! Therefore, he doesn’t think it’ll be a good idea for me to pursue dentistry because it will take me forever to pay off my loans (btw I am debt free as of now).

Your husband is definitely right, but he was also able to freely follow his dreams and still appears to be, considering he may go back into residency. Telling you shouldn't go to dental school because of all the debt you all will incur, then electing to leave his job to incur his own debt seems like an odd compromise. Him working as a full time GP while you go to dental school seems more fitting. Or if you don't attend school, using all that money to buy his own practice. Another better compromise. Just an outsider looking in.
Your biggest issue is NYU. In your situation, wanting a family, husband already works and is probably doing well, NYU's fees/tution/loans are just going to bog you down for a long time. I wouldn't do it nor would I recommend it to my wife.

 

[Svart Aske]

600K invested in a passively managed index fund will grow into millions by the time you retire...

 

[TanMan]

Hi I just got accepted to NYU dental.
I’m 31 turning 32 and married to a dentist who got out two years ago. Since we’re planning to have kids, I dont know if it would be a wise decision for ME to go to dental school

The thing is my husband has <60K of loan and wants to later open up his own practice as a GD or do endo residency. He wants to buy a home and build his own practice someday..However, if he borrows money to open his clinic and I attend dental school, our combined loan will exceed 1.2 million! Therefore, he doesn’t think it’ll be a good idea for me to pursue dentistry because it will take me forever to pay off my loans (btw I am debt free as of now).

Idk what I’ll be putting myself into if I take out loans to go to dental school..but I really want to become a dentist..Hard question is should I give up dentistry for my family, be a stay at home mom, and invest in properties? Do you know any women dentists who stopped practicing due to mom duties? I would appreciate some advice from experienced dental professionals.

If I decide to attend NYU, I will walk out with 6-700K in debt and I’ll be 36 by then. NYU tuition and fees cost 95K/year. Please know that I dont have any instate schools. Im waiting for my interview result from Pitt (oos).
Do you think becoming a dentist is worth the massive debt?

To dentist moms: do you work full time or part time? Because I heard that dentist moms typically work part time to care for their children..I wonder if this is true.

How did you raise your kid(s) while working in the profession?

Do any of you have any regrets switching to dentistry?

Big question is:

How much do you love dentistry? If you love dentistry more than your kids, pursue dentistry. There's that old saying, if you're gonna half @ss something, you might as well not do it. Going into that much debt with halfheartedness and wanting to split your time between kids/work is going to affect one or the other. Many dentist moms work part time and many also don't have the same drive/commitment to produce (except for one that I remember that would papoose and put ssc's on almost every child - she made bank).

If you're going to accrue that much debt but want to be a mom at the same time, you shouldn't work at all. Force your husband to be the breadwinner and hope he's not a beta male dentist that can support your family + give you capital to invest. Only you can answer whether your husband is up to the task.

Some people may argue that two dentists in the family are better than one, but what I find when they practice together under the same roof is that you usually end up getting two mediocre dentists that try to open two offices that cannot seem to be successful. I'm not sure what it is about dentist couples...

Lastly, if you're willing to work hard as an associate and/or open your own office(s), I think it's worth it. Otherwise, as a part time associate, you really need to find an office where you can work 3 days a week and get paid 1.5-2k/day at your proposed debt levels. If you have the flexibility to move and work hard, then this is an easy task. If you do not have the flexibility to move and need to work in a major metro area, then forget about it. At 400-500/day part time, you won't make your debt service and drag your family down.

Disclaimer: I have no kids, I have colleagues with kids, I see the pitfalls of having children. Interesting thing I noted is that quite a few dentists I know are unhappy with their family and kids and prefer to work extra to avoid them.

 

[2TH MVR]

What's more important for you? Raising a family or being a dentist? Remember. Two working parents means less time with a growing family. Time with your kids that will be forever lost. My kids and I were fortunate that my wife quit her career in tourism and took on the HARDER, less appreciated job of taking care of a growing family.

If you could become a dentist with less debt .... then it's an option. But that future crippling debt will be a MAJOR financial stress in your life.

Doesn't matter what we think. You and your husband need to decide what is best for you, him and your future family needs.

 

[P7898]

How can two dentists raise a family?

 

[charlestweed]

How can two dentists raise a family?

It should be much easier with 2 dentists than with 1 dentist. It should be easier with 2 dentists than with 2 physicians. With the higher income of 2 dentists, one of them can afford to work fewer days a week and have more time to raise their kids. With the double income, my wife and I can afford to put our kids in Catholic schools, where they can pray in the classrooms every morning. Can't do this in public schools. Kids tend to be more well behaved in private schools. It's also very important to have a happy marriage.

I got this text message from my wife this morning. The gold chains that my wife referred to on this text are not jewelry. They are orthodontic gold chains that are used to attach to the impacted canines. My wife does all of the canine exposures for my patients.

 

[gumtee]

How can two dentists raise a family?

Much easier than people doing lesser paid jobs or one dentist alone ...

 

[P7898]

I meant in terms of when they are young. How to go back and forth with them before daycare.

 

[NITRAS]

Sorry, but how is this any different than any family with two working parents. Last I checked, dentists work office hours. Someone drops the kids off at daycare on the way to work. Sone one picks them up. Daycares have hours, ours was 6am to 6pm. . . Don’t be late. Some have weekends, but most are closed most major holidays.
Got to have a back up, cause your kids gonna get sick at least 4 times a year.

If you are referring to breastfeeding babies, they go with bags of milk that has been pumped ahead of time. (Most insurance will pay for a breast pump btw)

Lots of people I know have a nanny. They are expensive in our market, but we have a string of babysitters. BTW, I overpay them on purpose. More for the ones that actually clean up.

Not everyone wants to be a stay at home mom or dad. That’s ok. My wife not working is probably the most expensive part of having kids. My wife is an extremely intelligent RD, who could make between $80-120k if she was full time. Now she does some consulting, but will probably go back to work in a few years. We will see what kind of schooling we do. We can afford for her not to work, but more income is always better.

 

[P7898]

Sorry, but how is this any different than any family with two working parents. Last I checked, dentists work office hours. Someone drops the kids off at daycare on the way to work. Sone one picks them up. Daycares have hours, ours was 6am to 6pm. . . Don’t be late. Some have weekends, but most are closed most major holidays.
Got to have a back up, cause your kids gonna get sick at least 4 times a year.

If you are referring to breastfeeding babies, they go with bags of milk that has been pumped ahead of time. (Most insurance will pay for a breast pump btw)

Lots of people I know have a nanny. They are expensive in our market, but we have a string of babysitters. BTW, I overpay them on purpose. More for the ones that actually clean up.

Not everyone wants to be a stay at home mom or dad. That’s ok. My wife not working is probably the most expensive part of having kids. My wife is an extremely intelligent RD, who could make between $80-120k if she was full time. Now she does some consulting, but will probably go back to work in a few years. We will see what kind of schooling we do. We can afford for her not to work, but more income is always better.

Thanks for sharing. Yeah I was curious as my significant other is a dentist.

 

[2TH MVR]

It's normal to see younger generations with different family values. But lets be honest. As each new generation replaces the next .... the concept of family becomes less "hands on" as compared to prior generations. The "family" concept has been changing. Some would say that the concept of family is being eroded over time. I'm not here to debate whether this is ideal or not. But there appears to be fewer children born today. Couples marrying later in life ... if they even get married which means if kids are raised .... they have older parents. Both parents working appears to be the trend whether economically necessary, personal choice or societally driven.

Just interesting to see the different perspectives.

 

[Saddleshoes]

How can two dentists raise a family?

Two dentists raising a family? Easy in so many ways...
Two dentists in DEBT raising a family? An extreme struggle in so man ways!!!!

 

[cloth_alert00]

This brings up another interesting point. How much does it cost to be a hygienist? I don’t think it’s unusual to see young hygienists with $100-150k in student loans. Although they can earn $50-80k a year (depending on the market), it’s still up there with dentists for income to debt ratio.


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hygienist with 150k loans?! lol its an associates degree!!

 

[cloth_alert00]

Hi I just got accepted to NYU dental.
I’m 31 turning 32 and married to a dentist who got out two years ago. Since we’re planning to have kids, I dont know if it would be a wise decision for ME to go to dental school

The thing is my husband has <60K of loan and wants to later open up his own practice as a GD or do endo residency. He wants to buy a home and build his own practice someday..However, if he borrows money to open his clinic and I attend dental school, our combined loan will exceed 1.2 million! Therefore, he doesn’t think it’ll be a good idea for me to pursue dentistry because it will take me forever to pay off my loans (btw I am debt free as of now).

Idk what I’ll be putting myself into if I take out loans to go to dental school..but I really want to become a dentist..Hard question is should I give up dentistry for my family, be a stay at home mom, and invest in properties? Do you know any women dentists who stopped practicing due to mom duties? I would appreciate some advice from experienced dental professionals.

If I decide to attend NYU, I will walk out with 6-700K in debt and I’ll be 36 by then. NYU tuition and fees cost 95K/year. Please know that I dont have any instate schools. Im waiting for my interview result from Pitt (oos).
Do you think becoming a dentist is worth the massive debt?

To dentist moms: do you work full time or part time? Because I heard that dentist moms typically work part time to care for their children..I wonder if this is true.

How did you raise your kid(s) while working in the profession?

Do any of you have any regrets switching to dentistry?

I would reapply and get into a cheaper school. You should be able acquire a DDS for around 300k.

 

[Cold Front]

hygienist with 150k loans?! lol its an associates degree!!

It depends who offers the program. Community colleges are the cheapest, big colleges charge figures for a bachelor or masters in dental hygiene.


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[Cold Front]

I would reapply and get into a cheaper school. You should be able acquire a DDS for around 300k.

Each year she reapplies is $150-160k potential income loss. It’s like spending a $1 to save a quarter.

Even if she reapplies, the competition to cheaper schools gets tougher the next cycle. The cheaper schools also get more expensive the next cycle. There is always the chance and risk of not getting into any school as well - nothing is absolutely guaranteed at each cycle.


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[Cold Front]

I know your dream may have been to be a dentist alongside your husband, but I don't want to give advice I know I wouldn't follow or give to my family/loved ones. You have a family and priorities that some of us do not. Coldfront/Tanman/bighoss have given great answers in the past, def seek those posts.

good luck!

That’s it! The dream. How much would a person be willing to pay for their dream to become a dentist?

It’s a very scary dilemma. Some people have dreams of becoming an orthodontist without realizing some Ortho programs are charging $500k to train their residents. How those residency programs even attract applicants (with $400-600k in student loans from DS) is beyond me. And those are just today’s numbers for current residents - and not next year’s and beyond that.



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[beannaithe]

If kids are in your plans, I would not 100% become a dentist at that tuition. I'm a mommy dentist with 2 little kids. My debt was about half of your proposed debt load and it was a struggle to pay it down quickly. I wait several years paid off most of my student loans prior to having kids. My debt repayment also dropped dramatically after having kids. Having kids is expensive. We pay more for daycare than we do for rent and we aren't even at an ultra-fancy daycare program. I'm the stereotypical mommy doctor. I work 2.5 days a week. I could make more working full time, but my priorities changed after I had my kids and I wanted to spend time with them while they're little.

 

[Cold Front]

If kids are in your plans, I would not 100% become a dentist at that tuition. I'm a mommy dentist with 2 little kids. My debt was about half of your proposed debt load and it was a struggle to pay it down quickly. I wait several years paid off most of my student loans prior to having kids. My debt repayment also dropped dramatically after having kids. Having kids is expensive. We pay more for daycare than we do for rent and we aren't even at an ultra-fancy daycare program. I'm the stereotypical mommy doctor. I work 2.5 days a week. I could make more working full time, but my priorities changed after I had my kids and I wanted to spend time with them while they're little.

What’s your thoughts on new grads stats and over half of them being female dentists - and females continuing to be the main workforce by gender in dentistry in the future (about 80% of retiring dentists are males today)? What would be the implications of those female dentists graduating with high student loans and wanting to start a family (as you said, kids are getting more expensive every year)? Does that swing the workforce pendulum more to corporate dentistry jobs in the future? Is that going to have big impact on the future female dentists avoiding building or buying a solo practice all together eventually (because of the 2.5-3 days a week schedule to balance work and life with kids)?


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[beannaithe]

What’s your thoughts on new grads stats and over half of them being female dentists - and females continuing to be the main workforce by gender in dentistry in the future (about 80% of retiring dentists are males today)? What would be the implications of those female dentists graduating with high student loans and wanting to start a family (as you said, kids are getting more expensive every year)? Does that swing the workforce pendulum more to corporate dentistry jobs in the future? Is that going to have big impact on the future female dentists avoiding building or buying a solo practice all together eventually (because of the 2.5-3 days a week schedule to balance work and life with kids)?


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I think it's going to end up decreasing choices for a lot of female doctors. Choices and freedom to practice in different ways, I think, is what makes dentistry attractive. With high student loans, there is no choice. You need to make a lot of money. The best way to maintain a work/life balance of doing 2.5-3 days a week is either partnering with someone who works a similar style (possibly another mom) or buying a small practice. However, can you make enough money on those hours to pay the practice loan and maintain debt service on other loans? Or do you even qualify for a loan with debt levels like we're seeing here when there is limited cash flow? That tends to limit choices for practice purchase and loan repayment. Unfortunately, that leaves the door open for corps to swing in and offer a job to those who might not qualify for a practice loan.

Female dentists with high student loan debt will be stuck between a rock and a hard place. You can either wait and start a family later after paying down debt. That runs the risk of having issues having kids and possibly waiting too late to have them without intervention/not at all. Or starting too early and having kid related expenses take away money from debt repayment, which deepens the hole that you have to dig out of.

Another interesting trend I've noticed from other mommy doctors is how little maternity leave owners will take. 2 weeks after the baby born seems to be the norm, which is hard to imagine because daycare won't take babies until at least 6-8 weeks. I'm not sure if it's due to expenses or just wanting to work, but that seems to cut into spending time with a family.

 

[charlestweed]

What’s your thoughts on new grads stats and over half of them being female dentists - and females continuing to be the main workforce by gender in dentistry in the future (about 80% of retiring dentists are males today)? What would be the implications of those female dentists graduating with high student loans and wanting to start a family (as you said, kids are getting more expensive every year)? Does that swing the workforce pendulum more to corporate dentistry jobs in the future? Is that going to have big impact on the future female dentists avoiding building or buying a solo practice all together eventually (because of the 2.5-3 days a week schedule to balance work and life with kids)?


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I heard of a female dentist (a friend of a friend), who converted her unused pedo treatment room to a kid nursery room for her new born infant. She hired a nanny to come to her office to take care of her child while she treated the patients. That's the beauty of being your own boss..... you can do whatever you want.

When I started my office 13 years ago, my wife usually came to help me working in both front and back because we worked late night from 6:30pm to 9:00pm (I had to work for the corp during the day from 9-6). She usually brought our 2-yo daughter to work with us. We kept the daugther in the doctor's office and let her watch some cartoons. We had a live-in nanny at home but we missed our daughter and wanted to see her face. After work, we went for dinner together. There were a lot of Asian restaurants that were opened late. As our daughter got older, the office got busier, and I no longer needed to work late night, I later converted this doctor's office into an additional treatment room.

Here in CA, it's very easy to find a live-in nanny. You post an ad and you get a least 5-10 calls a day. The pay is between $1500-1800 a month.

 

[gingerbreadcookie1219]

OP, what have you decided? I am in a situation that has some similarities. I am 31 and wanting to go to vet school. Also wanting to have a baby at some point. I am currently in an RN program and will graduate May of next year. I am wanting to apply to vet school this cycle and have a decent shot at getting accepted (I already took all prerequisites during 2016-2018). My fiancé is not on board with me going to vet school. He is wanting me to work after I finish my current program for us to be able to buy a house and take some of the financial burden off of him. He is not happy with the idea of me not having a real income for the last 3 years while in school and then going another 4 years with no income and racking up debt. He is also not in agreement of having kids that late. I am not in complete disagreement with this as I understand where he is coming from, but I also don’t know if the longing of wanting to be a veterinarian will ever go away. Vet school won’t cost nearly as much as what you’ve proposed dental school will cost you, but on the flip side jobs are not readily available and pay is not great I’d say average would be $70,000 a year for a new grad vet (some people make less and some more I guess it just depends) and it will still cost me roughly around $100,000 to attend vet school.

 

[allDAT]

OP, what have you decided? I am in a situation that has some similarities. I am 31 and wanting to go to vet school. Also wanting to have a baby at some point. I am currently in an RN program and will graduate May of next year. I am wanting to apply to vet school this cycle and have a decent shot at getting accepted (I already took all prerequisites during 2016-2018). My fiancé is not on board with me going to vet school. He is wanting me to work after I finish my current program for us to be able to buy a house and take some of the financial burden off of him. He is not happy with the idea of me not having a real income for the last 3 years while in school and then going another 4 years with no income and racking up debt. He is also not in agreement of having kids that late. I am not in complete disagreement with this as I understand where he is coming from, but I also don’t know if the longing of wanting to be a veterinarian will ever go away. Vet school won’t cost nearly as much as what you’ve proposed dental school will cost you, but on the flip side jobs are not readily available and pay is not great I’d say average would be $70,000 a year for a new grad vet (some people make less and some more I guess it just depends) and it will still cost me roughly around $100,000 to attend vet school.

Don’t become a vet, the ROI is terrible. Why did you become an RN if you wanted to be a vet?

 

[NinjaBox]

DO NOT do it for 700k. Its great you were accepted but dont fall into the thinking that once a dentist youll be able to pay it back/figure it out. This will stress you out on a major level and you will just spend the better part of your life filled with financial stress to only spin your wheel one big time and then thats kinda it. You might even lose financially, and at best you will likely only make the same you could now with no loan and investments plus the time. I promise you. If you must become a dentist, you need to save up for another year and get into one of the cheapest schools in the country. For those saying to have your husband help pay tuition, i would argue you guys would have a larger net worth with you not taking out this money and him putting your 'tuition chunks' into mutual funds and giving them time. 700k is enough rope to do real harm. Dont.
Class of 2015

 

[Silver_arrow]

Hi I just got accepted to NYU dental.
I’m 31 turning 32 and married to a dentist who got out two years ago. Since we’re planning to have kids, I dont know if it would be a wise decision for ME to go to dental school

The thing is my husband has <60K of loan and wants to later open up his own practice as a GD or do endo residency. He wants to buy a home and build his own practice someday..However, if he borrows money to open his clinic and I attend dental school, our combined loan will exceed 1.2 million! Therefore, he doesn’t think it’ll be a good idea for me to pursue dentistry because it will take me forever to pay off my loans (btw I am debt free as of now).

Idk what I’ll be putting myself into if I take out loans to go to dental school..but I really want to become a dentist..Hard question is should I give up dentistry for my family, be a stay at home mom, and invest in properties? Do you know any women dentists who stopped practicing due to mom duties? I would appreciate some advice from experienced dental professionals.

If I decide to attend NYU, I will walk out with 6-700K in debt and I’ll be 36 by then. NYU tuition and fees cost 95K/year. Please know that I dont have any instate schools. Im waiting for my interview result from Pitt (oos).
Do you think becoming a dentist is worth the massive debt?

To dentist moms: do you work full time or part time? Because I heard that dentist moms typically work part time to care for their children..I wonder if this is true.

How did you raise your kid(s) while working in the profession?

Do any of you have any regrets switching to dentistry?

I read four things here:

1) you really want to go to dental school.
2) you want to be a mother
3) you are concerned about money
4) your worried about your age

this is what I think would be the best case scenario:

Accept the offer and go to NYU. This is what you want and you can make it work.

Your husband and you should try to start having kids now. Don’t delay this. You can have kids while in dental school. I don’t think it will be a problem. Believe me, the stresses of each year will pile up and you are not getting any younger. You can take a leave from school for delivery etc, and easily get back into your classes.
A major benefit and help would be if you could get some family support. What I mean is that you have relatives (your parents or his parents) can help take care of your kids while you are in school and residency. This would avoid you having to pay for childcare. If one of your parents would move to nyc to take care of your kid/s then you have it easy.

As far as your husband goes, he should absolutely get into endo. Endodontists do very well financially. Your student loans will not be a problem if he is a competent endodontist working full time.
Also, you should consider specializing too, if possible. This could make up for all the ‘lost’ years.

 

[LFA20]

OP, what have you decided? I am in a situation that has some similarities. I am 31 and wanting to go to vet school. Also wanting to have a baby at some point. I am currently in an RN program and will graduate May of next year. I am wanting to apply to vet school this cycle and have a decent shot at getting accepted (I already took all prerequisites during 2016-2018). My fiancé is not on board with me going to vet school. He is wanting me to work after I finish my current program for us to be able to buy a house and take some of the financial burden off of him. He is not happy with the idea of me not having a real income for the last 3 years while in school and then going another 4 years with no income and racking up debt. He is also not in agreement of having kids that late. I am not in complete disagreement with this as I understand where he is coming from, but I also don’t know if the longing of wanting to be a veterinarian will ever go away. Vet school won’t cost nearly as much as what you’ve proposed dental school will cost you, but on the flip side jobs are not readily available and pay is not great I’d say average would be $70,000 a year for a new grad vet (some people make less and some more I guess it just depends) and it will still cost me roughly around $100,000 to attend vet school.

listen to your husband

 

[2TH MVR]

I read four things here:

1) you really want to go to dental school.
2) you want to be a mother
3) you are concerned about money
4) your worried about your age

this is what I think would be the best case scenario:

Accept the offer and go to NYU. This is what you want and you can make it work.

Your husband and you should try to start having kids now. Don’t delay this. You can have kids while in dental school. I don’t think it will be a problem. Believe me, the stresses of each year will pile up and you are not getting any younger. You can take a leave from school for delivery etc, and easily get back into your classes.
A major benefit and help would be if you could get some family support. What I mean is that you have relatives (your parents or his parents) can help take care of your kids while you are in school and residency. This would avoid you having to pay for childcare. If one of your parents would move to nyc to take care of your kid/s then you have it easy.

As far as your husband goes, he should absolutely get into endo. Endodontists do very well financially. Your student loans will not be a problem if he is a competent endodontist working full time.
Also, you should consider specializing too, if possible. This could make up for all the ‘lost’ years.

So.......
Husband opens or buys his own practice (500-750K) or goes to endo residency (100-200K?????). Does he start his own endo practice? 300-500K
Wife takes on 600-700K of undergrad DS debt
You recommend that she specializes also which is another 200-300K. Statistically most women work PT. So she (let me reiterate: her husband, entire family and her) are going into further debt so she can realize a dream and work PT?
Lets start a family. Kids are expensive. what's the average cost of raising a kid nowadays? 200K-225K not including college expenses, future weddings, , etc.
Do they have a house large enough for kids? 350K- the sky is the limit on home prices
Retirement?

It's starting to add up. There are so many expenses associated with living.

 

[Silver_arrow]

So.......
Husband opens or buys his own practice (500-750K) or goes to endo residency (100-200K?????). Does he start his own endo practice? 300-500K
Wife takes on 600-700K of undergrad DS debt
You recommend that she specializes also which is another 200-300K. Statistically most women work PT. So she (let me reiterate: her husband, entire family and her) are going into further debt so she can realize a dream and work PT?
Lets start a family. Kids are expensive. what's the average cost of raising a kid nowadays? 200K-225K not including college expenses, future weddings, , etc.
Do they have a house large enough for kids? 350K- the sky is the limit on home prices
Retirement?

It's starting to add up. There are so many expenses associated with living.

This is what I'm thinking:
Husband becomes an endodontist and makes 500-600K a year without breaking a sweat working full time.
Remember, endo is one of the highest paying dental specialties. Most of their patients are in pain, and they don't have to sell anything.
I'm assuming the husband is competitive enough to get in, otherwise he wouldn't be interested.
Over the course of his lifetime, the cost of his practice, and other familial obligations would not be an issue.

Regarding children, who said anyone has to pay for their post graduate education? How about having them pay for their own? This makes them more motivated to succeed, and will foster greater ambition. A famous quote from a billionaire (can't recall the name): "the best blessing for your kids is to raise them in poverty". No one paid for my college.

Its repeated over and over again on this thread that the statistics show that women work less.
This is true and fair to bring up.

Here is another statistic - the divorce rate in America. I think it's fair to discuss that 40-50 percent of marriages end up in divorce.
I have two colleagues who ended up getting divorced shortly after residency. Both of their wives are physicians. I haven't kept track on one of them, but the other ended up re-marrying another doc in her department and having kids. If you asked her if it was a good idea to become a professional (become a physician) I think she would tell you it was an absolutely good decision. It was a big shock when people heard that both these couples were getting divorced. No one would have guessed.
I'm not suggesting in any way that the OP would get divorced. I'm merely saying that women should be prepared to take care of themselves, and their children should the situation arise.

If the OP were to specialize and say go into endo herself, and even work part time, I think the math would be in her favor.
Remember going to work (dentistry) is actually easier than being a mom at home. Being a mother at home is way more difficult especially with multiple children.

 

[Anondds87]

This is what I'm thinking:
Husband becomes an endodontist and makes 500-600K a year without breaking a sweat working full time.
Remember, endo is one of the highest paying dental specialties. Most of their patients are in pain, and they don't have to sell anything.
I'm assuming the husband is competitive enough to get in, otherwise he wouldn't be interested.
Over the course of his lifetime, the cost of his practice, and other familial obligations would not be an issue.

Regarding children, who said anyone has to pay for their post graduate education? How about having them pay for their own? This makes them more motivated to succeed, and will foster greater ambition. A famous quote from a billionaire (can't recall the name): "the best blessing for your kids is to raise them in poverty". No one paid for my college.

Its repeated over and over again on this thread that the statistics show that women work less.
This is true and fair to bring up.

Here is another statistic - the divorce rate in America. I think it's fair to discuss that 40-50 percent of marriages end up in divorce.
I have two colleagues who ended up getting divorced shortly after residency. Both of their wives are physicians. I haven't kept track on one of them, but the other ended up re-marrying another doc in her department and having kids. If you asked her if it was a good idea to become a professional (become a physician) I think she would tell you it was an absolutely good decision. It was a big shock when people heard that both these couples were getting divorced. No one would have guessed.
I'm not suggesting in any way that the OP would get divorced. I'm merely saying that women should be prepared to take care of themselves, and their children should the situation arise.

If the OP were to specialize and say go into endo herself, and even work part time, I think the math would be in her favor.
Remember going to work (dentistry) is actually easier than being a mom at home. Being a mother at home is way more difficult especially with multiple children.

I feel your points make the case for not going into dentistry - if she gets in and is 6-700k in debt and then goes through divorce she is in an incredibly bad situation. The only way any of this makes sense is if the husband is subsidizing her education, in which case he could be using that money for the family to be further ahead financially if she kept working as is.
I'm flat out blown away people are doing all these mental gymnastics to try justify 6-700k debt to be a general dentist. It's just dumb

 

[NinjaBox]

''500-600k for an endodontist without breaking a sweat'' i feel is a big stretch. Also they do have to make a 'sale'. A 2200 dollar endo (with post core and crown) vs 150 dollar extraction

 

[NinjaBox]

I would also like to add, its easy to fall into the thinking of 'okay is it possible to pay off 6-700k of debt while being a dentist and also handling basic financial needs and dealing with some financial emergencies along the way?' But remember to imagine where you will be in life when you do project to have that accomplished. Because that moment is great but bitter sweet in that you finally paid off your student loan but once the dust settles you realize you are out of debt but have 0 dollars. So ensure that your plan accounts for paying off the 700k and then leaves room to create an additional 1-3 million before you hang up the handpiece. Im not being a naysayer here but just wanted to cast light on the idea that the goal cant be making and paying off 700k and then you're finished.
Also while in school i was under the hypnosis that specializing is much better and prestigious and you shouldn't even dare question how much more it would cost or you were 'looking at it all wrong'. Ortho being the biggest hardest specialty to get into, but paying another 150-200k and allowing the 600-700k to continue to spawn little interest babies only to come out now all ready to 'make bank' and finding out that 45 percent of the easy bread and butter cases are now just using smile direct, and general dentists are doing an increasing number of cases through invisalign and you move into a town and still have to compete with the well known ortho for the remaining cases. Ill tell you im making more than my classmates who became orthodontists and I started with less than half the debt. Erase all pre programmed notions and beliefs about this profession and specializing and really just look at the numbers like a nieve child who isn't under any persuasion and question the plan through that lens. Not saying its a bad profession, but insisting there is a cross over point where financially it doesn't make sense anymore.