Top 20 vs 50/60 with SO?

[HalogenFlood]

Hi all,

So I've found myself in a very difficult position, and I have nobody to talk with that wouldn't be extremely biased in one way or another. Long story short, I have narrowed my school decision down to two schools: A top 20 that I thought was terrific, and a school ranked somewhere between 50-65 that my SO of 2.5 years currently attends.

I've given this a TON of thought and it stresses me out every.single.day yet I still cannot decide. On the one hand, T20 school will have better opportunities, connections, etc. On the other hand, I'd have more support at T50 school, plus an easier transition and personal mentor (Aka SO). A current MS3 at T50 that I've spoken with said that while she wouldn't recommend choosing T50 over T20, I'd probably have an easier time getting AOA since not many people are gunners at T50 (I am, I know it, I accept it). This also plays into the whole "fit" issue though - I'm afraid I won't fit in at T50

I know a lower tier school certainly doesn't close any doors for residency, but it's probably going to be a much harder fight - and I know I want to go into a more academic focused practice, so prestige does matter a bit more. I have nothing against T50 school, but if my SO wasn't there, I'd have already made my decision.

Has anyone ever been in a similar situation? Any thoughts/advice would be very helpful. Am I being completely unreasonable for not wanting to go to the same school as my SO?

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[rednote]

We would probably give better tip if you specifically mention which schools. But regardless, in general, you should choose the better school. I would personally choose the top 20 hands down mainly because like you said you like it better and you feel like you wouldn't fit well at T50. Secondly, let's be honest, you are smart enough and competitive enough to get into top 20 man, if you apply yourself you can get AOA at either of these schools. Additionally, resources and connection and T20 would probably outweigh just getting AOA at T50 anyway. Thirdly, it's not like you and your girlfriend will be starting together. You'll only be in school together for only 1 year so I don't think that justifies you picking T20 over T50. Lastly, T50 won't close you doors but you are right in that it will be more difficult to match into more competitive residencies and you'll be unwise to give up the prestige and connection of T20 if you are focused on academic career and even more so if it is competitive specialty.

 

[efle]

If your overlap with SO is only going to be a year or two, and you'd likely have to do long distance during his/her residency anyways, then it seems like a poor reason to pass up the better fit.

 

[HalogenFlood]

Thank you both for your insight on this, I really appreciate it. My SO is actually a current MS1 so our overlap would be 3 or maybe even 4 years if they decide to do a research year or something like that.

Edit: OH and I'd rather not name the schools. But the T50 does have a couple of people match into mass gen/UCSF/Brighams/JHU every year. Given that these programs are at least familiar with the T50 school would that change anything? Obviously the T20 has a lot more of these matches though.

 

[efle]

Thank you both for your insight on this, I really appreciate it. My SO is actually a current MS1 so our overlap would be 3 or maybe even 4 years if they decide to do a research year or something like that.

That does change things, if they're open to a research year so you could do couple's match.

I really don't know that strangers on the internet are going to be a great source of advice on this. It really depends on you and your own feelings. As the above poster mentioned it might help to know the schools and/or what area you see yourself going into. I'm obviously only pre-med but the typical SDN wisdom is that, much like from college into med school, where you end up depends much more on the student in question than the school they attend.

 

[rednote]

Hmmm ooh yeah that does make the decision a bit difficult.. are the two schools far apart? Feel free to PM me i can give more specific advice based on the schools, geography, your field of interest etc. Or you can post em here.

 

[Moko]

If you attended the top 50 school and your relationship went south, would you regret having gone there? Med school will stress relationships regardless of distance, and many unfortunately will fail.

 

[redferrari]

Are you married? If yes, go with your SO. If not, go to T20.

 

[redferrari]

If you attended the top 50 school and your relationship went south, would you regret having gone there?

B-I-N-G-O, and Bingo was his name-o.

 

[rednote]

Only top 50 I would even consider over top 20 in your situation with your SO if I were you would be dartmouth because the reason they are lower ranked is their size and relatively lower research output. But I hear many residencies favor them and they do still have the "old-boys" connections. It's a tough one but if your goal is mass gen/UCSF/Brighams/JHU, I would pick T20.

I also suggest you read this thread.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/thr...ram-from-a-non-top-25-medical-school.1073026/

 

[ifnotnowwren]

This isn't really a question anyone can answer but you, so the following are just some things to take into consideration. How serious are things with your SO? I know 2.5 years is a long time, but 2.5 years means different levels of intimacy for different people. Have you discussed what your relationship is now/what you want it to be in the future and are you both on the same page with respect to that? How far apart are the schools, would you have to do long distance if they are in different states, and are you both up for that? Take a look at your priorities and figure out what is important to you now and what will be important to you going forward. There is no shame in valuing personal relationships above "being the best" or putting personal relationships on equal footing with your career or valuing relationships over all else or valuing career over all else. Different people have different values when it comes to career vs. relationships and it's all ok, it's all valid.

One way to think about it is if your SO disappeared off the face of the planet while you are at School 50, would you still be relatively happy there? Or would you still be kicking yourself that you didn't go to School 20? The way you wrote your post, it sounds like the only thing School 50 has going for it in your eyes is that your SO goes there. Is that the case? Conversely, if you go to School 20 and you and your SO break up, are you going to kick yourself for not going to School 50 because they were "the one"?

 

[summergirl]

I think it depends on how you perceive your relationship. Is your SO someone you believe you will probably (as in, with >80% chance) end up getting married to? If your answer is yes, I would recommend the top 50, but if your answer is not sure, then go to the top 20.

 

[MatthewDamon]

We would probably give better tip if you specifically mention which schools. But regardless, in general, you should choose the better school. I would personally choose the top 20 hands down mainly because like you said you like it better and you feel like you wouldn't fit well at T50. Secondly, let's be honest, you are smart enough and competitive enough to get into top 20 man, if you apply yourself you can get AOA at either of these schools. Additionally, resources and connection and T20 would probably outweigh just getting AOA at T50 anyway. Thirdly, it's not like you and your girlfriend will be starting together. You'll only be in school together for only 1 year so I don't think that justifies you picking T20 over T50. Lastly, T50 won't close you doors but you are right in that it will be more difficult to match into more competitive residencies and you'll be unwise to give up the prestige and connection of T20 if you are focused on academic career and even more so if it is competitive specialty.

+1 to this.

You won't resent your SO for a life decision you made in case things do go south, and realistically you won't feel burdened to stay with them if things start getting sour because your life decision was based largely on them being at this school. Also, with regards to doors being open, if your SO matches in X city and you guys are at the point where you're ready to get married, being at a T20 + the kind of student you are would (I would think) make things easier so you can have your pick at whatever hospital/specialty combo you wish to do your residency at in order to be with your SO.... So in a way, you are making a considerate decision. Haha.

If you want to think in the most objective way possible I would personally advise to make this decision as if it were solely about which school you would pick if personal matters were not a factor, like a poster above said. That's easier said than done, but your most objective self and toughest critic with regards to this issue is the person you're going to be five-ten years down the line from now.

 

[HalogenFlood]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! Didn't expect so many responses, but you've all given me a lot to think about. We are both 23/24 and pretty young, I know some people do get married this early but we haven't made any strides in that direction at all. I think it's pretty accurate to say that I'd kick myself pretty dang hard if the relationship went south and I was stuck at a school that wasn't the best fit, and was left with going up a steeper uphill battle for more competitive residencies. That being said, I'd also probably kick myself if we broke up because of an LDR (the schools are on opposite coasts). Which is the harder kick is what I have to ponder over now. My SO has been my major supporter for the past 2.5 years, I don't even know if I could've made it into the T20 without them in the first place.

As you all have pointed out, nobody is going to answer this for me. But I really do appreciate the recommendations and points to consider, which reading them all now is starting to make things clearer for me. Hopefully someone else in my unfortunate situation will also benefit from them as well!

 

[ahc336]

School with SO. Easy.

 

[ifnotnowwren]

Thanks everyone for taking the time to respond! Didn't expect so many responses, but you've all given me a lot to think about. We are both 23/24 and pretty young, I know some people do get married this early but we haven't made any strides in that direction at all. I think it's pretty accurate to say that I'd kick myself pretty dang hard if the relationship went south and I was stuck at a school that wasn't the best fit, and was left with going up a steeper uphill battle for more competitive residencies. That being said, I'd also probably kick myself if we broke up because of an LDR (the schools are on opposite coasts). Which is the harder kick is what I have to ponder over now. My SO has been my major supporter for the past 2.5 years, I don't even know if I could've made it into the T20 without them in the first place.

As you all have pointed out, nobody is going to answer this for me. But I really do appreciate the recommendations and points to consider, which reading them all now is starting to make things clearer for me. Hopefully someone else in my unfortunate situation will also benefit from them as well!

Definitely have some frank and open conversations with your SO as well about this and about where your head is at. I know it is scary but I think it will be beneficial and get you both on the same page. A good question to ask them during one such discussion would be "what would you do if you were in my shoes".

 

[KungFuPanda123]

oops! misread post

 

[mimelim]

Besides what everyone else has been saying - have you ever thought about it like this? Attending a top20 will give you a better chance of matching into the location of your choice, giving you a better chance of living with your SO for residency?

This is incorrect. Of the multitude of variables for residency matching, going to a "top 20" vs. "top 50" will not increase your choices in any appreciable way. If the goal is to end up at the same hospital/city, going to the same school is far better.


OP:
As described, this is an obvious, go to school with your significant other. It is not even close. You are far more likely to be successful at the school with your significant other. Your happiness over the medical school years will be higher and you will be more competitive for residencies. I certainly can not speak for every program out there, but I do have 3 years of residency match process experience at a competitive program in a very competitive specialty. Does pedigree matter to many programs? Yes, of course it does. But, things school name drops off significantly after the top 5. And even with top 5, very few applicants will the name matter much, if anything.

 

[KungFuPanda123]

This is incorrect. Of the multitude of variables for residency matching, going to a "top 20" vs. "top 50" will not increase your choices in any appreciable way. If the goal is to end up at the same hospital/city, going to the same school is far better.


OP:
As described, this is an obvious, go to school with your significant other. It is not even close. You are far more likely to be successful at the school with your significant other. Your happiness over the medical school years will be higher and you will be more competitive for residencies. I certainly can not speak for every program out there, but I do have 3 years of residency match process experience at a competitive program in a very competitive specialty. Does pedigree matter to many programs? Yes, of course it does. But, things school name drops off significantly after the top 5. And even with top 5, very few applicants will the name matter much, if anything.

Yup - you're right. For some reason, I thought OP's schools were not that far apart from each other; turns out that they are on opposite coasts.

 

[PugsAndHugs]

Just tell us the schools! These "School A vs School B" posts are NO FUN without actually knowing which schools you are considering.

 

[El-Rami]

Going to a mid-tier school won't prevent you from having a desirable career. Like others said, if your relationship is serious enough, then definitely go to school with your SO. If not, then go to the top 20 school since that seems where you really want to go to school.

Also, for what it's worth, I've known people who have had successful long-distance relationships who were already together long-term. It's difficult, but it if it truly serious enough, it can be worked around (e.g., getting a plane ticket to see each other during time off, etc.). It's something to consider.

 

[ac62994]

I have nothing against T50 school, but if my SO wasn't there, I'd have already made my decision.

 

[sfgiants23]

Where is this list where schools are ranked past from 1-60? and ware they ranked as a whole or by specific characteristics?

 

[The Knife & Gun Club]

My SO and I applied together and even though we both had better opportunities to go to other schools, we decided to go to the lower ranked school that we both got into. Support is very important, and the difference between a top 20ish and a top 50ish is just not that big in my mind.

In my case (Emory vs Miami) I got the feeling that it was really an exercise in splitting hairs once a certain threshold is reached. They'll all have a big important hospital, strong research, good faculty, plenty of connections, etc.

 

[Dr.TonySoprano]

My SO and I applied together and even though we both had better opportunities to go to other schools, we decided to go to the lower ranked school that we both got into. Support is very important, and the difference between a top 20ish and a top 50ish is just not that big in my mind.

In my case (Emory vs Miami) I got the feeling that it was really an exercise in splitting hairs once a certain threshold is reached. They'll all have a big important hospital, strong research, good faculty, plenty of connections, etc.

nice! you're going to Miami for sure? I'm still on the fence about my decision.

 

[thatwouldbeanarchy]

Ultimately, you should choose whichever school will make you happier. But if it were me, I would choose SO's school. Hands down. Every time. But I'm in a committed, long-term relationship and wouldn't be happy spending years apart from my partner. (It's worth asking yourself if that's the case for you, too.)

The difference between Top 20 and Top 50 just doesn't seem significant enough to me. At the end of the day, if you perform well, you'll have a good shot at your desired residency. Rankings are mostly meaningless so there's no reason to believe that the Top 20 school is "better."

 

[cyanide12345678]

Need more information actually.

1) Are you married to your significant other?

2) How far will you be if you went to the top 20.

3) What specialty do you want to go into?

Also, you're mostly wrong in assuming that the top 20 will land you in to Harvard etc...I know plenty of non top 20 people on the interview trail who got invited to better schools than myself. I personally do attend a top 20, graduated top quartile, with mid 240s step 1 and upper 260s step 2. I got invited to places like Harvard, duke, Hopkins, but I know some guys with similar stats to mine from a mediocre school who got interviewed at far far more premiere programs. What eventually matters is how you perform in your medical school. Class quartile, USMLE scores, clerkship grades, deans letter and away rotations (if its a competitive specialty) are the most important factors, not the name brand of the school.

Also, how do you know you want mgh/Hopkins etc? 8 years ago, I would have killed to be at Hopkins. Guess what? It's no. 14 on my rank list right, wasn't too impressed by the program. At the end of the day, a top quartile AOA student from a top 50 school is significantly better off than a average top school candidate. A top 50 school is usually a very solid training school.

 

[cyanide12345678]

I will also say that I did my away rotation at the number one program within my field of choice. There were 6 away rotation students there. The one student who outright shined was someone from a top 100. He did interview at most of the premiere programs within my field of choice to which he applied, while I got far fewer than him (despite pretty solid stats).

 

[Okazaki Frag Grenade]

Is your SO going to be offended/hurt if you go to the top 20?

 

[Terror Billy]

Obviously just a lowly pre-med here, but having family go through the process out of various top 1 (haha), top 20, top 50, and out of top 75 ranked med schools I can say that the person that ended up matching into the best program was the out of top 75 one. they didn't have an SO there, but had a family support system near there and I'm pretty sure that made a big difference.

Even if you are a "gunner" there are plenty of opportunities for you to rub shoulders with the top people in whatever field you're trying to go to, and if you get great board scores everything will take care of itself.

 

[Sand dude]

Hi all,

So I've found myself in a very difficult position, and I have nobody to talk with that wouldn't be extremely biased in one way or another. Long story short, I have narrowed my school decision down to two schools: A top 20 that I thought was terrific, and a school ranked somewhere between 50-65 that my SO of 2.5 years currently attends.

I've given this a TON of thought and it stresses me out every.single.day yet I still cannot decide. On the one hand, T20 school will have better opportunities, connections, etc. On the other hand, I'd have more support at T50 school, plus an easier transition and personal mentor (Aka SO). A current MS3 at T50 that I've spoken with said that while she wouldn't recommend choosing T50 over T20, I'd probably have an easier time getting AOA since not many people are gunners at T50 (I am, I know it, I accept it). This also plays into the whole "fit" issue though - I'm afraid I won't fit in at T50

I know a lower tier school certainly doesn't close any doors for residency, but it's probably going to be a much harder fight - and I know I want to go into a more academic focused practice, so prestige does matter a bit more. I have nothing against T50 school, but if my SO wasn't there, I'd have already made my decision.

Has anyone ever been in a similar situation? Any thoughts/advice would be very helpful. Am I being completely unreasonable for not wanting to go to the same school as my SO?

Did they put a ring on it? If not, then do you. Never let someone take your thunder. Choose top 20.

 

[moisne]

I don't really understand the conflict. You guys have been doing long distance for a year already. You will both be incredibly busy. If you really care about the relationship, I suggest you attend the school you want the most (ignoring the SO), then perhaps she take a research year - and couple match for residency. It's only a few years of long distance - if you guys can't make it, maybe it wasn't meant to be.

 

[ridethecliche]

I think it's time for a frank, face to face, conversation about where you both think the relationship is going.

You're 24, so you're not stupid young so that's good. 2.5 years of what seems to be a pretty fulfilling relationship is nothing to scoff at. Going to schools on opposite coasts pretty much means that it's going to end.

If you think this has the potential to 'move forward' so to speak, you both need to talk about that. It doesn't have to be done right away, but you need to figure out if you're both on similar pages of this relationship.

However, if you don't think this is what you want longer term, you need to end it and go to the school you thought was a better fit.