Top Schools and Older Nontrads

[pomdemonium]

But U Mich currently has at least one student over age FIFTY, and Case Western has also accepted older non-trads.

Last year, I met several people at Case Western's Second Look weekend who were in their 30's, and one was 42. They also have a long tradition of welcoming non-trads--for example, an alumna with whom I had dinner at this year's Second Look went back to med school in the 80's after having had a career in journalism (and I think she had kids, too). She said that the administration was wonderful and she loved the atmosphere there. Of course, I'm a bit biased!

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[Klink]

Maybe my perspective is influenced by the fact that I'm originally from Cali (San Fran), but even with that, comparing DC THE original Chocolate City with Boston is like comparing South Central with Debuke Iowa.

I think you mean Dubuque Iowa.

 

[meehawl]

Do the 'elite' medical schools -- Harvard, Stanford, Cornell, to mention but a few --accept older non-traditional applicants?

I am 37, ex-tech writer with no research background. Did undergrad in Irish and UK universities. Did a post-bacc in NYU for the pre-reqs.

I just withdrew from Einstein, Northwestern, and Pritzker. Currently, I expect to be going to UCSD. An acceptance from the Waitlist (Penn, Sinai, NYU, Cornell) might change that.

My MCAT was middling, my post-bacc GPA was reasonable. I think once you pass the secondary hurdle, the key thing is to distinguish with good essays elaborating on your AMCAS personal statement. At interviews, I'd suspect that many non-trads will tend to perform better than younger applicants. At least, I know that I am a much better interviewee than I was at 22.

 

[Phoenix.]

Old_Boy: When you say research, are talking only lab research? Or do some of those schools "accept" clinical research?

I spent a summer pipetting in a lab TEN years ago, and spent last year enrolling patients in a clinical research study in the ED. Oh, and I'm 32 with a J.D., so definitely non-trad. I'm hoping that if I manage to get a nice MCAT score this summer, my lack of lab research wouldn't get me the immediate boot from schools like U of Chicago and Northwestern, although they'd be incredible crapshoots regardless.

 

[old_boy]

Old_Boy: When you say research, are talking only lab research? Or do some of those schools "accept" clinical research?
I spent a summer pipetting in a lab TEN years ago, and spent last year enrolling patients in a clinical research study in the ED. Oh, and I'm 32 with a J.D., so definitely non-trad. I'm hoping that if I manage to get a nice MCAT score this summer, my lack of lab research wouldn't get me the immediate boot from schools like U of Chicago and Northwestern, although they'd be incredible crapshoots regardless.

I think clinical research is good too, but I don't really know for sure how adcoms distinguish between the two. My guess is that if you do some great lab research and publish it looks the best, but working as a clinical research assistant or coordinator where you get lots of patient contact is probably equally as good or better as being a lab-monkey who just pipets or works on mice all day. Personally, the extent of my research was working as a clinical research cordinator (1/2 clinilcal, 1/2 administrative) for a year and it gave me lots of good things to talk about in interviews, even though I didn't publish or step foot in a lab. Maybe the most important thing is to show a general interest in academic medicine? Who knows. But I got into Northwestern (didn't apply to UChicago). Northwestern isn't as research focused however as other top schools - no thesis requirement or anything. Harvard, Stanford, UCSF, Yale, and Cornell didn't even interview me, which may have had something to do with lack of more substantive research, but I'll be going to another top-10 research school starting in August that even offered me some merit aid. Again, who knows. It's such a crapshoot as to what they're looking for, and I think this is especially true for those like us with a little more life experience.

Good luck with the MCAT!! Flashcards and examkrackers worked well for me, but I'm sure the youngins on the MCAT forum also have good advice.

 

[tbo]

I think clinical research is good too, but I don't really know for sure how adcoms distinguish between the two. My guess is that if you do some great lab research and publish it looks the best, but working as a clinical research assistant or coordinator where you get lots of patient contact is probably equally as good or better as being a lab-monkey who just pipets or works on mice all day.

So I don't have much to add to what old_boy said. I'm personally banking on the fact that clinical research counts for something. In talking to one MD/PhD program director in town, he mentioned that he could care less about the type of research one did, only that you could think scientifically. I suspect that applies to all MD applicants - have you demonstrated an ability to think critically within medicine, learn something from it, and possibly made a contribution to the field (eg. publication)? Clearly the other intangibles such as patient contact and living within a hospital count for something valuable as well.

 

[old_boy]

have you demonstrated an ability to think critically within medicine, learn something from it, and possibly made a contribution to the field (eg. publication)? Clearly the other intangibles such as patient contact and living within a hospital count for something valuable as well.

well said

 

[Trismegistus4]

Hey njbmd, you are forgetting that this SDN crowd thinks that anecdotes of the n=1 variety are meaningless (no matter how many such examples are provided)...they demand "facts" (which they have somehow confused with nothing more than often uninformed opinions), panning nuggets of fools gold through dissections of the USNews rankings and by divining the inner meaning of match lists...

And to njbmd: I would be interested in your opinion on the massive amounts of debt that some of these students "choose" to take on - and I do mean "choose" - when they turn down, say, their state school(s) or a "lesser ranked" private med school offering scholarships for a higher ranked OOS public or private school. Some of the real life examples on SDN blow my mind, involving added debt over 4 years exceeding $100k, in some cases pushing total student loan debts (including UG) over $300k...

You're also forgetting that njbmd is black.

 

[postbacker]

You're also forgetting that njbmd is black.

WTF?

Besides, I can't forget something I never knew, but more importantly, what the hell does that have to do with anything?

 

[QofQuimica]

WTF?

Besides, I can't forget something I never knew, but more importantly, what the hell does that have to do with anything?

I believe what s/he meant to say is that njbmd is an excellent role model: a black female biochemistry PhD with excellent grades and MCAT scores who successfully went to medical school in her forties and now has become a surgeon in her fifties. I have to agree; she *is* a most inspiring example for the rest of us.

 

[Trismegistus4]

I believe what s/he meant to say is that njbmd is an excellent role model: a black female biochemistry PhD with excellent grades and MCAT scores who successfully went to medical school in her forties and now has become a surgeon in her fifties. I have to agree; she *is* a most inspiring example for the rest of us.

No, what I meant is that she is highly sought after because of affirmative action.

 

[2Sexy4MedSchool]

In the first year class from 1-2 years ago at UCSF, there was a 40 year old. In a year prior to that class, there was a 38 year old. There may be more, I don't know. Age is really not that big of an issue for the school. Its probably a bigger issue for the applicant--that is if you feel up to it or not. If you got the drive, then great!

UC's tend to be pretty good towards non-trads.

UC Davis accepted a 37-year-old student for the Class of 2010; assuming I keep up the Geritol & prune juice regimen I should live long enough to graduate with the rest of the whipper-snappers. The best part? I'm not even the class elder; there's another guy who is in his early 40's. One of our class presidents is a 30-something.

I have heard that a 46-year-old woman interviewed for the class of 2011; I don't know if she was accepted or will be attending.

 

[krazymackbk]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.

http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

 

[Trismegistus4]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.

http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

You're giving a thumbs-up for our society publicly celebrating someone who got pregnant out of wedlock at 16, later married but divorced her husband for thinking (probably correctly) that they didn't have the time or money for her to attend college, then took up a slot in med school, no doubt by benefitting from affirmative action, that could have gone to a man who could have used it to support a family, a younger person who'd practice medicine for longer than she will--and, to add insult to injury, "rewarding" her for this by paying off her loans so she can keep all her income while she's practicing as a grandmother?

Well, I'll see your and raise you a .

 

[njbmd]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.

http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

That's pretty cool! Thanks for the links. Just shows that if you put your mind to it, you can do anything. Great story and shows that if you have the grades/academics and the determination, you will get into medical school, graduate and have the career that you want.

 

[QofQuimica]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.

http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

What an incredible story. Thanks for sharing it with us.

 

[notdeadyet]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.

http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

Great tale. I've said it before and I'll say it again now: get to know Oprah.

 

[1Path]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.

http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

Great story and what an inspiration!!!!

I just wish my Mom who grew up in the Jim Crow South era had had an opportunity like that too and I often wonder how many black women who pursued nursing due to "circumstances" could have been MD's too.

 

[relentless11]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.

http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

Never ceases to amaze me how one can overcome challenges. I think even without Oprah's help, she would've still succeeded. After all that, I hardly think $160,000 debt, and an admissions letter to Yale would've stopped her..haha.

Kinda totally trivializes our common hardships here, but definitely makes you complain less on our end to also achieve our goals. There's always someone who has it worse..thats my saying. Good links!

 

[krazymackbk]

You're giving a thumbs-up for our society publicly celebrating someone who got pregnant out of wedlock at 16, later married but divorced her husband for thinking (probably correctly) that they didn't have the time or money for her to attend college, then took up a slot in med school, no doubt by benefitting from affirmative action, that could have gone to a man who could have used it to support a family, a younger person who'd practice medicine for longer than she will--and, to add insult to injury, "rewarding" her for this by paying off her loans so she can keep all her income while she's practicing as a grandmother?

Well, I'll see your and raise you a .

So you're saying that her life should be branded for having a child out of wedlock. She's also supposed to be an impeccable human. Okay, thanks for your judgement and one-sided view. (Whatever... )

 

[Critical Mass]

Post the numbers, and they will want you.

 

[MollyBrown]

Last week, Oprah featured Karen Morris, a 44 year old grandmother (mother of five) who graduated from Yale School of Medicine this spring. She was the first grandmother to do so. Morris decided on medical school after a career in nursing. She's also quite a lucky woman, Oprah is paying off her $160,000 in student loan debt.
http://www.newhouse.com/success-story-inspires-gift-via-oprah.html
http://www.oprah.com/tows/slide/200705/20070509/slide_20070509_350_105.jhtml

Fantastic! Absolutely fantastic!

You have no idea how much reading this has inspired me. I have spent the last year questioning my dreams of attending medical school - mostly because I too will be about 42/43 when I graduate.....and that just sounds so very old sometimes...lol.

At 35 I am now beginning my journey, and will start my first set of pre-reqs this fall. I am very glad I found this board - it has been a wealth of information.




njbmd - great blog.