Touro Middletown vs AZCOM

[GloryVA]

I noticed there was one other thread on this topic and I wanted to post a new one to gather more opinions.

I was accepted to both Touro Middletown and AZCOM and am having trouble picking between the two.

I'm from the East Coast and my friends and family are closer to the Middletown campus but I can't deny the number of resources that AZCOM appears to have. I was wow-ed on my interview day there.

While I'm aware that it's ultimately my choice, I'd just like to hear some thoughts from peers.

AZCOM Pros:
Tuition < Touro Middletown (however, actual cost of attendance values vary so perhaps it's about even? Someone enlighten me)
Resources and facilities seem state of the art
Increased testing provides great structure
More time off
They push for their students to do research and such
Excellent board scores
Chance to offset tuition by being an OMM scholar


Cons:
Class size is much larger - could become just a number to administration/faculty
Not all lectures recorded
Distance from support structure of fam and friends
Monday testing means no weekends, haha.
Geographic bias for matching?




Touro Middletown Pros:
Close to fam and friends
Quiet location
Prerecorded lectures - learn at one's own pace
Combination anatomy labs - with cadaveric, plastinated, and digital approaches

Cons:
More expensive tuition
Since it's so much newer, there are no match stats
Lack of live lecture
Lack of review groups/peer tutoring for courses but since the current class will be "upperclassmen" perhaps they will institute that?

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[s5260205]

Tuition is significantly more expensive for AZCOM (58k vs. 48k), and the overall cost of living is likely comparable for both cities. Money wise, Touro Middletown beats AZCOM any day. However, it is an (almost) brand new campus which partially shares the cons of any other newly opened DO schools. I would still recommend Touro Middletown, however, primarily because of closeness to family and friends and cheaper cost of attendance.

 

[MadridistaI]

I noticed there was one other thread on this topic and I wanted to post a new one to gather more opinions.

I was accepted to both Touro Middletown and AZCOM and am having trouble picking between the two.

I'm from the East Coast and my friends and family are closer to the Middletown campus but I can't deny the number of resources that AZCOM appears to have. I was wow-ed on my interview day there.

While I'm aware that it's ultimately my choice, I'd just like to hear some thoughts from peers.

AZCOM Pros:
Tuition < Touro Middletown (however, actual cost of attendance values vary so perhaps it's about even? Someone enlighten me)
Resources and facilities seem state of the art
Increased testing provides great structure
More time off
They push for their students to do research and such
Excellent board scores
Chance to offset tuition by being an OMM scholar


Cons:
Class size is much larger - could become just a number to administration/faculty
Not all lectures recorded
Distance from support structure of fam and friends
Monday testing means no weekends, haha.
Geographic bias for matching?




Touro Middletown Pros:
Close to fam and friends
Quiet location
Prerecorded lectures - learn at one's own pace
Combination anatomy labs - with cadaveric, plastinated, and digital approaches

Cons:
More expensive tuition
Since it's so much newer, there are no match stats
Lack of live lecture
Lack of review groups/peer tutoring for courses but since the current class will be "upperclassmen" perhaps they will institute that?

Go with the school that has solid match stats.. That's what matters at the end..

 

[hallowmann]

Go with the school that has solid match stats.. That's what matters at the end..

Middletown opened last year, it doesn't have match stats.

 

[WhendoIstartfirstaid?]

My close undergrad buddy goes to touro new york (harlem campus) and he loves their curriculum. Is middletown on the same thing?

Personally, if it was touro-harlem vs azcom, I would say Touro. But since middletown is new, I suggest you go with azcom and bust your butt to specialize and not get buried under the cost of attendance.

 

[MadridistaI]

Middletown opened last year, it doesn't have match stats.

That's my point

 

[GloryVA]

Thanks, everyone, for the responses. I'm still up in the air. I want to return to where I'm from to practice but I also kind of like it out in Cali or Texas etc. But that's a minor consideration, what do people think of the programs in relation to eachother?

Since AZCOM has more testing, I think I might get caught up studying for exam after exam and not learn as effectively. Then again, it would keep you focused. I'm semi-leaning AZCOM but my underlying reasoning is all facilities based, so that kind of kicks me in the butt to be more reasonable and figure out a solid stance.

During my interview day, the AZCOM presenters said they were 3rd in the nation for boards scores or something? Does anyone know how Touro compares to that?

 

[walkonwater]

I'm choosing AZCOM for its match stats and to provide as many opportunities for students to succeed. The latter was much more important to me as it meant that I would be pushed to strive for more. A larger class size doesn't mean it's a bad thing; larger class = larger professional network.

Factor in core rotations before you make a decision. Talking to current students (esp upper years) from the two schools could help too.

 

[jockdoc97]

Thanks, everyone, for the responses. I'm still up in the air. I want to return to where I'm from to practice but I also kind of like it out in Cali or Texas etc. But that's a minor consideration, what do people think of the programs in relation to eachother?

Since AZCOM has more testing, I think I might get caught up studying for exam after exam and not learn as effectively. Then again, it would keep you focused. I'm semi-leaning AZCOM but my underlying reasoning is all facilities based, so that kind of kicks me in the butt to be more reasonable and figure out a solid stance.

During my interview day, the AZCOM presenters said they were 3rd in the nation for boards scores or something? Does anyone know how Touro compares to that?

They aren't one or two, I know that. Haven't they not had a class yet? therefore middletown wouldn't have a class that has taken boards yet.

 

[kp11]

@GloryVA , PM me if you have specific questions about AZCOM (I'm an MS-1)

 

[goldenroc]

AZCOM student here. While here, you will be frustrated, and tired, and longing to get out, but the end result speaks for itself, just look at the match list thread that was posted recently in the match list thread. People can complain about tuition and how other schools are "more established" or "cheaper". But you should compare our match list to any established schools and it will at least match or outshine them in terms of prestige, diversity of specialty, and diversity of location. You get what you pay for. AZCOM has a lot of resources that other schools don't, we have research on campus that is expanding, we have OPTI sites that you can contact to do research, Mayo is 15 minutes away and some people have done research there. And guess what, the point of these opportunities is not actually the research, but to build connections to people who are known in their field. These are all things that premed have very little idea about. Yes, I am sick of paying this school so much money, I will guarantee at least $100k more than students in cheaper schools, but with the opportunities that is available to us, I chose to pay more because I only have one chance in matching into the residency I want, and I need all the resources I can to go against MD kids. If you want something competitive, come here and go hard, if you are happy being community primary care, reconsider how much you want to invest vs. how much you will most likely make.

 

[hallowmann]

...If you want something competitive, come here and go hard, if you are happy being community primary care, reconsider how much you want to invest...

I generally agree with many of your points, but if by this statement you mean to imply that all "cheaper" schools are sending most of their kids to community primary care, you need to reevaluate those match lists again. AZCOM has some solid matches, but there's still plenty of community primary care in there.

 

[goldenroc]

Yes, the majority of the class ends up wanting to be community primary care doc, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, we are a DO school after all and majority of people want to be primary care coming in. We have people with 250+ board scores and top of class rank, they could've gone into very competitive specialties but they chose community fm because that's what they wanted. All I'm saying is for those who choose to do something more competitive, AZCOM would not be a bad place to get what you want.

 

[hallowmann]

...All I'm saying is for those who choose to do something more competitive, AZCOM would not be a bad place to get what you want.

I agree. Honestly in this situation, I'd go to AZCOM, because while tuition is higher there, overall cost won't be that significantly different. Plus you add the fact that AZCOM has been doing its thing for more than 1 yr. The only thing that would hold me back is Touro's proximity to OP's family.

 

[goldenroc]

I agree, family in proximity is definitely an important factor to consider. Incidentally, I think there is a slow but subtle shift of mentality towards going into primary care even in allopathic world, there is good work to be done in that field, also a ton of money to be made if you do it the right way.

 

[wudabum]

Many schools can provide the same "opportunities" that AZCOM provides for a much cheaper price. Seriously, there is nothing special about AZCOM that can justify the insane tuition and the annual 5% tuition increase. At some point you would think that they would stop but good luck calling the top. You don't get what you pay for. Most of the staff at the clinical ed department is incompetent and proves to be more of a hindrance to achieving your goals than any benefit they can provide. Sometimes it's hard to tell if the administration actually has the student's best interests in mind. The school has done nothing to improve 3rd year rotations and is struggling to keep up with the expansion of the other schools in the Phoenix area. See how many ward based rotations will be left in the Phoenix area and see if you think that's impressive. Every school has students with 250+ USMLE scores and matching at great places. The current graduating 4th year class had an average USMLE step 1 score of 217 with a pass rate of 90%. You would think that with the tuition as high as it is that we would at least meet national average. For the product that we receive, tuition should be at least $10,000-$15,000 lower. What is it that actually justifies this tuition? As a current 4th year, I really can't find anything.

 

[NurWollen]

I'd go to AZCOM in this case over a brand new campus. Especially considering that the lower cost of living in AZ will mitigate some of the tuition difference.

AZCOM is a good school... I just wonder sometimes if it's 60k good. It's hard not to wonder where the money is going.

 

[goldenroc]

It's not worth asking where the money goes, it is just chasing down a rabbit hole. I just know the raise in tuition is not a unique AZCOM phenomenon, and it is futile for us still in school to fight it. Maybe some alumni can do something to help?

 

[jockdoc97]

Every school increases tuition every year. Most are around 5% but some have been upwards of 10% and higher

 

[jockdoc97]

But I would choose AZCOM in a heart beat over a new school. no questions asked. I would choose it over most DO schools.

 

[Elevencents]

Every school increases tuition every year. Most are around 5% but some have been upwards of 10% and higher

That is simply not true.

 

[D4C]

The 2015 match list for AZCOM was less than impressive this year, be careful about choosing a school over such things.

 

[jockdoc97]

That is simply not true.

AT still arizona - 10%
Lincoln memorial - 9.8%

 

[hallowmann]

AT still arizona - 10%
Lincoln memorial - 9.8%

Its possible he was referring to the 5% stat. My school increased tuition by like 1-2% (as it seems to do every year), but its known for not making huge tuition increases and for having a very reasonable cost of tuition.

EDIT: After calculating it out, my tuition has consistently increased by 1.5% every year. It seems like that is just the policy every year.

 

[Elevencents]

AT still arizona - 10%
Lincoln memorial - 9.8%

Two is not most. When I applied last year, tuition was a big factor for me. Of the 12 schools I applied to, AZCOM had the highest tuition hike at just shy of 5%. KCU has actually decreased tuition two of the last three years.

 

[jockdoc97]

Two is not most. When I applied last year, tuition was a big factor for me. Of the 12 schools I applied to, AZCOM had the highest tuition hike at just shy of 5%. KCU has actually decreased tuition two of the last three years.

Sorry, average increase is around 3.6%. = Almost every school increases every year. Just as undergrads do. part of life and the education system .

 

[hallowmann]

Two is not most. When I applied last year, tuition was a big factor for me. Of the 12 schools I applied to, AZCOM had the highest tuition hike at just shy of 5%. KCU has actually decreased tuition two of the last three years.

I think the "most" statement was referring to the 5%, not the 10%. Its very possible that "most" is not way off, especially considering you applied to only 1/3 of all DO schools.

I'm not going to spend the time looking through it, but if some pre-med or recently finished first year want to, I wouldn't mind.

 

[GloryVA]

If it helps on this thread debate - I'm aiming for psychiatry. I want to wind up in NY, NJ, or TX for my life goals. I'm not looking to be a cardiothoracic surgeon or something. I'm just trying to figure out if AZCOM's more rapid/intense subject schedule (but higher board scoring) is more favorable vs Touro's "everything is pre-recorded" on a newly founded campus closer to home.

One thing students kept repeating during my day at AZCOMwas to super consider tuition above all because they felt like they could've gotten some things elsewhere but resident friends of mine also keep saying that Touro has 3 other successful campuses so why would this one turn out any different?

 

[hallowmann]

...resident friends of mine also keep saying that Touro has 3 other successful campuses so why would this one turn out any different?

The point of not attending a new school isn't for fear that in the longrun it'll be a bad school, but for the simple fact that every new school IS a "bad" school at first. Things are still being worked out, finalized, professors are shuffled, replaced, etc.; the curriculum is adjusted repeatedly; problems with rotation instability or rotations with docs that have never had students before; and as one of the earlier classes, you will experience a plethora of changing policies. That is what the fear of going to a new school is about. Almost everyone in the first 2-3 classes of a school had to go through some major inconveniences because of a system that was in flux, not just on some aspects, but essentially on everything.

Anyway, given your life goals, you may really want to consider Touro, because if you want to end up in NY/NJ you'll have a better chance of making the connections you need there than in AZ. Only you can make the decision, and once you do, don't look back. Just be happy with your choice, and know that either way, you'll be a DO.

 

[trev5150]

Physical site considerations: Having lived in AZ on and off for the last 17 years, I would recommend asking yourself if you really want to be in PHX if you don't have to be? Unless you're an septogenarian you have to wonder. It gets up to 130F there on the regular. People's tires de-bead on the I-10. How hard do you want to work to stay hydrated? Do you like moisturizer, or do you prefer ashy? My opinion, it's a barren hellscape. Is that worth the money?

That said I will probable end up there due to karma.

 

[Bobcat18]

+1 for AZCOM. I have a few friends who went there and they are very happy with their education. Although I couldn't fathom paying that much in tuition- given your choices I would choose AZCOM hands down.

 

[NurWollen]

The 2015 match list for AZCOM was less than impressive this year, be careful about choosing a school over such things.

You think it was unimpressive? How so? Although I will admit, perhaps the most important take away from AZCOM's match list is the sheer size of it... good marches or bad, we're in huge freakin' class.

 

[Portlandia8]

Physical site considerations: Having lived in AZ on and off for the last 17 years, I would recommend asking yourself if you really want to be in PHX if you don't have to be? Unless you're an septogenarian you have to wonder. It gets up to 130F there on the regular. People's tires de-bead on the I-10. How hard do you want to work to stay hydrated? Do you like moisturizer, or do you prefer ashy? My opinion, it's a barren hellscape. Is that worth the money?

That said I will probable end up there due to karma.

AZ's not so bad. People move there for the very reasonable cost of living. The sun is out almost 300 days a year and it's a dry heat, not sticky humidity. The summers are BAD, April-Oct range from 85-100F+, I'll give you that. You're indoors with AC for the most part so it's freezing cold. But you have warm summer nights. You can see the stars across the vast sky, sunsets spanning across the horizon, thunderstorms, haboobs (dust storms). There are beautiful canyons (there's a place you can visit where Native Americans carved homes into these rock faces) and excellent rock climbing, giant saguaro cacti. You can go hiking and camping -- just not during the summer. It's a whole different world out in the desert. It's not necessarily bad, just different. Personally, I'd prefer that over freezing rain and blizzards. It's not a bad place to spend a few years.

 

[trev5150]

A very few years. It gets real old real quick. My sinuses bleed just from the memory of how dry it is there.

 

[NurWollen]

AZ's not so bad. People move there for the very reasonable cost of living. The sun is out almost 300 days a year and it's a dry heat, not sticky humidity. The summers are BAD, April-Oct range from 85-100F+, I'll give you that. You're indoors with AC for the most part so it's freezing cold. But you have warm summer nights. You can see the stars across the vast sky, sunsets spanning across the horizon, thunderstorms, haboobs (dust storms). There are beautiful canyons (there's a place you can visit where Native Americans carved homes into these rock faces) and excellent rock climbing, giant saguaro cacti. You can go hiking and camping -- just not during the summer. It's a whole different world out in the desert. It's not necessarily bad, just different. Personally, I'd prefer that over freezing rain and blizzards. It's not a bad place to spend a few years.

I agree. Arizona is pretty cool.

 

[D4C]

You think it was unimpressive? How so? Although I will admit, perhaps the most important take away from AZCOM's match list is the sheer size of it... good marches or bad, we're in huge freakin' class.

You know, it's actually not bad, but I get this knee-jerk reaction when I see that many scrambles. So that aside, its a fine list.

 

[NurWollen]

You know, it's actually not bad, but I get this knee-jerk reaction when I see that many scrambles. So that aside, its a fine list.

There did seem to be quite a few scrambles, didn't there? It's hard to know what that means... what their stats were, what they were originally applying to, and so on. But I agree, it was a bit unsettling.