Trauma/General Surgeons salary: why isn't this mentioned?

[EclecticMind]

Considering the fact that doing a fellowship in trauma/cc seems to be evolving into an increasingly popular idea, I would have expected it to be easier to find out more about the pay.

For instance, the trauma surgeons that I know take in-house "trauma call" on an average of 1-2 times/week. They work in a teaching hospital and so are also responsible for teaching surgery residents. In addition, they also maintain full-time schedules with their private practice.

So, considering all of this, what would be a reasonable estimate of their yearly income?

I would like to do trauma, but what I'm wondering is would it be worth undergoing 2 additional years of trauma/cc fellowship, especially considering that CT is also 2 additional years.

If you have ANY information/opinions/advice/etc... regarding trauma surgery, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks

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[SolidGold]

I want to know the same thing. Also, how does doing a vascular fellowship compare to CT or Trauma? I guess common theme is that CT will die in the next couple of decades.

I figure that colon and rectal is the red headed step child of post-general surgery fellowships, but its also something I'm considering because it's only 1 year, its pays fairly significantly better than plain old general surgery, and there is a growing need for them, especially in academic institutions. Its probably the only surgical speciality that will be growing at a fast pace over the next few years, plus its probably one of the few surgical specialities where you can actually "cure" patients and actually improve their quality of life for the majority of your patients. Maybe I'm being unconsciously brainwashed since I'm doing research with a colon and rectal surgeon, but it really seems to make sense to at least consider it.

 

[Vukken99]

Many surgeons feel that it is an honor to be a Surgeon.
Even though in lowering of current salaries for general Surgeons.

Trauma surgeons make around 200K but they work shifts only no calls and all
If you are a director then can be slightly higher...

Some places let you do shifts and plus in your spare time do some general surgery work which can be billed.

General Surgeons potential to make money depends on your creativity.
i did mention this before in other postings.

For example, A general surgeon doing endoscopies in their practice can add substantial additional income. colonoscopy is part of preventive care as you know. GI had stolen from Surgeons this field but I really think Surgeons should do more on this and let their Primary care counterparts to know they are doing it.

Now, the information I am discussing here may upset some old timers.
Because it is sort of trade secret...

I said before developing an unique practice is the key for a good general surgery practice.

Now, CT is a different animal since it is political. Only few centers have the approval of the government to do such procedures. With few centers, and few surgeons controlling it, whoever is the CT surgeon has to be capable by their training to start a program in some remote area away from competition.

Nobody will give you red carpet just because you finished their fellowship and give you a nice teaching hospital job with referral base. it just does not happen that way.

Vascular surgery is good but most of cases I have seen deals with diabetic conditions and dialysis access surgery. You have to have some endovascular training but there are so many of them and even that one is political.

Some places the chief of vascular surgery will not grant you priviledge to do endovascular work..because they themselve don't know it and don't do it.
It is afraid of losing control really.

This is somewhat the reality of what happens after residency in the real world.

 

[EclecticMind]

thank you for the input Vukken99.... very informative.

So would it be right to assume that a trauma surgeon with a private practice with general surgery would make a general surgeons salary PLUS approx. 200K from doing trauma surgery?

 

[Sir Jun]

and being worried about whether you make an extra 100,000 compared to the other subspecialty is a total bunch of bull****. I hope it is just your naivete', and that your feelings will mature as you get into the OR.

I hope that I am not in the same residency as such people who are so money-hungry. You literally bring the field of surgery down.

Dan
MS4 (- one week).

 

[Vukken99]

dont be so quick to judge others....

If you want to practice medicine and surgeon in todays era you have to be flexible and open minded.

I can tell you this from being more senior than you are in training and in practice.

There is not such a thing as stupid answers.

You have to eat like everyone else and pay student loans unless you are rich which I doubt a lot.

General Surgeons are going through very tough times.
I know one surgeon who has to cover three hospital at the same time being oncall to get cases. Those who comes out in magazine with all the glamour of the field does not apply to majority of surgeons.

I know of a surgeon who operated on my stepfather had to close his practice in Atlanta not for malpractice because of difficulty paying his malpractice insurance.

So, I am thinking you should be open minded and respect other people's opinion.

We have to make money so we can pay our student loans, the soaring malpractice premium and mortgages. I am sure you want to own a house too one day like most of us.

let me make a simple calculation:
let's suppose u make 100k during the first year clean;
then student loan payments should be around 1500 a months
Malpractice premium is about 5000k a month
then either you own a house or renting still about 1000 or more a month

This is not counting the car and insurance payment, office rent, personnel and all other miscellaneous stuff.

Now with 100,000 you gonna owe like good 15 to 17k in annual taxes so
you make clean like good 83000 divide that by 12 months you get like good 7000 dollars a month for use. so you gonna tell me 100K is enough?????

I think you have to be realistic.

Nothing wrong in knowing the earning potential.

Business guys are making lot more
and Corporate Lawyers about 450$ an hour

So since we are dealing with the most precious thing in this world and you think we should not get paid.. Think first..

Tell you attendings about what I say if that is not true....

 

[EclecticMind]

very well said... and I appreciate your understanding of where I'm coming from.

Just FYI, I could really care less about the materialistic benefits of a high salary... but what I do care about is that I am going to have a huge loan to pay back because I am attending a privately funded institution. So yes, I do have to consider salary... but in the context of "will it be enough"; not "how rich would I be."

And if I did come across as sounding like "all I care about is making a lot of money"... then my apologies, but I can assure you that is not the case.

 

[Vukken99]

I am glad you can appreciate the real glimpse about being a Surgeon.

I once said to one of my patients, I wish I was really rich..

In old times, medicine was practiced with really holy objectives.

But, what I have seen in many cities is that lawyers and patients are very quick to sue you...All that appreciation goes out to that garbage can...

When you make a small mistake or even there was no mistake you are deemed as the worst doctor in the World.

I guess i am very sympathetic to many out there....

I believe medical education is big scam so it is the residency business.

I am an american grad but the reason why IMGs are not accepted easily is because of the reimbursement issue. Hospital get less money with IMGs.

Plus the hospital is making tons of money from you; medicare education money and plus the direct fruit of your work.

Wise up guys there is no free lunch....

Balance your ideals about the field.....

 

[Sessamoid]

Sorry to butt in on your forums, but I can shed a little light here. Pay for trauma surgeons is fairly variable on geography. In many states, most of trauma involves uninsured patients, particularly the penetrating trauma. But variations in state law can change things considerably. Arizona, for instance, fully funds all level 1 trauma cases, due to some important legislator's daughter dying from inadequate trauma care some years ago. My somewhat educated guess is that Arizona trauma surgeons make serious bank. As a result, there are more Level 1 trauma centers in Phoenix alone than probably all of Texas. In Florida, the auto insurance is all "no-fault", and any insured driver's insurance company will reimburse for trauma care as a result of an MVA. Those guys also do quite well. You kind of have to ask around the places where you'd like to eventually end up settling down.

 

[Yasergale]

Sessa,

you are correct. Unknown to most people, insurance are required to pay the trauma surgeon's fees, whether or not the surgeon is in network or not. That is why my former colleague did not sign with any insurance companies. He does not abide to any preset reinbursements. So basically this is a fee for service (FFS) model for the trauma guys. Realistically, the insurance comp do not pay the full amount but the trauma guys expect that (very similar to the late 70's and 80's).