Treatment during Rotations and Residency?

[TurknJD]

THere are those who still think of a D.O as a "lower degree." I dont realy care what others think, but i do care how they act.For those currently in 3rd and 4th year rotations (especially at NSUCOM, CCOM, PCOM, and NJCOM) Do MD students, interns, and residents treat you worse, just because your a DO, not MD? Same thing for residency? Do you ge treated worse, verbally? Do you get picked for less procedures? do you get yelled at, or have to stay longer?

THis may sound trivial to some. I have no problem getting a DO degree, and id chose the 4 schools listed over many MD programs I am considering. BUT, there is a line to draw if the struggle is significantly more harsh, to get that degree.

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[Rollo]

Yeah, I think you occasionally get placed in a burlap bag and beaten with asparagus...

And I heard they make you were a meat helmet too.

Iguana meat...

 

[JonnyG]

THere are those who still think of a D.O as a "lower degree." I dont realy care what others think, but i do care how they act.For those currently in 3rd and 4th year rotations (especially at NSUCOM, CCOM, PCOM, and NJCOM) Do MD students, interns, and residents treat you worse, just because your a DO, not MD? Same thing for residency? Do you ge treated worse, verbally? Do you get picked for less procedures? do you get yelled at, or have to stay longer?

THis may sound trivial to some. I have no problem getting a DO degree, and id chose the 4 schools listed over many MD programs I am considering. BUT, there is a line to draw if the struggle is significantly more harsh, to get that degree.

No one really cared. I rotated at all the university hospitals in philadelphia and was treated the same as the other students and ended up with great evals everywhere i went. The other medical students were friendly and alot were curious about any differences. The residents didnt care, everyone got ignored or taught the same depending on how busy we were. I got most of my procedures at the smaller hospitals when i was one on one with an attending. I also got more responsibility at the smaller places. Being stupid and getting yelled at is equal oppurtunity.

 

[TexasTriathlete]

There are always reasons for people to hate each other. If someone is an ******* to you because you're a DO/osteopathic student, that same person would probably be an ******* to you for some other reason if you were an MD/allopathic student. So grow some thick skin, because this profession is full of stressed-out type-a *******s who get about 2 hours of sleep a night.

 

[TurknJD]

Yeah, I think you occasionally get placed in a burlap bag and beaten with asparagus...

And I heard they make you were a meat helmet too.

Iguana meat...

What If i dont like asparagus, can I chose something else???

On a more serious note, i guess it depends where you work? anyone know particular instances from the listed school? NSUCOM, Jersey, CCOM, PCOM ? The discrimination still exists, more so from older docs who didnt grow up with DOs really.

 

[ceftazidime]

No difference at all. A med student is a med student. At NSU-COM, a lot of the preceptors at the rotation sites are MDs, and we occasionally work with Univ of Miami and Carribbean students. The only difference in treatment I recognized is when the MD attendings occassionally asked for my recommendation for treatment of a musculoskeletal issue. So in some instances, we're held to a higher standard, which is fine by me.

 

[TeamZissou]

What If i dont like asparagus, can I chose something else???

On a more serious note, i guess it depends where you work? anyone know particular instances from the listed school? NSUCOM, Jersey, CCOM, PCOM ? The discrimination still exists, more so from older docs who didnt grow up with DOs really.

You may find it interesting that Rush has recently adopted a policy where the only osteopathic students they allow to rotate there are CCOM students.

The stigma is still there. However, where it begins and ends as far as treatment and opportunities available to DO's is so shrouded in grey that NO ONE can give you a difinitive answer. All you will get is people arguing that it's happening less and less and as evidence places like Yale and Johns Hopkins regularly take DO's into their programs. Then you will have people argue this isn't correct and point to a place like UCSF which has essentially no, if any, DO's as well as the point that hardly any DO's matched into ACGME Derm, Plastics, ENT, Ortho last year. However, then when you look at the majority of students who went for these specialties last year you will find that many of them say it wasn't worth passing up a sure thing in the DO match and thus they were automatically withdrawn from the ACGME match. So no one will ever know what would have happened.

My point is you are just going to get a lot of here say stories and a few statistics (which will support whatever side people want them to).

Just do what you feel.

 

[JonnyG]

What If i dont like asparagus, can I chose something else???

On a more serious note, i guess it depends where you work? anyone know particular instances from the listed school? NSUCOM, Jersey, CCOM, PCOM ? The discrimination still exists, more so from older docs who didnt grow up with DOs really.

i am a fourth year at pcom and most people i know at the school feel the same way if not all of them.

 

[EastWestN2grt]

Have you ever heard of the OMT technique called the DO Backhand Bi*ch slap, non-neutral, flexion, sidebend right, rotation right.

This is exactly why no MD or FMG students would ever say s*it directly to you in your face....

 

[TXDO]

THere are those who still think of a D.O as a "lower degree." I dont realy care what others think, but i do care how they act.For those currently in 3rd and 4th year rotations (especially at NSUCOM, CCOM, PCOM, and NJCOM) Do MD students, interns, and residents treat you worse, just because your a DO, not MD? Same thing for residency? Do you ge treated worse, verbally? Do you get picked for less procedures? do you get yelled at, or have to stay longer?

THis may sound trivial to some. I have no problem getting a DO degree, and id chose the 4 schools listed over many MD programs I am considering. BUT, there is a line to draw if the struggle is significantly more harsh, to get that degree.

I used to do internship at a pro-DO hospital where there were few MD students. I am sure they would think like you think right now for DO students.
Bottom line: noone cares what you are, people cares who you are and how you will represent yourself to them.

 

[TXDO]

What If i dont like asparagus, can I chose something else???

The discrimination still exists, more so from older docs who didnt grow up with DOs really.

Seriously, I don't give a **** to these old, narrow-mind docs. Be yourself and do the best you can. If there is something happen, report to admin. office. Remember we are in year of 2009 not 1900 when DO just established.

 

[TXDO]

There are always reasons for people to hate each other. If someone is an ******* to you because you're a DO/osteopathic student, that same person would probably be an ******* to you for some other reason if you were an MD/allopathic student. So grow some thick skin, because this profession is full of stressed-out type-a *******s who get about 2 hours of sleep a night.

I agreed to this response, be a DO or MD is no longer an issue. Medicine is very stressful profession. You will be insulted, pimped and humiliated all the time regardless who you are and what school you are from. Thick skin is all you need when MS-3 year comes around.
"In Surgery rotation, you are not a medical student, you are a RETRACTOR BITCH!" . I love this quote.

 

[bkpa2med]

Have you ever heard of the OMT technique called the DO Backhand Bi*ch slap, non-neutral, flexion, sidebend right, rotation right.

This is exactly why no MD or FMG students would ever say s*it directly to you in your face....

That was awesome!

Where Brooklyn at!

 

[thanecyan]

Yeah, I think you occasionally get placed in a burlap bag and beaten with asparagus...

And I heard they make you were a meat helmet too.

Iguana meat...

LOL specifying that it was iguana meat made me crack up!

 

[Octagonecology]

At the hospital I work at each morning all the D.O. students line up in front of the didactic conference room.

Then all of the M.D. students are allowed to kick them repeatedly in the billiards until their legs get tired.

Othere than that there really are no differences at all.

 

[drmsm]

THere are those who still think of a D.O as a "lower degree." I dont realy care what others think, but i do care how they act.For those currently in 3rd and 4th year rotations (especially at NSUCOM, CCOM, PCOM, and NJCOM) Do MD students, interns, and residents treat you worse, just because your a DO, not MD? Same thing for residency? Do you ge treated worse, verbally? Do you get picked for less procedures? do you get yelled at, or have to stay longer?

THis may sound trivial to some. I have no problem getting a DO degree, and id chose the 4 schools listed over many MD programs I am considering. BUT, there is a line to draw if the struggle is significantly more harsh, to get that degree.

FYI, UMDNJ-SOM 3rd year is completely in the Kennedy/Lourdes system. This is a DO only residency program/system. Some of the attendings are MDs, but 85-90% of physicians there are DOs. Therefore, no bias exists. All visiting students (KCUMB, VCOM, PCOM) are also osteopathic.

In 4th year, when I went on my elective/outside rotations, it depended on the hospital. I really didn't get any flak from any attendings, in the PA/NJ/DE area that I rotated in DOs get equal respect. Students I worked with, however, if I got praise above them, (MD Students, i mean) were a little snippy at times, as if they were better in some way. Primarily some Jefferson students. Otherwise, I never felt discriminated against, actually, sometimes I felt like they expected a little less and when I was equal or above the MD students they were really impressed.

As for residency, most fields (Peds, OB, IM, FP) are pretty equal with MD/DO selection (depends on location and program, of course....Penn and Jeff are pretty anti-DO in some programs). ACGME programs in Surg, Rads, Derm, it's far tougher to get spots, but some people do get in. The fact that you have to take both COMLEX and USMLE makes it more difficult.

Good luck,
M

 

[toothless rufus]

I agreed to this response, be a DO or MD is no longer an issue. Medicine is very stressful profession. You will be insulted, pimped and humiliated all the time regardless who you are and what school you are from. Thick skin is all you need when MS-3 year comes around.
"In Surgery rotation, you are not a medical student, you are a RETRACTOR BITCH!" . I love this quote.

I am a strong proponent of "do unto others as you would have done onto you." You get what you give.

 

[scurred09]

Consider yourself lucky my friend. A friend of mine who is a 4th yr DO student continues to get his nipple twisted by MD students. Beware the DO route and protect your nipples at all time.

At the hospital I work at each morning all the D.O. students line up in front of the didactic conference room.

Then all of the M.D. students are allowed to kick them repeatedly in the billiards until their legs get tired.

Othere than that there really are no differences at all.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

I rotated on the same general surgery service at County hospital that the Rush students rotated at. All of them besides one, were totally cool, and the other wasn't cool just because he was a super nerd....no one EVER said anything about being a DO. We split the list evenly. No one did more, no one did less.

 

[Buckeye(OH)]

You may find it interesting that Rush has recently adopted a policy where the only osteopathic students they allow to rotate there are CCOM students.

The stigma is still there. However, where it begins and ends as far as treatment and opportunities available to DO's is so shrouded in grey that NO ONE can give you a difinitive answer. All you will get is people arguing that it's happening less and less and as evidence places like Yale and Johns Hopkins regularly take DO's into their programs. Then you will have people argue this isn't correct and point to a place like UCSF which has essentially no, if any, DO's as well as the point that hardly any DO's matched into ACGME Derm, Plastics, ENT, Ortho last year. However, then when you look at the majority of students who went for these specialties last year you will find that many of them say it wasn't worth passing up a sure thing in the DO match and thus they were automatically withdrawn from the ACGME match. So no one will ever know what would have happened.

My point is you are just going to get a lot of here say stories and a few statistics (which will support whatever side people want them to).

Just do what you feel.

This is a good point. From the ortho side of things, I know of only ONE person that passed up a DO spot to try for an MD spot (he got it).

 

[Cp22kjer]

There are always reasons for people to hate each other. If someone is an ******* to you because you're a DO/osteopathic student, that same person would probably be an ******* to you for some other reason if you were an MD/allopathic student. So grow some thick skin, because this profession is full of stressed-out type-a *******s who get about 2 hours of sleep a night.

So true. Sex, age, ethinicity, where you graduated from (uG and Med school), etc, etc, will all be prevalent throughout this path.