Trump, Doctors and Taxes.

[facted]

You're thinking of the Republicans.

Indeed. I missed the previous post about libertarians. With libertarians I don't have to go much further than the ill-conceived concept of the gold standard.

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[DoctwoB]

Indeed. I missed the previous post about libertarians. With libertarians I don't have to go much further than the ill-conceived concept of the gold standard.

 

[PainDrain]

Come on in, the water's fine.

We do have a little bit of a problem with a fringe anarchist wing that worships Ayn Rand, but mostly, we're the sane parts of the secular Republicans and the non-handwringing Democrats. Civil rights (all of them), personal responsibility, smoke or snort or inject 'em if you got 'em, non-interventionist foreign policy, actually small government that's actually fiscally disciplined, what's not to like?

OK, maybe a little too much faith in the free market and the wholesome intentions of corporations. Nobody's perfect.

Oh and don’t forget a non-existent environmental policy.

 

[pgg]

Indeed. I missed the previous post about libertarians. With libertarians I don't have to go much further than the ill-conceived concept of the gold standard.

Yeah ...

Gold bugs, anarchists, and selfish Ayn Rand bootstrappers are the shame of our party.

 

[PainDrain]

Indeed. I missed the previous post about libertarians. With libertarians I don't have to go much further than the ill-conceived concept of the gold standard.

I find it funny that libertarians want a return to the gold standard but are the same group who push virtual currencies such as bitcoin, a currency backed by absolutely nothing.

 

[PainDrain]

Yeah ...

Gold bugs, anarchists, and selfish Ayn Rand bootstrappers are the shame of our party.

Although I find some aspects of libertarianism appealing its these things I cannot get past. The Rand cult is perhaps the most difficult to look past.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I find it funny that libertarians want a return to the gold standard but are the same group who push virtual currencies such as bitcoin, a currency backed by absolutely nothing.

Most of us don't buy into the gold standard

 

[WisNeuro]

Although I find some aspects of libertarianism appealing its these things I cannot get past. The Rand cult is perhaps the most difficult to look past.

Rand libertarianism has zero understanding of human behavior as it relates to economics. Well, actually, most of her ideas are devoid of understanding of human behavior and how populations will act given certain choices. It's on my list of "Things you should have outgrown by sophomore year in college."

 

[PainDrain]

Rand libertarianism has zero understanding of human behavior as it relates to economics. Well, actually, most of her ideas are devoid of understanding of human behavior and how populations will act given certain choices. It's on my list of "Things you should have outgrown by sophomore year in college."

The best quote I have ever read regarding Rand: "There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs."

 

[vector2]

Yeah ...

Gold bugs, anarchists, and selfish Ayn Rand bootstrappers are the shame of our party.

The poster boys being Rand Paul and Gary Johnson doesn't help either

 

[pgg]

The poster boys being Rand Paul and Gary Johnson doesn't help either

Gary Johnson is a good guy. I would’ve liked to have seen him win.


Anyway. There’s a lot more diversity, if you will, in the libertarian party ban in either the Democrat or Republican. It’s not hard to find a crazy person who identifies as a libertarian, and on the whole the party is probably too laissez faire.

Looking at how completely dysfunctional the other two parties are however ... pick your poison.

 

[DoctwoB]

Gary Johnson is a good guy. I would’ve liked to have seen him win.


Anyway. There’s a lot more diversity, if you will, in the libertarian party ban in either the Democrat or Republican. It’s not hard to find a crazy person who identifies as a libertarian, and on the whole the party is probably too laissez faire.

Looking at how completely dysfunctional the other two parties are however ... pick your poison.

How do (the more reasonable) libertarians approach classic market failures? The free market is great when conditions for a free market are met, but all too often that isn’t the case. For example, what would a libertarian say about cable companies or airlines merging to form a natural monopoly or oligopoly or similar anticompetitive practices. Likewise what does a libertarian approach to healthcare look like in our setting of consolidating insurance companies and hospital systems, once again for the purposes or limiting competition.

 

[GravelRider]

How do (the more reasonable) libertarians approach classic market failures? The free market is great when conditions for a free market are met, but all too often that isn’t the case. For example, what would a libertarian say about cable companies or airlines merging to form a natural monopoly or oligopoly or similar anticompetitive practices. Likewise what does a libertarian approach to healthcare look like in our setting of consolidating insurance companies and hospital systems, once again for the purposes or limiting competition.

This is my problem with the Ayn Randian idea of the "free market." The end result is almost always monopolies, cartels, and nothing that resembles free market competition. A well functioning free market should look more like a 1980s era Big East basketball game...tough, hard-nosed competition with referees that make sure everyone is playing by the rules, but not interfering with the outcome of the game. Secular libertarianism has a lot of ideas that I can get behind. Unfortunately libertarianism in its purest form is not all that different from socialism in that it is really just a utopian pipe dream that doesn't really work in real life.

At least with this tax bill, the GOP is showing who they really work for. One of the features of the House tax bill is to tax college tuition benefits. So a PhD student receiving a stipend for teaching assistant activities can be taxed on both the stipend and the waived tuition. So let me get this straight...Republicans want to give out school vouchers so people can send their kids to schools that teach creationism instead of science, but we are going to do everything we can to discourage real higher education? Don't get me wrong, there needs to be some major reform in higher education, but taxing students is not the answer.

 

[pgg]

How do (the more reasonable) libertarians approach classic market failures? The free market is great when conditions for a free market are met, but all too often that isn’t the case. For example, what would a libertarian say about cable companies or airlines merging to form a natural monopoly or oligopoly or similar anticompetitive practices. Likewise what does a libertarian approach to healthcare look like in our setting of consolidating insurance companies and hospital systems, once again for the purposes or limiting competition.

As I alluded to earlier, I think excessive faith in a completely unregulated totally free market is the chief weakness of the party. Regulations I believe in that many libertarians don't include things like a livable minimum wage, strong anti-trust / anti-monopoly laws, strong environmental protections, building codes, workplace safety regulations, etc. It's pretty clear that pure unrestrained capitalism gives us robber barons and serfs with fewer than 10 fingers.


As for healthcare ... obviously it isn't a simple problem that can be solved or even adequately described in a few sentences.

Obamacare is a miserable failure in large part because it upended an insurance market that was only barely functional in the first place by applying a bunch of extra rules and conditions that defy 3rd grade math concepts. But the root of its failure is that we're still working with a system that thinks "insurance" is the right word/system to apply to a service
1) that everyone should use every year (for preventive treatment), and
2) that everyone will almost certainly use at some point in their lives (for non-preventive treatment), and
3) for which people who need it once will almost certainly need much more of it
"Insurance" is a concept that is properly applied to a potential need that is unpredictable, with a low risk of occurrence, but high expense when it does occur. That's not healthcare. Having health insurance companies at all is kind of an ass backwards way manage the money in this kind of system.

My opinion on the whole thing has changed over time, but on this particular Friday, I think the best answer is taxpayer funded care for everyone, with hard caps (yes, death panels!!! oooh!!!). Given that, I'm on board with the libertarian ideal of a free and minimally regulated market for individuals to pay cash for what they need or want sooner or under different conditions of their choosing, and/or purchase actual insurance for needs or wants that exceed the public system caps.

 

[PainDrain]

As I alluded to earlier, I think excessive faith in a completely unregulated totally free market is the chief weakness of the party. Regulations I believe in that many libertarians don't include things like a livable minimum wage, strong anti-trust / anti-monopoly laws, strong environmental protections, building codes, workplace safety regulations, etc. It's pretty clear that pure unrestrained capitalism gives us robber barons and serfs with fewer than 10 fingers.

I can get behind this type of libertarianism.