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Trump, Doctors and Taxes.

Discussion in 'Anesthesiology' started by sevoflurane, Nov 30, 2016.

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  1. PainDrain

    PainDrain 2+ Year Member

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    Funny, I have yet to see a logical argument coming from you. It's been a nonstop cheering session for a president the vast majority, right and left, seem to see as a total failure. His approval rating is in the toilet.
     
    facted likes this.
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  3. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Oh geez....
     
  4. pgg

    pgg Laugh at me, will they? Moderator 10+ Year Member

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    Home Again
    First rule of internet debating (serious_business_cat.jpg): You’re not arguing to convince your opponent; he has a strong opinion and his mind is made up. You’re arguing to convince the lurkers. Many of them are unsure, and can be influenced by a reasoned argument.
     
  5. FFP

    FFP Grunt, cog, body, pompous ass Gold Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    the opposite pole
    Why does kneeling disrespect the flag? To me, if anything, kneeling is a more uncomfortable and humiliating position than standing. It doesn't show disrespect, unless one thinks that not standing or not holding one's hand over one's heart is disrespectful or unpatriotic or any other shallow BS. Or that saying the pledge of allegiance every morning by schoolchildren is normal. Or that singing the anthem before every NFL game, or other non-international sporting event, is normal. If anything, the latter two dilute the meaning of true patriotism, and the freedoms our heroes died for.

    I haven't seen stuff like this except in authoritarian regimes or during major wars. Thinking like an authoritarian is nothing to be proud of, when one's country was founded by luminaries like those who wrote our Bill of Rights, especially the first amendment. It's almost shameful, 226 years later. If I had died for our Constitution, I would be terribly pissed to see people applauding uniformity of thinking a la Handsmaid's Tale. These people died so that we can be FREE.

    One can argue that a football game is not the best place for politics and that's an argument that I would buy. But disrespecting the flag, that's one I don't.

    Btw, those of you who are so patriotic on this thread, please don't forget to apply for a VA or military job. That's where you find some of those heroes you say you respect so much, the ones the flag stands for. Put your money where your mouth is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2017
  6. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    Kneeling with your hand over your heart during the national anthem doesn't disrespect the flag. This is propaganda bs talk from white supremacists/racists who are jealous and angry that BLACK ATHLETES, who they view to be of inferior intelligence and genes, would dare to stand and voice a certain issue using the NFL national platform. This is coming from a veteran who has been to the sandbox.
     
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  7. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    Since I know counting is hard, I'll break it down for you. Statement one: I'll never understand why poor Middle Americans think a rich Northeasterner gives a rat's @ss about how well off they are. Statement two (obviously specific to Trump): If he cared about lower/middle class Americans, he wouldn't hire immigrants to work at his estates, and he would pay Americans when they do work for him instead of avoiding paying them and/or suing them.

    This literally is contrary to everything every US intelligence agency has said. Maybe if you got your news from somewhere besides RT and Sputnik and respected the sacrifice and hard work of our military and intelligence agencies, you'd understand that. Why do you hate America?
     
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  8. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    There you liberals go again, inserting the race issue. Are you suggesting the majority of Americans are white supremacists or racist because the majority of Americans feel this protest is inappropriate?
     
  9. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Your comment was clearly directed at Trump, but nice attempt to back track after your snide comment made you look foolish.

    James Clapper and many in the intelligence community can't be trusted, as is clear from when he lied under oath. Not everyone has to play by the same set of rules. Putin walked all over Obama and Hillary would have let Putin do whatever he wanted for the right size donation to the Clinton Foundation.
     
  10. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    The majority of Americans don't give a damn. Not acknowledging the national athem and the flag is disrespecting our culture and the sacrifices made by our service women and men. Taking a knee while still acknowledging the flag and the national them isn't the same thing. Yes, I would suspect that all the people out there making a big issues out of this to be potential white supremacists and racists. The reason for this kind of behavior is more like:

    "STFU N-word... You're being paid millions to play a child game. You should be happy about your current situation so stfu bc you're black and should be glad that you're not in Africa..."

    I don't need to go into more details about this sort of thinking. The reason for this kind of hatred is because they were taught by their predessors about white privilege, and yet they're poor uneducated people struggling to survive. Our current reality is a complete opposite of their expectations. Then, they see successful black people taking a stand on national TV about a current hot topic. The current childish behavior made by these Americans are more from their rage and jealousy that successful black people dare to voice their opinions on national TV. These people expect black successful people to be Uncle Tom house African Americans.

    Do you see successful white people like Jerry Jones caring much about his players taking a knee on national TV? The majority of Americans don't care...
     
  11. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    Clinton wouldn't have "drained the swamp" any more than Trump has. They both are are primarily interested in maintaining the status quo for their rich elite cadre. That's not what we're discussing. Well, you're discussing it, with yourself.

    I'm more curious about how you justify being offended when people "disrespect the flag" by kneeling, but you personally don't respect the sacrifices that our military/intelligence community have made for our country. Do you also think poorly of veterans who were POWs, like your man-crush? Kaepernick is ten times the American you are.
     
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  12. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    If we go to war which I highly doubt bc Trump is a straight up wuss who just talks big, I want Eric Trump, Donald Trump Jr, and Jared Kushers to lead our troops on the frontline. Zero chance of that happening.
     
    RadOncDoc21 likes this.
  13. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Majority do care, you're simply wrong.

    CNN poll: Americans split on anthem protests - CNNPolitics

    Other polls have been done with similar results. The rest of your post is just rambling liberal garbage based on fantasy.
     
  14. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    facted likes this.
  15. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    You can't be taken seriously. Nearly all of your posts are mindless personal attacks that do very little to engage in meaningful discussion. You have no idea who I am or what type of American I am.
     
  16. Precedexed Out

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    "Overall, 49% say the protesting players are doing the wrong thing to express their political opinion when they kneel during the National Anthem, while 43% say it's the right thing"

    So yes, 49% is the majority in this poll. Nice try.

    A Fox News poll showed an even wider gap.
     
  17. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    I would like to point out this is another example of more personal attacks lacking any real substance. AKA, more liberal cheap shots.
     
  18. 68PGunner

    68PGunner 5+ Year Member

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    I have done my part w/ one tour. Show me your DD214 before I take you seriously. If you have never been in the military, you, as well as other Americans who are blowhards w/o any battle scar, don't have the credibility to talk about patriotism and sacrifices made by our men and women.
     
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  19. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    Unless you are not being sincere with your posts, I think you have made it abundantly clear who you are and what type of American you are. The only reason you can't take me seriously is because you can't comprehend arguments that originate outside your echo chamber. I think that's what you would call "Liberal 101."
     
  20. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Weelll.......
    Poll: Americans divided on NFL protests
    48% say respectful protest
    46% disagree

    PBS/Marist poll
     
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  21. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    I thought this thread was about taxes.:)
     
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  22. Pooh & Annie

    Pooh & Annie Member 10+ Year Member

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    What’s the over-under tomorrow, and I am absolutely serious about this, for the president to say “you love me here in Las Vegas, right?”

    And would it matter to anyone?
     
  23. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Moneyline -300
     
  24. Painted

    Painted 2+ Year Member

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    If Trump would have shown his tax returns immediately, it would never have been an issue. Seems a little suspicious to avoid revealing such a simple document for so long. It has nothing to do with race.....
     
  25. Precedexed Out

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    Tax returns are not a requirement to become president. I don't blame him for not releasing them. Two reason. 1. With the crooked slanted dishonest media, nothing benefiting him would have happened. 2. If there was anything "bad" or illegal the IRS would have already audited him and/or someone from the IRS would have leaked it. So either way, it doesn't matter much.
     
  26. Precedexed Out

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    You don't make arguments. You skip the adult dialogue and resort immediately to name calling.
     
  27. Precedexed Out

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    Wrong. I have not been in the military, but know many family and friends who have been in the military recently or currently are. My family has served in the military for at least the last three generations so I am absolutely entitled to my opinion. Everyone I know, including those in the military, believe this is disrespectful. Your n=1, you do not represent the military as a whole.

    And again, another condescending response that avoids engaging in meaning discussion. Not surprised.
     
  28. sheeed

    sheeed ASA Member 7+ Year Member

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    It was never about disrespecting the flag. Anyone with a brain could figure that out. The disrespect angle is simply a bastardization of Kap's original message. I'm not really sure whether its being intentionally done to avoid initiating discussion about the social injustices Kap is trying to inform people about or people simply being willfully obtuse.
     
  29. PlutoBoy

    PlutoBoy Sic transit gloria mundi 7+ Year Member

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    Releasing a birth certificate to the public is not a requirement to become president either.
     
  30. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Look. I would like to think SDN is full of relatively intelligent people who actually do want to have a discussion, but no one can have a discussion with someone who so defensive about their platform. I say, "Kaep kneeling is meant to bring awareness and start a discussion on social injustice" but you respond, "Disrespectful millionaire who should play football and shut up." and then anyone who defends Kaepernick is just a "liberal" promoting a "dishonest media".

    That's not even close to engaging a discussion, and my examples are just paraphrasing what I've been reading. If you really want to have a discussion, the let's actually discuss. I'm well aware that I'll never change your mind just like you'll never change mine. But the goal of discussion is that one side sees the other's perspective. My giving me perspective and then getting a response of "you wrong", that's not discussing, that's arguing, and arguing doesn't get anyone anywhere.
     
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  31. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    Exactly what names have I called you? I have questioned your reading comprehension (and joked about your Russian allegiances) but you keep making posts like these that just prove that point.

    It appears that you are more interested in playing the victim card than having real, meaningful discussion. You have dodged or obfuscated many rational arguments and contributed none of your own, other than Trump won (true), Hillary is not trustworthy (true), and that players bringing politics into sports personally offends you. You have also demonstrated a poor understanding of what true patriotism is, as well as in-depth analysis of many other issues being discussed.

    If it feels like I'm trolling you to get a rise out of you, that is partly true, but by pushing you I'm also giving you the opportunity to articulate your thoughts and opinions, and you're not exactly making the most of those chances. If you're getting frustrated or feeling like people aren't understanding you, maybe instead of getting defensive and assuming everybody else is an idiot, you should find out why that is. It could be that your ideas are just illogical or poorly thought out, but presumably you are bright enough to get into medical school, so maybe you just need to do a better job of getting your point across.

    Or maybe you're just a troll, and I'm wasting my time, but as others have said, this isn't really for you, anyway, it's for everyone else reading it
     
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  32. Precedexed Out

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    You are critical of me, where are you when someone calls me "racist?" I know, silent, so I don't take anything you stated above seriously. You only have a problem with me because I don't agree with you. If my tone and approach was the same, but arguing the opposite side (your side), you wouldn't have any problems. I never once said Kaepernick should "shut up." That is you misrepresenting what I have stated.
     
  33. Precedexed Out

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    How does the bold text do anything other than serve as a distraction for the discussion and attempt to belittle me?

    You make no attempt to understand me, which is quite obvious when you question my reading comprehension and Russian allegiances. You could make an attempt to understand the other side, but you don't seem to care since your premise is that I can't comprehend. My point in emphasizing that Trump won is that I'm not the only person who thinks this way. Not even close, most of my world view is shared my millions in this country, about the same percentage that share yours, so don't belittle it and say I'm "just illogical or poorly thought out."
     
  34. Precedexed Out

    Precedexed Out Banned Banned Account on Hold

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    Being born in the US is a requirement and can be demonstrated with a birth certificate.
     
  35. Precedexed Out

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    So, am I racists against black or white people? Since, he is equally both.
     
  36. WholeLottaGame7

    WholeLottaGame7 10+ Year Member

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    Right here.
    Interesting that you call it the "other side," which is informative in and of itself, since most of my family share your worldview and I don't think of them as the "other side." However, unlike you, most of them actually make rational arguments that demonstrate at least some thoughtfulness on the subject (i.e, "I don't agree with Trump but he'll appoint Gorsuch to maintain the balance of the Supreme Court which is important to me.")

    So, you can start making reasonable arguments that people will actually debate, or you can keep going down the current path of futility. I at least try to analyze people and arguments rationally and piecemeal, for instance, while I think Trump is an idiot and history will probably view him as one of, if not the worst US President, I can at least say that not everything he's done has been terrible. For example, Trump's stance towards North Korea is probably far more realistic than most of the prior administrations. Meanwhile, the impression I get from you is that Hillary Clinton could dive in front of a semi-truck to save a group of kindergarteners, and you'd criticize her for messing up the bumper.

    So again, prove me (and others) wrong. Stop being a troll and contribute something of substance to the discussion.
     
  37. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    I tried.
    [​IMG]
     
  38. PlutoBoy

    PlutoBoy Sic transit gloria mundi 7+ Year Member

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    Missing the point.
     
  39. Precedexed Out

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    Yes, you are missing the point. You'll never see it because your premise is that questioning anything about a black person is racist. Even if they are half black and half white.
     
  40. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    I question all sorts of black people all the time, including the biracial ones. Am I racist?
     
  41. Precedexed Out

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    Maybe you should go back and read what I have stated and you have stated. Then think about what you stated in this post. Your idea of rational vs irrational is entirely subjective. By default, anything I say is irrational and therefore you dismiss it by calling me "a troll."

    How can you even think of Trump possibly the "worst US president?" He hasn't held the office for a year yet, judging him at this point is premature. Stating anything different is just inflammatory rhetoric (you're good at that) which is entirely subjective based solely on your opinion.
     
  42. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 7+ Year Member

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    So asking for Obama’s birth certificate was just a normal question to ask?
     
  43. Precedexed Out

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    Unlike others on here, I'm not going to call you racist because I don't know you and the great majority of Americans aren't racist. Chances are very good you're not racist.

    Why is questioning the birth place of someone racist? Especially someone with a Kenyan father who spent a good portion of his childhood being raised outside the US?
     
  44. Twiggidy

    Twiggidy ASA Member 2+ Year Member

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    Trump's Approval Rating Just Hit a New Low. See How He Stacks Up Against Past Presidents

    Actually, he’s right on par with Gerald Ford.....for what it’s worth
     
  45. Precedexed Out

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    Normal? No. Racist? No. Given the circumstances of his family and childhood, inappropriate? No.
     
  46. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 7+ Year Member

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    We def don’t need 4 years to see how bad of a president (and person) he really is. Even if he worked at McDonalds, he would have been fired.

    Dude has no leadership qualities, he lies, and he is an idiot!
     
  47. Precedexed Out

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    Sure, and these are the same types of polls that gave Trump no chance at winning last year. His poll numbers now don't matter anyways. The outcome of problems like North Korea, taxes, healthcare, and environmental concerns will have more of an impact than anything he has done so far.
     
  48. Precedexed Out

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    Billionaire businessman with no leadership qualities. Do you realize how absurd that sounds?

    You didn't need one day to see how "bad" he would be because you had your mind made up before inauguration.
     
  49. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 7+ Year Member

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    North Korea- nuc war. Taxes-likely fail with tax cuts to most wealthy and a possible increase with middle class. Healthcare- failed, failed, failed. Environment- He will succesfully make it worse.
     
  50. PlutoBoy

    PlutoBoy Sic transit gloria mundi 7+ Year Member

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    Huh? Are you playing the race card now? The fact is that no candidate is required to publicly release their birth certificate just like they are not required to release their tax records.

    Is this making you a little uncomfortable?
     
  51. RadOncDoc21

    RadOncDoc21 7+ Year Member

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    So being born rich makes you a leader... Which sounds more absurd?

    You’re right, I always knew he was an idiot and would make a bad president.
     

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