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Trying to rile people up again....

SSdoc33

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Don't spend too much time discussing/listening to political news. It will make you bitter in the long run and there are far, far more interesting things to which one can devote time.

NO ONE changes their political views after they have reached maturity. So attempts to persuade/educate people to whatever your particular persuasion may be is pointless.
 
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SSdoc33

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Don't spend too much time discussing/listening to political news. It will make you bitter in the long run and there are far, far more interesting things to which one can devote time.

NO ONE changes their political views after they have reached maturity. So attempts to persuade/educate people to whatever your particular persuasion may be is pointless.

most dont change their stripes. some do, however. the point of my post wasnt that to try to get people to switch parties, but more to point out that fox news is a propaganda arm of the right. yes, there are also left-leaning outlets, of course. but this example is a particularly disgusting example of journalistic deception -- pandering to its audience with lies.

i also find it amusing that you single me out with your words of wisdom when most "political" posts and posters are right-leaning. i wonder why that is?
 
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TheLoneWolf

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most dont change their stripes. some do, however. the point of my post wasnt that to try to get people to switch parties, but more to point out that fox news is a propaganda arm of the right. yes, there are also left-leaning outlets, of course. but this example is a particularly disgusting example of journalistic deception -- pandering to its audience with lies.

i also find it amusing that you single me out with your words of wisdom when most "political" posts and posters are right-leaning. i wonder why that is?


"pandering to its audience with lies."

All news outlets do this routinely, probably daily. Arguably least for the AP. Even the BBC is fairly partisan on domestic issues.

Not news outlets, echo chambers which provide a spin on most events. Nearly all events in the last three years are heavily spun by both sides.

The idea of objective journalism is largely an abstract ideal. Sounds great on paper and in academia. It is becoming far less common as compared to prior decades as it simply isn't required nor admired with today's publishers. Less fact finding mission and more activism and tribalism.

Even in our own pain journals, lots of interesting ways to retrofit data from a predetermined conclusion with the use of statistics.

Much of what we are seeing is comforting abstractions shouted from rooftops without addressing catch 22 issues. Those doing the shouting are arguably disengaging from factual debate of the issues in a civilized manner. Just echoing the same talking points they see on tv. The alternative, rioting, looting, and general mayhem does not bode well for anyone.
 
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SSdoc33

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"pandering to its audience with lies."

All news outlets do this routinely, probably daily. Arguably least for the AP. Even the BBC is fairly partisan on domestic issues.

Not news outlets, echo chambers which provide a spin on most events. Nearly all events in the last three years are heavily spun by both sides.

The idea of objective journalism is largely an abstract ideal. Sounds great on paper and in academia. It is becoming far less common as compared to prior decades as it simply isn't required nor admired with today's publishers. Less fact finding mission and more activism and tribalism.

Even in our own pain journals, lots of interesting ways to retrofit data from a predetermined conclusion with the use of statistics.

Much of what we are seeing is comforting abstractions shouted from rooftops without addressing catch 22 issues. Those doing the shouting are arguably disengaging from factual debate of the issues in a civilized manner. Just echoing the same talking points they see on tv. The alternative, rioting, looting, and general mayhem does not bode well for anyone.

i just dont want to create a false equivalency. you dont want to throw out the baby (the truth -- the actual real news) with the bathwater (news outlets).

i am getting tired of cnn trying to get me me pissed off at discrimination or covid-19 issues. but i dont want my pictures photo-shopped, and i want my news checked for accuracy. opinions or editorials are different. im sorry to say, but fox is pretty awful when dealing with accuracy
 
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clubdeac

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the liberal news outlets are doing this a lot as well. CBS used pictures from hospitals in Italy during a piece about NYC's over run hospitals during Covid. MSNBC ran a piece about the riots in MN while putting a picture up from the movie World War Z. Also numerous outlets including local ones posted the same crowded beach pic multiple weekends in a row proclaiming people were out in droves despite rising covid cases. The main purpose is to get the public riled up and cause as much division and hatred as possible. The media is the actual enemy here, not covid, not the left, not the right, not racist America. The problem is the media without a doubt
 
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SSdoc33

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the liberal news outlets are doing this a lot as well. CBS used pictures from hospitals in Italy during a piece about NYC's over run hospitals during Covid. MSNBC ran a piece about the riots in MN while putting a picture up from the movie World War Z. Also numerous outlets including local ones posted the same crowded beach pic multiple weekends in a row proclaiming people were out in droves despite rising covid cases. The main purpose is to get the public riled up and cause as much division and hatred as possible. The media is the actual enemy here, not covid, not the left, not the right, not racist America. The problem is the media without a doubt

can you post the actual pictures/stories? media is a big problem. when the media lies it is a bigger problem
 
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SSdoc33

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you are correct about CBS news:

you are incorrect about MSNBC

 
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you are correct about CBS news:

you are incorrect about MSNBC

Interesting, well they sure made it look real I’ll say that much
 
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bedrock

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Agree this happened. I don't feel it was intentional.

I would also say that the large national media companies are far more biased and unconcerned with objective news reporting vs spreading of ultra left wing socialist propaganda than they used to be.

I obtained a digital subscription to the New York Times during residency. Clearly an organization that leaned toward moderate democrats, but they also offered great investigative journalism, and though they certainly leaned democrat, they were fairly objective.

However since President Trump took office, the NYT and all other major new outlets have discarded all of their principles for their singular goal of destroying Trump....and any other elected Republican.

The current degree of liberal bias and radical liberal propaganda is almost comical if you read NYT, CNN, MSNBC, etc lately. They will do anything and everything to destroy Trump and have completely sacrificied their journalism principles to this ultimate goal. I don't agree with most of what Trump does. I didn't vote for him. But if he walked on water across the Potomac, the headline the next day in the NYT/CNN, etc would be.....'The president doesn't know how to swim'!

So I cancelled my NYT subscription last year, and I can't even look at the reporting from any of the national media outlets any longer as they are so full of hate for Republicans and completely void of any objective news reporting. Really sad. Edward R Murrow would be disappointed.

I'm not a Republican, I'm an Independent. (there are more Independents than Republicans or Democrats, look it up), but the national news media just embarrass themselves on a daily basis. Does fox news do it? Yes. Does the NYT, CNN, MSNBC, huffpost do it just as bad or worse?.... yes they do.
 
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SSdoc33

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Agree this happened. I don't feel it was intentional.

I would also say that the large national media companies are far more biased and unconcerned with objective news reporting vs spreading of ultra left wing socialist propaganda than they used to be.

I obtained a digital subscription to the New York Times during residency. Clearly an organization that leaned toward moderate democrats, but they also offered great investigative journalism, and though they certainly leaned democrat, they were fairly objective.

However since President Trump took office, the NYT and all other major new outlets have discarded all of their principles for their singular goal of destroying Trump....and any other elected Republican.

The current degree of liberal bias and radical liberal propaganda is almost comical if you read NYT, CNN, MSNBC, etc lately. They will do anything and everything to destroy Trump and have completely sacrificied their journalism principles to this ultimate goal. I don't agree with most of what Trump does. I didn't vote for him. But if he walked on water across the Potomac, the headline the next day in the NYT/CNN, etc would be.....'The president doesn't know how to swim'!

So I cancelled my NYT subscription last year, and I can't even look at the reporting from any of the national media outlets any longer as they are so full of hate for Republicans and completely void of any objective news reporting. Really sad. Edward R Murrow would be disappointed.

I'm not a Republican, I'm an Independent. (there are more Independents than Republicans or Democrats, look it up), but the national news media just embarrass themselves on a daily basis. Does fox news do it? Yes. Does the NYT, CNN, MSNBC, huffpost do it just as bad or worse?.... yes they do.

We have a big partisan problem in this country.

Trump has worsened it. The media has worsened it.
 
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The production of straight, undramatized news doesn't keep the lights on for a media company. They have to make it entertaining/dramatic/compelling or they go belly up, it's that simple. They pick a story, add spice, characters and plot elements, coach the guests to make sure they get the drift, and there you have it. No one would watch it if you called it what it is - fiction. They have to call it the "News".

If you just turn down the hyperbole volume in your mind, you can vaguely discern the shapes of what's actually going on.
 
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Ducttape

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"pandering to its audience with lies."

All news outlets do this routinely, probably daily. Arguably least for the AP. Even the BBC is fairly partisan on domestic issues.

Not news outlets, echo chambers which provide a spin on most events. Nearly all events in the last three years are heavily spun by both sides.

The idea of objective journalism is largely an abstract ideal. Sounds great on paper and in academia. It is becoming far less common as compared to prior decades as it simply isn't required nor admired with today's publishers. Less fact finding mission and more activism and tribalism.

Even in our own pain journals, lots of interesting ways to retrofit data from a predetermined conclusion with the use of statistics.

Much of what we are seeing is comforting abstractions shouted from rooftops without addressing catch 22 issues. Those doing the shouting are arguably disengaging from factual debate of the issues in a civilized manner. Just echoing the same talking points they see on tv. The alternative, rioting, looting, and general mayhem does not bode well for anyone.
there are resources that tend to have less bias. clearly, CNN and Fox are not those outlets.

rely on outlets such as Reuters or AP..
and, if you see something that appears out of the ordinary, go to the other side to see what their take is. however, in this respect, I would not rely as much on Fox or CNN, but, on the conservative side, The Hill or WSJ, and on the liberal side, NPR or BBS or Washington Post.

still apropos:

Media-Bias-Chart_Version-3.1_Watermark-min-1024x759.jpg



and bedrock, it is hard to say it was not intentional when the image of the armed guard was literally inserted into the primary image - there was clear volition.
 
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Ducttape

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Don’t forget the network (maybe abc can’t recall) who had cars line up at a testing center to make it look busy.
I saw "behind the scenes" footage at night from a different protest that showed like 6 camera crews of 3-5 people each with their spotlights all focused on 3 youths rocking a car back and forth. All you could hear were the camera crews talking among themselves and egging the people on, "Are they gonna flip the car? What are they gonna do?" It was so awkward because of the quiet, studio-like atmosphere and this horde of shameless reporters trying to get these 3 young guys to dance for the camera. Disgraceful.
 
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deleted993114

most dont change their stripes. some do, however. the point of my post wasnt that to try to get people to switch parties, but more to point out that fox news is a propaganda arm of the right. yes, there are also left-leaning outlets, of course. but this example is a particularly disgusting example of journalistic deception -- pandering to its audience with lies.

i also find it amusing that you single me out with your words of wisdom when most "political" posts and posters are right-leaning. i wonder why that is?

Well...………………. I know that FOX news is biased toward the right. However, in my experience, most liberals do not realize that MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS are biased to the left. This inability to appreciate this fact is "political perilax", such that when one is standing far to the left, everything less "left leaning" than them is "right wing". I further understand that most talk radio has a conservative bias. NPR has a liberal bias.

I would disagree about changing political views. NO ONE CHANGES and it is pointless to engage someone in a political discussion. Their mind is made up and all it does is piss them off. There are far, far more interesting things to discuss, other than politics.
 
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SSdoc33

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Well...………………. I know that FOX news is biased toward the right. However, in my experience, most liberals do not realize that MSNBC, CNN, ABC, CBS, NBC, and PBS are biased to the left. This inability to appreciate this fact is "political perilax", such that when one is standing far to the left, everything less "left leaning" than them is "right wing". I further understand that most talk radio has a conservative bias. NPR has a liberal bias.

I would disagree about changing political views. NO ONE CHANGES and it is pointless to engage someone in a political discussion. Their mind is made up and all it does is piss them off. There are far, far more interesting things to discuss, other than politics.

yet here we are....

OF COURSE we realize that the sites you named are biased to the left. your little "parallax" analogy is cute yet inappropriate.

you are correct that that most often people dont "switch sides". but, if one can educate others about falsehoods circulating (or point out blatant lies by any media outlet) then it is a worthy discussion. case in point:




i have no interest in guns or climate change denial, but maybe you can help me figure out why i cant get any apples out of my apples trees. every year right around now, i get a few tiny black spots on the apple when it is about an inch in diameter (sort sort of worm?) and they just wither away and die. i spray them with a dormant oil 2x/year in the late fall and early spring, then with a fruit and citrus spray during the growing season, but still have this problem.
 
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Ducttape

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I'm fairly certain that I have posted the graphic about media bias and where various organizations are on this continuum, and have talked about mediabiasfactcheck.com and snopes.com and politifact.com that most on this board are aware, or can get a feel where a particular organization stands that I don't have to do it again.


oops. I did again...
 
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Doctodd

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so what's the score?.....CNN/liberal media 86,345 to Fox 1? It's not even close. And fyi your side has been racebaiting and gaslighting against the police and the right for decades. Not to mention promising 3 years of "evidence" against Trump and Russian collusion, yet under oath these same CNN analysts testified there was ZERO evidence of same. Your side(CNN) had Avenatti on 54 times in 2 months. Your side supports the current anarchy and BLM and ANTIFA, who really do the DNC's dirty work.

So please spare us your attacks on Fox and right wing news and keep your "persuasive liberal" opinions in the private forum. You can have the last word....im not commenting to you here again
 
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lonelobo

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so what's the score?.....CNN/liberal media 86,345 to Fox 1? It's not even close. And fyi your side has been racebaiting and gaslighting against the police and the right for decades. Not to mention promising 3 years of "evidence" against Trump and Russian collusion, yet under oath these same CNN analysts testified there was ZERO evidence of same. Your side(CNN) had Avenatti on 54 times in 2 months. Your side supports the current anarchy and BLM and ANTIFA, who really do the DNC's dirty work.

So please spare us your attacks on Fox and right wing news and keep your "persuasive liberal" opinions in the private forum. You can have the last word....im not commenting to you here again

Thank you Baby Jesus!
 
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deleted993114

yet here we are....

OF COURSE we realize that the sites you named are biased to the left. your little "parallax" analogy is cute yet inappropriate.

you are correct that that most often people dont "switch sides". but, if one can educate others about falsehoods circulating (or point out blatant lies by any media outlet) then it is a worthy discussion. case in point:




i have no interest in guns or climate change denial, but maybe you can help me figure out why i cant get any apples out of my apples trees. every year right around now, i get a few tiny black spots on the apple when it is about an inch in diameter (sort sort of worm?) and they just wither away and die. i spray them with a dormant oil 2x/year in the late fall and early spring, then with a fruit and citrus spray during the growing season, but still have this problem.

It's a fungus.

Usually trees that are stressed more (not watered enough, poor pH, ect) will be more susceptible.

Consult your local agronomist or county agent. I talk to my guy all the time. They are VERY helpful and will come out and help.

"Climate denial"? That term is beneath you as a physician scientist and is one that is usually used by those who have no scientific background. There is no such thing as "settled science" and honest and productive examination of natural phenomenon ALWAYS WELCOMES skepticism and further study.
 
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SSdoc33

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It's a fungus.

Usually trees that are stressed more (not watered enough, poor pH, ect) will be more susceptible.

Consult your local agronomist or county agent. I talk to my guy all the time. They are VERY helpful and will come out and help.

"Climate denial"? That term is beneath you as a physician scientist and is one that is usually used by those who have no scientific background. There is no such thing as "settled science" and honest and productive examination of natural phenomenon ALWAYS WELCOMES skepticism and further study.

ugh.

lets just stick with my apple problem. i really think it is a worm issue. it doesnt cover the entire surface like apple scab. it looks sort of like a codling moth defect, but smaller and on a few spots on the apples. of course i could call in an expert. id rather a bunch of random, uninformed opinions as is the norm on this site
 
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bedrock

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ugh.

lets just stick with my apple problem. i really think it is a worm issue. it doesnt cover the entire surface like apple scab. it looks sort of like a codling moth defect, but smaller and on a few spots on the apples. of course i could call in an expert. id rather a bunch of random, uninformed opinions as is the norm on this site
Yes- politics blow

I would need to see a picture of the apples and the leaves. However, as above, contact your county agent or agronomist. I have a few farms and have orchards (in addition to crop ground and a ton of trees). I am an ardent environmentalist and use cover crops, have ground in wild flowers and prarie grass, wide buffer strips, terraces, bees, ect……. My main apple tree problem is deer, as Iowa (where my farms are at) is lousy with deer. I like bambi and planted the trees specifically as a food source for them (I don't hunt deer). However, they rub the bark off apple trees in the winter and spring. I have to cage them and use plastic drain pipe to protect the trunk as well- lots of fence and wire work involved, such that the apples fall where they can eat them while I protect the trees. I replaced about 50 trees last month for my "vacation". That was a bitch, particularly with my health problems in 90 degree heat.

I spray my apple trees 2X a year for insect and fungus. Do you do that? Do you fertilize and water your trees? Do you mulch around them? Do you know the pH of the soil (may need some ag lime there)? What is the clay content of the soil? Do you have plenty of earth worms in the soil? Do you have birds like purple martins and barn swallows that will help eat insects?

Call your county agent- get familiar with them, as they are a tremendous source of information. They helped me with my pond (I have wild rice and millet planted for the ducks) CRP wild flower area, and my bees. Given I don't want to kill any critters (we have muskrat, beaver, bob cats, coyotes, and an occasional mountain lion), I have to be flexible in planning. I call my guy all the time, such that we are on a first name basis. Heck- I am leaving tomorrow to spend a few days up there tending to things. Gotta feed the fish, tend to the bees, tend to the trees, see how the grassy areas are doing, repair machinery, repair stonework, ect...…. Thank God my farmer who leases my crop ground tends to the crops.

You can contact the nursery where you bought the trees, but they are not nearly as informative as the county agent and agronomist. Take advantage of those guys- that is why they are there. They enjoy their jobs and really like helping *****s like us who are not professional farmers.

See how much more interesting farming and ag is than politics? Politics suck- it pisses people off and there is little to be learned.
 
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lonelobo

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The most significant achievement of the Trump presidency was remaking the judiciary.

depends how you look at it
 
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bedrock

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depends how you look at it

I believe on hiring people based on their qualifications not on their skin color or sex. Nothing is more ridiculous and unfair than quotas in hiring practices or university acceptances.

As mentioned, I'm an independent not a Republican. One of the biggest reasons I"m certainly not a democrat is that the democrats are the most racist and sexist major political party in America.......against Caucasians, and white men in particular.

I support equality for all, not special treatment for whomever complains the loudest.
 
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lonelobo

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I believe on hiring people based on their qualifications not on their skin color or sex. Nothing is more ridiculous and unfair than quotas in hiring practices or university acceptances.

As mentioned, I'm an independent not a Republican. One of the biggest reasons I"m certainly not a democrat is that the democrats are the most racist and sexist major political party in America.......against Caucasians, and white men in particular.

I support equality for all, not special treatment for whomever complains the loudest.
So not one Black candidate out of 200 was qualified?
 
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bedrock

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So not one Black candidate out of 200 was qualified?

Haven't looked into it deeply so I don't know.
May have been that they were unable to find a black lawyer who was qualified, conservative, and interested in the job.

Only one black republican in the senate and only one in the House (who is retiring this year), so I expect it may be difficult to find a black lawyer that is actually conservative and wanted the job.
 
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lonelobo

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go do a study and get back to us, but only after you get my coffee
 
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NO ONE CHANGES and it is pointless to engage someone in a political discussion.

I disagree with this. I have changed my political views a lot in the last few years. I came from a small farming community - very right sided, and I was the same.

I can't stand the left and their identity politics, their belief that government is benevolent and cares and can fix problems, their love for more taxes (California is trying to change pass a bill that will increase property tax right now - please learn and vote against if from CALI), their lack of respect for freedom of speech...I could go on.

But I have RAN from the right after watching them defend such a horrible person (TRUMP) and use the most convoluted logic to somehow justify who he is. I am getting SQUEEZED in the middle...I have no home. And now, the right...with their "all lives matter" crap, and that they don't see color, and all their ridiculous talk about how 99.95% of people aren't racist, etc. Holy cow. It is horribly appalling to me...as a person who tries damn hard to live a life that strives to live up to my religious roots.
 
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Ducttape

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I believe on hiring people based on their qualifications not on their skin color or sex. Nothing is more ridiculous and unfair than quotas in hiring practices or university acceptances.

As mentioned, I'm an independent not a Republican. One of the biggest reasons I"m certainly not a democrat is that the democrats are the most racist and sexist major political party in America.......against Caucasians, and white men in particular.

I support equality for all, not special treatment for whomever complains the loudest.
the problem - how do you make up for the fact that we currently live in a society in which there is no equality from the start? its all good to say "i support equality"...

im guessing you would then say "thats not my problem that there are so few black doctors/surgeons/lawyers/politicians/CEOs." denying this societal defect to certain extent furthers this conundrum. and saying "they can pull themselves up by their own shoestrings" is not going to happen. there is nso few access or means of having these minority poor individuals to "lift themselves up".
 
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deleted993114

go do a study and get back to us, but only after you get my coffee

our new guy out of fellowship is black.

Having seen TONS of guys, I can say he is one of the best I’ve seen at his stage of the game. Not only is he good with procedures, he is great at diagnostics and is very kind and ethical.

This is the type of guy you wish your daughter would marry. I “shopped” my very good looking daughter to him, but he is already engaged.

He is also “wise” in that he understands he could make more elsewhere, but has a great life and is happy about it. Most at his stage of the game don’t get that.
 
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the problem - how do you make up for the fact that we currently live in a society in which there is no equality from the start? its all good to say "i support equality"...

im guessing you would then say "thats not my problem that there are so few black doctors/surgeons/lawyers/politicians/CEOs." denying this societal defect to certain extent furthers this conundrum. and saying "they can pull themselves up by their own shoestrings" is not going to happen. there is nso few access or means of having these minority poor individuals to "lift themselves up".

i say we have had a black president. I also say watch this....esp 1:00 mark

 
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This seems fitting with the thread title:


Did not see any follow up posts from him opposing the tweet. More of his disregard for "political correctness" (aka quiet racism) or just plain carelessness?
 
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  1. Attending Physician
I disagree with this. I have changed my political views a lot in the last few years. I came from a small farming community - very right sided, and I was the same.

I can't stand the left and their identity politics, their belief that government is benevolent and cares and can fix problems, their love for more taxes (California is trying to change pass a bill that will increase property tax right now - please learn and vote against if from CALI), their lack of respect for freedom of speech...I could go on.

But I have RAN from the right after watching them defend such a horrible person (TRUMP) and use the most convoluted logic to somehow justify who he is. I am getting SQUEEZED in the middle...I have no home. And now, the right...with their "all lives matter" crap, and that they don't see color, and all their ridiculous talk about how 99.95% of people aren't racist, etc. Holy cow. It is horribly appalling to me...as a person who tries damn hard to live a life that strives to live up to my religious roots.

You don't truly believe that do you? Only 0.05% of people in this country are racist :unsure:
 
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Doctodd

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Jul 4, 2005
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This seems fitting with the thread title:


Did not see any follow up posts from him opposing the tweet. More of his disregard for "political correctness" (aka quiet racism) or just plain carelessness?

i dont tweet, so im not privy to tweet etiquette. Are you supposed to have a follow up tweet for something like that? How many? Are there any rules on content? From what i saw, some old guy in a retirement village where there was a Trump parade was getting yelled at by a protestor, and he yelled white power at him as he drove by and laughed. Was it staged? Are they allowing BLM and antifa protestors in retirement villages now?

Some guys here(maybe you) say Trump praised neonazis saying they were "very fine people" after Charlottesville also. But left out that after his reference to "very fine people," Trump said, "and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists -- because they should be condemned totally."
 
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