Trying to specialize from a "Lower-tier" dental school.

[shac19]

Greetings fellow tooth carpenters,

I just got started as a first year dental student at what might be perhaps called a "lower-tier" dental school (for the sake of not embarrassing anyone, I won't mention names). While I did well in undergrad and had the scores that might have gotten me into a more prestigious program (DAT AA: 23, Science GPA: ~3.5), I probably did not perform great in my interviews. But hey, at least I got in somewhere.

I am excited to be here and am perfectly happy if I end up going into general dentistry. Still, I'd like to keep the door open to specialization. I just wanted to know much more difficult (if at all) it is to specialize from a "lower-tier" school. I feel like I could probably have a very competitive class rank if I keep my head on straight. Do residency programs look at class ranks in a vacuum? Would they take a top 5 student from a "lower-tier" school over a top 30 student from a "top-tier" school? Just wanted some different perspectives.

Thanks

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[shmebeble]

A high ranking from a "lower tier" school combined with a great application can get you interviews along with the other students from "top tier" schools. My impression of the endo interview trail was once you have the interview, the interview holds significant weight.

 

[dentaldiaries]

high rank from a lower tier school is better than P from a P/F school. Use that to your advantage.

 

[shac19]

A high ranking from a "lower tier" school combined with a great application can get you interviews along with the other students from "top tier" schools. My impression of the endo interview trail was once you have the interview, the interview holds significant weight.

My school still does P/F for clinicals. We only have a class rank for our the didactic portion of our schooling (I hope I'm using these terms correctly lol). Do you think that will be a significant disadvantage? Or is it fairly common for schools to use P/F for clinic?

 

[dentaldiaries]

My school still does P/F for clinicals. We only have a class rank for our the didactic portion of our schooling (I hope I'm using these terms correctly lol). Do you think that will be a significant disadvantage? Or is it fairly common for schools to use P/F for clinic?

no. you will be fine. most apply summer/fall after D3 year. so only half of clinicals anyways. kill your didactics

 

[2TH MVR]

Plenty of threads that show that certain schools (Ivys, etc) may offer an "easier" path to specialization. You have to decide was it the IVY that allowed an easier path to specialization orrrrrr was it the quality of the student who had the stats to be accepted to an IVY. You decide.

Another important area is cost of DS. If your lower tier school tuition cost is higher than 350-400K .... are you really going to undertake another 200K plus to specialize? You really have to look at the total cost regardless of where you go to school. Of course there are also the stipend paying residencies, but they are competitive to get for obvious reasons.

Also ... is your lower tier DS a traditional school? Meaning ... does your school offer specialty graduate residencies? If yes .... that is good. You will have the opportunity to rub shoulders with the director, attendings, residents in that program. Help with their research and start your own research. Get quality LORs. I cannot stress this enough that building relationships with the specialty dept is a huge advantage for later admittance.

Assuming you attend a lower tier DS with reasonable tuition, traditional DS that offers residencies, and you work hard (high rank), rub shoulders in the desired specialty area. YES .... you can specialize.

 

[dentaldiaries]

Plenty of threads that show that certain schools (Ivys, etc) may offer an "easier" path to specialization. You have to decide was it the IVY that allowed an easier path to specialization orrrrrr was it the quality of the student who had the stats to be accepted to an IVY. You decide.

Another important area is cost of DS. If your lower tier school tuition cost is higher than 350-400K .... are you really going to undertake another 200K plus to specialize? You really have to look at the total cost regardless of where you go to school. Of course there are also the stipend paying residencies, but they are competitive to get for obvious reasons.

Also ... is your lower tier DS a traditional school? Meaning ... does your school offer specialty graduate residencies? If yes .... that is good. You will have the opportunity to rub shoulders with the director, attendings, residents in that program. Help with their research and start your own research. Get quality LORs. I cannot stress this enough that building relationships with the specialty dept is a huge advantage for later admittance.

Assuming you attend a lower tier DS with reasonable tuition, traditional DS that offers residencies, and you work hard (high rank), rub shoulders in the desired specialty area. YES .... you can specialize.

There is a great takeaway from this. Many expect to go to their state schools and quickly find out that matching into OMFS or Ortho is a little bit more challenging than they expect. They give up.

Perhaps due to the environment or the surrounding peer motivations, or just an internal grit. I find that many at schools such as Harvard, Columbia, UCSF, UCLA do not and their specialization rates can be attributed to that.

Do the best you can. Anything is possible and can be achieved from just about anywhere.

 

[ESPN907]

Yo, where’s this “top tier/low tier” dental school list? Are there dental schools in the Caribbean? Am I missing something...

 

[schmoob]

Greetings fellow tooth carpenters,

I just got started as a first year dental student at what might be perhaps called a "lower-tier" dental school (for the sake of not embarrassing anyone, I won't mention names). While I did well in undergrad and had the scores that might have gotten me into a more prestigious program (DAT AA: 23, Science GPA: ~3.5), I probably did not perform great in my interviews. But hey, at least I got in somewhere.

I am excited to be here and am perfectly happy if I end up going into general dentistry. Still, I'd like to keep the door open to specialization. I just wanted to know much more difficult (if at all) it is to specialize from a "lower-tier" school. I feel like I could probably have a very competitive class rank if I keep my head on straight. Do residency programs look at class ranks in a vacuum? Would they take a top 5 student from a "lower-tier" school over a top 30 student from a "top-tier" school? Just wanted some different perspectives.

Thanks

Do the best you can and keep your grades up. Don’t worry about specializing yet because you don’t know enough about each specialty to make a decision. But by keeping your grades up, you keep the door open in the event you do want to specialize. Many people just want to get the heck out toward the end of school and just want to pass.

 

[Traag]

Either way seems to go, in order of preference: Ivy league/UC schools/Uconn, followed by well regarded state and private schools, followed by any state school, followed by less well regarded/ relatively new private schools.

I disagree with your list... There's so many exceptions off the top of my head it's not even worth getting into.

You can specialize from any school OP. Get a high class rank, test scores, extracurriculars, research, etc. and it will take care of itself. When I was interviewing for residency, I shared almost every interview with someone from literally the lowliest of lowly dental schools according to SDN. Despite this alleged perception, this person had boatloads of interviews in a super competitive specialty and matched to one of the most selective programs.

If anything, getting a high class rank can be easier at "bad" schools that have a less academically focused class or people trying to coast to the degree. You control your own destiny.

 

[bracketbuster68]

I disagree with your list... There's so many exceptions off the top of my head it's not even worth getting into.

You can specialize from any school OP. Get a high class rank, test scores, extracurriculars, research, etc. and it will take care of itself. When I was interviewing for residency, I shared almost every interview with someone from literally the lowliest of lowly dental schools according to SDN. Despite this alleged perception, this person had boatloads of interviews in a super competitive specialty and matched to one of the most selective programs.

If anything, getting a high class rank can be easier at "bad" schools that have a less academically focused class or people trying to coast to the degree. You control your own destiny.

Agreed. I think it looks better to be top 5 at a "lesser" school than top 10-15 at a well regarded one.

 

[Sl1d3r]

I talked to someone who went to Penn awhile back that specialized. On paper it said they were ranked 1st in the class. Well there were like 15 people ranked 1st with how their grading system works. A little easier to specialize when your application says your rank is 1 and from Penn. Doesn’t quite equate to more traditional grading systems at other schools where there are definitive rankings.

 

[bruin2013]

I talked to someone who went to Penn awhile back that specialized. On paper it said they were ranked 1st in the class. Well there were like 15 people ranked 1st with how their grading system works. A little easier to specialize when your application says your rank is 1 and from Penn. Doesn’t quite equate to more traditional grading systems at other schools where there are definitive rankings.

When you start getting applications with 20 people all ranked #1, for a decade. It stops carrying meaning.

 

[schmoob]

I talked to someone who went to Penn awhile back that specialized. On paper it said they were ranked 1st in the class. Well there were like 15 people ranked 1st with how their grading system works. A little easier to specialize when your application says your rank is 1 and from Penn. Doesn’t quite equate to more traditional grading systems at other schools where there are definitive rankings.

Unless I’m wrong, my understanding is the top 10 are all ranked #1, and the rest of the class is ranked #11.

 

[P7898]

NO such thing as ranked dental schools. Just be in the top of your class and that's that.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Unless I’m wrong, my understanding is the top 10 are all ranked #1, and the rest of the class is ranked #11.

Something weird like that.

Big Hoss

 

[axiumgod]

Unless I’m wrong, my understanding is the top 10 are all ranked #1, and the rest of the class is ranked #11.

Top 10 are ranked 1-10 and everyone else is 11

 

[Torshammer]

Top 10 are ranked 1-10 and everyone else is 11

Hm, sucks for the guy ranked #10 if the guy who just got by passing his classes and is ranked #11 is also applying to the same specialty.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Top 10 are ranked 1-10 and everyone else is 11

I wonder why they would do such a thing. Couldn’t possibly be to help people get into residencies.

Big Hoss

 

[PatsMan1]

Greetings fellow tooth carpenters,

I just got started as a first year dental student at what might be perhaps called a "lower-tier" dental school (for the sake of not embarrassing anyone, I won't mention names). While I did well in undergrad and had the scores that might have gotten me into a more prestigious program (DAT AA: 23, Science GPA: ~3.5), I probably did not perform great in my interviews. But hey, at least I got in somewhere.

I am excited to be here and am perfectly happy if I end up going into general dentistry. Still, I'd like to keep the door open to specialization. I just wanted to know much more difficult (if at all) it is to specialize from a "lower-tier" school. I feel like I could probably have a very competitive class rank if I keep my head on straight. Do residency programs look at class ranks in a vacuum? Would they take a top 5 student from a "lower-tier" school over a top 30 student from a "top-tier" school? Just wanted some different perspectives.

Thanks

It’s definitely tougher to specialize. People do it don’t get me wrong.

Here are a few reasons as to why I think this is the case:
1) you need to have high class rank which isn’t necessarily easy to achieve (People on SDN make it seem like it’s not an issue but that’s clearly not reality)
2) these schools tend to focus very hard on training you to be a general dentist. It’s generally harder to get clinical time off to get exposed to specialties (I.e. going on externships for OMFS or peds)
3) for OMFS, you generally have less time to study for CBSE. You generally have less time to focus on extracurriculars to build up your app
4) since a few people specialize per year, there are few people you can ask advice for making it harder to know what to do properly
5) school reputation matters to program directors. Now obviously it can be overcome and it doesn’t apply to all program directors, it definitely holds true a decent amount of time unfortunately.

 

[axiumgod]

I wonder why they would do such a thing. Couldn’t possibly be to help people get into residencies.

Big Hoss

 

[ucd2018]

Don't be fooled by the caliber of students in your "lower ranked school." I attend a public school, not a UC or Uconn/Umich and there were at least 10 people in my class with DAT scores >23 and GPAs >3.7. Almost everyone is a hard worker and most care about there grades. The discrepancy in the 1st 10 rankings seems to be largely dictated by which Sim faculty you get paired with to grade your practicals lol.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Don't be fooled by the caliber of students in your "lower ranked school." I attend a public school, not a UC or Uconn/Umich and there were at least 10 people in my class with DAT scores >23 and GPAs >3.7. Almost everyone is a hard worker and most care about there grades. The discrepancy in the 1st 10 rankings seems to be largely dictated by which Sim faculty you get paired with to grade your practicals lol.

Several of us in my state school class turned down schools like Harvard, Columbia, UPenn, UCSF, and so forth. The one I will never understand is the person who turned down a Texas school. They could have saved some serious cash.

Big Hoss

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Several of us in my state school class turned down schools like Harvard, Columbia, UPenn, UCSF, and so forth. The one I will never understand is the person who turned down a Texas school. They could have saved some serious cash.

Big Hoss

Here I always thought you went to a big name private school, and your “go to the cheapest school” thing was you regretting your decision and trying to save other predents from making the same mistake lol

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

Here I always thought you went to a big name private school, and your “go to the cheapest school” thing was you regretting your decision and trying to save other predents from making the same mistake lol

I had the HPSP scholarship, so ultimately cost wasn’t even a concern. I simply went to the school I felt most comfortable with. Absolutely no regrets. I went to a “fancy” school before dental school. I learned there’s nothing fancy about these kinds of schools. You get out what you put in.

Big Hoss

 

[ESPN907]

The competitiveness of small state schools is overlooked completely on SDN because these schools have small class sizes so they are underrepresented. Believe it or not but some of the most competitive applicants and gunners are smart enough to “go to the cheapest school“ which happens to be their state school and they know “you can specialize from any school”

 

[piratewow]

I go to a state school where GPA is based on percents and to break top 10 you need a 96.5% average. #1 typically has a 97.5-99% avg. On top of that there's mandatory attendance and almost no free time to explore specialties/shadow until 3rd year. Only 10-15/100 end up specializing each year.I think going to a "prestigious school" may make the path to specializing more comfortable, but at the end of the day being at the top is competitive no matter where you go. We can argue back and forth about the ease of specializing from state vs Ivy schools, but nobody is gonna argue that 250k debt is harder to pay off than 450k debt.

 

[Sl1d3r]

I wholeheartedly agree that you can specialize no matter where you go and it just ends up being how hard you want to work. At my state school, 7 people specialized in the class. 6 of those 7 were in the top 10 ranking of the class.

 

[PerioDont]

Greetings fellow tooth carpenters,

I just got started as a first year dental student at what might be perhaps called a "lower-tier" dental school (for the sake of not embarrassing anyone, I won't mention names). While I did well in undergrad and had the scores that might have gotten me into a more prestigious program (DAT AA: 23, Science GPA: ~3.5), I probably did not perform great in my interviews. But hey, at least I got in somewhere.

I am excited to be here and am perfectly happy if I end up going into general dentistry. Still, I'd like to keep the door open to specialization. I just wanted to know much more difficult (if at all) it is to specialize from a "lower-tier" school. I feel like I could probably have a very competitive class rank if I keep my head on straight. Do residency programs look at class ranks in a vacuum? Would they take a top 5 student from a "lower-tier" school over a top 30 student from a "top-tier" school? Just wanted some different perspectives.

Thanks

I think the most important thing for you now is just to see that you truly can be in the top of the class and put forth your best efforts. Don't worry about lower-tier or anything else, the door to specialization is open with a high class rank. once you feel comfortable in your study habits start getting involved in research and a club, even if you don't know what specialty you want, just pick something. I'm applying for perio, but my research freshmen year was in pediatric dentistry and neurology with an MD. I think it still shows you were doing something extra.

never mention your DAT and uGPA ever again

 

[S_Diamond_DDS]

Let me explain why ranking top 20 is difficult at a competitive school that does rankings. Since everyone in your class is high achievers, you’ll need to outperform up to 100+ people on every exam and practical. I’m a D4. The top 10 ranks were literally decided D1 year on one practical worth a large percentage of our grade. Ranks 10-20 went to the good test takers. Everyone in the class, for the most part, studies hard and usually gets A’s in classes, and it’s the people that get just 1-2 extra questions right on the tougher exams that made it to these ranks.

 

[FeralisExtremum]

What even is a "lower-tier" dental school? They all teach you the same thing.

 

[nobeldds]

For most residencies, the highest tier program is their own program. If you know what specialty you want to pursue, go to a dental school that has that program.

 

[Big Time Hoosier]

For most residencies, the highest tier program is their own program.

This.

Big Hoss

 

[bergus95]

It’s definitely tougher to specialize. People do it don’t get me wrong.

Here are a few reasons as to why I think this is the case:
1) you need to have high class rank which isn’t necessarily easy to achieve (People on SDN make it seem like it’s not an issue but that’s clearly not reality)
2) these schools tend to focus very hard on training you to be a general dentist. It’s generally harder to get clinical time off to get exposed to specialties (I.e. going on externships for OMFS or peds)
3) for OMFS, you generally have less time to study for CBSE. You generally have less time to focus on extracurriculars to build up your app
4) since a few people specialize per year, there are few people you can ask advice for making it harder to know what to do properly
5) school reputation matters to program directors. Now obviously it can be overcome and it doesn’t apply to all program directors, it definitely holds true a decent amount of time unfortunately.

I tend to agree with these sentiments

 

[allDAT]

Mulling it over doesn’t help at this point because you can’t change programs. There is absolutely no doubt that certain schools have inroads into residency programs that benefit their alumni. This is just part of the deal.

It doesn’t take much to confirm this. Take a look at residency programs you’re interested in. Use way back machine to review old resident profiles. You’ll notice patters. Many directors have similar academic histories, and selection bias is unavoidable.

Regardless, you can specialize from any program. The ease of which you gain acceptance does vary based on your network though.

 

[allDAT]

What even is a "lower-tier" dental school? They all teach you the same thing.

Lower tier schools are not in the club. It’s about networking, not about learning. Patients don’t care, but academics do.