Two new schools, VCOM-Auburn and LarkinCOM, move forward

[as1212559]

Enough is enough. What is a f***ing Larkin?

Good luck to all of our future OMS's with your PGY-1 goals.

Thanks Obama/AOA...

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Enough is enough. What is a f***ing Larkin?

Good luck to all of our future OMS's with your PGY-1 goals.

Thanks Obama/AOA...

How on earth is any of this Obama's doing?

 

[as1212559]

It was sarcasm. Though truthfully, he could probably catalyze change in GME if he wanted. So could congress.

 

[touchpause13]

Thanks Obama!

 

[retro]

I'll just be honest. I think people in AOA are bunch of self-centered bastards more concerned with short-term profit rather than the future of DO as a profession. Even the ones opening new DO schools don't give a flying crap about their graduates landing a residency...they are in a hurry to abuse COCA's lame requirements, open a damn school, and accept as many students as possible ASAP because that means more $$$. It's ridiculous to see the number of AOA residencies stay stagnant while so many more students are graduating. And one more thing...DO schools should stop accepting people with <27 MCAT and step up their game a bit for the profession's sake. I go to a DO school and I love the degree and all, but the way COCA and AOA run things just pisses me off. I realized that the only way out of this "DO world problem" is to get that 250 in Step 1, and that's when I started thinking, dreaming, and acting like USMLE.

 

[user3]

I'll just be honest. I think people in AOA are bunch of self-centered bastards more concerned with short-term profit rather than the future of DO as a profession. Even the ones opening new DO schools don't give a flying crap about their graduates landing a residency...they are in a hurry to abuse COCA's lame requirements, open a damn school, and accept as many students as possible ASAP because that means more $$$. It's ridiculous to see the number of AOA residencies stay stagnant while so many more students are graduating. And one more thing...DO schools should stop accepting people with <27 MCAT and step up their game a bit for the profession's sake. I go to a DO school and I love the degree and all, but the way COCA and AOA run things just pisses me off. I realized that the only way out of this "DO world problem" is to get that 250 in Step 1, and that's when I started thinking, dreaming, and acting like USMLE.

DO schools could possibly increase admissions standards stats-wise if that were the only criteria (ie, no secondaries or interviews required).

The fact that many poorly qualified people are accepted does partly account for the weaker usmle performance and residency matching of DO students.

 

[iceman55]

Thanks Obama!

Yeahh Obama really screwed you huh? Haha you poor DO.

But, in all honesty I wouldn't advise anyone that is interested in a slightly competitive specialty to go to a DO or Caribbean school. With all this residency crunch thing going on, Class of 2018 DOs and IMGs will face unprecedented challenges come match time.

 

[cliquesh]

The fact that many poorly qualified people are accepted does partly account for the weaker usmle performance and residency matching of DO students.

Yea, it's not like DO students are destroying the usmle, but their only options are family medicine. I think, however, DO schools have been recruiting better test takers in recent years. Prior to 2011, for instance, the first time pass rate for DOs taking the usmle has historically been around 80% or less (it was 67% in 2002). In 2011 that number rose to 89% and in 2012 continued to rise to 91%. The average USMD pass rate was 93% and 94% in 2011 and 2012, respectfully.

 

[user3]

Yeahh Obama really screwed you huh? Haha you poor DO.

this is kind of troll-ish

 

[iceman55]

this is kind of troll-ish

Well...it was a sarcastic response to a sarcastic post by touchpause13

 

[edgerock24]

Anyone know anything about LarkinCOM? Going to school in Miami would be pretty cool.

 

[cliquesh]

Anyone know anything about LarkinCOM? Going to school in Miami would be pretty cool.

I can tell you Larkin is a small (147 bed) hospital in south miami and some how they have residencies and fellowships in most things, including derm, ophthalmology, general surgery, PM&R, anesthesia, radiology, psych, hem/onc, GI, cards, endocrine, pain, Moh's, and others. Seems kind of shady.

 

[edgerock24]

I can tell you Larkin is a small (147 bed) hospital in south miami and some how they have residencies and fellowships in most things, including derm, ophthalmology, general surgery, PM&R, anesthesia, radiology, psych, hem/onc, GI, cards, endocrine, pain, Moh's, and others. Seems kind of shady.

Jeez. They must send the majority of their residents to work at outpt clinics. Only way to justify so many residency programs @ a smaller hospital.

 

[cliquesh]

Jeez. They must send the majority of their residents to work at outpt clinics. Only way to justify so many residency programs @ a smaller hospital.

Many DO programs, even decent ones, send their residents to multiple hospitals in the area. The education ends up being adequate, but its annoying for the resident who has to travel so much. I'm not sure if that's what Larkin does. You might be right, though. I know nothing about the hospital except what I've read on their website.

 

[SurgeDO]

I can tell you Larkin is a small (147 bed) hospital in south miami and some how they have residencies and fellowships in most things, including derm, ophthalmology, general surgery, PM&R, anesthesia, radiology, psych, hem/onc, GI, cards, endocrine, pain, Moh's, and others. Seems kind of shady.

148 beds : 147 residents


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larkin_Community_Hospital

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Yea, it's not like DO students are destroying the usmle, but their only options are family medicine. I think, however, DO schools have been recruiting better test takers in recent years. Prior to 2011, for instance, the first time pass rate for DOs taking the usmle has historically been around 80% or less (it was 67% in 2002). In 2011 that number rose to 89% and in 2012 continued to rise to 91%. The average USMD pass rate was 93% and 94% in 2011 and 2012, respectfully.

That might be correlated with the increase MCAT score of matriculated students... I remember seeing a study that showed that 24+ mcat score has almost the same statistical chance to pass step 1 as someone with 30+...

 

[Postictal Raiden]

148 beds : 147 residents


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larkin_Community_Hospital

what would be the ideal ratio?

I have found data showing that some of the well-known MD programs that a lower # of beds : # of residents. For example, George Washington University Hospital has 371 beds and 425 residents.

 

[group_theory]

Was curious as to the type of hospitals that ACGME residencies are held versus AOA residencies. We know AOA residencies tend to be at community hospitals but is there a big gulf between the type of hospitals? Instead of just speculating, decided to do some number checking. Since this thread is talking about Larkin, decided to pick Florida.

For comparison, here are the hospitals in Florida with ACGME IM residencies (numbers of categorical IM PGY1 spots based off NRMP, not including PGY1 preliminary medicine spots). I included inpatient and outpatient surgeries numbers if available (although not relevant to Internal Medicine) in case anyone was interested doing surgery.

*please note there are some inconsistencies with number of beds reported between wikipedia, the hospital own website, and US News.

Jackson Memorial Medical Center (Miami, FL) - 1637 bed, 64,803 admissions, 15,752 inpatient and 7,087 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 219,113 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 36
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospi...miami-jackson-memorial-medical-center-6390573)

Mount Sinai Medical Center (Miami Beach, FL) - 666 bed, 22,926 admissions, 5,935 inpatient and 5,955 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 60,114 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 10
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/mount-sinai-medical-center-6390640)

Cleveland Clinic Florida (Weston, FL) - 155 beds, 10,254 admissions, 4,548 annual inpatient and 6,039 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 30,882 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 9
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/cleveland-clinic-florida-6390205)

Florida Hospital (Orlando, FL) - 2170 bed, 122,729 admissions, 29,347 inpatient and 32,205 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 407,439 visits
Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 12
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/florida-hospital-6390690)

Orlando Regional Medical Center (Orlando, FL) - 1491 beds, 81,666 admissions, 28,422 inpatient and 23,075 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 236,867 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 12
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/orlando-regional-medical-center-6390695)

Mayo Clinic Florida (Jacksonville, FL) - 214 bed, 12,217 admissions, 6,042 inpatient and 6,380 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 25,696 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 10
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/mayo-clinic-6390380)

Shands Jacksonville Medical Center (Jacksonville, FL) - 620 beds, 28,644 admissions, 6,693 inpatient and 8,093 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 87,611 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 14
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/shands-jacksonville-medical-center-6390082)

Shands at the University of Florida (Gainesville, FL) - 939 beds, 39,957 admissions, 15,303 inpatient and 16,696 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 67,785 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 26
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/shands-at-the-university-of-florida-6390283)

Tampa General Hospital (Tampa, FL) - 1019 beds, 39,215 admissions, 14,610 inpatient and 14,257 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 84,140 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 29
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/tampa-general-hospital-6391060)

JFK Medical Center (Atlantis, FL) - 460 bed, 26,000 admissions. Unknown annual surgeries and Emergency Room visit.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 22
(source: UMiami Palm Beach Regional Campus website; http://www.umpbc.com/?page=trainSiteSur&title=Participating Sites)

Tallahassee Memorial Hospital (Tallahassee, FL) - 489 beds, 24,721 admissions, 6,620 inpatient and 12,153 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 70,110 visits. Number of categorical PGY1 IM for 2013: 8
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/tallahassee-memorial-hospital-6391030)



Here are hospitals in Florida with AOA IM residencies. (number of PGY1 IM spots based off AOA Opportunities site, approved spots divided by 3)
If ER visits is not available from US News, data was obtained from AOA Opportunities site.

Manatee Memorial Hospital (Bradenton, FL) - 319 beds, 16,393 admissions, 67500 ER visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 4
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/manatee-memorial-hospital-6390064)

Broward Health Medical Center (Ft Lauderdale, FL) - 656 beds, 29,613 admissions, 6,036 inpatient and 6,553 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 127,733 visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 14
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/broward-general-medical-center-6390210)

Palmetto General Hospital (Hialeah, FL) - 360 beds, 54000 ER visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 18
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/palmetto-general-hospital-6394001

Regional Medical Center Bayonet Point (Hudson, FL) - 280 beds, 40803 ER visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 6
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/regional-medical-center-bayonet-point-6390385)

HCA Largo Medical Center (Largo, FL) - 243 beds, 43239 ER visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 20
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/hca-medical-center-hospital-largo-6390489)

Mount Sinai Medical Center (Miami Beach, FL) - 666 bed, 22,926 admissions, 5,935 inpatient and 5,955 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 60,114 visits. Has both AOA and ACGME IM residencies. Number of categorical AOA PGY1 IM: 8
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/mount-sinai-medical-center-6390640)

Sacred Heart Hospital (Pensacola, FL) - 466 beds, 28,682 admissions. 91394 ER visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 4
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/sacred-heart-hospital-of-pensacola-6390830)

Larkin Community Hospital (South Miami, FL) - 146 beds, 5,792 admissions, 794 inpatient and 739 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 7,523 patients visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 6
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/larkin-community-hospital-6390993

Northside Hospital and Heart Institute (St Petersburg, FL) - 227 beds, 9,355 admissions, 1,975 inpatient and 978 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 28,915 patients visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 13
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospi...ospital-and-tampa-bay-heart-institute-6390932)

Wellington Regional Medical Center (West Palm Beach, FL) - 158 beds, 12,411 admissions. 44000 ER visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 6
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/wellington-regional-medical-center-6391155

Palm West Hospital (Palm Beach Consortium, Loxahatchee, FL) - 166 beds. 12,403 admissions. 4,524 inpatient and 3,148 outpatient surgeries. Its emergency room had 42,931 patients visits.
Number of categorical PGY1 IM: 6
(source: US News; http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/fl/palms-west-hospital-6390753

 

[cliquesh]

what would be the ideal ratio?

I have found data showing that some of the well-known MD programs that a lower # of beds : # of residents. For example, George Washington University Hospital has 371 beds and 425 residents.

I don't know. I just looked up my own hospital and it's roughly a 1 to 1 ratio if you include fellows. There's more than enough work for everyone.

 

[costales]

148 beds : 147 residents


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larkin_Community_Hospital

From the 3/8/13 news article: "Fernandez explained that only 35 of them train on its campus. The rest are spread throughout the county, at community health centers, Miami Children’s Hospital and Jackson Memorial Hospital."

 

[touchpause13]

Well...it was a sarcastic response to a sarcastic post by touchpause13

And I took it as such.

No worries bro

 

[bionerd89]

Yeah, but do you really want you classmates who have ~250-300k in debt to be unable to match? That's a life destroying thing.

Honestly, I think it just pushes all the DO students to just work harder and do better on boards....I rather have classmates with a lot of debt than have incompetent doctors.. I think the reality is that students should really think twice about going into medicine especially DO if they don't think they can handle the academic workload...it seems like with these new DO schools that getting into medical school is actually going to be the easy part...

 

[darklabel]

Honestly, I think it just pushes all the DO students to just work harder and do better on boards....I rather have classmates with a lot of debt than have incompetent doctors.. I think the reality is that students should really think twice about going into medicine especially DO if they don't think they can handle the academic workload...it seems like with these new DO schools that getting into medical school is actually going to be the easy part...

I'd rather that be left up to admissions (which for DO school, isn't going to happen with the amount of school openings). I agree that incompetent doctors shouldn't be allowed to practice, but from what I've read, if you pass the boards, then you have enough knowledge to get your through residency. I don't think saddling someone with 200k+ in nondischargeable loans is the best way to go. But the great news is COCA has stipulated that ~98% of a class must be matched to keep accreditation. Now as new schools open up with 150+ people (such as LarkinCOM), they will come up with ways to make sure they stick to that percentage, such as having a high attrition rate or forcing people to take a pre-test before being allowed to take the boards. Whether this is a good thing or not is up for debate.

 

[TChapmanwvu1]

I feel the reason why congress has been lazy to expand residency position is because most reps will say "what are you talking about? there's physician shortages." When we see saturation, is when gov't will then be pressured to open up positions via more funding. Right now, I forget which thread, but they totaled the number of MD/DO graduates and also totaled the number of AOA/ACGME residencies and the number of graduates was LESS than residencies. That is what government will use against funding.

When the number of graduates is [greater than or equal to] residencies via MD/DO school expansion, I feel is when funding will occur. Therefore in the grand scheme of things, schools increase will be beneficial.

Now, if you want to nitpick upon limited spots in competitive residencies which will be even more competitive, then congress will just call you a diva, and tell you to suck it up and be the best applicant you can be.

Furthermore, DO schools would send ALL their graduates to FM/IM/Peds if they could since there are plenty of open spots.

That is the AOA philosophy to increase primary care physicians, not to get DOs into Dermatology. Don't make them look through your application essays where 99.99% said they vowed to be primary care physicians enthusiastic to serve the underserved, hmmmm??? lol lol

Lastly, one thing I AM TOTALLY DISSAPOINTED is there are more DO graduates than AOA residencies. The AOA is piggybacking ACGME instead of equalizing their number of available residencies proportional to the number of DO graduates. But since ACGME is everyone's hero, AOA is getting too relaxed instead of looking out self-efficiently with their own children.

- AOA theoretical response is that there are doing ACGME a service by filling up the open spots that go unfilled by the lack of MD graduates.


WE CANT WIN!!!

Yes the AOA philosophy (and VCOMs) for that matter is primary care. But keep in mind VCOM has an AOA accredited Dermatology and Neurological Surgery residency.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

Yea, it's not like DO students are destroying the usmle, but their only options are family medicine. I think, however, DO schools have been recruiting better test takers in recent years. Prior to 2011, for instance, the first time pass rate for DOs taking the usmle has historically been around 80% or less (it was 67% in 2002). In 2011 that number rose to 89% and in 2012 continued to rise to 91%. The average USMD pass rate was 93% and 94% in 2011 and 2012, respectfully.

It is basically the same statistically for DO and MD... Good to know though