Typical Step I and II scores of people who got into rads

[hawaiigirl2006]

Hi
I am a MS and I wanted to know what are typical board scores that will get you an interview and get you a position.

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[nuclearrabbit77]

Hi
I am a MS and I wanted to know what are typical board scores that will get you an interview and get you a position.

there are no published stats on this stuff, but i've kind of acquired a gestalt from going on the interview process and seeing what interviews and matches i've seen from people i've talked to..

it all comes down on how good of a program and in what location.


i'd say roughly, to get interviews at top programs you'll need 250-260+ish range step 1, (excellent clinicals...i.e. 3-7 junior clinical honors, top quartile or AOA), research and a good med school, or MSTP. this won't guarantee an interview but will get you interviews if you apply to enough of these programs.

mid tier, expect 235-250+, above average clinical grades, some research.

there's a big span, but as i'm in the application process right now...i know plenty of people who have 250+, decent clinicals (i.e. 1-3 honors), research, and aren't getting many/any top tier interviews and will most likely end up at a mid-tier program.

it'd be nice if programs would publish data, it'd save us all alot of time and money in applying.

on the flipside, a deficiency in one department can be made up in another department. i.e., low boards, but awesome clinicals, and vice versa. at top tier programs, an MD/Ph.D will help as well. although programs will have cut off step 1 scores so if you don't have a high enough step1 you may be filtered out before you can show off other aspects of your application i also get the general impression that female candidates will have an easier time getting interviews and matching due to the sausage-fest environment of radiology.

matching at a community program, or somewhere out in BFE will decrease competitiveness...plenty of people match into these programs with mediocre stats.

so i'd say that out of the 1100 spots available, the most desirable several hundred of spots (either being top tier or in a desirable location; i.e. Cali, NY, etc.) are tremendously competitive to get, but if you simply want to match SOMEWHERE, you can match into radiology with mediocre statistics.

all this is my opinion and it's simply that..., an opinion. i'd like to hear some other peoples perspective on this as well.

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

there are no published stats on this stuff, but i've kind of acquired a gestalt from going on the interview process and seeing what interviews and matches i've seen from people i've talked to..

it all comes down on how good of a program and in what location.


i'd say roughly, to get interviews at top programs you'll need 250-260+ish range step 1, (excellent clinicals...i.e. 3-7 junior clinical honors, top quartile or AOA), research and a good med school, or MSTP. this won't guarantee an interview but will get you interviews if you apply to enough of these programs.

mid tier, expect 235-250+, above average clinical grades, some research.

there's a big span, but as i'm in the application process right now...i know plenty of people who have 250+, decent clinicals (i.e. 1-3 honors), research, and aren't getting many/any top tier interviews and will most likely end up at a mid-tier program.

it'd be nice if programs would publish data, it'd save us all alot of time and money in applying.

on the flipside, a deficiency in one department can be made up in another department. i.e., low boards, but awesome clinicals, and vice versa. at top tier programs, an MD/Ph.D will help as well. although programs will have cut off step 1 scores so if you don't have a high enough step1 you may be filtered out before you can show off other aspects of your application i also get the general impression that female candidates will have an easier time getting interviews and matching due to the sausage-fest environment of radiology.

matching at a community program, or somewhere out in BFE will decrease competitiveness...plenty of people match into these programs with mediocre stats.

so i'd say that out of the 1100 spots available, the most desirable several hundred of spots (either being top tier or in a desirable location; i.e. Cali, NY, etc.) are tremendously competitive to get, but if you simply want to match SOMEWHERE, you can match into radiology with mediocre statistics.

all this is my opinion and it's simply that..., an opinion. i'd like to hear some other peoples perspective on this as well.

As long as you have above the average scores (step 1 and 2) and good grades in your basic sciences and clinicals, you have a good shot at an interview at some radiology program.

 

[Cowboy DO]

As long as you have above the average scores (step 1 and 2) and good grades in your basic sciences and clinicals, you have a good shot at an interview at some radiology program.

I hope you are right

 

[nuclearrabbit77]

i just re-read the tone of my initial post and the tone does make it out as extremely difficult to get into certain programs. but there's hope if you aren't the academic rockstar. it's also important to consider some other factors that are happening.


-applicants are over applying to programs. i've heard numbers range from (20-60+). [mean--40?]. programs don't know what to do with 400 applications for 8 spots at their program. some programs use cutoffs just because it takes a big chunk out of this huge pile. most programs have to interview 10 candidates per spot ratio just to fill their programs. very strong programs (U Pitt) a couple years ago didn't fill. it happens to programs every year.
it is unfortunate that there is this escalating application problem due to the ease of using ERAS. applying is easy as clicking a little box. if you are willing to shell out the cash, you can apply to every freaking program in the nation. somebody is making some serious cash. they should make a cap on the number of applications you can apply to, it'd be the same game, with fewer chips in the basket for us. the crap gets really expensive, including flying and getting hotels. the more we apply, the programs have to interview more candidates, and traveling expenses get nasty. i'm going to do 13 interviews this season, and to be honest i've heard numbers from 6-25. 25?! i couldn't believe it.

-so programs have to take other things in consideration. is this candidate really interested in my program? i.e. (how interested is a very strong applicant who went to a californian college and to a californian medical school applying to an average program in the south or midwest). etc etc.
programs have an idea of their reputation and desirability, like a community program in south dakota versus UCSF, NYU, and the other studs,.. there's alot of regionality that goes on, the only programs that don't play alot of regionality are the stongest programs, they have the allure of their academic reputation to get people to move across the country or live in the boonies).
program directors will throw out outstanding applicants just as likely as weak candidates if they don't fit in their psyche as someone who'll go to their program; having a program that fills takes precendence. many programs have to report on how well they matched, and going unfilled would be an administrative disaster. although some programs have supposedly benefited by taking the strongest candidates from the unmatched pool.

-matching is definetly doable. the %match are much better compared to other fields such as plastics, ENT, ortho, dermatology, radiation oncology, optho, urology, general surgery.. there are alot of spots. 1100! radiology is busy. in the united states, radiology amounted to 100 billion last year.



-so, in a positive note, the statistics for matching are in your favor even if you not a buff candidate. just be smart in how you decide to apply. get a reliable advisor which i sometimes wish i had but to tell you the truth you can figure it out and by surfing the net. just be wary of what you read.



- on a side note, i am kind of inebriated right now, enjoying my 4th year. <GOD... 4TH YEAR RULES>

 

[2muchplanning]

- on a side note, i am kind of inebriated right now, enjoying my 4th year. <GOD... 4TH YEAR RULES>

Wow, that's one eloquent post for being under the influence. Anyway, thanks for the comments the thoroughness helps.

 

[PublicHealth]

MD/PhD....PhD in which area is recommend?

 

[Resident Alien]

phd in BME stuff, whatever that degree is. The graduautes from my school who were MDPhD and matched at good programs did stuff like work on MRI sequences, that sort of stuff us straight MD folks cant understand . but i dont know of a recommended phd per se.

 

[Quixotic]

What is the significance of where you did a residency when it comes time to get a job? If I end up in BFN Arkansas for residency, can I get a job in Denver making good money?

Q

 

[tigershark]

What is the significance of where you did a residency when it comes time to get a job? If I end up in BFN Arkansas for residency, can I get a job in Denver making good money?

Q

Many of the rads groups in the desirable locations wont even talk to you without a fellowship, and where you did your residency influences what fellowships are available to you.

Generally speaking, if you do your residency in BFN you are gonna end up working in that same area/region.

 

[Quixotic]

Many of the rads groups in the desirable locations wont even talk to you without a fellowship, and where you did your residency influences what fellowships are available to you.

Generally speaking, if you do your residency in BFN you are gonna end up working in that same area/region.

So it sounds like one year of internship, four years of residency then another two of subspecialty fellowship. How are people selected for fellowships? Do you have to have a good residency program and have multiple publications? Shoot, I maybe I should consider Ortho. I initially went away from Ortho due to the time commitment, now it looks to be the better choice.

 

[tigershark]

fellowship is one year

 

[zzz1]

fellowship is one year

What is BFN? Does this mean the midwest or something?

 

[Endee]

What is BFN? Does this mean the midwest or something?

Well lets just say the F doesn't stand for friend. But it means in the middle of nowhere.

 

[Neuronix]

MD/PhD....PhD in which area is recommend?

I'm working on a Biophysics PhD right now developing new pulse sequences and working on multinuclear NMR/MRI with the intention of applying to rads in a few years. My understanding is that it's better, though not necessary, to do some sort of radiology-applicable research. That's a pretty broad range of topics though and you can spin it in Biophysics, Bioengineering, Neuroscience (fMRI, others), and probably others.

 

[bigdan]

Well lets just say the F doesn't stand for friend. But it means in the middle of nowhere.

Classic.

dc

 

[Doctorchic2007]

I was wondering if you needed Step II scores for radiology programs.
I also wanted some thoughts on DO and radiologya nd what the lastest treand, in scores, good places to match that are allopathic and oseopathic??

 

[Shah_Patel_PT]

I was wondering if you needed Step II scores for radiology programs.
I also wanted some thoughts on DO and radiologya nd what the lastest treand, in scores, good places to match that are allopathic and oseopathic??

I have heard that PD have been looking at Step 2 scores more than step 1 scores recently. A green book research stated that step 2 scores correlated most with board pass rates, than compared to step 1 scores and med school GPAs.

 

[p53]

I have heard that PD have been looking at Step 2 scores more than step 1 scores recently. A green book research stated that step 2 scores correlated most with board pass rates, than compared to step 1 scores and med school GPAs.

Can you say BS?

1) People with low step 1 scores have an uphill battle to even get a radiology interview.

2) Step 2 scores are NOT required for majority (if not all) radiology programs.

Bottomline: ALL applicants in radiology will have Step 1 scores available. Until radiology programs require step 2 scores, Step 1 (not Step 2) scores will remain the gold standard to assess an applicant's test taking ability and future success on radiology boards.

As many of you know, there is a feature for program directors on ERAS that filters applicants based on Step 1 scores i.e. list radiology applicants with Step 1 scores above 240. Think about it. Since most radiology programs interview for only 2-8 spots, what is the quickest way to decrease the interview pool size?

I promise you that a program director does not go through hundreds of applicants by hand to interview for only 2-8 spots. Keep in mind, there is no screening feature for Step 2 scores. Step 1 scores are used for interview cutoffs.

The only exception is if you have a tie to the particular residency program. For example, interview standards are much lower for students to get interviews at their home institution. However, this is misleading because a successful radiology applicant usually has 10+ interview offers. A student with a low Step 1 score at a home institution must compete with a student with a high Step 1 score that attends that same medical school. Thus, having an interview at a home institution means very little for a successful match because the interview was granted based purely on political factors.

To put things in to perspective, applicant #1 with 240 Step 1 with no Step 2 score >> applicant #2 with 215 Step 1 + 250 Step 2. You can make up for a low Step 1 score BUT you can never completely overcome it because program directors screen interview applicants by Step 1 scores only.

 

[tigershark]

To put things in to perspective, applicant #1 with 240 Step 1 with no Step 2 score >> applicant #2 with 215 Step 1 + 250 Step 2. You can make up for a low Step 1 score BUT you can never completely overcome it because program directors screen interview applicants by Step 1 scores only.

Almost every interviewer has commented on my step 2 score.

Step 1 scores may be used to screen, but I would bet money that a strong step 2 will help move your app into the interview pile after the initial screening is done. At top programs theres probably 100+ applicants with a step 1 > 240, a strong step 2 will give you an edge over others without it, who are otherwise identical in stats.

applicant 1 with step 1 >250 and step2 >250 >> applicant 2 with step1 250 and no step 2.

If youre aiming for the top spots step 2 is worth more than just overcoming a weak step1.

 

[p53]

Almost every interviewer has commented on my step 2 score.

Step 1 scores may be used to screen, but I would bet money that a strong step 2 will help move your app into the interview pile after the initial screening is done. At top programs theres probably 100+ applicants with a step 1 > 240, a strong step 2 will give you an edge over others without it, who are otherwise identical in stats.

applicant 1 with step 1 >250 and step2 >250 >> applicant 2 with step1 250 and no step 2.

If youre aiming for the top spots step 2 is worth more than just overcoming a weak step1.

Tigershark, you are an anomaly. People on here know that you rocked Step 1. This means you made the initial screen for Step 1 scores. Sure, every interviewer commented on your Step 2 score. The interviewers would have looked silly if they commented on your high Step 1 score if you also had a high Step 2 score. By commenting just on your Step 2 score does not mean that they consider it worth more or less.

BTW, your condition of a high Step 1 and high step 2 does not correlate to my argument. I agree that acing both steps is more marketable for the top residencies. However, my argument is that students with low Step 1 scores cannot completely erase his/her performance on Step 1 with a strong Step II. Sure, I'll give you the condition that a 250 Step II will give more interviews but it will not give the same amount of interviews as someone with Step 1 and Step 2 scores above 250. That is my point.

Also, how many people do you think that scored average on Step 1 will jump up to 90th percentile on Step 2 (~ 250+)? Do you think one year of clinical clerkships will make someone a good standardized test taker? Let's face it, this is a huge component of these exams by NBME.

Sure, a handful of people's scores do jump from Step 1 to Step 2. That's because these people underestimated Step 1 but were already good standardized test takers.

The fact is that the best correlation for Step 2 is Step 1. People on here can look up the numbers in the journal Academic Medicine. The majority of people with high step 2 scores ALREADY have a high step 1.

applicant 1 with step 1 >250 and step2 >250 >> applicant 2 with step1 250 and no step 2 >> applicant 3 with Step 1 215 and Step 2 > 250

 

[EctopicFetus]

I am an EM applicant but one of my closest med schools buds had a 207 on Step 1 barely above avg preclinicals, avg clinicals and applied to ~100 programs. He had 9 interviews by early dec, i havent asked him how he is doing now though, but he got at least 9. Word is you should rank 8-10 to be almost guaranteed a spot. Now I am sure he isnt interviewing at Harvard (or whatever other great rads place is out there) but he will prob match (I hope so for him).

 

[peehdee]

I am an EM applicant but one of my closest med schools buds had a 207 on Step 1 barely above avg preclinicals, avg clinicals and applied to ~100 programs. He had 9 interviews by early dec, i havent asked him how he is doing now though, but he got at least 9. Word is you should rank 8-10 to be almost guaranteed a spot. Now I am sure he isnt interviewing at Harvard (or whatever other great rads place is out there) but he will prob match (I hope so for him).

This is the type of post that people need to put up. Of course everyone knows you need good board scores and good grades. Those who have 240+ and saying "will I get interview?" are just showing off IMHO. But I do like hearing stories or at least post from 'average' Joes out there. Average meaning average, not your gunners with 230 or 250 scores. I mean is it a surprise to see someone with good Step I score get interviews?

Cheers EctopicFetus

 

[EctopicFetus]

Agreed, Honestly I didnt think my buddy had a great chance but I feel better about his chances. Even in EM you hear 230 blah blah blah, I dont have a 230 and I got offers to interview at some of the best EM progs in the US.. I know Rads is more competitive but dont lose hope... You just cant be as picky imo

 

[ObGyn]

Agreed, Honestly I didnt think my buddy had a great chance but I feel better about his chances. Even in EM you hear 230 blah blah blah, I dont have a 230 and I got offers to interview at some of the best EM progs in the US.. I know Rads is more competitive but dont lose hope... You just cant be as picky imo

keep in mind also though, where you went to medical school can matter. An above average student from Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Wash U, Duke, UPenn does not equal an above average student from eastern tenn state.

 

[sepsis]

With a 223 I was told it would be a tough road for me. I applied to 17 programs, some more competitive and some less - uni and communi. I have 5 rejects and 3 no hear froms which totals 8 nos.

I have 9 interviews. 4 uni. 5 communi.

I took step 2 early and got a 237. I applied in early october with scores released at the same time.

It's tough to know how PD's select and what their philosophy is. I have been told several different things by different PDs: one liked to see step 1 backed up by step 2, one did not like step 1, 2 or AOA for evaluating, though I suspect that they had to use some kind of cut-off.

I'm posting to show an example cause I know we all like to see data and analyze our chances - take it for what it's worth.

 

[peehdee]

keep in mind also though, where you went to medical school can matter. An above average student from Johns Hopkins, Harvard, Wash U, Duke, UPenn does not equal an above average student from eastern tenn state.

what are you saying about eastern tenn state students?

 

[ObGyn]

what are you saying about eastern tenn state students?

they are only second to harvard of course!

love you qoute btw