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U of Arizona EM

Discussion in 'Emergency Medicine' started by EctopicFetus, Nov 14, 2005.

  1. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough
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    I am wondering if anyone has insight into this program. I dont know much about it but due to my personal life it is looking like a decent possibility. Any and all info would be appreciated. :thumbup: :idea:
     
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  3. CS_22

    CS_22 Senior Member
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    Hey Ectopic, PM me and I'll try to give you a little insight. I've asked a lot about it since its really high on my list.

    CS
     
  4. The White Coat Investor

    The White Coat Investor AKA ActiveDutyMD
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    I'm a third year EM resident at Arizona. Let me know what you want to know about it.

    3 year program in a 1 million person city surrounded by mountains. 8 months of beautiful weather, 4 months of really hot weather. 1/2-2/3 of residents are hooked up, but there's still an OK night life in Tucson (it ain't New York or LA though.) It is a university town. Still affordable to buy a house on a resident salary, but the bubble is creeping in here too. Over 4000 trauma activations/year.

    Recently expanded to a second hospital, so 10-12 new faculty this year. We had some really good pick-ups too. An increasing research focus compared to years past, but most people still going into community practice. Graduates are located all over the country, particularly in difficult to get into groups in the West. Very few of the positions are residents get into are ever advertised. Ultrasound program well above average, but maybe not quite into the UC-Irvine category yet. You'll certainly learn what you need to about Ultrasound here. Sonosite Titan with all the probes available in the ED. New EM-Peds program last year. You see Peds patients in 4 places...1) As an intern and 2nd year you work 2-4 shifts a month in the urgent care where you see most kids (because most kids ain't sick.) 2) Night shifts all the kids are seen in the main ED 3) Sick kids (the only ones you're really interested in seeing later in your residency are always seen in the main ED. 4) As an intern you spend a month at a community hospital with a peds ED.

    Faculty is a great mix of older, more established people on the lecture circuit and younger people still trying to make tenure. Of the 20-25 there's only 2 that I really don't like working with.

    Great shift schedule. 22 9 hour shifts per month (not 28 day period) as an intern, 21 as a junior, and 20 as a senior. Always off for conferences. Your replacement comes on 1 hour before your shift ends so you frequently leave right on time or even early. Only 6.5 months of call. Only one month of medicine wards, and it is a surprisingly good VA month where you have a good mix of CCU patients, ICU patients, and floor patients. You also get to be a very valuable member of the code team. (As an intern, I was the most experienced in airway management who showed up to the codes. Supposedly there was an anesthesia guy in the hospital, but he usually showed up late.) Only 2 weeks of OB...you only need 10 deliveries after all, so who wants to spend an entire month getting them.

    Great conferences, about half given by faculty, half by residents. Since there are more than 30 residents in the program, you actually have time to put some serious preparation into the lectures. Many of them approach the quality of presentations given at ACEP.

    Downsides...not as much cardiac as I would like. As the trauma center we see a bit younger slice of the population than some of the other hospitals in town. Cafeteria closes from 9 pm to 6:30 am. Very few African Americans, so not much sickle cell (oh wait, these were supposed to be the down-sides.) Lots of Spanish speakers, maybe 10% pure Spanish and 30% prefer it.

    All the residents but 1 in my class ranked it first. He ranked it second, but would have ranked it first. We only interview 5-6 people per slot, rather than the usual 10. I think that's a sign of how impressed the people that come are with the program. I'd still rank it first. Other people who come here tend to rank UC-Davis, UNM, Utah, and Indiana highly. Most of us had some interviews in California and at lots of the "big-name" type MidWestern programs. Most of us had good board scores. We all love the outdoors and we also have lots of exercise junkies. 3 people have left in the last few years, 1 guy to go into FP (don't ask me,) 1 was kicked out, and 1 is on an extended leave of absence for an unknown reason. (resident's choice.) The impressive thing is how well the program works with these people to help them to get what they want.
     
  5. GeneralVeers

    GeneralVeers Globus Hystericus
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    Hard to get an interview there. Probably tied with the North Carolina programs for competetiveness.
     
  6. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough
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    Veers, thanks a lot. Hopefully I get a little love...
     
  7. jane70

    jane70 Member
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    i don't know if this is one of those questions you're *not supposed* to ask, but what kindof board scores/grades would you say is the average for U of A EM? This program is also high on my list, probably first, due to a variety of reasons, personal and otherwise. Also do you think doing the 4th year med student elective there is helpful at all and does it matter what area of the country you're from? thanks.....
     
  8. The White Coat Investor

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    Many of us did quite well on the boards. I don't think there is anyone here with below average boards (215), most of us had 230+ I suspect, but it's not exactly a regular topic of conversation. An elective is very helpful if you do very well on it. About half the people we take every year rotate with us. It certainly isn't required. As far as part of the country, it doesn't matter as long as you can prove to our residency director that you'll be happy living in Tucson.
     
  9. ArtGod

    ArtGod Junior Member

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    I am a 3rd yr. Can you tell me anything about the Peds/EM program at Arizona? I know that there are only 3 in the country. Can you tell me what the difference/advantage is of doing it this way rather than Peds then EM fellowship or EM then Peds EM fellowship?

    Is this more or less competitive than straight EM?

    Thanks!
     
  10. The White Coat Investor

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    So I checked with my knowledgeable source regarding the board scores question. Of the 700 non-Arizona applications, we interview about 55. (We interview all the people from Arizona, like most programs.) Board scores average 235-240, but I know we're interviewing at least one person with below average scores.

    Advantage of doing Peds/EM rather than Peds residency, then EM residency is you save one year (but the months you don't do are generally the easier ones, not the call rotations.)

    Advantage of doing Peds/EM residency (5 years) rather than Peds residency (3 years) than Emergency Peds fellowship (3 years) is you save one year, and you qualify to work in a general emergency department.

    Advantage of doing Peds/EM rather than EM residency (3 years) then a Peds EM fellowship (2 years) is you are double boarded in Peds and in EM.

    More or less competitive, hard to say. Last year (the program's first year) it was probably less competitive. But, there are only 3 programs in the country, so I suspect now that we match people in the regular match it will eventually be more competitive, as long as more than just a few people actually want to do it.
     
  11. ArtGod

    ArtGod Junior Member

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    Just wondering......without getting into specifics what is "special" about the one person without board scores? Is he/she related to faculty or did they rotate there or something like that?
     
  12. Apollyon

    Apollyon Screw the GST
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    But what you are NOT if you do EM/Peds is "Peds EM" board eligible. No matter what iteration you do, you have to do a peds EM fellowship to be PedsEM boarded.
     
  13. ArtGod

    ArtGod Junior Member

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    So why would someone want to do Peds/EM. What sort of things can they do that others can not? or is it simply a matter of this being useful to get a job in academics?

    I would like to work in a Peds ED, and I think I would like to do EM then do a Peds EM residency. As the same time even though there are only 3 programs in the country the Peds/EM thing is nice due to the continuity of being able to work at the same place.

    Does anyone know if a place like Childrens Hosp of Philly (Chop), or other childrens hospitals prefers Peds then peds EM or EM then Peds EM?
     
  14. The White Coat Investor

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    It would be inappropriate for me to answer this question in a public forum. It just goes to show that there are no hard and fast rules. But no, not related to faculty nor did the person rotate here. (But if you rotate here you also get an automatic interview, just like if you're from Arizona.)
     
  15. The White Coat Investor

    The White Coat Investor AKA ActiveDutyMD
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    True, true.
     
  16. The White Coat Investor

    The White Coat Investor AKA ActiveDutyMD
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    If you are sure that all you want to do is work in a Peds ED, I recommend EM then a Peds EM fellowship. Why would someone want to do Peds/EM? Beats the hellouttame. I guess they are interested both in doing pediatrics and emergency medicine, or just want to be "the Peds guy" at an EM program. Or maybe they were just really indecisive as medical students. Who knows? We have two people in the program now, I think their emails are on the website. Why don't you ask them?
     
  17. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor
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    Any more recent input on the UofA EM program? I see that they opened up an associated UPH residency.
     
  18. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough
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    I started this thread almost *GULP* 6 years ago. I graduated from there and still have friends there on the faculty. Let me know if I can help.
     
  19. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor
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    Looking for any information in general, but the three direct questions I have are:

    1) How, if at all, has the UPH residency impacted the UMC residency?

    2) Is the UMC residency the EM portion of the EM/Peds program or does it not work like that?

    3) What tier of competitiveness is UofA for out-of-state students?
     
  20. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough
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    1) I finished residency just before UPH residency started. I worked there. I believe the new hospital is now open. It is a new residency and I would expect they have some growing pains.

    2) Yes. It is like doing 2 residents. You do blocks (4 weeks at a time) of EM (where u function like an EM resident or Peds (where u function like a peds resident

    3) U of A is highly competetive. In my class there wasnt a single U of A med school grad. Same for the class ahead of me. If you are a west coast person you have a shot.
     
  21. hothause

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    Any chance for those of us not at a west coast program or should we write off both the UMC and UPH in terms of being offered an interview?
     
  22. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough
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    UPH much less competetive. New PD (old asst PD) at UMC so probably makes it a little easier.

    If you arent a west coast person you at least have to have interests that would show you would be happy out there. Biking, mountains outdoors etc.

    UPH is more about being willing to join a new program with some decent but limited resources. New ED, poor patient population etc.
     
  23. SepulvedaMD

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    What makes it so competitive? As opposed to any western/mountain program? In your opinion, how would the app of a competitive applicant look to go there?
     
  24. mitchey4

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    As a current UMC resident (now University of Arizona Medical Center - UAMC), we interact very closely with our UPH cohort (now University of Arizona Medical Center South Campus - UAMCSC). We do 80% of our ED shifts at UMC and 20% at UPH. The new ED at UPH is brand new and nice. Yes, there are a few growing pains but the kinks are being worked out extremely fast. The patient populations are quite different at each place. We do have combined conferences with UMC and UPH once or twice per month. Although similar, they are somewhat different and have unique emphases. As for west coast vs. east coast applicants, take a look at our current residents and you'll see that we went to medical school throughout the U.S.
     
  25. EctopicFetus

    EctopicFetus Keeping it funky enough
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    The PDs are looking for people who would be happy there. Tucson isnt big city bright light EM. The program is phenomenal and the attendings are great but if you have the wrong personality you will likely be unhappy. The residents tend to be outdoorsy types rather than watch football types.

    Mountain biking, cycling, hiking types fit best. You could simply imagine a big city NY, Philly, Chicago type might not fit the best in a city like that.

    The training is good and the new PD is a strong force for the ED. The system is experiencing some changes due to financing but this would be expected in any system these days with the financial woes states are facing.
     

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