U of Sydney vs. U of Queensland...Help!!

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Newbie99

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Hello,

I'm a Canadian who just received offers from UQ and UofSydney!! I'm wondering if anyone has any opinions about which is the better school. I've heard great things about both and its only making my decision harder.

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Hey, so as a Canadian myself, and actually one who accepted at UQ for this January, my main concern for you would be the costs associated with going to USyd. While Sydney is ranked higher than UQ (2nd vs. 3rd in the country) it is MUCH more expensive from a tuition and living expenses perspective. The class size is a bit smaller, although not by too much, and in terms of cities and weather, I would choose Brisbane over Sydney in a heart beat, although I hate the cold! Other than that, I would look into what affiliations USyd has with American or Canadian schools and hospitals and as well, if you can, I would see if you can find out what sorts of help they offer for IMG's trying to match back home, take USMLE's and MCEE's etc. And lastly, if you want some good info on the two schools, I would perhaps ask the Aussies on the "PagingDr" forum, they are really helpful there. Good luck and maybe we'll see ya at UQ!
 
if cost isn't a concern for you, then i'd say take Sydney's offer... i have't heard people saying bad things about it so far... and it's just much harder to get in than uq


may i ask when you received the offer and was it by email?

i thought they still have international applicant interviews in Sep24 though, so i guess you are top applicant that's why they email you before review finished.

since you were contacted so early, i assume you also got the scholarship?

congrats on sydney
 
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Congratulations newbie99! I also received a U Syd acceptance yesterday by e-mail. I'm shocked that it came so soon though, I thought we weren't supposed to hear anything until early November. Did your offer say anything about a scholarship? Mine listed the regular course fee of A$51k :eek: - so I guess that means I don't get one. Or maybe (wishful thinking!) they award latter after you accept the offer?

Anyway, good luck whatever you decide, maybe I will see you in Sydney.
 
congrats you guys, im stoked for you two.
did you apply for the post grad or the 6 year undergrad program??
 
Congrats to you as well Knockout Mouse!
I was also really surprised how soon the offer came, wasn't expecting for another 3 or 4 weeks. There was no mention of a scholarship in my offer as well. Would be nice to take a bite out of that 51k tuition fee!

I applied to the 4 year post grad program.

Also thanks for all the advice and well wishes!!
 
I am a local student at USyd, and I think that you should think about the following points before you make your decision.

I have lived in both Sydney and Brisbane (6 yrs in Syd, 1 yr in Brissie), and it is true that Sydney is a more expensive city to live in, especially the rent. And from what I hear, the international student's fees are 50k/yr in USyd, which I'm assuming is much more expensive than UQ.

Brisbane as a city is much more laid back than Sydney, with less traffic, nicer people, more trees wherever you go. In comparison to Sydney where certain suburbs are associated with certain ethnic groups (eg Ashfield - Chinese, Bankstown - Lebanese, Parramatta - Indian), there are a healthy blend of different ethnicities in most Brisbane suburbs.

Both USyd and UQ campuses have beautiful sandstone architecture and good international recognition, although USyd probably has the upper hand on this one.

As far as the actual med programmes go, they're quite similar, as all the post-grad med courses have been developed in the last 10 yrs and have heavily borrowed elements from each other.

USyd has recently taken onboard the widely held criticisms about post-grad courses (eg not enough didactic teaching of anatomy/physiology etc), and has implementes some changes.

For example, the first 8 weeks used to be an 'introductory block' with PBL topics based on different organ systems (eg cardio, resp, paeds, oncology), but now it'll be 9 weeks with only 4 PBLs and increased didactic teaching sessions. There will also be more practice exams (known as RFAs), and there are also changes made to 3rd/4th yr curricula.

http://www.medfac.usyd.edu.au/currentstudent/usydmp-review.php

Go to the above link and click on the links on the right hand side of the page for the 'USydMP recommendations'.

But these are little improvements here and there rather than a major overhaul, and in the end students with the right attitude will be successful no matter where they go.

Hope this helps, and good luck.
 
Hey, so as a Canadian myself, and actually one who accepted at UQ for this January, my main concern for you would be the costs associated with going to USyd. While Sydney is ranked higher than UQ (2nd vs. 3rd in the country) it is MUCH more expensive from a tuition and living expenses perspective. The class size is a bit smaller, although not by too much, and in terms of cities and weather, I would choose Brisbane over Sydney in a heart beat, although I hate the cold! Other than that, I would look into what affiliations USyd has with American or Canadian schools and hospitals and as well, if you can, I would see if you can find out what sorts of help they offer for IMG's trying to match back home, take USMLE's and MCEE's etc. And lastly, if you want some good info on the two schools, I would perhaps ask the Aussies on the "PagingDr" forum, they are really helpful there. Good luck and maybe we'll see ya at UQ!


This is completely and utterly wrong. There is no ranking system in Australia. All Australian medical schools are equal and produce equal graduates (apparently unlike the US system).
 
This is completely and utterly wrong. There is no ranking system in Australia. All Australian medical schools are equal and produce equal graduates (apparently unlike the US system).

No, he's not wrong. His data was based on the British Times Higher ranking. Of the Australian schools ranked, Melbourne was no.1, Sydney no.2, and UQ no.3. However, according to the latest ranking, Monash has risen to be above Sydney.
 
No, he's not wrong. His data was based on the British Times Higher ranking. Of the Australian schools ranked, Melbourne was no.1, Sydney no.2, and UQ no.3. However, according to the latest ranking, Monash has risen to be above Sydney.

The THES ranking system is based on research papers published by the university. It has no bearing on the quality of the medical school and such a system is redundant in Australia's medical system. There is no system that ranks Australia's medical schools.
 
The THES ranking system is based on research papers published by the university. It has no bearing on the quality of the medical school and such a system is redundant in Australia's medical system. There is no system that ranks Australia's medical schools.

I agree with Hayden on this one.

The only way that THES ranking could be useful in the context of the question by the OP is if one university was ranked at 31st in the world and the other ranked at 700th (not that the rankings actually go over 200, but you get the point), because there must be a reason why there is such a vast difference in the ranking (ie the quality of the university overall).

But if one was ranked at 30th and the other 45th (or something like that, which I believe were similar to the THES rank for the two universities in question), then the difference could be that the higher ranked university has a Department of Media Studies whereas the lower ranked university does not.
 
I was simply taking the literal meaning of the ranking, that A is ranked higher than B. Sydney is ranked higher than UQ, it's a fact. It has much better international reputation than UQ as well, which is also a fact. But is USyd necessarily better from a student's standpoint? Of course not.

I DON'T entirely believe in any sort of rankings at all. I DO believe all Australian med schools are of very high standards and all are capable of producing outstanding doctors.
 
imho,

1) syd has a better reputation internationally (or maybe it's just becuz people only know about the city sydney? ;))
2) syd has a more impressive interview process compared to uq
3) syd has a smaller class
4) syd has a longer history, the first med school in aus (though the post-grad program is similar in history for both i think)

but of cuz, syd is way more expensive than uq
 
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Are all the offers out for int students?

Did anybody else get offers?

Rappel:confused:
 
imho,

1) syd has a better reputation internationally (or maybe it's just becuz people only know about the city sydney? ;))
2) syd has a more impressive interview process compared to uq
3) syd has a smaller class
4) syd has a longer history, the first med school in aus (though the post-grad program is similar in history for both i think)

but of cuz, syd is way more expensive than uq

Melbourne is the first formal med school in Australia. (Syd 1883; Melb 1862) :):)
 
I was simply taking the literal meaning of the ranking, that A is ranked higher than B. Sydney is ranked higher than UQ, it's a fact. It has much better international reputation than UQ as well, which is also a fact. But is USyd necessarily better from a student's standpoint? Of course not.

I DON'T entirely believe in any sort of rankings at all. I DO believe all Australian med schools are of very high standards and all are capable of producing outstanding doctors.

Yes, it may be a fact that on a report somewhere on the other side of the world, one university is 'ranked' higher than another. But if you are taking that into account when choosing a university, in all seriousness, you're making a mistake.

Agree with the rest.

imho,

1) syd has a better reputation internationally (or maybe it's just becuz people only know about the city sydney? ;))
2) syd has a more impressive interview process compared to uq
3) syd has a smaller class
4) syd has a longer history, the first med school in aus (though the post-grad program is similar in history for both i think)

but of cuz, syd is way more expensive than uq

Okay with the ranking thing past us... let's talk about these points, just in the interest of helping the OP.

Only one of those options above may marginally help you.

1. An international reputation of your medical school is not something to cling to. General consensus (in Australia, anyway) is that most doctors find it pretty petty if you ride on your medical school's reputation instead of your own performance. Forgive me if it is different in the U.S. or Canada, but I don't want to practice there so I don't know anything about it.

2. A more impressive interview process? That's a pro for attending the school?

3. When 'smaller class' is mentioned, your eyebrows should raise and you should ask more questions. It doesn't matter how many people are watching a lecture. It does matter how many people are in tutorial groups or CBL groups or practicals. Ask those sort of questions. (I'm just trying to help you make your decision well).

4. History isn't going to help your medical education.


In the opinion of the Australian Medical Council (the accreditation body of Australia for doctors), all medical schools in Australia are of equal standing when producing graduates. Reputation of your medical school is not part of selection processes when applying for internship or training programs (like they may be in other countries).

So don't look at those options, look at other ones. Make a trip to the two schools if you can afford it and look at the city. It's where you're going to have to live for quite a long time! Look at the colleges, look at other acommodation, look at the city vibe, the costs of living, the weather, look at the Med Society if that's what you're in to, look at active ethnic communities if that's important to you, look at all those things. Medicine will become most of your life so you need to be happy with the things that surround you.
 
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Yes, it may be a fact that on a report somewhere on the other side of the world, one university is 'ranked' higher than another. But if you are taking that into account when choosing a university, in all seriousness, you're making a mistake.

Agree with the rest.



Okay with the ranking thing past us... let's talk about these points, just in the interest of helping the OP.

Only one of those options above may marginally help you.

1. An international reputation of your medical school is not something to cling to. General consensus (in Australia, anyway) is that most doctors find it pretty petty if you ride on your medical school's reputation instead of your own performance. Forgive me if it is different in the U.S. or Canada, but I don't want to practice there so I don't know anything about it.

2. A more impressive interview process? That's a pro for attending the school?

3. When 'smaller class' is mentioned, your eyebrows should raise and you should ask more questions. It doesn't matter how many people are watching a lecture. It does matter how many people are in tutorial groups or CBL groups or practicals. Ask those sort of questions. (I'm just trying to help you make your decision well).

4. History isn't going to help your medical education.


In the opinion of the Australian Medical Council (the accreditation body of Australia for doctors), all medical schools in Australia are of equal standing when producing graduates. Reputation of your medical school is not part of selection processes when applying for internship or training programs (like they may be in other countries).

So don't look at those options, look at other ones. Make a trip to the two schools if you can afford it and look at the city. It's where you're going to have to live for quite a long time! Look at the colleges, look at other acommodation, look at the city vibe, the costs of living, the weather, look at the Med Society if that's what you're in to, look at active ethnic communities if that's important to you, look at all those things. Medicine will become most of your life so you need to be happy with the things that surround you.

I agree with pretty much everything you've said. These things are true for someone who is planning on trying to get a good internship in this country and who wants to work in Australia.

However, these things may be of importance to those who wish to obtain their education in Australia and then return to another part of the world to actaully practice.

Same might be said for example someone from Singapore who wants to complete their medical degree in the US. Are they going to choose "Harvard" for the name and history, or are they going to choose some random state university medical program? Even though the state university program may actually produce medical graduates who are just as competent.. Most will choose Harvard because it "may" open more doors for them for other reasons.
 
Only one of those options above may marginally help you.

1. An international reputation of your medical school is not something to cling to. General consensus (in Australia, anyway) is that most doctors find it pretty petty if you ride on your medical school's reputation instead of your own performance. Forgive me if it is different in the U.S. or Canada, but I don't want to practice there so I don't know anything about it.

2. A more impressive interview process? That's a pro for attending the school?

3. When 'smaller class' is mentioned, your eyebrows should raise and you should ask more questions. It doesn't matter how many people are watching a lecture. It does matter how many people are in tutorial groups or CBL groups or practicals. Ask those sort of questions. (I'm just trying to help you make your decision well).

4. History isn't going to help your medical education.


In the opinion of the Australian Medical Council (the accreditation body of Australia for doctors), all medical schools in Australia are of equal standing when producing graduates. Reputation of your medical school is not part of selection processes when applying for internship or training programs (like they may be in other countries).

So don't look at those options, look at other ones. Make a trip to the two schools if you can afford it and look at the city. It's where you're going to have to live for quite a long time! Look at the colleges, look at other acommodation, look at the city vibe, the costs of living, the weather, look at the Med Society if that's what you're in to, look at active ethnic communities if that's important to you, look at all those things. Medicine will become most of your life so you need to be happy with the things that surround you.

interesting valid points. as for #2, i think how a school presents itself, ie. info sessions, interview process, says alot about the school itself. i feel that a sloppy interview or other processes suggest poor organization on the school part, or something more serious. why would some schools go all the way to north amercia to interview students while others don't? so imho, i would feel that's something to consider.

i agree with hayden's comment about my #3. i was told uq's tutorial and labs are larger than other schools. that's why i mentioned this point. but my source could be wrong again

and OP, several people have told me that to go back to canada, scoring in the mccqe (or whatever it's called), and ref letters are the most important. reputation may/may not help you, i heard. but if 2 schools are equal in quality with slight differences in reputation, then maybe u can take that into account.

and i guess if you're dead set on going back to canada to practice, then i guess many comments made by local aussie students won't matter as much to u...

my 2 cents
 
did anybody else get offers?

:confused:
 
I think the bottom line for this whole debate is this: Regardless of ranking, status, reputation etc. the doctors that do well, match to good training programs and generally succeed are the ones who work hard and make the best of whatever med school they go to. They bridge the gaps where necessary and they spend as much time getting experience in the hospitals, clinics etc. Hopefully you would all agree on this!
 
I think the bottom line for this whole debate is this: Regardless of ranking, status, reputation etc. the doctors that do well, match to good training programs and generally succeed are the ones who work hard and make the best of whatever med school they go to. They bridge the gaps where necessary and they spend as much time getting experience in the hospitals, clinics etc. Hopefully you would all agree on this!
You've got my vote ;)
 
hey i got my acceptance email from USyd in september too - i was sooooo surprised since they had told us at the interview we wouldn't hear until november! congrats on your acceptances! have u made a decision yet??
 
I agree with pretty much everything you've said. These things are true for someone who is planning on trying to get a good internship in this country and who wants to work in Australia.

However, these things may be of importance to those who wish to obtain their education in Australia and then return to another part of the world to actaully practice.

Same might be said for example someone from Singapore who wants to complete their medical degree in the US. Are they going to choose "Harvard" for the name and history, or are they going to choose some random state university medical program? Even though the state university program may actually produce medical graduates who are just as competent.. Most will choose Harvard because it "may" open more doors for them for other reasons.

seconded

but hardwork is still the most important
 
The THES ranking system is based on research papers published by the university. It has no bearing on the quality of the medical school and such a system is redundant in Australia's medical system. There is no system that ranks Australia's medical schools.

Of course, this doesn't mean that certain Aussie medical schools don't provide a higher quality of education than others...
 
I think the bottom line for this whole debate is this: Regardless of ranking, status, reputation etc. the doctors that do well, match to good training programs and generally succeed are the ones who work hard and make the best of whatever med school they go to. They bridge the gaps where necessary and they spend as much time getting experience in the hospitals, clinics etc. Hopefully you would all agree on this!

Canuck Chick, you speak the truth. =)

To everyone out there - don't think that the med school will "make" you a good doc. Learn as much as you can, and look outside your institution for the standard of knowledge in the rest of the world. Then, exceed it. =)

I promise, if you work hard and make being a great doc your priority, you'll have a blast and end up with a career that rewards your efforts for the rest of your life. :cool:
 
Ezekiel20 : not sure how long it's been since you were in bris but latest stats say

Bris peak traffic is on par with sydneys
Brisbane is now the most expensive place in australia to rent
 
I think this debate has kind of finished, but anyway...

Of course, this doesn't mean that certain Aussie medical schools don't provide a higher quality of education than others...

No, and I didn't say that. If you're studying law, you're definitely wanting to go to a university with a good reputation if you have your wits about you...
 
Was going to add something, but you've already got it in a post above.. (ie. disregard this message). =)
 
Some ethnic minorities might find Sydney to be more hospitable than Brisbane. I am wondering how you got offers from both schools because Sydney and Queensland use ACER for admissions, you pick two schools, one gives you an interview.
 
Bumping this. This thread is from 2007 so I'm just wondering if there's been any changes since then.
 
Most of what was said was opinion or timeless, so difficult to say it's changed!

It's still true that rep means squat here (though Melbourne was universally acknowledged as the toughest school to get into when it was undergrad).

I don't know how big USyd PBLs are, but UQ's have 10 students. I no longer know about the size of other tutes (anatomy, path, public health).

I think the statement about Brisbane having higher rent prices probably was meant to refer to the Gold Coast. Brisbane has a lot of affordable rentals.

In terms of student stats, schools don't reveal much, but for 2009, UQ and USyd tied for highest GAMSAT cutoff here, and UQ had an average MCAT of 29P.
 
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Thanks for the reply pitman!

I'm mostly concerned about the internship situation. I know it's going to be equally bad across NSW and QLD when I grad in 2014, but I heard that NSW is doing more poorly in that aspect compared to QLD (as in people are reporting shortages a year or two earlier in comparison).
 
While I think NSW has been shown to have had a head start on shortages, I see the problem as about equivalent for the two states as far as new students are concerned (somewhere between "not optimistic" to "poor"). Certainly current projections say "poor".

Having said that, things tend to change. Qld Health for example has once again said this year that int'ls will be able to stay one way or another, which they at least hint at each year, while they keep saying, "...next year we cannot guarantee this". Similarly, NSW looked dire last year but ended up not being so, while so far looks dire again this year.

The trend however is that the warnings have been getting louder and increasingly ominous nationwide, and it does look bad, but over this debate of the past 6+ years, int'l students have been able to stay long after virtually all self-styled pundits have predicted (not only anonymous ones from forums such as this, but govt and special interest sources also).

In the end, what will matter is: 1) the level of already considerable political pressure for Australia federally and/or at the state level to accommodate domestically trained students (on a background of the huge financial support most states gets from their int'l students), maybe involving changes towards merit-based systems or an opening up of a lot of private hospitals; 2) whether int'ls will be able to do internship at another state before spillover closes them off (on the plus side, most states are being forced to promise domestics internship places, which means any state currently with a surplus of spots could continue to have some); and (tangential to your question but still relevant politically) 3) what other opportunities present themselves for int'l students, such as NZ or Singapore potentially agreeing to help absorb the spillover.

So while it's risky if you want to stay, and things have gradually been getting 'tighter', claims of knowledge of how (or when) this will all play out have empirically been shown to be uninformed and premature. When making your decision about whether to come here, I think it's most pragmatic to assume you won't be able to stay, and in the end you might be pleasantly surprised.
 
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While I think NSW has been shown to have had a head start on shortages, I see the problem as about equivalent for the two states as far as new students are concerned (somewhere between "not optimistic" to "poor"). Certainly current projections say "poor".

Having said that, things tend to change. Qld Health for example has once again said this year that int'ls will be able to stay one way or another, which they at least hint at each year, while they keep saying, "...next year we cannot guarantee this". Similarly, NSW looked dire last year but ended up not being so, while so far looks dire again this year.

The trend however is that the warnings have been getting louder and increasingly ominous nationwide, and it does look bad, but over this debate of the past 6+ years, int'l students have been able to stay long after virtually all self-styled pundits have predicted (not only anonymous ones from forums such as this, but govt and special interest sources also).

In the end, what will matter is: 1) the level of already considerable political pressure for Australia federally and/or at the state level to accommodate domestically trained students (on a background of the huge financial support most states gets from their int'l students), maybe involving changes towards merit-based systems or an opening up of a lot of private hospitals; 2) whether int'ls will be able to do internship at another state before spillover closes them off (on the plus side, most states are being forced to promise domestics internship places, which means any state currently with a surplus of spots could continue to have some); and (tangential to your question but still relevant politically) 3) what other opportunities present themselves for int'l students, such as NZ or Singapore potentially agreeing to help absorb the spillover.

So while it's risky if you want to stay, and things have gradually been getting 'tighter', claims of knowledge of how (or when) this will all play out have empirically been shown to be uninformed and premature. When making your decision about whether to come here, I think it's most pragmatic to assume you won't be able to stay, and in the end you might be pleasantly surprised.

Thanks for the thorough reply.

I'm definitely not expecting to be able to stay, so I probably won't be too disappointed if that happens. I know it's pretty much a risk of studying overseas anyways.
 
The situation regarding internships for internationals has always been in flux. I moved to Australia in early 2004, and doctors were not even on the list for skilled migration to Australia, which meant it was impossible for an international medical student to apply for PR after an internship year. Then in mid 2004 they finally placed them on that list. People kept saying for years it would be hard for an international to get an internship spot, especially for the class of 2009, I know several internationals who got them and and good locales such as the RPA.

But as I said they will never guarantee anything. And priority goes to those who have legal PR status in Australia. There are other ways to become legal PR, some really obvious ones. After migrating to Australia in 2004, I got married in 2007 to one of my classmates at USyd which would have led to me getting a PR but I had it anyhow.
 
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