U.S. MD's in the U.K. & Ireland

Discussion in 'UK & Ireland' started by HeroOfChaos, Nov 16, 2005.

  1. HeroOfChaos

    HeroOfChaos Lurk like Yog-Sothoth...
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    Greetings everyone,
    I am currently an MS1, in a U.S. Medical School. I plan on graduating and maybe completing my residency here in the U.S.A. At some point in my life though, I am determined to leave this country and move to the U.K. I am curious about the health system and any information any of you may have on what foreign doctors, specifically U.S. trained ones, have to do in order to practice in the U.K. as well as other information you may have, such as job availability, average salaries, or anything else you can think of that is relevant.
    Thanks!
     
  2. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    Hmm, this is a bit tough, you might find more legislative kind of help on www.medschoolguide.co.uk . You'd have to take the PLAB and then later on, possibly membership exams (their "residency" system is different from ours a little). At the moment, it's quite difficult to get in as a non-EU citizen, non UK-grad or non-EU graduate, even though obviously a US degree is well-recognized. It's even hard for EU-graduated non-EU citizens. If you were accepted, you may have to even repeat training (some of residency, or even going back to internship). And at the moment, there is an oversupply of junior doctors in the UK, which means it is a lot harder to advance through the system, and there are horror stories of junior doctors not being able to work as doctors. But being non-EU would hinder progression to the senior doctor levels. But ask around on the website I mentioned, and they may be able to give you some more help.
     
  3. f_w

    f_w 1K Member
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    > You'd have to take the PLAB and then later on, possibly membership exams

    Actually, if you have finished residency training in the US, there is a way to practice in the UK without PLAB or college exams: You can apply to the 'specialist training authority' to get your training recognized in the UK (through issuance of a 'CCST'). You don't have to write the respective college exam for that, and once you have the CCST you are eligible to obtain registration without sitting for the PLAB.

    The problem in surgical specialties is that the UK docs have larger numbers of required procedures than most US residencies offer. Also, training is typically somewhat longer in the UK. It is pretty much necessary to have a couple of years of post-residency experience to gather the necessary case numbers.

    But getting a CCST doesn't mean you can also find a consultant position. The UK system has a certain degree of chauvinism towards other medical training systems. So even if you have all the formal qualificiations, it can be difficult to find a position.
     
  4. Waiting4Ganong

    Waiting4Ganong Senior Member
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    Advice withdrawn.
     
  5. HeroOfChaos

    HeroOfChaos Lurk like Yog-Sothoth...
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    Wow, thanks for all the info. You guys are really helpful and kind. I can't help but be disheartened by the info though. I'll mull it over some more and read up on it. If you do find more info please feel free to send it my way.
     
  6. leorl

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved 10+ Year Member

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    I know it can be disheartening...but the thing is, there's no harm in trying :). It's obviously been done before and it's a long way off yet, perhaps things will change a little in that time. When I have time (I have no idea when that'll be) I might poach info. off medschoolguide because this is a topic of increasing interest.
     
  7. f_w

    f_w 1K Member
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    The way to the UK I described is more achievable for people in non-surgical specialties. It also depends on the labor market for a particular specialty. There seem to be more than enough surgeons to go around, so they can afford to be picky. The NHS is however bleeding for radiologists. There are a good number of rads from places like south africa and india who got their training recognized by the specialty training authority (or whatever their name of the day is). But you are less likely to find them in the bigger teaching places, they tend to cover the NHS hospitals less attractive for the brits.

    If you want to go to the UK for good, it is probably a good idea to get into the training system there right after medschool (if you are not an EU citizen, you will have to write the PLAB for that, and then there are no guarantees that you can get into the training path).
     
  8. qtpie055

    qtpie055 Member
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    Wow, you sound exactly like me. Well, except that I haven't matriculate into med school yet (accepted with 1 more year of undergrad). Having lived abroad here in the UK for a year, I really can see myself living here permanently. But having been accepted to a US med school and financial wise, I can't go to med school in the UK. Would also love to go work in the UK after I finish med school and residency. If you find more information, would you mind fwding me it? Thanks! xx
     
  9. dr strangelove

    dr strangelove Senior Member
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    Read my thread:

    http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=272128

    Unless you have EU citizenship, your chances of practicing under the new rules are slim.
     
  10. Ghost

    Ghost Senior Member
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  11. endodoc

    endodoc Endocrinologist (MD, PhD)
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    what if I am a EU citz. did med school in EU came to US became a Perm Resident, did IM residency and fellow, can I come to UK? Or am I not good enough for UK after my years in US?
     
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  12. f_w

    f_w 1K Member
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    There are four areas you have to look at for this plan to work:

    Primary medical qualification:

    - eu medschool: eligible for general registration with the GMC, no problem

    Immigration/work permit:

    - eu citizen: as per EU law, you have the freedom to work anywhere in the EU space

    Specialty credentials:

    - it will be up to the respective royal college to assess your US training and to decide whether it is up to their standards. It'll cost you something like 300GBP for them to do that, they then issue an opinion to the postgraduate training board (former 'specialist training authority') which if this opinion was positivive will give you a 'CCST' (certificate of completion of specialist training). With the CCST, you are eligible to be entered into the medical councils specialist register.

    Informal stiff lipped discrimination against everyone non-british

    - even with a CCST and your name on the specialist register, your ability to find work at your level of expertise will be determined by the labor market in that specialty. For example, while it is relatively easy for an indian trained radiologist with CCST to find consultant or locum consultant gigs, it can be extremely difficult for an anesthesiologist to get his foot in the door.
    And while your specialty college might have given you the nod, it doesn't mean you are a member of that college. And many employers or search committtees are heavily biased against anyone who is not a member of the respective royal college (your american board certification nonwithstanding).
     
  13. shetland

    shetland pony
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    What about doing an elective in England, is that possible for a Cdn med student?
     

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