U.S. Special Forces to Cardiothoracic Surgeon

[DrSegovia]

Brief Background:

20 years old. Self-Starter
I Have my Associates of Science (3.97 GPA) I speak English, French, Italian, Spanish, German and Turkish.

Always been physically fit.

I have an affinity for Medicine and I really see myself as a cardiovascular surgeon.

However, I have all of these skills that I believe will be truly tested and used as a Special Forces Medic. The humanitarian side of the Special Forces draws me in and also the traveling, paid 30 day vacation, benefits, tuition help...etc. But I honestly want to do that for the minimum amount of time because being a civilian Doctor is and always will be the dream.

My current plan:
-Get my BA in Biochemistry by 2018
-Enlist as an Officer in US Special Forces Medic
-After 4 years there, go to med school.
-Get my education benefits to help pay for med school and be on reserve for the remaining 4 years.


I know it's possible, so what are the caveats?

Or what are some of your opinions/tips, other options and ideas?

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[Mad Jack]

One does not simply walk into the special forces...

 

[DrSegovia]

One does not simply walk into the special forces...

Trult insightful, I appreciate your help.

 

[trev5150]

Good luck at SFAS.

 

[trev5150]

You better read a lot more about what you think you're getting into.

 

[eteshoe]

Not a helpful post, but the second I read the third line of your post all I could think of was this guy should join the CIA.

 

[DrMidlife]

Great! Dream big! But.

Step away from "cardiovascular" or "cardiothoracic" surgeon. Lighten that grip. Too tight. Let it fall. Too early. That's the same as "I wanna be a fireman" in an 8 year old. Boy that job looks cool.

And step away from "surgeon" too. Lighten that grip. You have to make friends with "doctor" as a service job that could theoretically end up being all fancy prestigious 20 years from now if you do everything right for 20 years. If you're not willing to end up in primary care, as you start med school, then you're not being realistic about the field. The only mature thing you can be sure you want right now, with respect to a career in medicine, is a great GPA in that biochem degree. Nobody's gonna take your distant goal away from you, but don't expect to be taken seriously until you're about halfway through gen surg residency in about 15 years.

Get to where you can describe your desired post-military job without using the word "doctor". The Disney movie in your head needs to be displaced by real experiences in real healthcare environments, including some outside the military, with real healthcare providers.

Best of luck to you.

 

[deleted551990]

So your plan is similar to what I did, and I can see that you're early on the path so here are a couple nuggets of (potential) wisdom-

You commission as an officer (as the above poster said). Also, I don't think you can be an "officer medic". Officers = nurses/doctors; medics = enlisted.

Commissioning for 4 years after undergrad is an awesome thing to do and you will gain invaluable life experience that will help you for the rest of your life. The GI bill will indeed pay for 3 years of your medical school if you go that route.

My recommendation-- if you really want to get your hands dirty in the special forces, go all in and enlist now as a medic. Then work on finishing your bachelors while you're active duty. Then get out and bank on the GI bill.

Second recommendation-- finish your bachelors degree and get the HPSP scholarship- which will pay for your med school and you then serve 4 years as an active duty physician.

If you spend 4 years in the mil before med school, the downside will be that it will be 4 years spent NOT becoming a doctor. Not that I think it's a bad use of your time, but you said in your post that you want to do the military for "as little amount of time as possible", and I don't personally think you can haphazardly go to SF school to get a line on your resume and qualify for the GI bill.

 

[alpinism]

1. You don't enlist as an officer.

2. Look up how long it takes to go through all the training... Basic, airborne, sfas, 18D course. By the time you get to a unit (if you make it through) they're not going to just let you leave after a year or two for med school.

3. You sound like someone that needs to do a little more research.

Exactly.

Not only that but the "humanitarian side" of SF is a very small part of their job. The chances of you joining and doing any significant humanitarian work within the first couple years is slim to none. The vast majority of your time will be spent working in a clinic or training with your unit.

Trust me, its not nearly as glamorous or exciting as it is in the movies.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

It sounds like you read a brochure for SF and crafted your plan from that. A significant portion of your plan is constructed on faulty information. Others have already touched on a lot of it, but I'd like to add:

1) Even if you enlist with an 18x (not 18d) contract, the minimum commitment is 5 years (but see point #3 below...it's more like 7).
2) There is no guarantee they'll let you become an 18d IF you are selected. If you aren't selected you'll most likely spend 5 years at Bragg as an infantryman.
3) That 5 year commitment starts when you FINISH all your initial training. Which means if you get selected and go through the 18d course you are looking at close to 2 years in the pipeline before your 5 year commitment begins. So IF you are selected you're looking at a minimum of 7 years in the Army. (Maybe shorter if you don't have to go to a language school... but seeing as you have an affinity towards languages they may want you to learn Farsi or something difficult).

If you want to be a civilian doctor you can spend time in the military. But don't think that you can just waltz onto an ODA and leave after a few years. The time commitment (not to mention risk to life) is not something to be taken lightly. Best of luck to you!

 

[Mad Jack]

OP has a fairly large misconception in that he believes the military will do what he thinks is best for him. But once you sign on the dotted line, the military does with you what they believe will be the best for them. If you're going in with a bachelor's degree and multiple languages under your belt, the chances that "spec ops medic" is the most useful post they can think of for you are slim to none.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

OP has a fairly large misconception in that he believes the military will do what he thinks is best for him. But once you sign on the dotted line, the military does with you what they believe will be the best for them. If you're going in with a bachelor's degree and multiple languages under your belt, the chances that "spec ops medic" is the most useful post they can think of for you are slim to none.

Well, yes and no. If you enlist you can sign a contract for a specific MOS. Then, by law, they are required to give you a chance at that job. So OP could sign a contract that would guarantee him a chance at attending SFAS (which is where they select SF candidates). But, if he fails the course (which lots of people do), then his contract is essentially voided and he goes to the needs of the Army. Since he would already be trained in the infantry MOS he'd just be assigned as an infantryman to whatever unit needed an infantryman (probably 82nd).

Essentially the pathway is: Basic training ➔ infantry school ➔ airborne ➔ SFAS pre course ➔ SFAS. At which point he is either selected and enters the pipeline or not selected and goes to the needs of the Army. If he is selected then he will be assigned one of the SF MOS's (only 1 of which is medic.) The other (entry level) are something like Weapons, Communications, Engineer, Medic.

However, if you commission as an officer, then you are going to the needs of the Army. With his language ability...probably intel (if you think the Army is smart...)

 

[Blue Spoon]

Brief Background:

20 years old. Self-Starter
I Have my Associates of Science (3.97 GPA) I speak English, French, Italian, Spanish, German and Turkish.

Always been physically fit.

I have an affinity for Medicine and I really see myself as a cardiovascular surgeon.

However, I have all of these skills that I believe will be truly tested and used as a Special Forces Medic. The humanitarian side of the Special Forces draws me in and also the traveling, paid 30 day vacation, benefits, tuition help...etc. But I honestly want to do that for the minimum amount of time because being a civilian Doctor is and always will be the dream.

My current plan:
-Get my BA in Biochemistry by 2018
-Enlist as an Officer in US Special Forces Medic
-After 4 years there, go to med school.
-Get my education benefits to help pay for med school and be on reserve for the remaining 4 years.


I know it's possible, so what are the caveats?

Or what are some of your opinions/tips, other options and ideas?

I was a Special Forces officer with 5th SFG (A). After team time was done I left the Army and am now finishing medical school and starting an orthopedic surgery residency next month. So what you suggest is certainly possible.

However, as others have stated your plan is somewhat off. You would need to decide whether you want to enlist or go the officer route. Both have benefits. If you go officer the only job available to you on an SFODA is Team Leader. All Special Forces Medics are enlisted.

Now not sound down on your plan, but pretty much everyone in SF is in (at least) good shape - most great shape. Speaking languages is a plus but far from the most important factor in a selection. The travel is not as glamorous as you may think - rarely are we sent to garden spots. You do get 30 days leave a year - but this isn't used as you want instead it is fit around other training and operations.

In SF the selection, the training and the life are all difficult. If you want to want to do it, good luck. Do your research and focus only on that. Understand that you will be unlikely to complete any prereqs during your time with SF. Focus on the goal in front of you and worry about the others down the road.

In medicine getting into medical school, doing well and then life through residency isn't easy either. If that is ultimately your dream why not just do that and not add any additional obstacles?

Just my opinion take it for what it is worth. Either way good luck.

 

[plukfelder2017]

So your plan is similar to what I did, and I can see that you're early on the path so here are a couple nuggets of (potential) wisdom-

You commission as an officer (as the above poster said). Also, I don't think you can be an "officer medic". Officers = nurses/doctors; medics = enlisted.

Commissioning for 4 years after undergrad is an awesome thing to do and you will gain invaluable life experience that will help you for the rest of your life. The GI bill will indeed pay for 3 years of your medical school if you go that route.

My recommendation-- if you really want to get your hands dirty in the special forces, go all in and enlist now as a medic. Then work on finishing your bachelors while you're active duty. Then get out and bank on the GI bill.

Second recommendation-- finish your bachelors degree and get the HPSP scholarship- which will pay for your med school and you then serve 4 years as an active duty physician.

If you spend 4 years in the mil before med school, the downside will be that it will be 4 years spent NOT becoming a doctor. Not that I think it's a bad use of your time, but you said in your post that you want to do the military for "as little amount of time as possible", and I don't personally think you can haphazardly go to SF school to get a line on your resume and qualify for the GI bill.

If you want to take on a role which will provide you with a similar experience to that of an 18D but on the officer side, I would look at a combat rescue officer (CRO) role in the airforce. I also back usmctodoc's statement that you should probably just enlist with an 18xx contract and watch how fate plays out in sfas. Other options include SARC as a navy corpsman who serves with recon or as a ranger medic in the army.

PS: you better jump on stew smith or mountain athlete training. There is a huge difference between physically fit and "durable." It would serve you well to learn the difference between those 2 before you start rucking non-stop with a pack that weighs half your body weight. Best of luck to you.

 

[Froggy25]

In SF the selection, the training and the life are all difficult. If you want to want to do it, good luck. Do your research and focus only on that. Understand that you will be unlikely to complete any prereqs during your time with SF. Focus on the goal in front of you and worry about the others down the road.

+1 to this. Successfully completing the pipeline and being a good SF guy require all of your attention and faculties, and even then it's hard.

On the practical side, I'd plan on 8 years. 4 years is just unrealistic if you want to go from off-the-street to SF, in either capacity.

 

[DrMikeP]

Others have covered most things, but I would add that you might want to find someone in special forces and speak with them in person. Also find someone who is a military physician and speak with them. It will give you an opportunity to ask questions and better understand the military demands first-hand.

I've had friends go into the military expecting to go a certain route (even under "contract") but end up being placed where the military saw fit. So don't always believe recruiters, as some will tell you anything is quite possible even when almost impossible and are about as helpful as some premed advisors.

Best of luck and service to our country is definitely an honorable path for someone in medicine!

Brief Background:

20 years old. Self-Starter
I Have my Associates of Science (3.97 GPA) I speak English, French, Italian, Spanish, German and Turkish.

Always been physically fit.

I have an affinity for Medicine and I really see myself as a cardiovascular surgeon.

However, I have all of these skills that I believe will be truly tested and used as a Special Forces Medic. The humanitarian side of the Special Forces draws me in and also the traveling, paid 30 day vacation, benefits, tuition help...etc. But I honestly want to do that for the minimum amount of time because being a civilian Doctor is and always will be the dream.

My current plan:
-Get my BA in Biochemistry by 2018
-Enlist as an Officer in US Special Forces Medic
-After 4 years there, go to med school.
-Get my education benefits to help pay for med school and be on reserve for the remaining 4 years.


I know it's possible, so what are the caveats?

Or what are some of your opinions/tips, other options and ideas?

 

[trev5150]

All military recruiters are sent to a school and trained to be an expert sales force. They know how to package whatever future you're looking for and tie it up with a nice pretty yellow bow. You'll be promised the moon and stars, oodles of cash and time off and willing women throwing themselves at you lustily. It's all BS. The money is terrible, the moon is the Mojave desert, Afghanistan to Iraq, you'll get shafted out of your leave, and the women are desert eat townies just looking to get pregnant married and on benefits, in that order.

If you do decide to go into any branch of the military, consider that time forfeit. You won't be completing college credits on active duty (another popular lie), you'll be deployed - unless you're an admin pog. If you go grunts you will be in the field or cleaning weapons. Just know up front it's never ever what you think it's gonna be, plain and simple.

 

[abn632]

You don't enlist as an officer to be a medic. You can enlist to be a medic, or become commissioned as an officer, but you cannot do both simultaneously, though it is possible to do them consecutively (enlisted medic then later commissioned as an officer). Either path will consume several years of your life. If you're looking for clinical, hands-on experience, go enlisted and become a medic. Unless you're a doctor/dentist/PA/Nurse etc., clinical experience as an officer is extremely unlikely.

If you're also looking for adventure and excitement, SF is not the only option. Ranger BN is always looking for good medics and USAF PJ's are top-notch. Be forewarned: none of these paths are easy.

 

[BombsAway]

As an EOD guy I've worked with lots of different units of varying levels of "special-ness". Each has their merits, but my experience with the air force PJ's is something i'll never forget. I recommend looking into that program. One day we had 10 casualties 9,000 feet up a valley in afghaniland, no place for a helo to land, so some super friendly PJ's did that cool thing where they hoist down/up with a basket and whisk your friends away to safety. I thought it was super cool, and I'd sign up for that job if I did it all over again. The worlds most bada** paramedics.
If you wash out you still end up with a nice life/duty stations in the Air force. If you wash out of the army SF pipeline (which is like 80% likely to happen, injuries kill dreams every day) you'll end up doing a job you never wanted in Fayetteville NC, or someplace worse for the full length of your original contract (probably 6 years).

Also, please don't discount the realities of today's warfare. It's not glamorous like on TV. We mostly walk/drive around until people shoot at us/blow us up. Being shot at/blown up for no reason isn't fun. Being super good friends with your teammates and seeing them get shot/blown up is even less fun. Going back home and hugging their wives/children and telling them how much he loved them is super-duper not fun.

If you wanna go do SF/cool guy stuff, do that. If you wanna practice medicine, do that. Trying to combine two very different, very difficult things only illuminates your current level of indecision.

 

[trev5150]

Permanent party at Ft. Irwin doing range cleanup.

 

[alpinism]

If you want to take on a role which will provide you with a similar experience to that of an 18D but on the officer side, I would look at a combat rescue officer (CRO) role in the airforce. I also back usmctodoc's statement that you should probably just enlist with an 18xx contract and watch how fate plays out in sfas. Other options include SARC as a navy corpsman who serves with green-side recon or as a ranger medic in the army.

PS: you better jump on stew smith or mountain athlete training. There is a huge difference between physically fit and "durable." It would serve you well to learn the difference between those 2 before you start rucking non-stop with a pack that weighs half your body weight. Best of luck to you.

True, however CROs only receive EMT-B training while PJs receive full EMT-P training.

In addition, they mostly function in a command and control role rather than providing actual hands on medical care.

Edit: Here's a good overview -
https://www.reddit.com/r/AirForce/comments/1bq3cr/pararescue_man_vs_combat_rescue_officer/

 

[alpinism]

As an EOD guy I've worked with lots of different units of varying levels of "special-ness". Each has their merits, but my experience with the air force PJ's is something i'll never forget. I recommend looking into that program. One day we had 10 casualties 9,000 feet up a valley in afghaniland, no place for a helo to land, so some super friendly PJ's did that cool thing where they hoist down/up with a basket and whisk your friends away to safety. I thought it was super cool, and I'd sign up for that job if I did it all over again. The worlds most bada** paramedics.
If you wash out you still end up with a nice life/duty stations in the Air force. If you wash out of the army SF pipeline (which is like 80% likely to happen, injuries kill dreams every day) you'll end up doing a job you never wanted in Fayetteville NC, or someplace worse for the full length of your original contract (probably 6 years).

Also, please don't discount the realities of today's warfare. It's not glamorous like on TV. We mostly walk/drive around until people shoot at us/blow us up. Being shot at/blown up for no reason isn't fun. Being super good friends with your teammates and seeing them get shot/blown up is even less fun. Going back home and hugging their wives/children and telling them how much he loved them is super-duper not fun.

If you wanna go do SF/cool guy stuff, do that. If you wanna practice medicine, do that. Trying to combine two very different, very difficult things only illuminates your current level of indecision.

Agreed, PJs are badasses. Just realize that missions like that are few and far between.

Hey we still have our fair share of **** hole bases. Minot? Altus? Goodfellow?

We can't all be stationed at Nellis or Eglin.

 

[xffan624]

Permanent party at Ft. Irwin doing range cleanup.

Most **** base in the Army (it's still 2 hours from Vegas though!). But as pointed out, there are not fun places in every service. I think every place can have its upside. I spent 3 years at what's considered a pretty crap base in the Army (Ft. Bliss). I still had fun and did a lot of cool things while I was there. And that was even after they closed the mexican border for soldiers to visit due to the drug violence. Korea is another place that is maligned by some service members. I had a blast there. Visited lots of places in Seoul and other Asian countries. Even with some restrictive pass limitations due to some knuckleheads.

 

[trev5150]

I did my hitch at 29 Palms, and it's universally accepted that I automatically win any duty station pity party showdown. Edit: I will defer to Why Not Minot when challenged.

 

[deleted551990]

I did my hitch at 29 Palms, and it's universally accepted that I automatically win any duty station pity party showdown. Edit: I will defer to Why Not Minot when challenged.

I concur wholeheartedly

 

[xffan624]

I did my hitch at 29 Palms, and it's universally accepted that I automatically win any duty station pity party showdown. Edit: I will defer to Why Not Minot when challenged.

I would never put Ft. Bliss in a crap base list, but some people do, and it actually improved quite a bit as far as the facilities go in the time I was there with the 1st Armored Division moving in.

 

[68PGunner]

The sewage treatment ponds at 29 Palms are called Lake Bandini and are perpetually upwind of everyone and everything on the base.

It rained once the entire four years I was there.

It's 130 degrees in August and the relative humidity is around 17%. You can respirate off a gallon of water in a day. Your sweat evaporates so quickly you don't even realize. Your cammies are just crusted in salt and you stink.

You're surrounded by unexploded ordnance an depleted uranium dust.

The town outside the gate is full of derelict meth heads.

It's on a fault line. The earthquakes are, shall we say, "sporty".

The army sold it to the Marine Corps for a dollar after it was assessed as unfit for human habitation.

That's home base.

I'm describing this for the benefit of those that will either never see these places, or are contemplating joining up thinking it's all fruit cups and parades.

ROFL When the US Army deems a place unfit for human habitation, it must be a nuclear wasteland x 10. Ft Irwin was a hell hole. I pity the fool that gets stationed over there.

 

[DrSegovia]

UPDATE:

Thanks to everyone who gave me some wisdom and those few SF peeps...
I can't help but laugh at my original post for how ridiculously naive it was.

I enlisted as a 68W40. I'm a few credits short of my BS in healthcare admin so I'll be doing that in the coming months online.
I also spoke to several military physicians and 18D's -- I'm definitely going to be in the military longer than I thought.

Now I'm planning on going to USUHS and getting my MD there. There's a fantastic 6 years of active duty service requirement with another 7 reserves. Fortunately, I'll be doing my residency and fellowship during that time so no worries. My ultimate goal to become a surgeon is finally a bit clearer now.

Thanks again!

 

[Goro]

Like Deans, recruiters are paid to lie.

All military recruiters are sent to a school and trained to be an expert sales force. They know how to package whatever future you're looking for and tie it up with a nice pretty yellow bow. You'll be promised the moon and stars, oodles of cash and time off and willing women throwing themselves at you lustily. It's all BS. The money is terrible, the moon is the Mojave desert, Afghanistan to Iraq, you'll get shafted out of your leave, and the women are desert eat townies just looking to get pregnant married and on benefits, in that order.

If you do decide to go into any branch of the military, consider that time forfeit. You won't be completing college credits on active duty (another popular lie), you'll be deployed - unless you're an admin pog. If you go grunts you will be in the field or cleaning weapons. Just know up front it's never ever what you think it's gonna be, plain and simple.

Is Thule, Greenland still a base? How about Diego Garcia?
One of my best friend was station at Blytheville AFB (a SAC base at the time) and even then the AF people all shuddered at the idea of being based in Minot.

And to all of you in the service, or have been in the service, many thanks for serving our country!!

Agreed, PJs are badasses. Just realize that missions like that are few and far between.

Hey we still have our fair share of **** hole bases. Minot? Altus? Goodfellow?

We can't all be stationed at Nellis or Eglin.

 

[trev5150]

Thule was a big deal back in the Cold War because of aircraft ranges and radar coverage at the time. Pretty sure it's downgraded to just Space Command (running satellites) and weather observation. Diego Garcia belongs to the Brits. Blytheville was closed by BRAC in 1992.
As my uncle (a former KC-135 driver) used to say "Why Not Minot?"

 

[MountainManMike]

Not a helpful post, but the second I read the third line of your post all I could think of was this guy should join the CIA.

you don't find the CIA, the CIA finds YOU

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

UPDATE:

Thanks to everyone who gave me some wisdom and those few SF peeps...
I can't help but laugh at my original post for how ridiculously naive it was.

I enlisted as a 68W40. I'm a few credits short of my BS in healthcare admin so I'll be doing that in the coming months online.
I also spoke to several military physicians and 18D's -- I'm definitely going to be in the military longer than I thought.

Now I'm planning on going to USUHS and getting my MD there. There's a fantastic 6 years of active duty service requirement with another 7 reserves. Fortunately, I'll be doing my residency and fellowship during that time so no worries. My ultimate goal to become a surgeon is finally a bit clearer now.

Thanks again!

You're making progress, so kudos to that, but you are still harboring some misconceptions. It's important to understand that any time spent in training, is NOT counting towards your payback. Yeah USUHS has an active and reserve requirement. But don't think for one minute they will count residency and/or fellowship as payback. That time begins after you complete ALL training. So if you want to do CT in the military (which if you head over to the milmed forums I think everyone will tell you is a mistake) then you are looking at 7 years payback AFTER you do your residency + fellowship (which, if you are lucky, will be all in one fell swoop).

So realistically, from training to payback it's more like 14 years (after you finish medical school). And that is really the best case scenario.

Again, if you really want CT surgery, I would go to a civilian med school and residency. Then you can always join after. GI bill will cover most of your medical education if you are thrifty.

Either way I hope you are enjoying your time. I do wish you the best of luck in the future. Cheers!

 

[BombsAway]

Your stated goals: BS biochem, 18 series officer, and/or/later CT surgeon

Your actions: enlisted line medic, online healthcare admin.

Why u do dis?!?

Either you got scammed by a recruiter (happens to the best of us, don't beat yourself up about it), or you are making poor decisions.

Your job as a 68W line medic will be a combination of running sick call and doing nothing... If you haven't left for basic yet its not too late to change your MOS/contract.

Is it possible you see a 68w enlistment as a path to USHUS? I would do some more research on that one.

Are your pre-reqs all done? Will you be able to apply to med schools before they "expire"?

If at the end of this process you leave the military with nothing but the GI bill, it won't have been a waste of 4 years, so at least there's that.

Good luck (but please don't).

 

[airbornedude]

Your stated goals: BS biochem, 18 series officer, and/or/later CT surgeon

Your actions: enlisted line medic, online healthcare admin.

Why u do dis?!?

Either you got scammed by a recruiter (happens to the best of us, don't beat yourself up about it), or you are making poor decisions.

Your job as a 68W line medic will be a combination of running sick call and doing nothing... If you haven't left for basic yet its not too late to change your MOS/contract.

Is it possible you see a 68w enlistment as a path to USHUS? I would do some more research on that one.

Are your pre-reqs all done? Will you be able to apply to med schools before they "expire"?

If at the end of this process you leave the military with nothing but the GI bill, it won't have been a waste of 4 years, so at least there's that.

Good luck (but please don't).

I thought being a 68W was great! If he does the option 40 route he will have the opportunity to attend SOCM, which would be great experience. No way will he be be able to finish his degree while serving though haha. If he drops RASP or SOCM he will go straight to the 82nd, where free time goes to die.

 

[BombsAway]

I thought being a 68W was great! If he does the option 40 route he will have the opportunity to attend SOCM, which would be great experience. No way will he be be able to finish his degree while serving though haha. If he drops RASP or SOCM he will go straight to the 82nd, where free time goes to die.

Ah, when I read 68w40 I thought he made an error. I thought the 10-20-30-40 was a skill level identifier. I did option 40 back when it was called rip. i'll never forget hitting the woodline or "get on the blacktop"!

SOCM would be great, agreed. But at best it would be taking the long route for him in terms of achieving his 18D and CT surgeon goals.

 

[airbornedude]

Ah, when I read 68w40 I thought he made an error. I thought the 10-20-30-40 was a skill level identifier. I did option 40 back when it was called rip. i'll never forget hitting the woodline or "get on the blacktop"!

SOCM would be great, agreed. But at best it would be taking the long route for him in terms of achieving his 18D and CT surgeon goals.

Yeah his plan is definitely going to take longer than he is expecting. I certainly wouldn't join as a way to go into medicine. I kinda figured that out after lol.