U Wisconsin vs. Dartmouth

[blanket_wistful]

Hi everyone, I am currently interested in pursuing a surgical specialty (I really love the idea of gen surg/trauma surg) and am aiming for academia, so I would like to set myself up for residency at a strong academic center. Even if I change my mind, I’d like to know that I have a good chance of pursuing that goal. Provided that I am able to perform well, which of these schools do you think would put me in the best position to accomplish those goals?

U Wisconsin
Pros:
- Big on research funding (top 40 NIH funded school, #27 US News in Research)
- Has faculty working on the exact project I am interested in
- Cheaper COL
- Would be able to walk to class and grocery stores
- Love the culture, food, and other fun things that Madison has to offer
- Offered a $10K annual scholarship, makes me feel kind of valued
- Faculty and students have been kind and receptive to questions.

Cons:
- Potentially more expensive (~$210K total)
- Staff is secretive about match lists, haven’t publicly published any. Provided 2018’s on request, but this is only a one year sample and many gen surg matched at community hospitals.
- Larger class
- 7 to 9 students per cadaver in anatomy lab

Dartmouth
Pros:
-The people here have been so kind and welcoming.
- Potentially less expensive. Still waiting on financial aid, but possibly less than $200K total.
- Awesome, largely academic match list across the board. Students going to gen surg residencies in places I would like to live (near family), including U Wash, UCSD, and UCLA.
- Loved the hospital.
- Smaller class size ~90. Might lend more of a tight-knit, family feel to the class.
- 4 to 5 students per cadaver in anatomy lab
- Provide a new iPad to all students
- Location in New England may make it more feasible to network with and do away rotations at big name schools/hospitals in the area.

Cons:
- Not as much to do, but not sure if I would have time for much anyway.
- Switching to a new curriculum this fall, would be a “guinea pig.”
- Does not have anything published on the specific research I am interested in (yet).
- Would need to commute to school.
- School asks for $5K upfront the summer before matriculating. This would be difficult for me to come up with; I might need to take out a personal loan for it.
- Lower ranked (#45 in research), less research funding.
- Won’t get to attend second look to get a better impression of the place.
- Clinical rotations all over the country make me nervous; I have a medium sized dog that might be difficult to bring along.

I really loved my interview days at both schools. If accomplishing big goals in academia will be just as tough from either institution, I may just go with whatever ends up being cheaper. Thanks in advance for your help and opinions!

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[puahate]

U Wisconsin.

Scholarships, stronger research, cheaper COL

 

[lalalallala]

I don't think the price difference of 200 vs 210 should be a deciding factor. I'm surprised Wisconsin is so expensive with your scholarship? Bummer.

I wouldn't be too concerned about Wisconsin grads going to community hospitals. For all you know that was their dream - some people like them because there can be less pressure to do research, maybe the ones they picked had a really supportive program, were near family, etc. I also wouldn't be concerned about the difference in the research rankings. For one they're not that different and secondly you only need one PI to work with - you can have that at a school lower on the rankings list.

I also am not really sure that the class size difference should be a huge deal - but to each their own. In my eyes more people can give you more potential friend options since not everyone you meet will turn out to be your best friend - but that's just me.

The three factors I would be considering the most if I were you would be:

1. location - Dartmouth is very much in the middle of no where. 2 hours to Boston which isn't bad but mostly you will be out in nature - do you like doing outdoorsy activities? Are you okay with not having much access to non Dartmouth people? Is diversity a huge deal to you? Seems like Wisconsin wins in this regard based on your pro/cons list

2. fit - where did you like the students better - where did you feel like you could see yourself fitting in/your personality fit with the students and vibe of the school

3. the school itself - which curriculum seems the best for you? does one school have certain opportunities that would really be great for you (you mentioned Wisconsin working on a project you're interested in)? Do you have to travel for Dartmouth? it can be a pain to travel depending on the school because not all schools offer housing at the sites and your dog

 

[blanket_wistful]

I don't think the price difference of 200 vs 210 should be a deciding factor. I'm surprised Wisconsin is so expensive with your scholarship? Bummer.

I wouldn't be too concerned about Wisconsin grads going to community hospitals. For all you know that was their dream - some people like them because there can be less pressure to do research, maybe the ones they picked had a really supportive program, were near family, etc. I also wouldn't be concerned about the difference in the research rankings. For one they're not that different and secondly you only need one PI to work with - you can have that at a school lower on the rankings list.

I also am not really sure that the class size difference should be a huge deal - but to each their own. In my eyes more people can give you more potential friend options since not everyone you meet will turn out to be your best friend - but that's just me.

The three factors I would be considering the most if I were you would be:

1. location - Dartmouth is very much in the middle of no where. 2 hours to Boston which isn't bad but mostly you will be out in nature - do you like doing outdoorsy activities? Are you okay with not having much access to non Dartmouth people? Is diversity a huge deal to you? Seems like Wisconsin wins in this regard based on your pro/cons list

2. fit - where did you like the students better - where did you feel like you could see yourself fitting in/your personality fit with the students and vibe of the school

3. the school itself - which curriculum seems the best for you? does one school have certain opportunities that would really be great for you (you mentioned Wisconsin working on a project you're interested in)? Do you have to travel for Dartmouth? it can be a pain to travel depending on the school because not all schools offer housing at the sites and your dog

Thanks for your help! Curriculum wise, Dartmouth is switching to a new curriculum that is very similar to what Wisconsin has in place now. 1.5 year preclinical, P/F. I could see myself fitting in with both schools and made some great connections with students, faculty, and interviewees on both interview days. The outdoorsy-ness of Dartmouth does not particularly appeal to me, but I wondered if it would make a real difference—like, would I have time to enjoy all that Madison has to offer anyway, if I went there instead?

You make a good point about the benefit of a larger class. I hadn’t thought about it that way.

 

[catnip12]

Did you attend second look days at either or both of these?

 

[blanket_wistful]

Did you attend second look days at either or both of these?

I was only able to attend Wisconsin’s. While I was there I felt very at home in the Madison area and with the other admitted students. I believe I’ll be matriculating there in the fall.

 

[Quantal Reasoning]

I advocate for going where you'd be happiest. Wisconsin looks like that winner in your case.

 

[catnip12]

Perfect!! Glad to hear it! I think you’ve made the right choice

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

Have you for sure made your decision friend? Or still open to advice/insight?

 

[blanket_wistful]

Have you for sure made your decision friend? Or still open to advice/insight?

I’m definitely still open to advice! Please share.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

I really don't even think its close my friend. If you are specifically interested in being at a strong academic place for residency then...100% choose Dartmouth. I could care less about rankings, it will set you up much much much better to land at a prestigious NE program. Hell, even a West Coast or anywhere in between program haha. Their match list is nearly across the board phenomenal. If you do well at Dartmouth, the connections and reputation are there to put you in your ivory residency tower.

Wisconsin may be great, but you would be better off at a Dartmouth/Brown over several other "higher ranked" public schools (e.g., Wisconsin, Alabama, Florida, USC-private, Colorado, UC Davis, etc.) for academia/prestige of residency purposes.

That being said, its really a unique place to live...rurality wise. That is definitely something to consider. Also, you have to do well on Step and go find those opportunities to land where you want. Haha, obviously a person who makes a 205 on Step is not going to be heading to Harvard in anything- from Dartmouth or Wisconsin.

 

[catnip12]

^ I’ve seen you on almost every Dartmouth vs X telling folks to choose Dartmouth. It’s a good school no doubt, but I think you’re overstating it’s advantage in this case anyway. Besides academia =/= prestigious NE program.

Maybe OP might actually have an easier path to Academia in a place like Wisconsin where there’s less competition vs a place in the NE which is crowded by people who all seem to be vying for the same few spots.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

catnip12.

^ I’ve seen you on almost every Dartmouth vs X telling folks to choose Dartmouth. It’s a good school no doubt, but I think you’re overstating it’s advantage in this case anyway. Besides academia =/= prestigious NE program.

Maybe OP might actually have an easier path to Academia in a place like Wisconsin where there’s less competition vs a place in the NE which is crowded by people who all seem to be vying for the same few spots.

I don't advocate for Dartmouth per se, I tell people where realistically will set them up best for their goals. And the honest truth is that Dartmouth will set this individual up better to be at prestigious residencies (NE programs esp.) than Wisconsin. I would tell her/him the same thing if it was Brown and possibly even Georgetown. The "name brand" undoubtedly (and unfortunately) carries weight in residency directors minds, whether SDN likes it or not. The honest truth is that these graduates across the board land at better places than they SHOULD solely given the rank of the school.

Unfortunately, in academia, there is a heavy weight placed on prestige- where you went to school/trained. I have many family members in high levels of academia. I don't even know what your comment about "vying for the same few spots" means. haha. Dartmouth is a small community, not cutthroat at all, and has verrrry close ties to big NE programs. Given what this person said her/his goals are, it is the better option. Again, I am not advocating specifically for Dartmouth...if she/he got into a NWestern/UChicago/Penn/Cornell etc., then I would suggest one of those. But between these two, Dartmouth is better given their specifically stated goals.

That being said, there are a lot of factors that go into choosing a medical school! Everyone has their reasons for why they attend certain places, and sometimes you just have a gut feeling! If this person feels like Wisconsin is the place to go, then 100% do that!

 

[puahate]

Wisconsin is no slouch though and I'm pretty sure is ranked above Dartmouth. Don't get undergrad ranking mixed with medical school rankings.

Wisconsin match in surgical subspecialties this year was amazing.

 

[CarpeDiem1993]

Wisconsin is no slouch though and I'm pretty sure is ranked above Dartmouth. Don't get undergrad ranking mixed with medical school rankings.

Wisconsin match in surgical subspecialties this year was amazing.

Wisconsin is definitely an awesome school. I am not "mixing up undergrad and med school rankings." I know it's technically ranked higher bc of research funding. That was my whole point- that the ranking does not portray the real picture about the strength of each school and where each school tends to send its graduates.

Anyway, ok. I'm done giving my 2 cents haha. At least OP gets to see more than one perspective now. Either school is great, congrats on the choice! If you have any more questions feel free to message me.