UCI vs. USC

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zer0el

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on my interview trips, i've met a couple of CA applicants and we've debated on this topic (we generally want to stay in so cali and are assuming we're not getting into ucla). most of them said they would pick USC without a doubt. that surprised me since i was always really gung-ho about the UC's. but i couldn't really offer any reasons why UCI was better than USC other than the cheaper cost of attending UCI. anyone have any thoughts? the USC supporters brought up USC's superior clinical training, connections, national rep (not sure about this one), and curriculum (also not sure about this one). what do y'all think?
 
UCI is in a pretty quiet and safe neighborhood near the beach... USC is well... in not such a good place.

The drawback with that is that you gotta take the 405 to get to LA, and as far as I could tell there aren't too many things to do in Irvine. (not that I have a life anyway, but maybe some less socially challenged people might care)

Other than that, I can't think of anything besides the tuition thing you already mentioned.
 
yeah the trojan family of connections is incredible... maybe that's why people say USC might have national recognition. I noticed that the head of ENT at Wash U is from USC.... also the founding father of pediatric ENT was also affiliated with USC Children's Hospital... and... (I had to get this in somewhere...) we just won the Heisman Trophy!!! I don't know how this might affect your decision, but USC definitely has an awesome atmosphere and school spirit. Just imagine... becoming one of the Doctors of USC.... 🙂
 
How is the cost of living in Irvine? I've heard from friends that the Pasadena-area rents can be pretty steep. I guess if it was significantly cheaper this could be a factor in picking UCI, along with the lower tuition.

And I too am very glad to see the Heisman return to the PAC-10.
Hopefully, so will the NCAA Basketball title come March.... Go Wildcats! :clap:
 
rent in pasadena is steep but the area where most of the med students live is just outside of pasadena in monterey hills... rent there is really reasonable... especially compared to rent near the undergraduate campus...

i heard that the rent in irvine isn't that bad... probably comparable to monterey hills... irvine is really convenient too in terms of food etc... the city is really well planned, pretty much the ideal definition of suburbia.
 
i think the cost of living at both schools is comparable. my family actually lives in So. Pas. (ten minutes away from USC's HSC), but i know that rent in a decent neighborhood around USC can be expensive. my bro is an undergrad at UCI, and his rent isn't too cheap either (the area right around UCI seems to be pretty expensive).
 
I currently live in Irvine as a student and I can tell you that on a student's budget, rent in Irvine is pretty expensive (around $600-700 a month if you want your own room). If you get graduate housing, that's a different story (max $400 for your own room), although I hear that they are thinking of raising the rent. I have a friend who goes to USC and lives near the campus, and he is renting a place (own room + bathroom) for $500 a month. So I guess it all depends on your luck.

Otherwise, Irvine is an incredibly boring city. yeah, it's very convenient if you need to go grocery shopping or whatever, and I hear it's the best place for raising a family...but if you're someone who needs an active social life, you would be bored out of your mind here. But it's a very safe city. I have no hesitation going out for a midnight stroll by myself.

The area around USC is less safe, but has more character. I wish I could tell you more about the curriculum, but I can't. Sorry. But here's my opinion...go to the one that makes you happy.
 
any more thoughts on this?
 
Personally, I would go with UCI, mostly for the cheaper tuition. I agree that the location is kind of boring, though. 🙄
 
The school itself (USC) is actually a ton better than UCI. At least that is what I heard from the three people I know who got into both UCI and USC and choose USC (I don't know anybody who went the other way, and I knew these people from UCLA)
As for rent, most people live in Monterrey Hills, a great neighborhood 3 miles away where your own room could run from 500$ to 750 tops. And these apartments are way better than any I lived in at UCLA.
 
hey jalby, can u give some reasons why they chose USC over UCI? it seems as though people choose UCI simply for cost-reasons (which is of course a huge factor).

by monterey hills do u mean south pasadena? i live on a street off of via del rey, so if i went to usc, it'd be really convenient. i'm not sure how living at home would affect bonding with classmates though.
 
Originally posted by UCLAstudent
Personally, I would go with UCI, mostly for the cheaper tuition. I agree that the location is kind of boring, though. 🙄

Why do people keep bringing up the fact that Irvine is a boring city? C'mon, you guys will be med students, it's not like you're gonna party 24/7. 😉 😛
 
Originally posted by zer0el
hey jalby, can u give some reasons why they chose USC over UCI? it seems as though people choose UCI simply for cost-reasons (which is of course a huge factor).

by monterey hills do u mean south pasadena? i live on a street off of via del rey, so if i went to usc, it'd be really convenient. i'm not sure how living at home would affect bonding with classmates though.

I can't really give you to much information about why us over UCI, because to be honest, most of my UCI info is second hand and I wouldn't want to spread any info that could be wrong. Here are a few positives at USC that I'm not sure UCI could match:

1. They just redid the curriculum so that it is a systems based approach. The first semester, you get taught basic stuff like biochemistry, histology, etc,etc. But we also get taught stuff like microbiology, pharmacoloy, and pathology. This stuff is heavily tested on the boards. Some schools teach the basic organ systems the first year, then what goes wrong with them the second year (which is what is tested on the boards) So their first year is pretty much useless, while we learn stuff we can use and basically have 2 years to study for the boards.

2. County is absolutely amazing. The population around here is very underserved, so the only time they really come in is when something is really really wrong, so the type of experience you get here is tons better (in most cases) than what you would see any other place. People who do residency in our ER can get a job anywhere because of the experience they have.

3. LA. Here is one thing that I can definately say is better than UCI, the life. There is so much to do here. I frequently meet people who drive up from orange county to LA to have fun. I know this is where I wanna be a doctor, so USC gives me a better chance than UCI.

As for the specific question about weather living at home will affect your social life, that really depends on you. Med school is a place where you make your own social life, and a lot of the funnest people here live at home. (I am also shocked by how fun our students are)
 
Ok so i have pretty much decided on USC but I guess i kind of need reassurance that I am not a ****** for going to a much more expensive school cuz i like it more.
 
UCI isn't as boring as people make it out to be... Umm, we have large parking lots, natural reserves and best of all everything closes at 11pm (leaving all you vandals out there with an opportunity to do what you love before midnight)! Also, don't forget, there's a curfew for minors after 10pm so you don?t have to worry about high schoolers taking the cool hangout places.

On a more serious note, I'd rather be in UCI than USC not only for the cost of tuition, but also for sedate atmosphere of Irvine (good for studying). If you want to go to a rowdy place at night to get drunk, Huntington Beach is just 20 min away (don?t get in the water) as is Laguna (watch for the gay sites).

AJ ? Twiddling away in Irvine?
 
except for tuition, i can't think of a single reason a sane person would choose UCI. for the love of god, go to USC!
 
I visited UCI the other day and while walking around campus, I saw this huge dried weed ball rolling along the deserted sidwalk...it reminded me of a western cowboy movie...

So now, the only thing that pops up when I think of UCI is a western movie with huge dried weed balls rolling along the dirt roads...which is actually very nice!
 
Originally posted by jtn
I visited UCI the other day and while walking around campus, I saw this huge dried weed ball rolling along the deserted sidwalk...

A weed ball! Hell yeah! UCI is awesome! The Chronic MD loves weed balls, and dank brownies, and goo balls, and ganja cake and...oh...maybe I misunderstood you.
 
again- i am hijaking this ole thread since it is may 14th and i think i am picking davis over usc<---- need some assurance that i am making a good choice as i think davis and uci are pretty similar. anyone? input?
thanks,
most indecisive girl ever
 
Wow. This Jalby guy has some great advice. And on a side note, the OP is going to USC 🙂
 
Originally posted by kiping
again- i am hijaking this ole thread since it is may 14th and i think i am picking davis over usc<---- need some assurance that i am making a good choice as i think davis and uci are pretty similar. anyone? input?
thanks,
most indecisive girl ever

Did you call the person you wanted to talk to???
 
i emailed her- since i am running around at work so much that i don't have much of a chance to talk on the phone ever... plus i was too shy
 
Originally posted by kiping
i emailed her- since i am running around at work so much that i don't have much of a chance to talk on the phone ever... plus i was too shy
Well, you know my position on the subject. I think you should call her. She is one of the nicest people you will ever meet.
 
You are the biggest idiot to choose usc over uci. At least about 50% of any UC med have students who gave up top 10 or 20 schools, not to mention the less prestigious usc. As for uci, it is well-known some people even give up ucsd for it, since it's a less competitive environment.

does any employer or customer "really" care if you went to the best private high school or university? the only thing that matters usually is gpa, sats, mcats, board scores, and how good you are in the job/lab/clinic. one would always choose an experienced lab worker from stmarys college than someone from yale who barely knows how to pipet.
 
Originally posted by profunda
You are the biggest idiot to choose usc over uci. At least about 50% of any UC med have students who gave up top 10 or 20 schools, not to mention the less prestigious usc. As for uci, it is well-known some people even give up ucsd for it, since it's a less competitive environment.

does any employer or customer "really" care if you went to the best private high school or university? the only thing that matters usually is gpa, sats, mcats, board scores, and how good you are in the job/lab/clinic. one would always choose an experienced lab worker from stmarys college than someone from yale who barely knows how to pipet.

Thanks dude. Did i say i chose USC because it is private?
 
Originally posted by profunda
You are the biggest idiot to choose usc over uci. At least about 50% of any UC med have students who gave up top 10 or 20 schools, not to mention the less prestigious usc. As for uci, it is well-known some people even give up ucsd for it, since it's a less competitive environment.

I'd love to see the stats on this. Here are some stats I have:

School GPA MCAT Combined (10*GPA + MCAT) (Purely arbitrary on my part)

UCSF 3.75 33.6 71.1
UCLA 3.68 31.8 68.6
UCSD 3.78 32.7 70.5
Keck 3.61 32.4 68.5
UCI 3.69 32.1 69.0
UCD 3.52 31.2 66.4


Wow. I never realized how close everybody was in just MCAT and GPA. We almost have better stats than UCLA. Considering we cost a more than the other schools, there must be quite a few reasons to choose USC over some of the other UC's based on purely numerical analysis.
 
Originally posted by profunda
You are the biggest idiot to choose usc over uci. At least about 50% of any UC med have students who gave up top 10 or 20 schools, not to mention the less prestigious usc. As for uci, it is well-known some people even give up ucsd for it, since it's a less competitive environment.

does any employer or customer "really" care if you went to the best private high school or university? the only thing that matters usually is gpa, sats, mcats, board scores, and how good you are in the job/lab/clinic. one would always choose an experienced lab worker from stmarys college than someone from yale who barely knows how to pipet.

oh- now here is someone really mature... so bounty's the biggest idiot... well two, no actually three, really good california med schools seem to think otherwise. since you are not bounty you cannot possibly have the same issues or reasons that she has. she has chosen usc, she is happy with her choice. phooey on you
 
I am so ashamed of BOTH of you! Why? Because you were on SDN last night at 11:39 and 11:58 pm! Ladies! C'mon! You are cooler that that! Go have a beer, a VO and tonic, a martini, something...Go out and try to mack so'en (I know kiping...you gotta man)...Whatever you do, don't go on SDN after 5 pm! Ladies, ladies, ladies! When will you ever learn? You hotties need a lesson in how to demonstrate proper Chronic-steelo.

By the way, Bounty...congrats on USC. It's YOUR choice, not anybody else's...and kiping...congrats on Davis. You both are still hot, albeit nerds cuz you both jones for SDN late night. Alright, I'm out...

C
 
Originally posted by The Chronic MD
I am so ashamed of BOTH of you! Why? Because you were on SDN last night at 11:35 and 11:59 pm! Ladies! C'mon! You are cooler that that! Go have a beer, a VO and tonic, a martini, something...Go out and try to mack so'en (I know kiping...you gotta man)...Whatever you do, don't go on SDN after 5 pm! Ladies, ladies, ladies! When will you ever learn? You hotties need a lesson in how to demonstrate proper Chronic-steelo.

By the way, Bounty...congrats on USC. It's YOUR choice, not anybody else's...and kiping...congrats on Davis. You both are still hot, albeit nerds cuz you both jones for SDN late night. Alright, I'm out...

C
oh the shame, the shame! chronic- you are right... you did catch the two of us on sdn, on a thursday, at midnight...
in my own defense, i had just came home after a wild night of beer, bad basketball, and the lunar eclipse<--- omg- makes me sound like the bigger nerd.... the shame...
 
Originally posted by kiping
oh the shame, the shame! chronic- you are right... you did catch the two of us on sdn, on a thursday, at midnight...
in my own defense, i had just came home after a wild night of beer, bad basketball, and the lunar eclipse<--- omg- makes me sound like the bigger nerd.... the shame...

You don't have to lie to me. I know you jonesed on SDN for over 12 hours, listening to the constant ramblings of that Jalby dude and sticking up for your girl Bounty. Honestly, I am ashamed. You will never get any love from the Chronic ever again. 😉
 
Originally posted by The Chronic MD
You don't have to lie to me. I know you jonesed on SDN for over 12 hours, listening to the constant ramblings of that Jalby dude and sticking up for your girl Bounty. Honestly, I am ashamed. You will never get any love from the Chronic ever again. 😉

hahahha
In my defense, I was simultaneously watching the Dawson's Creek Series finale (i had it on tape)...oh wait, thats not much of a defense is it....
 
Originally posted by Bounty
hahahha
In my defense, I was simultaneously watching the Dawson's Creek Series finale (i had it on tape)...oh wait, thats not much of a defense is it....
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 
Bounty and Kiping - Lose my phone number. :laugh:
 
I'd love to see the stats on what you've said about
1) "the only time they really come in is when something is really really wrong, so the type of experience you get here is tons better (in most cases) than what you would see any other place. People who do residency in our ER can get a job anywhere because of the experience they have."
2) "Here is one thing that I can definately say is better than UCI, the life. There is so much to do here. I frequently meet people who drive up from orange county to LA to have fun."
3) "The school itself (USC) is actually a ton better than UCI."

It was pretty obvious to me we were giving our opinions, not statistical facts.

By the way, for your ignorance, uci hospital is basically a orange "county" hospital near long beach. other than more frequent gunshot wounds, i cant imagine how much more a usc hospital would see.

Originally posted by Jalby
I'd love to see the stats on this. Here are some stats I have:

School GPA MCAT Combined (10*GPA + MCAT) (Purely arbitrary on my part)

UCSF 3.75 33.6 71.1
UCLA 3.68 31.8 68.6
UCSD 3.78 32.7 70.5
Keck 3.61 32.4 68.5
UCI 3.69 32.1 69.0
UCD 3.52 31.2 66.4


Wow. I never realized how close everybody was in just MCAT and GPA. We almost have better stats than UCLA. Considering we cost a more than the other schools, there must be quite a few reasons to choose USC over some of the other UC's based on purely numerical analysis.
 

1) "the only time they really come in is when something is really really wrong, so the type of experience you get here is tons better (in most cases) than what you would see any other place. People who do residency in our ER can get a job anywhere because of the experience they have."

Direct quote from Dr. Billy Mallon, head of the ER department at County USC, said to me at the faculty dinner.

2) "Here is one thing that I can definately say is better than UCI, the life. There is so much to do here. I frequently meet people who drive up from orange county to LA to have fun."

Ahem. Hollywood, Santa Monica, Westwood, Pasadena. vs Huntington beach. Hermosa Beach.

Also, please refer to this thread . That's a ringing endorsement for the life in orange county.



3) "The school itself (USC) is actually a ton better than UCI."

This is more of an opinion. And I probably shouldn't have said a ton. But the fact of the matter is, we get almost the same stats as UCI with costing more, so there are tons of advantages that I don't need to list again for the 50th time.


By the way, for your ignorance, uci hospital is basically a orange "county" hospital near long beach. other than more frequent gunshot wounds, i cant imagine how much more a usc hospital would see.


See my next post.

It was pretty obvious to me we were giving our opinions, not statistical facts.


There is a difference. I never claimed a fact. You did. If I do claim a fact, I back it up. Saying 50% of the people who go to UC's turn down a top 20 school is just bull****.
 
As for the training at County, this article isn't directly showing that. What it does show is that at county you will have a lot more opportunities to do a lot more procedures and you have a lot more responsability than you would at a place like UCI's hospital (Which for some reason I still see located in orange, not anywhere near Long Bearch, which last I checked UCLA-Harbor was the main provider)

From Los Angeles Times, April 23 2003.

County-USC Doctors Say Delays Fatal
Sworn declarations allege instances when quicker care would have saved patients' lives.

By Tracy Weber and Charles Ornstein, Times Staff Writers

Emergency room patients regularly wait as long as four days for a bed at Los Angeles County-USC Medical Center, and some die before receiving critical medical treatment, according to sworn declarations by the hospital's own doctors.

The emergency room's interim chairman, Dr. Edward Newton, described the case of a 40-year-old woman with an arterial blockage in her lungs who was kept in the emergency room for more than 30 hours because an intensive care unit bed was not available. She suffered cardiac arrest and died.

"This type of delay in care is below the standard in the community and would not occur in any private hospital," Newton said in a sworn statement signed last week.

In another case, doctors couldn't treat a patient with shortness of breath quickly enough. "This patient died before we were able to help him. Had we had the capacity to diagnose him earlier, his life would have been saved," Newton wrote in a January statement.

The sworn statements, filed in federal court over the past month, are part of a lawsuit by legal aid groups trying to stop Los Angeles County's plan to cut 100 of the 745 beds at the county's flagship public hospital beginning in June. Also filed in court this week was a report by a nationally recognized emergency room researcher warning that more people would die needlessly if the hospital were downsized.

The St. Paul, Minn., researcher, Dr. Brent Asplin ? who visited the hospital this month and in March ? described an ER in which as many as 156 patients were crowded into 43 treatment areas, exams were conducted in the hallways, and there was "no such thing"

as patient privacy.

Although the medical staff has good intentions, "the quality of service in this environment is horrendous," Asplin wrote. "Imagine trying to maintain your dignity while using a bedpan in a hallway lined with stretchers."

In an interview Tuesday, Asplin, who has studied emergency rooms all over the nation and has published numerous journal articles on his findings, said he considers County-USC's overcrowding the worst he's seen.

Though County-USC doctors and patients have long complained about treatment delays, the court documents quantify the problem and indicate that it is getting worse.

"We often have to squeeze three patients, both men and women together, into one booth designed to hold two. The lights are never turned off, the noise level is high, there are no facilities to wash and there is no privacy," Newton wrote in his January statement.

Hospital administrators don't dispute Asplin's conclusions, but they say they have to close beds to save money.

"This is what I get up at 3 o'clock in the morning and lose sleep over," said Dr. David Altman, County-USC's chief medical officer.

"I think we've got a huge challenge ? there's no question about it. We've got to find ways to save money without reducing services."

Health department spokesman John Wallace said the cost of caring for 600,000 uninsured patients every year is an impossible burden without more state or federal help.

"If anything, we would like to be adding more health services," Wallace said. "It's a matter of not being able to afford to do it."

As it stands, noncritical patients are waiting 16 hours or more just to be treated by a doctor in County-USC's emergency room, Newton, the ER's interim chairman, said. If they need a bed upstairs, some are forced to wait a day or longer, he said.

According to the county Emergency Medical Services Agency, County-USC asked ambulances to stay away nearly 75% of the time last year because it had nowhere to place patients. That's more than three times higher than in 1999. Paramedics who nonetheless deliver patients often must sit and wait for hours to transfer the patient from their gurney to one at the hospital.

The delays have extended beyond the ER into other parts of the hospital.

Those who need immediate treatment for a fractured pelvic bone can wait up to two weeks for care, Newton said. And patients who need surgery for such injuries as repeated shoulder dislocations could wait years.

In a January statement, Dr. Kate Savage, a fourth-year orthopedic surgery resident at the hospital, said a 75-year-old woman admitted with a broken hip had to wait a week for surgery because no bed was available. She developed a blood clot from lying prone for so long and died despite the surgery, Savage said in her statement.

"She would not have died had there been a bed available to allow us to operate on her earlier."

Savage described another case, handled by a colleague, in which a 30-year-old pregnant woman with gallstones was forced to wait 10 days for surgery. She developed an infection of the gall bladder, which spread to her blood. She lived; her baby died.

In an interview Tuesday, Savage said the high volume of trauma patients ? the hospital's top priority ? causes delays for others.

"When somebody comes in with a gunshot wound, then a little old lady with a broken hip keeps getting bumped from surgery. And this keeps happening and happening," she said. "They just don't have the funds and the resources, and we're just getting cut back even more. There are going to be a lot more preventable deaths."

In January, the Los Angeles County Board of Supervisors voted to authorize the closure of the first 50 beds at County-USC, along with the closure of Rancho Los Amigos National Rehabilitation Center in Downey. The remaining 50 beds are scheduled to be cut next year.

The lawsuit seeking to block the cuts was filed last month by the Legal Aid Foundation of Los Angeles, Neighborhood Legal Services of Los Angeles County and the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California. They say the county is obligated by law to care for its poorest residents. A hearing on the matter is set for May 12.

"They can't just say, 'We'll take all comers' and then put it on the backs of the doctors, who have their license at risk because they're put in a situation where they can't provide acceptable medical care," said Elena Ackel, senior attorney with the Legal Aid Foundation.

This isn't the first time there has been a debate over the number of beds at County-USC. Between 1997 and 2000, the proposal to build a new hospital with only 600 beds created a rift between some county and state legislators. Critics of the plan warned that the hospital would be too small to meet patients' needs. The hospital, now under construction, will be completed in 2007.

Doctors at private emergency rooms in Los Angeles said even the impending cutback of 50 beds would overwhelm them.

"Our system is built on the principle that the ... county is supposed to take care of the indigent patients," said Dr. Marshall Morgan, medical director of UCLA's emergency department, which sends some of its uninsured patients to County-USC for care. "And what they're doing is sloughing those patients on to us."

Dr. Ronald Kaufman, who was chief medical officer at County-USC until 2000, wrote in a court statement that the cuts will "destroy" the hospital and the trauma system in Los Angeles County.
 
"Saying 50% of the people who go to UC's turn down a top 20 school is just bull****."

Do you have stats to back that?
 
Originally posted by profunda
"Saying 50% of the people who go to UC's turn down a top 20 school is just bull****."

Do you have stats to back that?

You've got to be kidding me??? You said it, not me.
 
So...you back your facts by quoting "head of USC" ER and editorials written by "LA journalists." Interesting...

Okay then, I can play your game. I back my previous statement by saying students from UC Davis have told me about that 50%.

Just because I used a number like "50%" doesnt necessarily mean I am trying to state statistical facts. You assumed I was stating statistical facts.

The mere usage of another's opinion to back your opinion doesnt make it factual. Quality of life is also a matter of opinion. I know many who'd hate to live in LA, pasadena, santa monica, hollywood and would rather live in Oregon. My opinion is picking usc over uci would be idiotic, according to my own experiences/preference. I'm sure "many" (another opinion/assumption here based on my own past experience) usc/UC/all med students think the same.
 
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