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Guys....Ddo you have any idea about this program?
UCSF/Fresno Surgery
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Don't let the affiliation with UCSF fool you, I have not heard great things about this program...it's basically the poor man's version of the authentic UCSF program. Overall, it straddles the mid-to-low tier as far as Cali general surg programs go. Although affiliated with UCSF, the program's "philosophy" is apparently to turn out rural/community surgeons (hence the whole Fresno thing). Of course if you want to practice rural surgery then this would fit your agenda. That being said, the UCSF name still has some weight behind it for fellowship purposes.
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Arrogant Surgeon is right - the Fresno program is nowhere near as prestigious as the program in the city (SF).
While its mission may not be to train "rural" surgeons (Fresno is NOT considered rural although it might seem so to those from the bay area), there is a fair bit of contact with a rural/farming/migrant worker population (practice your Spanish and SE Asian dialects!).
Do you have any specific queries?
While its mission may not be to train "rural" surgeons (Fresno is NOT considered rural although it might seem so to those from the bay area), there is a fair bit of contact with a rural/farming/migrant worker population (practice your Spanish and SE Asian dialects!).
Do you have any specific queries?
S
Skylizard
SomeOne, so it lacks the prestige of the big city, but it would be mistaken to call it "rural"? So, it has a certain rural flavor/component but is still city. Is it similar to PennState Hershey with the Omish in this respect?
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Loki...
Not really. The city of Fresno, California has over 400,000 people and the hospitals have a patient population/drawing area of > 1 million. So its a LOT larger than Hershey, PA and its surroundings.
Fresno is a former cow-town grown big. The major business is agricultural and the surrounding area is definitely farm/orchard/vineyard.
Heck, I wouldn't even call Hershey "rural" but I guess it all depends on your frame of reference. Fresno is definitely much more rural than San Francisco but much less so than Hershey. Talk to me about Alice Springs, Australia - now that's rural.
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I'm from an area close to Fresno. It only an hour from where I'm from. Freso lacks some of the divirsity and the glaumor of other cities it's size, but it's big. If you want to be a General Surgeon, you'll probally get all the cases you would ever want or need espically trauma. Fresno while only aroud 500,000 or so gets more then it's fair share of trauma for a several reasons:
1) It is the demarcation line between the Nortanos and the Suranos, two of the major mexican gangs of Cali and hence there is a lot of violnce that takes place over there.
2) That area and whole central valley is Meth central for processing and distrabution so you get cases form the violence that results from that.
3) You have a boat load of 2 lane undivided highways that fog up really badly. Thus as a concequnce of this you get many, many multiple vehicle mva's. It's not unusal to to get over 15pts from 1 MVA (from vans packed with full of migrant workers).
4)The violence in Fresno is getting worse for another reason, and that is that there are SE Asian gangs who are trying to establish them selves in Fresno.
All this info comes from me living in the area and from my friend who lives and works in Fresno. Hope this helps.
1) It is the demarcation line between the Nortanos and the Suranos, two of the major mexican gangs of Cali and hence there is a lot of violnce that takes place over there.
2) That area and whole central valley is Meth central for processing and distrabution so you get cases form the violence that results from that.
3) You have a boat load of 2 lane undivided highways that fog up really badly. Thus as a concequnce of this you get many, many multiple vehicle mva's. It's not unusal to to get over 15pts from 1 MVA (from vans packed with full of migrant workers).
4)The violence in Fresno is getting worse for another reason, and that is that there are SE Asian gangs who are trying to establish them selves in Fresno.
All this info comes from me living in the area and from my friend who lives and works in Fresno. Hope this helps.
S
Skylizard
Dr. Kimberli Cox:
Thank you, your reply is right-on as far as answering my question and putting things into a perspective I can understand given the earlier statement about "rural".
Thank you, your reply is right-on as far as answering my question and putting things into a perspective I can understand given the earlier statement about "rural".
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Thank you guys for this info.
I understand that Fresno never can become SF, but I am speaking about Surgery program and not about the place. I suppose it is still possible to have a good surgery residency program in not-very-prestigeous place (like Hershey's for example).
Do any of you have idea about the quality of the program (except Arrogant Surgeon, of course)???
The other thing, this may sound stupid......... Is it possible to shift from one program to another during residency??? How difficult is it? Do I lose years in this case???
Thanks
I understand that Fresno never can become SF, but I am speaking about Surgery program and not about the place. I suppose it is still possible to have a good surgery residency program in not-very-prestigeous place (like Hershey's for example).
Do any of you have idea about the quality of the program (except Arrogant Surgeon, of course)???
The other thing, this may sound stupid......... Is it possible to shift from one program to another during residency??? How difficult is it? Do I lose years in this case???
Thanks
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yes, you can switch during your residency...some programs will want you to repeat a year, depending on the reccomendation from your previous program; it's individual and program specific. the rule from the surgery rrc of the acgme is that your last two clinical years must be at the same program.
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Well, I thought we were talking about the quality of the program when we said it wasn't as prestigious as UCSF. Fact is, it does have the UCSF name but the quality is NOT nearly the same.
However, the Trauma and Critical Care faculty are well respected and I imagine you'd get a good education there but wouldn't expect it to be on par with UCSF.
It IS possible to switch programs during residency but like most things, difficult to do. The degree of difficulty depends on:
1) WHY you want to switch (ie, spouse moving would be legit, someplace nicer is generally not)
2) your standing at your first program
3) whether or not your PD will write a letter endorsing you leaving his/her program
4) whether your program of choice has a spot for you
5) your ABSITE scores (if they suck another program may be loathe to take you)
You MAY indeed lose a year or more - all depends on whether your chosen program has a spot in your year, whether you've completed certain rotations they require, etc.Hope thiis helps.
Is it a quality issue or a mission issue? Because the mission of those two programs are at opposite ends of the spectrum. UCSF is in the business of training academic surgeons. If you want to be the next Starzl go to UCSF. As someone stated earlier Fresno is more or less a training ground for surgeons that are gonna be in the trenches of the medical world. The quality of actual hands on surgical training may be better because the residents (not fellows) will be doing more complicated cases at Fresno.
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Hi,
Does anyone know anything about the program regarding facility conditions, satisfaction/dissatisfaction of residents, etc (i.e. things you'd find out in interview or elective)?
I'm thinking about returning to Fresburg for residency and will not be doing an elective for some time, so if anyone has any info, it would be greatly appreciated!
Does anyone know anything about the program regarding facility conditions, satisfaction/dissatisfaction of residents, etc (i.e. things you'd find out in interview or elective)?
I'm thinking about returning to Fresburg for residency and will not be doing an elective for some time, so if anyone has any info, it would be greatly appreciated!
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Does the same apply to the UCSF-East Bay program??
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tonem said:
this answer to the OP's original question is probably the most useful.
to the OP: no one on this board can give you a credible information vis a vis the "quality" of the gs residency in fresno. unless of course someone here has been a med student or resident at both places.
the ucsf flagship program is, in my experience, regarded as a world class gs program. in the past, a relatively high number of its graduates have become chairman, and/or leaders in academic medicine. ucsf-fresno has no such track record, and the reputation is essentially non-existant outside calif. if the program's name did not have "ucsf" before the "fresno" part, i'll bet the program would get significantly fewer applicants.
otoh, i can't make (and i don't think anyone on sdn can either) any credible assessments of operative experience/teaching at either institution. just because a surgeon is wrold-renowned, does not make him/her a better teacher in the or than an unheralded surgeon. in fact in my experience i see absolutely no correlation between a surgeon's research credentials and acumen as a teacher.
good luck
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the one thing about fresno is that the program is very small, meaning that if a resident is on sick leave or pregnancy leave or something, covering for that person can be tough...and bench research or even extensive clinical reserach is very difficult there as a result (can't take year or 2 off)...I heard that the number of faculty is small as well...heard that many of them were in a law suit recently, which really hurt the training for a while...Fresno itself has its good parts and really bad parts (closer to the main hospital)...but depending on what one seeks, it can be great (or not)...if you're not strongly academically inclined, fresno may be perfect for you...not everyone is seeking an academic program...many residents end up practicing in fresno or in the surrounding cities (rural, < 20,000 ppl). Best to go with what you want...I'm ranking it...I'm not looking for an overly academic training program...I want to be in private group practice and be happy operating...I also don't aspire to be a PD or chairman or a research-oriented academician. Oh, you can own a house in fresno on a resident's salary and invest early...
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How about chances to get a fellowship after GS at UCSF Fresno? I realize that chances are much better at academic institutions, but if I wanted to train at a community program, is this one of the 'better' community programs?
Does anyone know how successful applicants for fellowships are coming out of Fresno?
Does anyone know how successful applicants for fellowships are coming out of Fresno?
B
Blade28
I'm curious, did you rank them? Or are you asking for next year's Match? I also interviewed there, if you have more questions.
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Blade28 said:
Hi Blade,
This would be for next years match. Would you be willing to share a likes/dislikes list about the program/facilities (never mind the city-I've been there) and did the residents seem happy?
Thanks much
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Zummy said:
UCSF Fresno is not a community program; it is a university based/affiliated academic program which tends to graduate "communiyt" or general surgeons rather than academic surgeons. Therefore, most of the grads do not go on to do fellowships but check with Dr. Krista Kaups, I'm sure she would be glad to give you this information.
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I interview there and was a bit disappointed because I had expected it to be more academic...it really isn't the traditional academic program...there is little research opportunities (perhaps some retros), and after speaking to Dr. Parks, got the impression that taking time off for research isn't even an option given the small number of residents per class and the number of hospitals that need to be covered. They didn't have actual stats on overall % of residents that pursue fellowships, but they gave me an estimate of about 15-20% over the past 10 years...that's, on average, less than 1 per graduating class...most go into private practice right out of residency. But then again, if you really wanted a fellowship, that would certainly be possible as well. In the end, I ranked the program.
