UCSF v. Harvard

[alpenglow]

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Let's say that you're interested in public health, are basically piecing together an MD/MPH program from health policy, research, domestic, agriculture, and international fields...and you get into both UCSF and Harvard. You like/live in CA, have close friends, in-state tuition, and all the resources that you need to complete the degree there. Then, you get into Harvard, but don't know as much about the area or the resources. Which one do you choose?

 

[Elastase]

Let's say that you're interested in public health, are basically piecing together an MD/MPH program from health policy, research, domestic, agriculture, and international fields...and you get into both UCSF and Harvard. You like/live in CA, have close friends, in-state tuition, and all the resources that you need to complete the degree there. Then, you get into Harvard, but don't know as much about the area or the resources. Which one do you choose?

You choose UCSF! Its instate tuition, very diverse population, awesome facilities, etc. Plus you can take a year off and do your MPH at Berkeley. Don't base your decision soley on rank/reputation, take everything into consideration including your happiness!

 

[Mateodaspy]

Let's say that you're interested in public health, are basically piecing together an MD/MPH program from health policy, research, domestic, agriculture, and international fields...and you get into both UCSF and Harvard. You like/live in CA, have close friends, in-state tuition, and all the resources that you need to complete the degree there. Then, you get into Harvard, but don't know as much about the area or the resources. Which one do you choose?

as someone who struggled (perhaps not the appropriate word) with that question last year... i must say your choice probably doesn't matter all that much given your interests... if you don't mind a boatload of debt or if you've never lived out-of-state or if you want a (nearly) guaranteed spot in a competitive residency or if a stress-free grading system is a must, then go for HMS. otherwise, ucsf would also be a stellar place to get your medical education.

 

[drlalchick]

as someone who struggled (perhaps not the appropriate word) with that question last year... i must say your choice probably doesn't matter all that much given your interests... if you don't mind a boatload of debt or if you've never lived out-of-state or if you want a (nearly) guaranteed spot in a competitive residency or if a stress-free grading system is a must, then go for HMS. otherwise, ucsf would also be a stellar place to get your medical education.

So is that saying that getting into a competitive residency is harder coming from UCSF? If someone were hoping to match in California, would UCSF or Harvard better serve her purpose?

 

[Law2Doc]

So is that saying that getting into a competitive residency is harder coming from UCSF? If someone were hoping to match in California, would UCSF or Harvard better serve her purpose?

Both schools are in ranked in the top 5. The school name is not going to be a determinative factor of what residency you get -- the schools are effectively equals. Get good board scores, that's far more important in this case.
(And I'm not sure that the OP is even going to seek one of the most competitive residencies to get into public health anyhow.)

 

[Phy]

Both schools are in ranked in the top 5. The school name is not going to be a determinative factor of what residency you get -- the schools are effectively equals. Get good board scores, that's far more important in this case.
(And I'm not sure that the OP is even going to seek one of the most competitive residencies to get into public health anyhow.)

In terms of Board scores, does anyone know why HMS has such a low Step 1 average given the fact that they have the best and brightest minds in their class? do they not teach their students well? Does UCSF prepare you for the boards better?

 

[Rebs]

I was just at UCSF for my interview, and believe me their match lists were quite impressive. Whether you wanted to stay in CA after med school or go back east to places like Mass. Gen or Hopkins, almost all the people matched at top-ranked places. Harvard and UCSF are comprable and I think it comes down to where you want to live. On the other hand, trying something new in a new place may hold some credence in the decision. Either way neither could be a bad choice.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

In terms of Board scores, does anyone know why HMS has such a low Step 1 average given the fact that they have the best and brightest minds in their class? do they not teach their students well? Does UCSF prepare you for the boards better?

I would assume that HMS students know that their performance on Step 1 is less significant for them than if they were at a less prestigious school. The PBL curriculum at HMS may also be a reason for the lower score (maybe not though???) Also, Step 1 isn't necessarily the biggest factor in residency applications. HMS students tend to have great records in med school in terms of research and other meaningful things that look great to residency programs.

 

[Law2Doc]

I would assume that HMS students know that their performance on Step 1 is less significant for them than if they were at a less prestigious school. The PBL curriculum at HMS may also be a reason for the lower score (maybe not though???) Also, Step 1 isn't necessarily the biggest factor in residency applications. HMS students tend to have great records in med school in terms of research and other meaningful things that look great to residency programs.

LOL. I think you underestimate the importance of the boards and overestimate how far a good name carries you without good board scores to back it up.

 

[2009md2b]

Actually the fact that HMSers do poorly on Step 1 is largely just a myth. According to the deans, we consistently rank in the top 5 for our average score. (I'm assuming that deans talk amongst themselves since they aren't officially compared anymore.) It makes sense. Step 1 scores correlate pretty well with MCAT and SAT scores and in fact HMS doesn't have the highest MCAT average (I think that might belong to Columbia?). Anyways, for many programs, it seems that HMS students have a very large advantage for Harvard affliated hospitals. The residency programs and faculty are lined with HMS alumni. They call these people 'Preparation Her's.'

 

[45408]

I think WashU has the highest MCAT average - it was over a 37, last I looked.

 

[Einsteinemc2]

In terms of Board scores, does anyone know why HMS has such a low Step 1 average given the fact that they have the best and brightest minds in their class? do they not teach their students well? Does UCSF prepare you for the boards better?

turns out this is a myth. do a search for harvard and board scores and there is a thread that basically says that's not true.

 

[ChocolateKiss]

turns out this is a myth. do a search for harvard and board scores and there is a thread that basically says that's not true.

Are you sure it's a myth? At my Harvard interview, multiple first and second years told me that Harvard scores around the national mean on the board whereas schools like Duke, Penn, Yale, UMich, Stanford, etc score about a standard deviation above the mean.

 

[Phy]

Are you sure it's a myth? At my Harvard interview, multiple first and second years told me that Harvard scores around the national mean on the board whereas schools like Duke, Penn, Yale, UMich, Stanford, etc score about a standard deviation above the mean.

I heard the same thing about HMS at my interviews. Hrm.. this is weird that some people say one thing and others say the opposite.

Does anyone know how UCSF or JH does on the boards?

 

[big_smiles]

Stay in California. Less loans, friends and family there, and a good school to boot!
But obviously, your choice in the end.
(Not to mention: Have you been through a winter in Mass?)

 

[bangtheroo]

UCSF, don't be stoops....try and think about it objectively. step back for a sec...

 

[Rafa]

UCSF for sure. Keep the home-field advantage, and stay in a place with *good* weather. Boston, IMO, is overrated - particularly if you're not going to have the time to travel through it willy nilly. Plus, the issue of tuition goes to UCSF in this hypothetical example. Not sure which place has prettier buildings/campus scenery, but if I were in your (h) position, I'd go with UCSF, and save myself about $300 a semester in plane tickets (approximately the price of a new iPod, which can be used to help you...err...study!)

 

[Einsteinemc2]

Are you sure it's a myth? At my Harvard interview, multiple first and second years told me that Harvard scores around the national mean on the board whereas schools like Duke, Penn, Yale, UMich, Stanford, etc score about a standard deviation above the mean.

here's the thread that dispelled that myth (it was enough of one where many HMSers believed it too, but, it's just not true)

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=241062&highlight=dispelling+harvard

 

[shantster]

Boston, IMO, is overrated - particularly if you're not going to have the time to travel through it willy nilly.

I lived in Boston this summer and I thought it was an amazing city. Granted, I can't compare it to SF since I haven't been there. The only big thing about Boston is the crazy cost of living. The apartments that I saw advertised in the Cambridge area were around $1000/month for a single bedroom without utilities. It's hard to find fairly reasonable housing in that area near the school, and I wouldn't want to have a long commute every day.

 

[Rafa]

I lived in Boston this summer and I thought it was an amazing city. Granted, I can't compare it to SF since I haven't been there. The only big thing about Boston is the crazy cost of living. The apartments that I saw advertised in the Cambridge area were around $1000/month for a single bedroom without utilities. It's hard to find fairly reasonable housing in that area near the school, and I wouldn't want to have a long commute every day.

Aye, 'tis expensive. Food and rent are pricey. I'm here right now, and it's not *bad*...it's just that the city becomes just like any other if you don't have/make the time to explore it. Cambridge is plenty big enough for me. I suppose if I lived in the heart of the city I might enjoy it more, but since it's across the river, it (Boston) basically consists of a skyline, a river, the Prudential, and the Hancock to me. But again, just my experience from the past couple of years.

One thing I definitely recommend is to buy a good coat, hat, and pair of gloves for winter. The cold here can be...unpleasant :^)

 

[LJL]

I lived in Boston this summer and I thought it was an amazing city. Granted, I can't compare it to SF since I haven't been there. The only big thing about Boston is the crazy cost of living. The apartments that I saw advertised in the Cambridge area were around $1000/month for a single bedroom without utilities. It's hard to find fairly reasonable housing in that area near the school, and I wouldn't want to have a long commute every day.

Believe me, you won't do any better in San Francisco.

I pay $650 plus utilities to share a room in a 3bed/1bath apartment (near UCSF, between upper Haight and Cole Valley) right now. You can probably do a little bit better than that in the Sunset, but it won't be any cheaper than Boston.